Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[rives]

Hello Rives! Thanks! WOW! This is brilliant!

I have photographs of the walls before the sheet rock was put on this house. I made notes of where all the wires were, and how they ran the circuits. Although I hadnt come up with the brilliant way to check them that you did, I knew enough that the cords had to be on different circuits.

I know enough about power to know that I had to have circuits with little to now power being drawn currently. I have two circuits in the house that literally have nothing on them, as I am not using the rooms.

I put cords in those bedrooms, snaking them through the house..and the lights still do their "fade out" thing.

Its almost as if the house is wired correctly on one side, but not the other. Yet, I know that cant be right either.


I started out with one dual hose AC, four wall fans, one six inch air scrubber, and one 1000 watt light. So far, so good.

But something happened... the plants didnt know I was under the impression these plants didnt get any higher than 18 inches, and that all strains were the same. I was told "try lots of strains, see what you like." So I popped 7 strains, 13 seeds total. At the time, it seemed like not enough... boy.. was I wrong.

Its like "Little shop of horrors!" Feed Me, Seymour!

I was told to put them in bigger containers, so they are all in 5 gallon airpots. So suddenly the 1,000 watt light is not enough.

I had a 600 watt and a 400 watt gavita bulb and ballast sets. It took three nights of plugging and unplugging before I found which way I could run the lights and get all three lights working. I got it done. Got three nights of sleep, then my buddy wants the ballast for the 600 watt back, and my only option is to do two 1,000 watt bulbs, because thats the other ballast I had.

Now.. I put in the new ballast and the 1,000 watt light

both ballasts went dim, even though they were on 15 amp circuits all by themselves. One would turn off.. then wait a while,, then turn on, then the other would do it, sometimes both will do it.

Thats when I started this insanity of trying to figure out what plugs can handle the lamp. Once I plugged in the second 1,000 lamp, nothing has worked right.

I unplugged one lamp, and the other one started fading in and out and turning off. I dont know what to do. I want to call in a real electrician, but feel I have to rip out my grow to do it. Im scared. I am scared there is a serious problem in the wiring and dont know what to do, let alone know how to get light.

Thanks Rives

You need to verify that the circuits are actually run the way that you think – it is very common for different rooms to share the same circuits, so you may be using the same circuit even though you are using different rooms to get the power.

If the receptacles actually are on separate circuits and there is no other load on them, then you have a wiring problem. It would be very rare for an individual receptacle to be fed with it’s own circuit, so the problem may be upstream at a receptacle that is unused. The spring-clip style receptacles that you just push the wires into the holes in the back are famous for causing problems; you should always use receptacles that utilize screw-clamp connections. If this is your problem, you may be able to put your hand on the problematic receptacle and feel heat if the light has been running for a while.

A loose neutral connection can cause all kinds of strange problems, and can be a bitch to find. Check the connections at the backs of the receptacles, at the breakers, and at the neutral buss in the load center. Once you identify which breakers feed your circuits, you can trace the wire back to see which cable it comes out of and then trace the corresponding neutral (the white wire) to the neutral buss.

A Kill-a-Watt meter might be helpful. They are only around $20, and you can plug your light into one and monitor the voltage that it is being fed.

 

[TheKingOfThis]

Yes. Thank you so much for the information you provide us. Most, in my honest opinion, don't have any business trying to mess with electric wiring or device repairs...it's often far more complex than most people can comprehend. My advice to most...if you don't know what the following terms mean, you shouldn't even be thinking about reading on, let alone doing electrical wiring that should be done by a licensed electrician:

The terms are:
Volts
Watts
Amps
Neutral
Ground
Hot
Circuit
Breaker
Receptacle
Outlet


I say this only to tell those that THINK they know enough to handle the job...DON'T TRY IT!

I've been around long enough to set up 4 rooms in my own homes, and countless others...and even though my experience, we still have a good friend who is an electrician come do all the fun stuff. It's no fun being bit, less fun burning up your equipment, and even less fun explaining to the jury that you didn't know that you could burn a neighborhood down because of a lack of knowledge in wiring.

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Hello Rives! Thanks! WOW! This is brilliant!

I have photographs of the walls before the sheet rock was put on this house. I made notes of where all the wires were, and how they ran the circuits. Although I hadnt come up with the brilliant way to check them that you did, I knew enough that the cords had to be on different circuits.

I know enough about power to know that I had to have circuits with little to now power being drawn currently. I have two circuits in the house that literally have nothing on them, as I am not using the rooms.

I put cords in those bedrooms, snaking them through the house..and the lights still do their "fade out" thing.

Its almost as if the house is wired correctly on one side, but not the other. Yet, I know that cant be right either.


I started out with one dual hose AC, four wall fans, one six inch air scrubber, and one 1000 watt light. So far, so good.

But something happened... the plants didnt know I was under the impression these plants didnt get any higher than 18 inches, and that all strains were the same. I was told "try lots of strains, see what you like." So I popped 7 strains, 13 seeds total. At the time, it seemed like not enough... boy.. was I wrong.

Its like "Little shop of horrors!" Feed Me, Seymour!

I was told to put them in bigger containers, so they are all in 5 gallon airpots. So suddenly the 1,000 watt light is not enough.

I had a 600 watt and a 400 watt gavita bulb and ballast sets. It took three nights of plugging and unplugging before I found which way I could run the lights and get all three lights working. I got it done. Got three nights of sleep, then my buddy wants the ballast for the 600 watt back, and my only option is to do two 1,000 watt bulbs, because thats the other ballast I had.

Now.. I put in the new ballast and the 1,000 watt light

both ballasts went dim, even though they were on 15 amp circuits all by themselves. One would turn off.. then wait a while,, then turn on, then the other would do it, sometimes both will do it.

Thats when I started this insanity of trying to figure out what plugs can handle the lamp. Once I plugged in the second 1,000 lamp, nothing has worked right.

I unplugged one lamp, and the other one started fading in and out and turning off. I dont know what to do. I want to call in a real electrician, but feel I have to rip out my grow to do it. Im scared. I am scared there is a serious problem in the wiring and dont know what to do, let alone know how to get light.

Thanks Rives

A few basic tips:
The 15 amp circuits are generally switches/room lighting. Not much load, usually only one overhead room light hence, 15 amp. Its not good idea to use the 15 amp circuit for anything growage related, let alone a 1000 watt lite. circuit. Youre just beggin for trouble.

The outlet circuits are typically 20amp because depending on the size of the room, 4 walls means a minimum of 4 outlets at least and in simple terms, a lot of stuff can get plugged into 4 outlets. If several rooms (typical with bedrooms) are on the same outlet circuit, you could have 8, 10, 12 outlets or more on 1-20amp circuit.

With newer home construction, electrical contractors sometimes cut corners and combine more rooms into 1- 20amp circuit than is wise but unless massive amp draw hardware is plugged into the circuit, the shortcut may never be noticed. The elect contractor assumes only lamps, alarm clocks etc will be plugged in...

Along comes indoor "entrepreneur" and all that changes. The use of ANY extension cords compounds the problem. If you have cords "snaking thru the house" your most likely already doomed in terms of safety and proper performance. As a rule, 20 amp circuits dont react well to long extension cords. You may get away with plugging in a 600wt or even a 1000wt but usually, not for long. The circuit may work OK-fine when you first fire up the lite(s) but youll find it soon beginning to trip due to heat build up in the weak wiring or the outlets themselves. Usually, 20amp circs are 12-2 /12-3 wire. It isnt designed and simply wont handle big amp draw stuff. A nite lite or 2, alarm clock- yes, a vacuum cleaner- yes, but not a 1000wt long term. Add in the heat build up from the extension cords and youre creating a potential disaster...You have to realize, youre not plugging in one item for just a few minutes. You are plugging in A LOT of stuff that will be drawing massive amps and for LONG periods...Also, once the circuit overheats, the breaker in the panel may be reset a few times but eventually, it will go all anal and refuse any participation. Replacing the breaker will, in the end, result in toasting a perfectly good breaker, just like the first one. It IS trying to tell you something...

To get started without massive rewiring, and if extension cord use is unavoidable, make your first source of electricity for the big amp draw hardware, the WASHER outlet. Typically, it is the only 110v household outlet that is wired 30amp. Check your panel to verify. This circuit is good for a 1000wt and maybe a 600wt too. 2- 1000wt's on a 30amp would be pushing it. Put your fans, timers and other smaller draw equip on the 20's. If using an extension cord from the 30amp outlet, avoid Home Depot weekend warrior "spaghetti' cords. Youll need a heavy duty 10/3 construction rated construction cord. Cut the female end off, wire in a 4way metal/plastic gang box using 30 amp rated outlets (orange face)...Try to make it no longer than 50 ft. I have a 100 footer but hesitate putting to much load on it due to the length.

This will get you started but to be safe & righteous, indoor growage begins and ends with min 30 amp circuits for EVERYTHING...cc

 

[rives]

A few basic tips:
The 15 amp circuits are generally switches/room lighting. Not much load, usually only one overhead room light hence, 15 amp. Its not good idea to use the 15 amp circuit for anything growage related, let alone a 1000 watt lite. circuit. Youre just beggin for trouble.

The outlet circuits are typically 20amp because depending on the size of the room, 4 walls means a minimum of 4 outlets at least and in simple terms, a lot of stuff can get plugged into 4 outlets. If several rooms (typical with bedrooms) are on the same outlet circuit, you could have 8, 10, 12 outlets or more on 1-20amp circuit.

With newer home construction, electrical contractors sometimes cut corners and combine more rooms into 1- 20amp circuit than is wise but unless massive amp draw hardware is plugged into the circuit, the shortcut may never be noticed. The elect contractor assumes only lamps, alarm clocks etc will be plugged in...

Along comes indoor "entrepreneur" and all that changes. The use of ANY extension cords compounds the problem. If you have cords "snaking thru the house" your most likely already doomed in terms of safety and proper performance. As a rule, 20 amp circuits dont react well to long extension cords. You may get away with plugging in a 600wt or even a 1000wt but usually, not for long. The circuit may work OK-fine when you first fire up the lite(s) but youll find it soon beginning to trip due to heat build up in the weak wiring or the outlets themselves. Usually, 20amp circs are 12-2 /12-3 wire. It isnt designed and simply wont handle big amp draw stuff. A nite lite or 2, alarm clock- yes, a vacuum cleaner- yes, but not a 1000wt long term. Add in the heat build up from the extension cords and youre creating a potential disaster...You have to realize, youre not plugging in one item for just a few minutes. You are plugging in A LOT of stuff that will be drawing massive amps and for LONG periods...Also, once the circuit overheats, the breaker in the panel may be reset a few times but eventually, it will go all anal and refuse any participation. Replacing the breaker will, in the end, result in toasting a perfectly good breaker, just like the first one. It IS trying to tell you something...

To get started without massive rewiring, and if extension cord use is unavoidable, make your first source of electricity for the big amp draw hardware, the WASHER outlet. Typically, it is the only 110v household outlet that is wired 30amp. Check your panel to verify. This circuit is good for a 1000wt and maybe a 600wt too. 2- 1000wt's on a 30amp would be pushing it. Put your fans, timers and other smaller draw equip on the 20's. If using an extension cord from the 30amp outlet, avoid Home Depot weekend warrior "spaghetti' cords. Youll need a heavy duty 10/3 construction rated construction cord. Cut the female end off, wire in a 4way metal/plastic gang box using 30 amp rated outlets (orange face)...Try to make it no longer than 50 ft. I have a 100 footer but hesitate putting to much load on it due to the length.

This will get you started but to be safe & righteous, indoor growage begins and ends with min 30 amp circuits for EVERYTHING...cc

Sorry, but you have a tremendous amount of incorrect information in here.

#12 wire is perfectly fine for up to 20a loads as long as the distance involved won't cause an excessive voltage drop. On a 120v circuit, this is 2400w. The power draw should be limited to 80% of the breaker rating for continuous loads (3+ hours) unless you are using a breaker that is listed (specially tested and approved) for 100% duty.

Extension cords should be avoided if at all possible, but it is because they pose a tripping hazard and have a higher potential for damage. If the cord, the plugs and the receptacles are of good quality (SJ or SO cord, specification grade receptacles, etc) and the cord conductors are the same gauge as the interior wall wiring, then there is little difference between the two.

30a circuits should never be used to power equipment that isn't specifically designed for it. The closer the overcurrent protection rating is to the load, the quicker the protection will react to a problem and the lower the resultant damage will be. A 1000w light on 120v, with ballast losses, will pull approximately 9.2 amps. A 15a circuit derated to 80% for continuous duty, can source 12 amps.

120v, 30a receptacles and plugs are very expensive, hard to source, and have absolutely nothing to do with the color of the receptacle. Orange receptacles indicate that they are on an isolated ground circuit, typically used for computers and electronics.

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Sorry, but you have a tremendous amount of incorrect information in here.

#12 wire is perfectly fine for up to 20a loads as long as the distance involved won't cause an excessive voltage drop. On a 120v circuit, this is 2400w. The power draw should be limited to 80% of the breaker rating for continuous loads (3+ hours) unless you are using a breaker that is listed (specially tested and approved) for 100% duty.

Extension cords should be avoided if at all possible, but it is because they pose a tripping hazard and have a higher potential for damage. If the cord, the plugs and the receptacles are of good quality (SJ or SO cord, specification grade receptacles, etc) and the cord conductors are the same gauge as the interior wall wiring, then there is little difference between the two.

30a circuits should never be used to power equipment that isn't specifically designed for it. The closer the overcurrent protection rating is to the load, the quicker the protection will react to a problem and the lower the resultant damage will be. A 1000w light on 120v, with ballast losses, will pull approximately 9.2 amps. A 15a circuit derated to 80% for continuous duty, can source 12 amps.

120v, 30a receptacles and plugs are very expensive, hard to source, and have absolutely nothing to do with the color of the receptacle. Orange receptacles indicate that they are on an isolated ground circuit, typically used for computers and electronics.

My apologies to Jean Greens, but sometimes, a fella just has to take a stand-

Geeez Rives, no need to go all "Im the expert and youre not" on me. "Tremendous amount of incorrect information...?" That's a pretty harsh and egotistical statement and what does "being sorry" have to do with anything other than coming off as condescending? I dont believe my advice is wrong, and to dismiss my post as "a tremendous amount of incorrect info makes you what? The IC electrical God? I doubt it...

#12 wire is perfectly fine for up to 20a loads as long as the distance involved won't cause an excessive voltage drop. On a 120v circuit, this is 2400w. The power draw should be limited to 80% of the breaker rating for continuous loads (3+ hours) unless you are using a breaker that is listed (specially tested and approved) for 100% duty.[/B" If this is accurate, explain why a 1 hp air compressor, pugged into a bedroom 20 amp circuit MAY run fine but with the use of an extention cord plugged into the same receptacle, the compressor motor wont even turn over?

.
Extension cords should be avoided if at all possible, but it is because they pose a tripping hazard and have a higher potential for damage. If the cord, the plugs and the receptacles are of good quality (SJ or SO cord, specification grade receptacles, etc) and the cord conductors are the same gauge as the interior wall wiring, then there is little difference between the two. Only a tripping hazard? Higher potential for damage? Like what, breaking your nose if you do trip? And length or size of cord is not relative? As I said, plug a high draw hardware item (such as a 1000wt ballast/lite) directly into a wall socket and then compare by adding a long extension cord. Good plugs and receptacles are not relative at that point, its the length and wire size of the extension cord.

"30a circuits should never be used to power equipment that isn't specifically designed for it." The same can be said about 15amp or 20 amp circuits or any circuit for that matter...And what circuit in a house is specifically designed for indoor growing...? And really, your gonna bust my electrical chops over color?


120v, 30a receptacles and plugs are very expensive, hard to source Really? What does rebuilding a house cost if you burn the damn thing down? Are you suggesting that grow equipment isnt expensive? Dude, the whole indoor thing is expensive...And youre telling me you cant find 30a components at an electrical supply house?

Like many on any forum, my post was safe & sound advice. I have no desire to read thru all your posts in hopes of finding something I can shoot down, simply to prove mine is bigger than yours. Lighten up oh electrical master, your stature in the IC electrical advice world isnt bein threatened by the likes of me......cc

 

[rives]

My apologies to Jean Greens, but sometimes, a fella just has to take a stand-

Geeez Rives, no need to go all "Im the expert and youre not" on me. "Tremendous amount of incorrect information...?" That's a pretty harsh and egotistical statement and what does "being sorry" have to do with anything other than coming off as condescending? I dont believe my advice is wrong, and to dismiss my post as "a tremendous amount of incorrect info makes you what? The IC electrical God? I doubt it...

Actually, the "sorry" part was because I thought that your advice-giving was meant well, but the information that you presented was incorrect. The "tremendous amount" was because you touched on numerous things, a few of which I didn't even bother to address. No, I don't consider myself the resident "electrical god" and am more than happy to have others contribute information as long as it isn't misleading.



#12 wire is perfectly fine for up to 20a loads as long as the distance involved won't cause an excessive voltage drop. On a 120v circuit, this is 2400w. The power draw should be limited to 80% of the breaker rating for continuous loads (3+ hours) unless you are using a breaker that is listed (specially tested and approved) for 100% duty.[/B" If this is accurate, explain why a 1 hp air compressor, pugged into a bedroom 20 amp circuit MAY run fine but with the use of an extention cord plugged into the same receptacle, the compressor motor wont even turn over?

The reason for this is twofold.

First, motors are much more sensitive to voltage drop than almost any other electrical device. That is why the Code calls for a maximum of a 3% voltage drop for motor circuit calculations, and residential circuits are limited to 5%.

Second, a motor's starting current is unusual in that the current goes through the roof until the motor is up to full speed. Motors can draw up to 300% of their full load current while accelerating.

In your example, the cord was either too long, too small of a gauge, or both. If your compressor pulls 10a on a 120v circuit, a 50' 12 gauge extension cord is going to add a 1.65% voltage drop (2 volts) to the existing circuit's drop at rated current. If you use a 100' 16 gauge extension cord, that jumps to 8.3% drop (10 volts). However, at 300% inrush current, the drop goes from 4% (5v) on the 12 gauge cord to 25% (30 volts) on the 16 gauge cord. This voltage drop causes the current to go up even more, causing the voltage to drop some more, which then increases the current yet again.....
.
Extension cords should be avoided if at all possible, but it is because they pose a tripping hazard and have a higher potential for damage. If the cord, the plugs and the receptacles are of good quality (SJ or SO cord, specification grade receptacles, etc) and the cord conductors are the same gauge as the interior wall wiring, then there is little difference between the two. Only a tripping hazard? Higher potential for damage? Like what, breaking your nose if you do trip? And length or size of cord is not relative? As I said, plug a high draw hardware item (such as a 1000wt ballast/lite) directly into a wall socket and then compare by adding a long extension cord. Good plugs and receptacles are not relative at that point, its the length and wire size of the extension cord.

No, a higher potential for damage to the cord. Because it isn't protected within the wall or a raceway, it is subject to incidental damage from being banged around. Certainly the length and size come into play, that is why I stated "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and the cord conductors are the same gauge as the interior wall wiring". Regarding the length, again, if the cord is same gauge as the interior wall wiring, the voltage drop is exactly the same as if the interior wall wiring was extended to that point.,[/FONT]

Good plugs and receptacles are certainly relevant at that point because that how the connection from one wire to the other is being made. Cheap receptacles with lower spring tension and higher resistance components from cheap alloys degrade that connection.

"30a circuits should never be used to power equipment that isn't specifically designed for it." The same can be said about 15amp or 20 amp circuits or any circuit for that matter...And what circuit in a house is specifically designed for indoor growing...? And really, your gonna bust my electrical chops over color?

Yep, the same can certainly be said for 15 or 20a circuits. The difference is that almost all available equipment is designed for usage on 15a circuits. The cords, the plugs, and sometimes the internal components (the ones without internal fusing) are all selected on this basis.

And yes, I am going to bust your chops over color. The information that you stated was wrong - the ampacity of a receptacle is designated by the pin configuration, not the color. The color orange is reserved for receptacles that have an isolated ground, meaning that the ground on the receptacle doesn't connect to the metal mounting strap and keeps the building ground from coming into contact with the electrical ground. As I said, they are meant for computers and electronics that are sensitive to stray currents from building grounds.


120v, 30a receptacles and plugs are very expensive, hard to source Really? What does rebuilding a house cost if you burn the damn thing down? Are you suggesting that grow equipment isnt expensive? Dude, the whole indoor thing is expensive...And youre telling me you cant find 30a components at an electrical supply house?

120v 30a receptacles and plugs are a NEMA 5-30 designation. Neither Home Depot or Lowes even carry them, and they are usually a special-order item at an industrial electrical supply house. Prices from a quick search range from from $35 - $85 for a single plug, and the receptacles are proportionate.


Like many on any forum, my post was safe & sound advice. I have no desire to read thru all your posts in hopes of finding something I can shoot down, simply to prove mine is bigger than yours. Lighten up oh electrical master, your stature in the IC electrical advice world isnt bein threatened by the likes of me......cc

Most of your advice was safe, where it wasn't completely off-base (orange receptacle = 30a). However, it was completely overboard and needlessly expensive, and some of it was dangerous (30a circuits feeding 15a rated components). Any advice I give is based on the NEC and approaching 40 years of being an electrician. And no, I don't feel threatened, I just don't like to see incorrect electrical information presented!

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Most of your advice was safe, where it wasn't completely off-base (orange receptacle = 30a). However, it was completely overboard and needlessly expensive, and some of it was dangerous (30a circuits feeding 15a rated components). Any advice I give is based on the NEC and approaching 40 years of being an electrician. And no, I don't feel threatened, I just don't like to see incorrect electrical information presented!

All your tech spewing is mostly according to you...Hell, you could be an out of work pig farmer for all I know...it is the internet! You may be an electrical genius but indoor growing in terms of elect use really comes down to a lot of common sense...And apparently that would put you out of a cyber-job with all your pretty much above the head of the typical grower...Whatever dude, it's your 40 year rodeo...cc

 

[rives]

Research anything that I've said. It's all available on the net, including voltage drop calculators.

By the way, these pictures are of 125v, 30a plugs and receptacles. Are these really what you had in mind?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=34072&pictureid=1294751

 

[nukklehead]

YES rives is an out of work pig farmer... you are so right...

I would never take his advice on electricity...

dude .. well I will shut up.. rives doesnt need me.....

 

[rives]

Busted! In real life, I'm actually Max Yasgur.

 

[JeanGreens]

You need to verify that the circuits are actually run the way that you think – it is very common for different rooms to share the same circuits, so you may be using the same circuit even though you are using different rooms to get the power.

If the receptacles actually are on separate circuits and there is no other load on them, then you have a wiring problem. It would be very rare for an individual receptacle to be fed with it’s own circuit, so the problem may be upstream at a receptacle that is unused. The spring-clip style receptacles that you just push the wires into the holes in the back are famous for causing problems; you should always use receptacles that utilize screw-clamp connections. If this is your problem, you may be able to put your hand on the problematic receptacle and feel heat if the light has been running for a while.

A loose neutral connection can cause all kinds of strange problems, and can be a bitch to find. Check the connections at the backs of the receptacles, at the breakers, and at the neutral buss in the load center. Once you identify which breakers feed your circuits, you can trace the wire back to see which cable it comes out of and then trace the corresponding neutral (the white wire) to the neutral buss.

A Kill-a-Watt meter might be helpful. They are only around $20, and you can plug your light into one and monitor the voltage that it is being fed.

Rives... thanks a BUNCH!! Super sweet trick about finding out where the circuits really go.

Oddly enough, your circuit trick was what made me find the problem by accident. Although the circuits were exactly what I thought they were, by knowing it was right took out any chance that it might be a circuit issue.

After doing this check, I plugged in the lights and everything worked perfectly. It didnt make sense. Then the lights finally got hot enough so that I needed the AC. I turned the AC on and immediately all the house lights dimmed and one of the lights shut down.

I FOUND IT! Its my AC!

I was so happy.. soon to feel so stupid.... lol..

Another ICmag user, came over to help me load the offending AC unit. Before doing so, he asked to read the directions for the unit. (Since when do MEN read directions???) He soon informed me that the brand new AC unit had gathered enough water and was tripping its breakers because I was about to flood my grow room.... (again).

Damn it. Damn it. Damn it. One day my mentor will come over and I wont give him a reason to laugh at my n00b mistakes.. *sigh*

 

[JeanGreens]

Yes. Thank you so much for the information you provide us. Most, in my honest opinion, don't have any business trying to mess with electric wiring or device repairs...it's often far more complex than most people can comprehend. My advice to most...if you don't know what the following terms mean, you shouldn't even be thinking about reading on, let alone doing electrical wiring that should be done by a licensed electrician:

The terms are:
Volts
Watts
Amps
Neutral
Ground
Hot
Circuit
Breaker
Receptacle
Outlet


I say this only to tell those that THINK they know enough to handle the job...DON'T TRY IT!

I've been around long enough to set up 4 rooms in my own homes, and countless others...and even though my experience, we still have a good friend who is an electrician come do all the fun stuff. It's no fun being bit, less fun burning up your equipment, and even less fun explaining to the jury that you didn't know that you could burn a neighborhood down because of a lack of knowledge in wiring.

There is a massive difference between "messing with electric wires" and asking for advice. The knowledge base is massive on ICmag, and I am quite positive if Rives had a concern that testing circuits in that manner would be dangerous, he would have suggested a safe way to solve the problem.

Rives suggestion (thanks) to the circuit caused me to find out the problem. I tested wires safely, I didnt spend the funds to call an electrician, and someone with far more knowledge than I was willing to give me the information to do the testing.

Jean..

 

[JeanGreens]

A few basic tips:
The 15 amp circuits are generally switches/room lighting. Not much load, usually only one overhead room light hence, 15 amp. Its not good idea to use the 15 amp circuit for anything growage related, let alone a 1000 watt lite. circuit. Youre just beggin for trouble.

The outlet circuits are typically 20amp because depending on the size of the room, 4 walls means a minimum of 4 outlets at least and in simple terms, a lot of stuff can get plugged into 4 outlets. If several rooms (typical with bedrooms) are on the same outlet circuit, you could have 8, 10, 12 outlets or more on 1-20amp circuit.

With newer home construction, electrical contractors sometimes cut corners and combine more rooms into 1- 20amp circuit than is wise but unless massive amp draw hardware is plugged into the circuit, the shortcut may never be noticed. The elect contractor assumes only lamps, alarm clocks etc will be plugged in...

Along comes indoor "entrepreneur" and all that changes. The use of ANY extension cords compounds the problem. If you have cords "snaking thru the house" your most likely already doomed in terms of safety and proper performance. As a rule, 20 amp circuits dont react well to long extension cords. You may get away with plugging in a 600wt or even a 1000wt but usually, not for long. The circuit may work OK-fine when you first fire up the lite(s) but youll find it soon beginning to trip due to heat build up in the weak wiring or the outlets themselves. Usually, 20amp circs are 12-2 /12-3 wire. It isnt designed and simply wont handle big amp draw stuff. A nite lite or 2, alarm clock- yes, a vacuum cleaner- yes, but not a 1000wt long term. Add in the heat build up from the extension cords and youre creating a potential disaster...You have to realize, youre not plugging in one item for just a few minutes. You are plugging in A LOT of stuff that will be drawing massive amps and for LONG periods...Also, once the circuit overheats, the breaker in the panel may be reset a few times but eventually, it will go all anal and refuse any participation. Replacing the breaker will, in the end, result in toasting a perfectly good breaker, just like the first one. It IS trying to tell you something...

To get started without massive rewiring, and if extension cord use is unavoidable, make your first source of electricity for the big amp draw hardware, the WASHER outlet. Typically, it is the only 110v household outlet that is wired 30amp. Check your panel to verify. This circuit is good for a 1000wt and maybe a 600wt too. 2- 1000wt's on a 30amp would be pushing it. Put your fans, timers and other smaller draw equip on the 20's. If using an extension cord from the 30amp outlet, avoid Home Depot weekend warrior "spaghetti' cords. Youll need a heavy duty 10/3 construction rated construction cord. Cut the female end off, wire in a 4way metal/plastic gang box using 30 amp rated outlets (orange face)...Try to make it no longer than 50 ft. I have a 100 footer but hesitate putting to much load on it due to the length.

This will get you started but to be safe & righteous, indoor growage begins and ends with min 30 amp circuits for EVERYTHING...cc

Ahh... *glazed over look*

I'll call an electrician if that happens... omg...

 

[plutosmoke]

rives what happens when one of your service line drops down to 100v? but the other line is still sending 120v?

 

[Jhhnn]

Ahh... *glazed over look*

I'll call an electrician if that happens... omg...

You're a gem- thanks for the chuckle.

 

[rives]

rives what happens when one of your service line drops down to 100v? but the other line is still sending 120v?

You may have a loose or high resistance connection on that leg, or possibly a damaged transformer feeding the structure. Severe load imbalances can cause one phase to be read lower than the other, but I can't come up with a scenario that would create that much difference if all of the equipment is healthy. It needs to be checked out immediately, because the equipment on the low leg isn't going to last long.

 

[Jhhnn]

You may have a loose or high resistance connection on that leg, or possibly a damaged transformer feeding the structure. Severe load imbalances can cause one phase to be read lower than the other, but I can't come up with a scenario that would create that much difference if all of the equipment is healthy. It needs to be checked out immediately, because the equipment on the low leg isn't going to last long.

Yep. Your advice is right on, as always. adding to it-

I'd go to the main panel, check the voltages at the main buss. If the voltage is wrong with the main breaker off, there's a problem with the service requiring immediate attention. After that, it's a matter of checking the breakers & the neutral buss, isolating the problem circuit & dealing with it from there. Heavy loads can drag down operational circuit voltage if there's any poor connection.

Don't do this if you don't know the safety protocols. Call an electrician.

 

[plutosmoke]

thanks jhhnn and rives! will call electrician right away certainly nothing in my power to fix

 

[indocult]

Just wanted to say much thanks to everyone in this thread. This kept me from burning my house down more than once I'm sure.

 

[twist1uc]

Hello all.

I'm looking to find out how to daisy chain 240V receptacles. I would like to put 4 ballasts on one 30amp breaker.

Thanks in advance!!