H202 dilution ratio?

[bilbobonger]

I've been battling some kind of brown algae in my res. Just bought an RO filter hoping that it would take care of this issue along with some others, but after one flood (recirculating flood and drain) my res water (as before) is cloudy and stinks with brown slime already appearing on the black tubing, pump, air stone etc. Not to mention that from one flood, my pH shot up from about 5.9 to 6.9.

My current res mix consists of GH Maxigro, Diamond Nectar and a little bit of H&G Root Excelorator (all well under the recommended dosage), though I plan on leaving the Root Excelorator out of the mix on the next fill just to cut down on possible contributing factors (also read some conflicting information on using it in conjunction with the air-stone). Just wanna keep things as simple as possible until I get the swing of things. Preferably without spending anymore cash that I don't have on overpriced, bullshit products from my local grow shop.

I keep coming across threads that mention h202 as a cure for brown algae (if this is in fact what I'm working with). Can someone please tell me, or direct me to a link where I can get a straight forward dilution ratio for h202?

FWIW, the water temp is not an issue, and there's very little light leakage into the res. Certainly not enough to cause algae to build up this fast. Got a buddy that doesn't even have a lid on his res, and has never had anything like this, so I don't think light is the issue here either.

Thanks for all the help everyone. This site's been great. Though I think I'm gonna lose my shit if I have to pull everything outa there and clean it again (very tight space, hard to get around). Went with hydro for the proposed ease of use LOL.

 

[bilbobonger]

Should I just go ahead and toss this current res mix, clean everything and start over with the addition of h202, or can I just dump some in with the current mix and expect it to clean things up? I've previously been cleaning with only water and a sponge. Should I be using a bleach dilution, or something similar? If so, how much bleach to water?

Thanks

 

[Scrogerman]

Flush system through, apply H2o2 to your Nutes only(a+b), stay away from anything organic as H2o2 will just break it down. I use a 17.5% strength solution at 3-5mls per 10 litres of water, do the math! i find the stuff i use(Oxy+) is great stuff & gives an added overall growth boost i find.
H2O2 Dissipates out of solution every 24 hours so further applications can be done after then.
I like to use a 3 days on 2 off sort of strategy, or if i know i have a bacterial issue & ph is diving down, i will use the stuff 24/7 for a week to 10 days just to make sure, lol. Just dont over do it.
Ionic is a great single part nute line i find works really well with H2o2.

 

[Scrogerman]

On the Brown Algae issue, Brown Algae does'nt need light to bloom, like other common algae's. But its a better idea to light proof your root Res either way. Put some Pics up for us & explain your system, nutes, everything & im sure more people will comment buddy!

If you have got a brown Algae bloom it can be a real bitch to rid yourself of it. Ive seen H2o2 get rid of a 'BA Bloom, Oxy + used at 5mls per 10 litres as per instructions. If that does fail i know or hear that Pysan20 will most certainly sterilise your res, but it gets frothy ~& can be a bitch to flush out i believe, a little harsh but will fix it if the Oxy+ doesnt.

I think your having probs because of the additives your trying to use, keep it simple with the A+B nutes & the Oxy+(or h2o2) to sterilise & go from there. Dont try using anything else untill your res get sorted out man, shouldnt take long with the h2o2, just go easy with it. That apply's with any system really! Good Luck Mate!

For Cleaning, Oxy+ or H2o2 can be used as a bleach(it is hydrogen peroxide after all), at a higher dose than the one used for your plants. i cant remember off the top of my head but its something like 3-5 mls per litre, something like that, but i could have that wrong, id have to check. I also like the fact it is a liquid oxygen, boosting overall DO(dissolved oxygen), & helps in maximising nutrient uptake, thats a bonus. I notice Stem's get really thick when using it too.

 

[Kcar]

I believe the Diamond Nectar could be the culprit.

 

[Scrogerman]

I notice Stem's get really thick when using it too.



whats the DN, A Fulvic blend? some nasty pathogen feeding hapily away. They wont like the H2o2 very much. bye bye! Its usually Hygrozyme i hear on this one.

 

[BlueberryLovr]

I battled the same problem (+ the inevitable bacteria) and using h2o2 never really seemed to help. It just opened the door to more problems in hydro. h2o2 can kill both both good and bad microorganisms, and when you start killing the benign micros, the "baddies" will then have free reign w/o any competition from them.

 

[Scrogerman]

LOL, a good few points to be using it then. Ive found H2o2 to be effective aginst Brown Algae in the early stages of a bloom, before it really gets a hold & makes a slimey mess. Using Oxy+ or H2o2 gives you a clean slate to start over, he already has a major fungle/bacterial problem & either H2o2 will shift it or use Physan20 & nuke your res, imo H2o2 nukes the res enough on its own & should clear up his problem as long as the bloom is not too advanced, then like i said the Physan20, again killing all Bacteria/spores & anything else in its path leaving you a blank canvess to do with what you wish, innoculate with beneficial's foe example, etc etc. G'Luck!

It has to be sterilised you see, or its gonna get worse, it wont go away unless he sterilises.

 

[cannagirl]

We just got over a case of brown algae and honestly the H2O2 only made it worse because it doesnt kill the algae but kills all the beneficials that will eat the aglae and keep it in check. The only thing that will kill the algae is bleach or any of its cousins like chloramine, which is in Dutchmaster Zone, or you can use physan to kill it, but the physan will kill your plants. If you want to run sterile you can add 10ml of bleach per gallon and it wont effect your plants. You will have to keep adding the bleach about once every two weeks because it evaporates and leaves your res open to infection.

The way we battled it, was first we got a UV water filter to sterilize the water and then we load our RDWC systems with a ton of beneficial bacteria and that is what made the most difference. The benies basically used the brown algae as food, now we have pearly white roots that are taking up almost the entire 5 gal bucket. We used a few different brands of benies, including Sub-B and M from GH, we also used House and Garden's root excellerator as well as adding aquashield made by Botanicare.


ETA: also make sure you have completely blacked out your res, any light leaks will increase the algae bloom, even though brown algae doesnt need light to thrive, it will make it increase if there is light present. Also BA can live with extremely low water temps, they wont reproduce as fast but they will survive and wait for the right time to explode again, if you dont completely get rid of it.

 

[BlueberryLovr]

...the H2O2 only made it worse because it doesnt kill the algae but kills all the beneficials...

...load our RDWC systems with a ton of beneficial bacteria and that is what made the most difference. The benies basically used the brown algae as food, now we have pearly white roots that are taking up almost the entire 5 gal bucket. We used a few different brands of benies, including Sub-B and M from GH, we also used House and Garden's root excellerator as well as adding aquashield made by Botanicare.

Yup. I do like scroger's idea of starting with a blank slate and dumping in a crapload of beneficials. That would have been my solution as well, but I only had 1 more week till harvest. Just toughed it out.

 

[bilbobonger]

Flush system through, apply H2o2 to your Nutes only(a+b), stay away from anything organic as H2o2 will just break it down. I use a 17.5% strength solution at 3-5mls per 10 litres of water, do the math! i find the stuff i use(Oxy+) is great stuff & gives an added overall growth boost i find.
H2O2 Dissipates out of solution every 24 hours so further applications can be done after then.
I like to use a 3 days on 2 off sort of strategy, or if i know i have a bacterial issue & ph is diving down, i will use the stuff 24/7 for a week to 10 days just to make sure, lol. Just dont over do it.
Ionic is a great single part nute line i find works really well with H2o2.

On the Brown Algae issue, Brown Algae does'nt need light to bloom, like other common algae's. But its a better idea to light proof your root Res either way. Put some Pics up for us & explain your system, nutes, everything & im sure more people will comment buddy!

If you have got a brown Algae bloom it can be a real bitch to rid yourself of it. Ive seen H2o2 get rid of a 'BA Bloom, Oxy + used at 5mls per 10 litres as per instructions. If that does fail i know or hear that Pysan20 will most certainly sterilise your res, but it gets frothy ~& can be a bitch to flush out i believe, a little harsh but will fix it if the Oxy+ doesnt.

I think your having probs because of the additives your trying to use, keep it simple with the A+B nutes & the Oxy+(or h2o2) to sterilise & go from there. Dont try using anything else untill your res get sorted out man, shouldnt take long with the h2o2, just go easy with it. That apply's with any system really! Good Luck Mate!

For Cleaning, Oxy+ or H2o2 can be used as a bleach(it is hydrogen peroxide after all), at a higher dose than the one used for your plants. i cant remember off the top of my head but its something like 3-5 mls per litre, something like that, but i could have that wrong, id have to check. I also like the fact it is a liquid oxygen, boosting overall DO(dissolved oxygen), & helps in maximising nutrient uptake, thats a bonus. I notice Stem's get really thick when using it too.

whats the DN, A Fulvic blend? some nasty pathogen feeding hapily away. They wont like the H2o2 very much. bye bye! Its usually Hygrozyme i hear on this one.

Scrogerman-
Thanks for the response. I was just reading through one of your posts on another thread. Called around my local shops and couldn't find any Oxy+ but found something similar called Mad High Oxy I think it was. Was planning on pickin up a bottle of that and giving it a go. You mentioned above that bacterial issues cause you pH to "dive." Mine's always rising. Is that normal?

I'd post some pics but my camera took a shit. Pretty straight forward setup. Small veg closet w/white Botanicare tray and res w/a small pump and airstone.

Ok, went buy the shop, picked up something called "Oxygen Bloom Advanced Floriculture" (50% hydrogen peroxide). Mad High stuff was sold out apparently. Gonna clean everything out again and throw some of this in the mix (says 2ml/10l every 2-3 days) Do I still add it in every 2-3 days considering that I'm recirculating my nutes? If this doesn't work, I'll give the Physan20 a go. Think I've got it pretty bad in there for it to build up that quick.

Saw the Ionic stuff there at the store, however I'd like to use what I have (if possible) before buying anything new. Got a whole pile of different products that I've accumulated over the last year and half or so. I've got two big jugs of House and Garden Coca A&B and AquaFlakes A&B (though it seems strange that they use the same A&B for both veg and bloom) also have the GH MaxiGro (granulated stuff) that I've got in there right now (which is strictly for veg from what I understand) Plus a whole shitpile of additives and what not that I plan on leaving out of the mix for the time being. Any suggestions out of what I have? Is it ok to use bleach to clean the res, rather than the h202 (stuff was>$40/litre)?

I'm not sure what the Diamond Nectar's for. This is my friend's veg recipe. I've been having so many problems, and he's been having great results, so I figured I'd give his formula a go, though I seem to be having the same problems regardless of nutrients. Been having what looks like (K) lockout, water test came back with high levels of calcium. I figured the (Ca) was the culprit, so I bought the RO, though now I'm starting to wonder if it was the brown funk all along.

Thanks for all the info.

 

[bilbobonger]

I battled the same problem (+ the inevitable bacteria) and using h2o2 never really seemed to help. It just opened the door to more problems in hydro. h2o2 can kill both both good and bad microorganisms, and when you start killing the benign micros, the "baddies" will then have free reign w/o any competition from them.

Thanks for the post-
Were you doing hydro organically? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything already dead in synthetic nutrients? I always grew outside organically (guano etc) on a small scale with great results. Though I've had so many problems indoors so far I'm going against my better judgment and using synthetic nutes just to keep things simple, mainly because it's such a tight space and it's difficult to clean everything. I've really gunked up everything with organics before. I know it can be done, but I'm a nube. I'd like to at least make the money back that I put into this thing before I experiment anymore.

 

[bilbobonger]

We just got over a case of brown algae and honestly the H2O2 only made it worse because it doesnt kill the algae but kills all the beneficials that will eat the aglae and keep it in check. The only thing that will kill the algae is bleach or any of its cousins like chloramine, which is in Dutchmaster Zone, or you can use physan to kill it, but the physan will kill your plants. If you want to run sterile you can add 10ml of bleach per gallon and it wont effect your plants. You will have to keep adding the bleach about once every two weeks because it evaporates and leaves your res open to infection.

The way we battled it, was first we got a UV water filter to sterilize the water and then we load our RDWC systems with a ton of beneficial bacteria and that is what made the most difference. The benies basically used the brown algae as food, now we have pearly white roots that are taking up almost the entire 5 gal bucket. We used a few different brands of benies, including Sub-B and M from GH, we also used House and Garden's root excellerator as well as adding aquashield made by Botanicare.


ETA: also make sure you have completely blacked out your res, any light leaks will increase the algae bloom, even though brown algae doesnt need light to thrive, it will make it increase if there is light present. Also BA can live with extremely low water temps, they wont reproduce as fast but they will survive and wait for the right time to explode again, if you dont completely get rid of it.

Thanks for the response Cannagirl-
h202 made it worse? If it clouds up again with the h202 I'll give one of the others a go. Thanks for the info. I still have a very limited understanding of what all these products are for (beneficial bacteria etc.)

 

[bilbobonger]

whats the DN, A Fulvic blend? some nasty pathogen feeding hapily away. They wont like the H2o2 very much. bye bye! Its usually Hygrozyme i hear on this one.

Not sure whatchya mean here in reference to the Hygrozyme. Should I be using this? One of the shops recommended it for the algae. I've got Algyzyme I think it's called from House and Garden. FWIU, it's pretty much the same stuff.

 

[bilbobonger]

Here's my thread from my last run: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=156556&page=2
I think I was smoked out and spinning my wheels for the most part, but I've got some pics in there of my plants before they ended up in my woodstove. Does this look like something that could've been caused by the algae?

 

[bilbobonger]

My bad. The plants from the pics did finish, but the yield was pretty weak. It was the Romulan from the next run that ended up in the woodstove.

 

[Scrogerman]

Scrogerman-
Thanks for the response. I was just reading through one of your posts on another thread. Called around my local shops and couldn't find any Oxy+ but found something similar called Mad High Oxy I think it was. Was planning on pickin up a bottle of that and giving it a go. You mentioned above that bacterial issues cause you pH to "dive." Mine's always rising. Is that normal?

I'd post some pics but my camera took a shit. Pretty straight forward setup. Small veg closet w/white Botanicare tray and res w/a small pump and airstone.

Ok, went buy the shop, picked up something called "Oxygen Bloom Advanced Floriculture" (50% hydrogen peroxide). Mad High stuff was sold out apparently. Gonna clean everything out again and throw some of this in the mix (says 2ml/10l every 2-3 days) Do I still add it in every 2-3 days considering that I'm recirculating my nutes? If this doesn't work, I'll give the Physan20 a go. Think I've got it pretty bad in there for it to build up that quick.

Saw the Ionic stuff there at the store, however I'd like to use what I have (if possible) before buying anything new. Got a whole pile of different products that I've accumulated over the last year and half or so. I've got two big jugs of House and Garden Coca A&B and AquaFlakes A&B (though it seems strange that they use the same A&B for both veg and bloom) also have the GH MaxiGro (granulated stuff) that I've got in there right now (which is strictly for veg from what I understand) Plus a whole shitpile of additives and what not that I plan on leaving out of the mix for the time being. Any suggestions out of what I have? Is it ok to use bleach to clean the res, rather than the h202 (stuff was>$40/litre)?

I'm not sure what the Diamond Nectar's for. This is my friend's veg recipe. I've been having so many problems, and he's been having great results, so I figured I'd give his formula a go, though I seem to be having the same problems regardless of nutrients. Been having what looks like (K) lockout, water test came back with high levels of calcium. I figured the (Ca) was the culprit, so I bought the RO, though now I'm starting to wonder if it was the brown funk all along.

Thanks for all the info.

Dont believe everything you read bro, H2o2 will fix the problem but it does depend on How advanced the bloom is like i said, the worst thing you could do is add bene's at this stage, the BA Bloom will explode if you do this i imagine, although i could be wrong, that is an educated guess after playing about with hygrozyme. Hygro needs a sterile enviroment before its added to a res, or well innoculated with bene's before use. Ive realised that a quick sterilisation with Oxy+(H2o2), & then an innoculation with bene's, enables the use of Hygro. But thats all another story.
Where roots reside dont go using commercial/domestic bleach, use the H2o2 at the recommended dose.(well, i would.)
The last time we had a bloom, because of using Hygro, we got rid of it with H2o2, 1 week/10 days & 2 tanks changes later, problem solved.
Physan20 will nuke the Res, thats why i advised the Oxy+ first, it may just fix the problem for you man. If you get a shitty Res, clean it out/do a Change, keep doing it if you have to, dont leave all the shit in there. If you have slimey roots, make a h2o2 solution at MY recommended dose rate, yours is very strong & excessive imo, prolly why it says only use every 3 days or so. like mines 17.5% & i use it at 3-5mls per 10 litres like i said. We handled the roots & spray cleaned them & rinsed out as much of the slime as was visible. It wasnt pretty & many clumps of roots were lost. but after we sprayed (with h2o2 & water) & cleaned all the root of slime(pysically & completely). Then flushed out res ~& cleaned as much down as we could. Then Res Change & application of H2o2 & Nutes only.
I think the trick is to actually get at your roots with your fingers & spray ~& clean all the slime off or as much as you can & keep doing it if you have to, leaving the h2o2 nute solution to do the rest. It may take 2 or 3 res changes & your gonna lose alot of slimey roots but it will work believe me. if not the Physan20 will definately nuke it, but like i said that would be a last resort for me. work at thopse roots man, spray clean with water & H2o2 solution & your fingers, pysically rubbing and spraying but very gently & keep everything clean & you should be good to go. Thats how we got rid last time.
Hope this helps, bit early for me lol! Good luck man!

Id apply my recommended dose every 24 hours exactly, as H2o2 dissipates out of solution after 24 hours, the only reason they are saying 2-3 days is the strength of it i think. My bottle says apply every day. I think you need to apply daily if you want to beat this thing. Its gonna be a slog but shouldnt take you more than 2 res changes & a load of root cleaning etc. Any Q's Pm me or ask here. G'Luck!

 

[Greenmopho]

Dont believe everything you read bro, H2o2 will fix the problem but it does depend on How advanced the bloom is like i said, the worst thing you could do is add bene's at this stage, the BA Bloom will explode if you do this i imagine, although i could be wrong, that is an educated guess after playing about with hygrozyme. Hygro needs a sterile enviroment before its added to a res, or well innoculated with bene's before use. Ive realised that a quick sterilisation with Oxy+(H2o2), & then an innoculation with bene's, enables the use of Hygro. But thats all another story.
Where roots reside dont go using commercial/domestic bleach, use the H2o2 at the recommended dose.(well, i would.)
The last time we had a bloom, because of using Hygro, we got rid of it with H2o2, 1 week/10 days & 2 tanks changes later, problem solved.
Physan20 will nuke the Res, thats why i advised the Oxy+ first, it may just fix the problem for you man. If you get a shitty Res, clean it out/do a Change, keep doing it if you have to, dont leave all the shit in there. If you have slimey roots, make a h2o2 solution at MY recommended dose rate, yours is very strong & excessive imo, prolly why it says only use every 3 days or so. like mines 17.5% & i use it at 3-5mls per 10 litres like i said. We handled the roots & spray cleaned them & rinsed out as much of the slime as was visible. It wasnt pretty & many clumps of roots were lost. but after we sprayed (with h2o2 & water) & cleaned all the root of slime(pysically & completely). Then flushed out res ~& cleaned as much down as we could. Then Res Change & application of H2o2 & Nutes only.
I think the trick is to actually get at your roots with your fingers & spray ~& clean all the slime off or as much as you can & keep doing it if you have to, leaving the h2o2 nute solution to do the rest. It may take 2 or 3 res changes & your gonna lose alot of slimey roots but it will work believe me. if not the Physan20 will definately nuke it, but like i said that would be a last resort for me. work at thopse roots man, spray clean with water & H2o2 solution & your fingers, pysically rubbing and spraying but very gently & keep everything clean & you should be good to go. Thats how we got rid last time.
Hope this helps, bit early for me lol! Good luck man!

Id apply my recommended dose every 24 hours exactly, as H2o2 dissipates out of solution after 24 hours, the only reason they are saying 2-3 days is the strength of it i think. My bottle says apply every day. I think you need to apply daily if you want to beat this thing. Its gonna be a slog but shouldnt take you more than 2 res changes & a load of root cleaning etc. Any Q's Pm me or ask here. G'Luck!

I agree, you have to have a sterilization, and then add back beneficials. I wouldn't even bother with the hygrozyme in DWC.

The Beneficials will actually consume the algae. We used a combination of GH Sub-M, Sub-B, Botanicare Aquashield, and H&G Root Excellorator. Now we have nice white roots, although you can see some of the algae on the top of the side of the net pot:

 

[Scrogerman]

Yeah me niether, ive been playing with the idea again lately though(Hygrozyme). Like i said ive found out that you need to have either a sterile enviroment before use or a Res teaming with Beneficials, i believe the hygro can be very very effective at protecting roots once you get it worked out, although its an expensive addy to use. Interesting that you used bene's to rid yourself of a bloom, i think its playing with fire, but cool, its all great feedback on the issues at hand!

 

[Greenmopho]

Interesting that you used bene's to rid yourself of a bloom, i think its playing with fire, but cool, its all great feedback on the issues at hand!

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire...

"Sterile" is just a human concept, it doesn't exist in nature. Better to have the microorganisms fighting on your side, consuming the algae!