H2O2 and other Material help Budding

[pgtekin]

Did you hear about GA3 and H2O2 can help plant/veg budding, if they are, how to do it?

 

[JackTheGrower]

Sounds like a chemical question.

H2O2 kills microrganisms yes?

 

[jojajico]

k ur in the organic soil forum so im assuming ur growing in organic soil lol. do not put H202 in ur soil it will kill all the microorganisms that make organic soil work. they are the work force millions upon million of little critters breaking down nutrients and making it so the plant can absorb them. pouring the H202 in the soil will only kill ur army off. and they are an army and army of weed growing warriors. and they are gunna infiltrate the plant and make it dank lol. ok ive got a really vivid imagination.

 

[BurnOne]

Sounds like a chemical question.

H2O2 kills microrganisms yes?

Si! Oui! Yes!

Burn1

 

[Guest]

and just for good measure; Don't add that stuff to Organics. Especially the H2O2, bad news. I wouldn't even mess with H2O2 unless it was a hydro-setup, I doubt it works very well in regular soil. Perhaps you got into the wrong forum by mistake.

J.

 

[dontlockmeup]

i've been using H2O2 in my water and i've noticed better root growth. i mix a very small amount like 2 ml per gallon. why would extra oxygen kill the micro organisms? here is a pic of my plants at three weeks flower.

everything seems o.k. to me. should i stop using the H2O2 for the rest of the cycle?

 

[Guest]

As mentioned it kills the organisms in the soil. The reason behind it is this:
2 Hydrogen atoms and 2 Oxygen atoms; The second Oxygen atom is called a free radical. Free radicals lack paired electrons and are capable of independent existance. This makes them very reactive as the search for new atoms leaves newly formed free radicals in their place. In short the last atom in oxygen begins a cycle of destruction in an attempt to ground itself! This is very bad for organic materials.

H2O2 is great for roots if used properly but only in a steryl kind of environment. Remember it's used on cuts to kill germs - and our critters are basically good germs. Otherwise it adds alot of oxygen to the rootzone but anything organic in the solutions will be consumed by the oxygen atom.

J.

 

[speedracer-x]

What about 1-2 drops of 3% H2O2 per gallon of un-bubbled water? Is that still enough to kill the good bacteria? Just thinking along the lines of the bio-buckets that use the chlorine from the tap water to kill the bad bacteria, since there is such a small amount of chlorine, it is used up/not enough to kill the good bacteria.

Before going to organics, I would use 1-2 drops of 35% H2O2 per gallon of water in soil grows and the plants loved it.

 

[BurnOne]

Bubbling your water or tea will add plenty enough oxygen. Remember that in organics we are trying to copy God, not chemists.
Burn1

 

[speedracer-x]

Bubbling your water or tea will add plenty enough oxygen. Remember that in organics we are trying to copy God, not chemists.
Burn1

I understand what you are saying. But for those of us without a bubbling machine, how much 3% H2O2 per gallon would be needed to simulate the dissolved oxygen levels of bubbling your water for 24 hours? While my wife loves and supports me using organics, she would kill me if I told her that I needed to keep a bucket around for bubbling water...she loves the end product but does not want to see or hear anything about it(hopefully you can understand my perdicament).

 

[Guest]

she loves the end product but does not want to see or hear anything about it(hopefully you can understand my perdicament).

you're not alone.

 

[Wacky Tobacky]

I understand what you are saying. But for those of us without a bubbling machine, how much 3% H2O2 per gallon would be needed to simulate the dissolved oxygen levels of bubbling your water for 24 hours? While my wife loves and supports me using organics, she would kill me if I told her that I needed to keep a bucket around for bubbling water...she loves the end product but does not want to see or hear anything about it(hopefully you can understand my perdicament).

you can get one at the pet store for like 15$ to bubble your water. why does she care so much about a bubbling bucket?..... if she loves the End Product so much maybe she shouldn't bitch about you growing it and HOW you grow it. what is the point in growing in organic soil if your going to use h2o2 might as well use chem ferts or go hydro and get bigger yields.

 

[dontlockmeup]

got ya. i'm no longer using the h2o2. i might use it when plants are young and in small cups just to get the roots goin, but once they are in gallon pots i'll lay off and let things go the natural way. i'm gonna start bubbling my water instead.

should i bubble my water with my nutes already mixed or mix right before watering?

 

[speedracer-x]

you can get one at the pet store for like 15$ to bubble your water. why does she care so much about a bubbling bucket?..... if she loves the End Product so much maybe she shouldn't bitch about you growing it and HOW you grow it. what is the point in growing in organic soil if your going to use h2o2 might as well use chem ferts or go hydro and get bigger yields.

Money is not the issue, it's the space and sound and the fact that we have a small home. I have a veg and flower cab that doesn't have space for a bubbling bucket of water (we all know how valueable space is in our grow cabs if we don't have grow rooms). She DOES NOT want to see or hear anything going on...she is sooo paranoid it isn't funny (father is a member of the cloth and mother pretty much is too, so her upbringing was very sheltered).

You should be glad you weren't at my home for the aero cloner battle that I lost. I love my medicine, but I love my wife more than my medicine and I would rather make sure she is happy and feels secure in what I am doing, this is just how it has to be at my house...apologies.

Please understand that if I could be a hard line organic gardener I would, but because of reasons that I can't control, I simply cannot toe the line as strictly as others. Basically I either grow to her standards (not seeing or hearing or smelling anything at any time anywhere in the home) or I don't grow at all.

So, with understanding that I cannot simply just go all out organic, can someone compromise their values (organic vs. chem.) and let me know how much 3% h2o2 can be mixed per gallon of water as to be an equivalent to bubbling water for a day?

 

[dontlockmeup]

speedracer-x

i think the guys are trying to say that since you can't bubble your water it's better to use regular water than to add h2o2. it has to do with the way the extra oxygen atom is bonded to the molecule and the fact that it has a negative charge. i sort of get what they are saying but don't understand enough about chemistry to put it in plain english. plant biology(actually anything) is all about chemical reactions. the h2o2 is creating a chemical reaction with living organisms in your soil. the chemical reaction kills these organisms. that's not good because these living organisms cause other chemical reactions in your soil that are much more benefincial to your plants than a little extra oxygen on the roots.

i had been using the h2o2 not knowing what i was doing to my soil. it probably explains why my plants yellow too early and i'm sure my yeild has been effected by it. it's not like i saw a yeild increase when i started using it. i just saw lots of nice fat white roots while the plants were still young.



if you are growning in a cab set up how much water could you possibly need to have at one watering? 5 gallons. you can fit a five gallon jug under your sink or something. don't you ussually let your water sit at room temp for a while? if not and you are on city water you should start. you need to let that chlorine evaporate.

I'm sure there are guys here that can give you a better scientific explanation as to what the h2o2 is doing to your soil. i'm done using it though. My yeild was never increased in a year of use. if anything my plants yellowed sooner than i wanted. i started using it because the hydro store putz recommended it. in my experience the hydro store guys are wannabe's that don't really know shit. if they did, they would be growers and not working for $7 an hour at a hydro store. they can point you in a general direction, but don't take what they say as "the word". you'll find a lot more useful info from guys here. it didn't take much for me to quit using h2o2.

can anyone tell me if my soil will bounce back now that i have stopped using the h2o2? today will be my first watering with bubbled water. i've got fox farm's guano some bs molasses and liquid bone meal that has been bubbling for about 30 hours. i'm assuming the h2o2 gets absorbed by the plant or evaporates as the soil dries. it doesn't leave a residue when i use it to clean my grow space so i'm hoping nothing will be left behind in the soil.

 

[speedracer-x]

Dontlockmeup, thanks for the reply. Let me explain my reasoning on why I think a bit of h2o2 can be used.

1) Just like you said "plant biology(actually anything) is all about chemical reactions."

2) Analogy: If we had nutes NPK of 100:100:100, we would dilute the NPK to what we needed (basically what the plant would find acceptable).

So why can we not dilute the free radical oxygen atoms (found in h2o2, or bubbled water) floating around in the h2o2 water to the same measurements/levels as bubbled water. On a molecular level they should be the same if the disolved oxygen content is the same because (with my humble understanding) all h2o2 is is water with the extra oxygen atom fixed to it that gets released/diluted when mixed with more water. The chemical equation to find out how much h2o2 you need is probably in moles and I haven't done those equations in over 10 years.

I also heard that letting h2o2 water (of course depending on the amount of h2o2) sit at room temperature for about 3 days will degrade the h2o2 and you will basically have the same water you started with 3 days earlier.

If I understand you correctly, you are trying to explain that it is better to just forego the h2o2 alltogether. But I have to state that my idea is based off of the notion of using a bit of chlorine from tap water in bio-buckets to kill the bad bacteria (they only use a little bit of tap water so that all the chlorine is used up on the bad bacteria) and what I stated above about the dilution of free radical oxygen atoms so I would only have enough free radical oxygen atoms in the water to attack the bad bacteria (which is what the oxygen and chlorine attack first due to the smaller simpler structure of these organisms). I guess I am missing how aerated water that kills bad bacteria is different than diluted h2o2 water with the same disolved oxygen content (like 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other).

No matter how good my side of the arguments are with the Mrs., the one point she has me on that I cannot get around is that what we are doing is illegal and until that changes in my state, I have to play by her rules.

I know this sounds like I am pushing h2o2, I am not. I just want to be able to have the effects of bubbled water without bubbling water and I'm sure there are others out there that would like the same. Please correct me if any part of this post that you know of is incorrect.

 

[dontlockmeup]

speedracer-x

i wasn't trying to offend you earlier. i'm sorry if I did I was just kidding you. I understand that i am lucky to have a wife that fully supports my hobbies.

i'm not an expert in chemistry and i am not saying in any means that anything in your post is wrong, but from what i was understanding h2o2 and the water with oxygen added by bubbling are two different chemical make ups. the h2o2 is exactly that. 2 hydrogen atoms and 2 oxygen atoms fused to form a single molecule. When H2O2 is mixed with your water it becomes H2O with H2O2. now i don't believe by bubbling the water, you are changing the molecules in any way. I think that by bubbling your water you are suspending single oxygen atoms in your water. i think that makes it H2O with O suspended in it. I think that the O that is added from bubbling is a stable atom (has all of it's elctrons and has a nuetral charge) and does not attach itself to other molecules. I'm not sure but I think what the guys were trying to say earlier was that the extra O in H2O2 has been changed(lost an electron) in order to make H2O2. This extra oxygen atom can move freely from one atom to the next and attach itself to other molecules, not just H2O, and change there chemistry in doing so. just my guess.

anyone else have any input?

 

[speedracer-x]

speedracer-x

i wasn't trying to offend you earlier. i'm sorry if I did I was just kidding you. I understand that i am lucky to have a wife that fully supports my hobbies.

i'm not an expert in chemistry and i am not saying in any means that anything in your post is wrong, but from what i was understanding h2o2 and the water with oxygen added by bubbling are two different chemical make ups. the h2o2 is exactly that. 2 hydrogen atoms and 2 oxygen atoms fused to form a single molecule. When H2O2 is mixed with your water it becomes H2O with H2O2. now i don't believe by bubbling the water, you are changing the molecules in any way. I think that by bubbling your water you are suspending single oxygen atoms in your water. i think that makes it H2O with O suspended in it. I think that the O that is added from bubbling is a stable atom (has all of it's elctrons and has a nuetral charge) and does not attach itself to other molecules. I'm not sure but I think what the guys were trying to say earlier was that the extra O in H2O2 has been changed(lost an electron) in order to make H2O2. This extra oxygen atom can move freely from one atom to the next and attach itself to other molecules, not just H2O, and change there chemistry in doing so. just my guess.

anyone else have any input?

No offense taken, I just didn't want to step on any toes either. I think we are both understanding that this is a debate of science, we are adults and not attacking each other.

Back to the discussion, again while I am not a chemist, I was looking some of this stuff up and found a simple chemical equation that I do remember from chemistry class. Remember balancing a chemical equation, this one website had it perfectly explained...I will try:

2(h2o2) --> 2(h2o) o2 This means 2 h2o2 molecules turn into 2 h2o and 1 o2

h2o2 when mixed with water becomes h2o with the extra oxygen atom EITHER becoming a free radical (o1) or becoming oxygen (o2). Since we know that o2 is stable and o1 is not, it would lead me to believe that if we mixed h2o2 in water and let it sit for a bit, the o1's would collect and form o2 because they have nothing else to attack/attach themselves to.

About your comment on bubbling water. SURFACE AREA. The way I see it and the way it was explained to me is that by bubbling water you are exposing air to the water, this is the reason that you have a drop of about at least a foot and then a splash plate in the bio-buckets from what I've read. As the water get exposed to air, it picks up oxygen. I looked at so many websites and the bubbling of water, the drop to the return in bio-buckets, and rain water all deal with the surface area of the water being exposed to air, that simple, the water will pick up the oxygen as the water moves. One of these websites stated that rainwater could be made with a weak mix of h2o2 and h2o, I THINK that it is about 0.05% h2o2, cut I do remember seeing mention to making your own rainwater with h2o2...which again leads me to believe we can recreate the levels of dissolved oxygen with h2o2 at low levels and still have the good bacteria thrive while killing the bad bacteria.

EDIT: When I referred to rainwater, I was referring to tests taken right after the rain had fallen. So the water droplet fell through 1000's of ft of AIR before being tested. Also, once o1 becomes o2, it is stable.

Yes, anyone else have any input...

 

[Guest]

You can also use a pump, it doesn't make any noise so long as it's positioned right. It doesn't give quite as good results but it's better than nothing. It's what I use, I just happen to have a pump.

J.

 

[Guest]

I guess I am missing how aerated water that kills bad bacteria is different than diluted h2o2 water with the same disolved oxygen content (like 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other).

The difference is that "aerated water" has oxygen in a different form than when H2O2 is introduced.

H2O2 kills bacteria when the oxygen rips them apart. Oxygen is a very negative atom.

Aerated water is water with oxygen (in the safer form, not that of H2O2). When your water has "safe" oxygen in it, aerobic bacteria thrive (generally the "good" bacteria that we want"

When water is depleted of oxygen, anaerobic bacteria (bad bacteria) thrive.

Aerated, or oxygenated water doesn't "kill" anaerobic bacteria necessarily...it just makes an inhospitable environment for the anaerobic bacteria.

H2O2 on the other hand will actually kill both aerobic/anaerobic microorganisms because of the state the oxygen pops off as.