G
Guest
Fuckin Nice!
i have been waitin for the day this info came to ic 
we shoulda stole this earlier
i have been waitin for the day this info came to ic we shoulda stole this earlier
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
- Status
i can stop there cj if ya want me to 
i need to smoke a bowl any whos...............
heres a nice page with tons of info http://mojo.calyx.net/~olsen/HEMP/IHA/iha.html
i need to smoke a bowl any whos...............
heres a nice page with tons of info http://mojo.calyx.net/~olsen/HEMP/IHA/iha.html
Last edited:
G
Guest
g-g-g-g-grape ish
What is the nomenclature of Cannabis?
What is the nomenclature of Cannabis?
Added by: MR_NATURAL420
Nomenclature is the method biologists use to precisely define the relationship of an organism. Common names are not descriptive enough. When I say "grass", more than one thing comes to mind, so you need a way to narrow it down.
The genus is always capitalized and the species is not: Cannabis indica
When the genus is mentioned frequently, it is often abreviated: C. indica
When there is a sub-species it is distinguished like this: C. indica ssp. kafiristanica
A variety is indicated by: C. indica var. afghani
A land-race, or "form", isn't different enough to be a variety and it is written like this: C. indica f. maple-leaf
Any plant that is in cultivation (a cultivar, clone or hybrid) is capitalized and seperated by quotation marks: C. indica "Super Skunk"
Inbred lines are indicated by an alpha-numeric figure: NL#5
There is disagreement among biologists as to whether Cannabis should be divided into species or not, but for practical purposes we usually divide it into C. indica, C. sativa, and C. ruderalis. C. indica has wide leaves and either a cadelabra shape or a dominant main cola. C. sativa is a tall plant with many branches and is either bamboo shaped or christmas tree shaped. C. ruderalis is a small plant with little THC that flowers independant of the photoperiod.
What is the nomenclature of Cannabis?
Added by: MR_NATURAL420
Nomenclature is the method biologists use to precisely define the relationship of an organism. Common names are not descriptive enough. When I say "grass", more than one thing comes to mind, so you need a way to narrow it down.
The genus is always capitalized and the species is not: Cannabis indica
When the genus is mentioned frequently, it is often abreviated: C. indica
When there is a sub-species it is distinguished like this: C. indica ssp. kafiristanica
A variety is indicated by: C. indica var. afghani
A land-race, or "form", isn't different enough to be a variety and it is written like this: C. indica f. maple-leaf
Any plant that is in cultivation (a cultivar, clone or hybrid) is capitalized and seperated by quotation marks: C. indica "Super Skunk"
Inbred lines are indicated by an alpha-numeric figure: NL#5
There is disagreement among biologists as to whether Cannabis should be divided into species or not, but for practical purposes we usually divide it into C. indica, C. sativa, and C. ruderalis. C. indica has wide leaves and either a cadelabra shape or a dominant main cola. C. sativa is a tall plant with many branches and is either bamboo shaped or christmas tree shaped. C. ruderalis is a small plant with little THC that flowers independant of the photoperiod.
How should strains be named?
How should strains be named?
GrowFAQ : Breeding
Added by: MisterIto
In the horticultural world, the order of naming in hybrids should be Female X Male. Many breeders and retailers practice improper naming protocol. I have seen too many obvious discrepencies in commercial Cannabis naming practices to give any validity to the standard protocol as a way to determine the parentage. Breeders and retailers should correct this.
When choosing a name for your prize breeding project, it is important to be original and not be confusing. Unfortunately, some seed breeders are using names for their newer and different offerings already taken by strains currently held by other seedbanks. This is definitely something that is deceptive and troublesome. Introducing a different strain under another, now famous name appears to be an attempt to ride on their coattails. It is terribly confusing and misleading to the consumer for another company in the same market to decide to use the same name for a newer and different product. What if VW decided their new sports car was going to be called a Corvette because they are based in Europe and they like the name? They have lawyers for this.
How should strains be named?
GrowFAQ : Breeding
Added by: MisterIto
In the horticultural world, the order of naming in hybrids should be Female X Male. Many breeders and retailers practice improper naming protocol. I have seen too many obvious discrepencies in commercial Cannabis naming practices to give any validity to the standard protocol as a way to determine the parentage. Breeders and retailers should correct this.
When choosing a name for your prize breeding project, it is important to be original and not be confusing. Unfortunately, some seed breeders are using names for their newer and different offerings already taken by strains currently held by other seedbanks. This is definitely something that is deceptive and troublesome. Introducing a different strain under another, now famous name appears to be an attempt to ride on their coattails. It is terribly confusing and misleading to the consumer for another company in the same market to decide to use the same name for a newer and different product. What if VW decided their new sports car was going to be called a Corvette because they are based in Europe and they like the name? They have lawyers for this.
How should I store my seeds?
How should I store my seeds?
GrowFAQ : Breeding
How should I store my seeds?
Added by: MisterIto
For uninterrupted long term storage, freezing in a vacuum pack with a dessicant is best. Each time a batch of seeds goes through a freeze/thaw cycle, a few become unviable. For storage lengths of a few years or less, room temperature storage in an airtight container with a dessicant is satisfactory. Vacuum packing with dessicant and room temperature storage is best for access without the thaw and re-freezing that kills them. The problem with using the refrigerator for any period of time is the excessive amount of moisture constantly present. Each time the door is opened, moisture condenses on items inside, for which the dessicant is an inadequate deterrent for molds. A vacuum sealed container should not condense moisture on the inside. Using heat to remove any moisture present in rice or other "makeshift" dessicants will improve effectiveness and longevity. I have heard of vermiculite being used as a dessicant, but would recommend silica gel as a first choice. I heard of properly stored seeds over 10 years old still germinating at acceptable rates
How should I store my seeds?
GrowFAQ : Breeding
How should I store my seeds?
Added by: MisterIto
For uninterrupted long term storage, freezing in a vacuum pack with a dessicant is best. Each time a batch of seeds goes through a freeze/thaw cycle, a few become unviable. For storage lengths of a few years or less, room temperature storage in an airtight container with a dessicant is satisfactory. Vacuum packing with dessicant and room temperature storage is best for access without the thaw and re-freezing that kills them. The problem with using the refrigerator for any period of time is the excessive amount of moisture constantly present. Each time the door is opened, moisture condenses on items inside, for which the dessicant is an inadequate deterrent for molds. A vacuum sealed container should not condense moisture on the inside. Using heat to remove any moisture present in rice or other "makeshift" dessicants will improve effectiveness and longevity. I have heard of vermiculite being used as a dessicant, but would recommend silica gel as a first choice. I heard of properly stored seeds over 10 years old still germinating at acceptable rates
Last edited:
How can I contribute as a sativa breeder?
How can I contribute as a sativa breeder?
GrowFAQ : Breeding
How can I contribute as a sativa breeder?
Added by: MisterIto
Just as we all benefited from SSSC and their networking of local European and North American seed breeders in the 1980's, we would benefit by a cooperative network breeding sativa or sativa dominant strains, stabilizing strains obtained in the country of natural origin and developing hybrids and stable strains from them. It will be space and time consuming, but these genetics would definitely have a large market. This concept would truly be an important undertaking.
My wish list includes strains from Australia, Brazil, Cambodia, Columbia, Ethiopia, India, Hawaii, India, Indonesia, Jamaica, Mexico, Nepal, Nigeria, Panama, Peru, South Africa, Swaziland and Vietnam. Some may have other desirable genetics to add to this pure sativa gene pool. The Federation brought forward some unique pure sativa and double sativa hybrids with the Golden Triangle Thai and Celestial Temple Sativa along with their trademark Hawaiin Sativa. African Seeds and the Dutch seed banks offer various sativa from around the world. Pure Haze would, of course, have to be in the genetic pool. Certain sativas are not so long flowering and unwieldy they could not be used to produce nearly pure sativa hybrids and IBL's that were suitable for indoor growers also. Making hybrids of pure sativas with strains like AK47, Cinderella99, Genius, Jack Herer, Super Silver Haze and Skunk 1 would introduce potent sativa type genetics with more desirable structure and shorter flowering periods.
This will require dedication, time and hard work from people around the globe that are willing to travel to the locations not represented to acquire the seed stock. Individuals with a nose for adventure could spend some time making point of origin acquisition of the genetics for such a venture. It would not be too far fetched to visit some of these countries for adventurous people from places all over the world. Take a "vacation", if you make some connections, score some good local bud and see if any viable seeds are present. Many native land race strains have remained pure, while others have had outside genetics introduced. The older local growers in the region and educated breeders and growers would be in the best position to vouch for purity. If they obtained something of quality, vacationers could examine their "score" for seeds and consistency of the buds and send them home to evaluate. The indigenous strains of the countries listed are under represented in the overly reconstituted gene pool offered to us.
The larger scale outdoor growing to perform selective breeding is best suited to the tropics and greenhouses. Australia, Spain and their neighbors offer excellent weather conditions and proximity to local sativa land races for people living there. Africa, Southeast Asia, and India offer many unique genetics that should be worked with by experienced breeders and growers. Many individuals working in their corner of the world, developing strains and producing seed. The potential for meeting people who's locality has indigenous strains that have been cultivated for drug uses for many generations. These strains are needles in the haystack that need to be rediscovered and bred further.
The concept of seed archiving is important. There may be enough sativa strains in the hands of educated growers to probably fill all the locales on my wish list. Genetic diversity and continuance could be maintained indefinitely, if we organize a community of growers and breeders. Let's all put the time and effort into making strains available to everyone who wants them by forming a cooperative. The program goes as far as people are willing to contribute their own time and effort, not just people giving their seeds to others to grow. Sativa are like children...you have more patience and hope for your own. The idea is for people with the ability to set aside some time and space to perpetuate sativa genetics and hopefully come up with some special individuals to breed. It is my desire that individuals take the initiative to work with what is available to them.
How can I contribute as a sativa breeder?
GrowFAQ : Breeding
How can I contribute as a sativa breeder?
Added by: MisterIto
Just as we all benefited from SSSC and their networking of local European and North American seed breeders in the 1980's, we would benefit by a cooperative network breeding sativa or sativa dominant strains, stabilizing strains obtained in the country of natural origin and developing hybrids and stable strains from them. It will be space and time consuming, but these genetics would definitely have a large market. This concept would truly be an important undertaking.
My wish list includes strains from Australia, Brazil, Cambodia, Columbia, Ethiopia, India, Hawaii, India, Indonesia, Jamaica, Mexico, Nepal, Nigeria, Panama, Peru, South Africa, Swaziland and Vietnam. Some may have other desirable genetics to add to this pure sativa gene pool. The Federation brought forward some unique pure sativa and double sativa hybrids with the Golden Triangle Thai and Celestial Temple Sativa along with their trademark Hawaiin Sativa. African Seeds and the Dutch seed banks offer various sativa from around the world. Pure Haze would, of course, have to be in the genetic pool. Certain sativas are not so long flowering and unwieldy they could not be used to produce nearly pure sativa hybrids and IBL's that were suitable for indoor growers also. Making hybrids of pure sativas with strains like AK47, Cinderella99, Genius, Jack Herer, Super Silver Haze and Skunk 1 would introduce potent sativa type genetics with more desirable structure and shorter flowering periods.
This will require dedication, time and hard work from people around the globe that are willing to travel to the locations not represented to acquire the seed stock. Individuals with a nose for adventure could spend some time making point of origin acquisition of the genetics for such a venture. It would not be too far fetched to visit some of these countries for adventurous people from places all over the world. Take a "vacation", if you make some connections, score some good local bud and see if any viable seeds are present. Many native land race strains have remained pure, while others have had outside genetics introduced. The older local growers in the region and educated breeders and growers would be in the best position to vouch for purity. If they obtained something of quality, vacationers could examine their "score" for seeds and consistency of the buds and send them home to evaluate. The indigenous strains of the countries listed are under represented in the overly reconstituted gene pool offered to us.
The larger scale outdoor growing to perform selective breeding is best suited to the tropics and greenhouses. Australia, Spain and their neighbors offer excellent weather conditions and proximity to local sativa land races for people living there. Africa, Southeast Asia, and India offer many unique genetics that should be worked with by experienced breeders and growers. Many individuals working in their corner of the world, developing strains and producing seed. The potential for meeting people who's locality has indigenous strains that have been cultivated for drug uses for many generations. These strains are needles in the haystack that need to be rediscovered and bred further.
The concept of seed archiving is important. There may be enough sativa strains in the hands of educated growers to probably fill all the locales on my wish list. Genetic diversity and continuance could be maintained indefinitely, if we organize a community of growers and breeders. Let's all put the time and effort into making strains available to everyone who wants them by forming a cooperative. The program goes as far as people are willing to contribute their own time and effort, not just people giving their seeds to others to grow. Sativa are like children...you have more patience and hope for your own. The idea is for people with the ability to set aside some time and space to perpetuate sativa genetics and hopefully come up with some special individuals to breed. It is my desire that individuals take the initiative to work with what is available to them.
G
Guest
nice work 00420
How do I get rid of slugs?
How do I get rid of slugs?
How do I get rid of slugs?
A compilation of our user's contributions:
Use several methods to lessen their effect in the garden. Use beer traps to kill a few, use a wood board placed on the ground, in the daytime overturn it and squash the buggers. Use a flash light at night and hand pick them off and drop into soapy water. Other methods are installing copper edging, using materials around the plants that discourage them getting close, such as roofing shingles.
Hand picking at night & dumping in a cup of salt water is very satisfying, but exhausting!
Ammonia and salt both work, but I found a more natural solution. Very hard to do at first. This year I did not kill my snakes and slugs are down 90%, as slugs are one of the favorite foods of snakes. Just have to take it easy if you weed, run a stick around first, give Mr. Snake a chance to leave.
I use copper tape and it works pretty well but not 100%. The tape needs to be at least a couple inches wide & to cover any possible entry into the area you are protecting. This works well with container planting but less well with beds. If even a couple slugs (or eggs I guess) are already inside the taped area before you apply the tape they are of course unaffected--except they can't get OUT! Also after awhile the tape gets dirty & is less effective. That said, it has worked well for me on both pansies & sweet peas in containers when nothing else seemed to work, and the beauty of it is they just GO AWAY rather than leaving the goo you get with some other methods.
I had a problem with slugs for years in my shade garden. I finally used diatamaceous earth this year and the problem is all but gone!
I use Bug Geta Snail/Slug bait by Ortho. It is in a granular form that you spread around the plants you are trying to protect. Every two weeks should do it. Since it is brown in color, it's not as unsightly as D-earth.
I have a problem with slugs, but I won't spray toxic stuff. So far I've just been removing lower leaves that touch the soil to prevent the sort of moist environment slugs love. It definitely helps a bit
A hosta-loving person from TN said "A few hostas have been identified as slug-resistant - Sagae, Elegans, Sum and Substance, and Blue Angel. But to protect the others, he goes hunting at night (when slugs are most active) with a flashlight and a squirt gun filled with a solution of 25% ammonia and 75% water. One hit and the slug is history".
The ammonia approach requires a "search and destroy" mission to be effective, and only gets the ones you see and spray. Not that I haven't used it from time to time with some sick glee!
You need only a splash of ammonia with a quart or gallon of water. I also put in a small amount of mild liquid soap. This kills 'em but the baby slugs will live. It's hard to get to them where they live in the mulch.
I vote for the EscarGo which I have used with as good of success as Metaldehyde (the active slug killing ingredient in most slug bait, including GetaBug). EscarGo is harmless to all creatures except snails and slugs. Metaldehyde, even in small doses causes kidney damage and ultimate death in pets and kids. I was a vet tech for many years and we if we didn't lose the animals right away after ingestion of the poison they ended up dying years earlier than they should have because of severe kidney damage.
Garden Clinic
How do I get rid of slugs?
How do I get rid of slugs?
A compilation of our user's contributions:
Use several methods to lessen their effect in the garden. Use beer traps to kill a few, use a wood board placed on the ground, in the daytime overturn it and squash the buggers. Use a flash light at night and hand pick them off and drop into soapy water. Other methods are installing copper edging, using materials around the plants that discourage them getting close, such as roofing shingles.
Hand picking at night & dumping in a cup of salt water is very satisfying, but exhausting!
Ammonia and salt both work, but I found a more natural solution. Very hard to do at first. This year I did not kill my snakes and slugs are down 90%, as slugs are one of the favorite foods of snakes. Just have to take it easy if you weed, run a stick around first, give Mr. Snake a chance to leave.
I use copper tape and it works pretty well but not 100%. The tape needs to be at least a couple inches wide & to cover any possible entry into the area you are protecting. This works well with container planting but less well with beds. If even a couple slugs (or eggs I guess) are already inside the taped area before you apply the tape they are of course unaffected--except they can't get OUT! Also after awhile the tape gets dirty & is less effective. That said, it has worked well for me on both pansies & sweet peas in containers when nothing else seemed to work, and the beauty of it is they just GO AWAY rather than leaving the goo you get with some other methods.
I had a problem with slugs for years in my shade garden. I finally used diatamaceous earth this year and the problem is all but gone!
I use Bug Geta Snail/Slug bait by Ortho. It is in a granular form that you spread around the plants you are trying to protect. Every two weeks should do it. Since it is brown in color, it's not as unsightly as D-earth.
I have a problem with slugs, but I won't spray toxic stuff. So far I've just been removing lower leaves that touch the soil to prevent the sort of moist environment slugs love. It definitely helps a bit
A hosta-loving person from TN said "A few hostas have been identified as slug-resistant - Sagae, Elegans, Sum and Substance, and Blue Angel. But to protect the others, he goes hunting at night (when slugs are most active) with a flashlight and a squirt gun filled with a solution of 25% ammonia and 75% water. One hit and the slug is history".
The ammonia approach requires a "search and destroy" mission to be effective, and only gets the ones you see and spray. Not that I haven't used it from time to time with some sick glee!
You need only a splash of ammonia with a quart or gallon of water. I also put in a small amount of mild liquid soap. This kills 'em but the baby slugs will live. It's hard to get to them where they live in the mulch.
I vote for the EscarGo which I have used with as good of success as Metaldehyde (the active slug killing ingredient in most slug bait, including GetaBug). EscarGo is harmless to all creatures except snails and slugs. Metaldehyde, even in small doses causes kidney damage and ultimate death in pets and kids. I was a vet tech for many years and we if we didn't lose the animals right away after ingestion of the poison they ended up dying years earlier than they should have because of severe kidney damage.
Garden Clinic
G
Guest
hope you guys don't mind if i add a couple saved ones !
G
Guest
What should I feed my mothers prior to cloning?
What should I feed my mothers prior to cloning?
While the stock plant is in the active vegetative growth stage, feed it with a good quality, all-purpose or high Nitrogen fertilizer. One week before taking a cutting feed the stock plants with a low nitrogen, high Phosphorus flowering fertilizer.
The flowering fertilizer will lower the amount of stored nitrogen in the plant and increase the amount of stored carbohydrates necessary for the production of roots. Spraying the foliage with water daily will accelerate this process.
What should I feed my mothers prior to cloning?
While the stock plant is in the active vegetative growth stage, feed it with a good quality, all-purpose or high Nitrogen fertilizer. One week before taking a cutting feed the stock plants with a low nitrogen, high Phosphorus flowering fertilizer.
The flowering fertilizer will lower the amount of stored nitrogen in the plant and increase the amount of stored carbohydrates necessary for the production of roots. Spraying the foliage with water daily will accelerate this process.
G
Guest
Building a Cheapo-Aero cloning tub
Building a Cheapo-Aero cloning tub
The cheapo-Aero cloner is a very simple device to build.
It will perform just as well as expensive aero cloners costing hundreds of dollars. It operates on the same principle as every other aero cloner on the market, which is that the stems of the cuttings are suspended in an air space being misted by a fine spray of tiny flying water droplets.
Some aero cloner variations...
Some aero cloners work by way of the water being sprayed thru fine mist sprayheads by a water pump, others like the Rainforest cloner work by a spinning rotor which flings small water specs at the stems. There are even cloners on the market which use ultrasonic humidifier fog being pumped thru a chamber holding the stems.
The cheapo-aero works on the "bubbling bucket" principle, where tiny water droplets are created by the action of the air bubbles bursting at the water surface, sending a mist of water flying thru the open air space above the waterline where the stems are located.
I named it "Cheapo-Aero" because it is a cheap and simple alternative to the more complicated water pumped thru sprayers type aero cloner tubs. Ok, lets do it...
The materials list: (clockwise from top left)
One - good quality dual outlet airpump. I recommend the whisper 20/60 or the pulsar four. both are @ $20.00
One - cheap pull up tripper type timer about @ $5.00, please dont try aero cloning without the timer, it is critical imho for fast rooting.
A short length of 1/2" rubber fuel line or vynil tubing.
Fishtank airline or (preferred) some soft flexible black vynil drip line for the air bubblers.
One - Rubbermaid roughneck 1 gallon tub with lid @ $1.00
Two - aquaculture "bubble curtain" 10" bubble wands. @ $3.50 each
Assembly tools: drill bit(s), sharp box cutter knife, drip line punch and coupler fittings (optional).
One - tube of Goop brand plumbers adhesive @ $4.00
One - Spray can of Plasti-Dip brand "Spray-On" black rubber coating @ $6.00
One - 7-1/2 watt fishbowl heater. Walmart @ $6.00
AF has great luck using the cheap heater. However, please note that the small heater has no thermostatic control, depending on your room temperature, it may need to be connected to a timer and monitored to be certain that you dont overheat the water. So, if you can find a fully submersible thermostatic controlled heater that will fit in the tub without getting in the way of the air bubbles, I highly recommend doing so. There are several on the market which will mount along the bottom of the tub, parallel to the bubble curtains, use 25 watts or smaller size. You can also use use a thermostat controlled heating mat or place the entire cloner tub in a larger tray of water with an aquarium heater if you have a submirsible unit which is too large to fit in your tub.
The bubble curtains...
The Aqua Tech brand "bubble curtain" or equivalent are the only bubble device I'd recommend for bubble cloning. They are the least restrictive to pump air thru, and because of their hollow tubular design they produce a very uniform bubble coverage thruout the entire length of the wand.
Cut the bubble curtains to fit the length of the tub.
Remove the end cap and cut the wand to length using a sharp box cutter or razor blade knife. Replace endcaps.
One wand or two ?
The cheapo works great with one wand or two. For this project lets use two wands. Note picture also shows the location of the little heater installed. Use a dab of goop on the heaters suction cup to hold it in place between the wands.
Glue in the wand holding clips
The suction cups provided with the bubble curtains are prone to failure, when the cups stop sticking the air wand floats to the surface and the bubbling action stops working, causing failed clones.
Pull the clips out of the suction cups and glue them in place using the Goop plumbers adhesive to the bottom of the tub. You should rough up the gluing surface by scratching it with a knife or coarse sandpaper for a better grip.
Allow the glue to dry for at least two days to be sure its fully cured.
The waterline
The rubbermaid one gallon tub has a ridge molded in about 2-1/2" from the top. This will be the waterline.
For a nice sanitary assembly, punch two dripline couplers thru about a 1/4" above the ridge for the airlines to exit the tub.
Spray on the plasti dip black rubber coating...
The tub needs to be coated to prevent light from penetrating the tub and slowing down the rooting process. Normal spray paint does not stick and is too light transparent. The plasti dip sticks to the rubbermaid very well and with two or three coats fairly thick and very light proof. Spray and dry in a very well ventilated area.
You can get away with a few layers of duct tape, or a layer of "anti-corrosion pipe wrapping tape". But, the Plasti-Dip I've found to be the best solution for light proofing and neatness.
Drill the lid for the clone support tubes
underside of lid to show hole pattern used
For small clones, the 1/4" o.d. x .170 i.d. flexible drip line works fine for support tubes, but rooted clones can be tricky to remove from small the lid holes. Note tape tabs to keep the smaller supports from falling thru the lid, and numbering to identify the clones.
Optional larger support tube holes (recommended).
Using the 1/2" tubing for support tubes makes it much easier to remove the rooted clones from the lid. Number the holes to identify the clones later on. With either size holes, the *support tubes are cut to a maximum length of 1/2" and split down one side to be able to remove the rooted clones.
*It is important to have the support tubes cut short (@ 1/2" max). The original plans had longer tubes which caused problems on some cuttings.
You're all done building your Cheapo-Aero cloner
Happy cloning,
10k
Building a Cheapo-Aero cloning tub
The cheapo-Aero cloner is a very simple device to build.
It will perform just as well as expensive aero cloners costing hundreds of dollars. It operates on the same principle as every other aero cloner on the market, which is that the stems of the cuttings are suspended in an air space being misted by a fine spray of tiny flying water droplets.
Some aero cloner variations...
Some aero cloners work by way of the water being sprayed thru fine mist sprayheads by a water pump, others like the Rainforest cloner work by a spinning rotor which flings small water specs at the stems. There are even cloners on the market which use ultrasonic humidifier fog being pumped thru a chamber holding the stems.
The cheapo-aero works on the "bubbling bucket" principle, where tiny water droplets are created by the action of the air bubbles bursting at the water surface, sending a mist of water flying thru the open air space above the waterline where the stems are located.
I named it "Cheapo-Aero" because it is a cheap and simple alternative to the more complicated water pumped thru sprayers type aero cloner tubs. Ok, lets do it...
The materials list: (clockwise from top left)
One - good quality dual outlet airpump. I recommend the whisper 20/60 or the pulsar four. both are @ $20.00
One - cheap pull up tripper type timer about @ $5.00, please dont try aero cloning without the timer, it is critical imho for fast rooting.
A short length of 1/2" rubber fuel line or vynil tubing.
Fishtank airline or (preferred) some soft flexible black vynil drip line for the air bubblers.
One - Rubbermaid roughneck 1 gallon tub with lid @ $1.00
Two - aquaculture "bubble curtain" 10" bubble wands. @ $3.50 each
Assembly tools: drill bit(s), sharp box cutter knife, drip line punch and coupler fittings (optional).
One - tube of Goop brand plumbers adhesive @ $4.00
One - Spray can of Plasti-Dip brand "Spray-On" black rubber coating @ $6.00
One - 7-1/2 watt fishbowl heater. Walmart @ $6.00
AF has great luck using the cheap heater. However, please note that the small heater has no thermostatic control, depending on your room temperature, it may need to be connected to a timer and monitored to be certain that you dont overheat the water. So, if you can find a fully submersible thermostatic controlled heater that will fit in the tub without getting in the way of the air bubbles, I highly recommend doing so. There are several on the market which will mount along the bottom of the tub, parallel to the bubble curtains, use 25 watts or smaller size. You can also use use a thermostat controlled heating mat or place the entire cloner tub in a larger tray of water with an aquarium heater if you have a submirsible unit which is too large to fit in your tub.
The bubble curtains...
The Aqua Tech brand "bubble curtain" or equivalent are the only bubble device I'd recommend for bubble cloning. They are the least restrictive to pump air thru, and because of their hollow tubular design they produce a very uniform bubble coverage thruout the entire length of the wand.
Cut the bubble curtains to fit the length of the tub.
Remove the end cap and cut the wand to length using a sharp box cutter or razor blade knife. Replace endcaps.
One wand or two ?
The cheapo works great with one wand or two. For this project lets use two wands. Note picture also shows the location of the little heater installed. Use a dab of goop on the heaters suction cup to hold it in place between the wands.
Glue in the wand holding clips
The suction cups provided with the bubble curtains are prone to failure, when the cups stop sticking the air wand floats to the surface and the bubbling action stops working, causing failed clones.
Pull the clips out of the suction cups and glue them in place using the Goop plumbers adhesive to the bottom of the tub. You should rough up the gluing surface by scratching it with a knife or coarse sandpaper for a better grip.
Allow the glue to dry for at least two days to be sure its fully cured.
The waterline
The rubbermaid one gallon tub has a ridge molded in about 2-1/2" from the top. This will be the waterline.
For a nice sanitary assembly, punch two dripline couplers thru about a 1/4" above the ridge for the airlines to exit the tub.
Spray on the plasti dip black rubber coating...
The tub needs to be coated to prevent light from penetrating the tub and slowing down the rooting process. Normal spray paint does not stick and is too light transparent. The plasti dip sticks to the rubbermaid very well and with two or three coats fairly thick and very light proof. Spray and dry in a very well ventilated area.
You can get away with a few layers of duct tape, or a layer of "anti-corrosion pipe wrapping tape". But, the Plasti-Dip I've found to be the best solution for light proofing and neatness.
Drill the lid for the clone support tubes
underside of lid to show hole pattern used
For small clones, the 1/4" o.d. x .170 i.d. flexible drip line works fine for support tubes, but rooted clones can be tricky to remove from small the lid holes. Note tape tabs to keep the smaller supports from falling thru the lid, and numbering to identify the clones.
Optional larger support tube holes (recommended).
Using the 1/2" tubing for support tubes makes it much easier to remove the rooted clones from the lid. Number the holes to identify the clones later on. With either size holes, the *support tubes are cut to a maximum length of 1/2" and split down one side to be able to remove the rooted clones.
*It is important to have the support tubes cut short (@ 1/2" max). The original plans had longer tubes which caused problems on some cuttings.
You're all done building your Cheapo-Aero cloner
Happy cloning,
10k
Last edited:
G
Guest
00420 for grow faq mod
hazyfontazy said:
thx hazy im up for it
but as we all know this is all cory n paste
i all so have pic's i just need to uplaod them it will take some time for sure
ps i saved them cuz my power/internet go's out and when it dose i like to read and books are boring
Last edited:
What is the real difference between Compost and Humus?
What is the real difference between Compost and Humus?
What is the real difference between Compost and Humus?
This discussion has come up many times on this site on the Soil/Compost and Organic Gardening forums. When is organic matter "compost and when is it humus?
Here are some of the responses by some of our OG experts and friends on this site. The following are just a few resonses in a recent discussion:
BILL_G:
"Humus is the stable, long lasting remnant of decaying organic material. It improves soil structure and increases water retention. It's nutritive qualities include trace elements and several important organic acids but do not include nitrogen or phosphorus"
IANN:
"Mature compost is still organic matter and can be used when your planting instructions request it. Organic matter that hasn't decayed as far as compost shouldn't normally be used directly on plants because the nutrient balance and pH can get all out of whack as it decays (too much nitrogen in fresh manure, or nitrogen depletion as woodchips decompose) and because it may still contain toxic substances (fungal diseases, weed seeds, or toxic bacteria).
You are right, humus has no nutritive value. It's also impossible to get hold of since it can't be manufactured. It also can't be produced from decaying organic matter in a reasonably pure form on any sensible timescale. Lastly, we don't know exactly what humus is chemically so while you may find stuff sold as "humus" or "humates" or something similar, its buyer beware, you really have no guarantees about what is in the bag.
Humus is good because it has extremely high absorption abilities. It can hold and release water and nutrients as needed. It also improves the physical structure of soil so that it is crumbly and aerated instead of a nasty clay mess or an arid beach."
KELLY_CASSIDY:
"A lot of confusion is created by different uses of the words "organic" and "humus."
To a scientist, an organic molecule is a molecule that contains carbon. All life is based on carbon compounds, so living and dead cells are loosely refered to as organic material, even though they also contain inorganic molecules like water. Leaves, mushrooms, trees, live rats, dead rats, fish, etc. are "organic material." "Organic gardening" is a vague term that means many things to many people. The source of the term is probably that "organic gardeners" tend to avoid adding nutrients in their inorganic form.
To a soil scientist, "humus" is the organic, non-cellular, long-lasting component of soil. It is organic because it is composed of chemicals containing carbon. It is mostly extremely stable carbon compounds with no phosphorus or nitrogen. Their stable form makes them difficult to break down by microorganisms. If humic compounds had N or P, micro-oragnisms would try harder to attack them, but since they don't, they aren't worth the effort. Humus is non-cellular because everything else in the cell breaks down and gets recycled into other organisms, leaving the humus in the soil but no longer within a cell. The term "humus" gets tossed around loosely by gardeners to mean the organic material that makes soil brownish, not all of which is humus. In nature, humus accumulates in soil because it lasts for hundreds or thousands of years. (Trivia: In a typical northern deciduous forest, most of the organic material in the forest is in the soil NOT the living trees and most of the organic material in soil is humus. That's because humus hangs around for so long.) Humus often lasts in soil until a hot fire burns through the soil.
"Compost" is a matter of location and planning. Anything living starts decomposing when it dies. You call it compost when you put it in a pile and WATCH it decompose. "
LYCOPUS:
"Compost can contain humus at any stage. Humus does not occur alone in soil. I put the following together to the best of my ability to explain the distinction...corrections welcome
In the strictest sense humus is made up of humic substances composed of Carbon, Oxygen, and Hydrogen. These include humic acids, fulvic acids, and humins. Some Nitrogen may be present but not in any significant quantity. Plants obtain those first three elements by means other than soil so "pure" humus has no significant nutritive value. Mature compost is not pure humus, it also contains carbohydrates, lipids, and amino acids, not to mention living organisms feeding on the remaining undecomposed or partially decomposed material (can't expect them to eat it all at once!). Many of these contain Nitrogen that is released gradually over time. Not all organic matter in compost will be at the same stage of decomposition at any given time.
Humus or even soil organic matter in general isn't perfect soil. There is no such thing as the perfect soil because needs of plants vary. Generally a good soil contains a combination of sand, silt, clay and organic matter. For the purposes of gardening, agriculture, and even some soil science humus is considered to be synonymous with soil organic matter. This is the non-mineral portion of soil. So when a gardener talks about adding humus to soil they mean leaf mold or compost. When scientists talk about humus they have big numbers and formulas in their heads."
deusexmachina:
"The definitional problem here is actually quite easy to resolve. It is the standard distinction between colloquial usage and scientific usage. Colloquially, if you add mature compost, or even immature compost, to soil, the resulting mix is humus. The same can be said of adding lemon juice to crushed sesame seeds, but that is a different story. When actually studying soil, however, it is important to make sure that everyone is on the same page with their definintions, and that those definitions offer enough destinctions with other terms to provide a useful purpose, or else why use them.
To this end, soil scientists break up the components of soil into categories. The portion that is the stable organic component is then refered to as humus, the portion that it is sand, clay, and related particles is silicates, the OM that is still decaying is, surprisingly, decaying organic matter. A simple way to look at this from the scientists perspective is to think of potting mix made from 1/3 peat, 1/3 compost, 1/3 sand or perlite. Peat is pretty much in its final state. It may have been that way for thousands of years, and may continue to be. Peat is humus. The compost, even if mature, is still breaking down and supplying nutrients. It is the decaying OM. The sand is the silicates.
Normal soil has these fractions mixed together to differing degrees, and to make up for local deficiencies in one or another based on the types of plants you are growing, you ammend your soil. The benefit of compost is thus two-fold. First, it has the immediate effect of adding nutrients and bacterial components that aid in soil conditioning. Second, as the seasons progress, it eventually converts to humus and increases your humus count. Thus compost, over several seasons, can often be used by itself for growing, but there are some exceptions. Cacti, for instance, will not appreciate a soil made exclusively from compost and its humic derivatives. Without significant silicates or their equivalent, they will die.
The distincion mentioned by Kelly between "organic" as used by science and "organic" as used by gardeners is another story, and a pet peeve of mine. The distinction stemmed from a long-ago disproven belief called vitalism that maintained that organic molecules, carbon compounded with other elements (just having carbon is NOT the sole criterion, else diamond would be considered organic and it is not, and so would CO2, which also isn't) HAD per se to be manufactured by living things, that organic molecules were somehow different from other chemicals by virtue of possessing a force vitae. This belief was utterly overthrown in 1828 when Friedrich Woehler published a brief paper describing the synthesis of the organic compound urea, formerly isolated from urine, from ammonium cyanate via: (NH4+)(-OHN) ---> O=C(NH2)2. This laid the ground work for the dismantling of the concept of vitalism in chemistry, but not in the popular mind, and the idea still permeates modern society and gardening lore. Chemisty then split into two branches, biochemistry, which studied the actual chemistry of life, and organic chemistry, which studied the properties and interactions of carbon compounds. When many people say "organic" they really mean "biologic". This sloppiness is important, as many highly toxic substances are "organic," and mistaken beliefs that organic compounds are safe, just because they are biological, is a natural by-product of clinging to vitalism.
So, all that being said, here is a quick primer:
Organic matter - stuff that came from biological sources (should be biological matter. Diamonds and graphite don't decompose!) This includes humus, mature compost, immature compost, freshly cut plants, live plants, etc.
Humus - (soil science) that portion of the soil that has fully broken down and is thus stable. This stability is important because it allows you to remove it from consideration in a lot of investigations, and this is why soil sciences define it this way. This, incidentally, is also why its constituents have not been subjected to rigorous scientific investigation. It is not that it is somehow mysterious or has magical properties that elude investigation, it is just that it is only recently that anyone has really bothered to think about applying modern analytical techniques to this fraction of the soil. Contrary to common belief, a large number of its constituents ARE known. Their relative proportions vary from implementation to implementation, however, and thus no simple answer is really forthcoming as to "what humus is," as it is a dynamic mix of substances. humus - (colloquially) The organic portion of the soil (you can see how this definition has use for the gardener, but is too impercise for much usefulness in an investigation of soil properties.)
Compost - organic matter in a purposeful state of partial decomposition. The purposeful part is important. Dead stuff on the ground is NOT compost, just decaying orgainc matter. It is the controlled, or semi-controlled conditions that make it compost.
Immature Compost - compost that has not undergone enough decomposition to be of maximal benefit. This definition is thus use-specific, but usually implies insufficient pathogen destruction, lack of friability, poor moisture retention, active generation of metabolic gasses. Primarily still in bacterial stage of decomposition.
Mature Compost - compost that has decomposed to the point of maximal usefulness. Usually in the fungal/actinomycete stage.
So all mature compost is organic matter, but not all organic matter is mature compost. If what you are after is soil conditinoing alone, then the terms humus and mature compost are all but interchangeable."
FIELD:
"One more important attribute of humus should be listed, in addition to improving soil structure (or texture) and water retention. Humus also has a high cation exchange capacity, which means it acts as a veritable storehouse for plant nutrients, something that can be especially important for those with sandy soils."
************************************************** ****
So what do you think? (LOL)
Happy Gardening!
Entered by CaptainCompostAL
What is the real difference between Compost and Humus?
What is the real difference between Compost and Humus?
This discussion has come up many times on this site on the Soil/Compost and Organic Gardening forums. When is organic matter "compost and when is it humus?
Here are some of the responses by some of our OG experts and friends on this site. The following are just a few resonses in a recent discussion:
BILL_G:
"Humus is the stable, long lasting remnant of decaying organic material. It improves soil structure and increases water retention. It's nutritive qualities include trace elements and several important organic acids but do not include nitrogen or phosphorus"
IANN:
"Mature compost is still organic matter and can be used when your planting instructions request it. Organic matter that hasn't decayed as far as compost shouldn't normally be used directly on plants because the nutrient balance and pH can get all out of whack as it decays (too much nitrogen in fresh manure, or nitrogen depletion as woodchips decompose) and because it may still contain toxic substances (fungal diseases, weed seeds, or toxic bacteria).
You are right, humus has no nutritive value. It's also impossible to get hold of since it can't be manufactured. It also can't be produced from decaying organic matter in a reasonably pure form on any sensible timescale. Lastly, we don't know exactly what humus is chemically so while you may find stuff sold as "humus" or "humates" or something similar, its buyer beware, you really have no guarantees about what is in the bag.
Humus is good because it has extremely high absorption abilities. It can hold and release water and nutrients as needed. It also improves the physical structure of soil so that it is crumbly and aerated instead of a nasty clay mess or an arid beach."
KELLY_CASSIDY:
"A lot of confusion is created by different uses of the words "organic" and "humus."
To a scientist, an organic molecule is a molecule that contains carbon. All life is based on carbon compounds, so living and dead cells are loosely refered to as organic material, even though they also contain inorganic molecules like water. Leaves, mushrooms, trees, live rats, dead rats, fish, etc. are "organic material." "Organic gardening" is a vague term that means many things to many people. The source of the term is probably that "organic gardeners" tend to avoid adding nutrients in their inorganic form.
To a soil scientist, "humus" is the organic, non-cellular, long-lasting component of soil. It is organic because it is composed of chemicals containing carbon. It is mostly extremely stable carbon compounds with no phosphorus or nitrogen. Their stable form makes them difficult to break down by microorganisms. If humic compounds had N or P, micro-oragnisms would try harder to attack them, but since they don't, they aren't worth the effort. Humus is non-cellular because everything else in the cell breaks down and gets recycled into other organisms, leaving the humus in the soil but no longer within a cell. The term "humus" gets tossed around loosely by gardeners to mean the organic material that makes soil brownish, not all of which is humus. In nature, humus accumulates in soil because it lasts for hundreds or thousands of years. (Trivia: In a typical northern deciduous forest, most of the organic material in the forest is in the soil NOT the living trees and most of the organic material in soil is humus. That's because humus hangs around for so long.) Humus often lasts in soil until a hot fire burns through the soil.
"Compost" is a matter of location and planning. Anything living starts decomposing when it dies. You call it compost when you put it in a pile and WATCH it decompose. "
LYCOPUS:
"Compost can contain humus at any stage. Humus does not occur alone in soil. I put the following together to the best of my ability to explain the distinction...corrections welcome
In the strictest sense humus is made up of humic substances composed of Carbon, Oxygen, and Hydrogen. These include humic acids, fulvic acids, and humins. Some Nitrogen may be present but not in any significant quantity. Plants obtain those first three elements by means other than soil so "pure" humus has no significant nutritive value. Mature compost is not pure humus, it also contains carbohydrates, lipids, and amino acids, not to mention living organisms feeding on the remaining undecomposed or partially decomposed material (can't expect them to eat it all at once!). Many of these contain Nitrogen that is released gradually over time. Not all organic matter in compost will be at the same stage of decomposition at any given time.
Humus or even soil organic matter in general isn't perfect soil. There is no such thing as the perfect soil because needs of plants vary. Generally a good soil contains a combination of sand, silt, clay and organic matter. For the purposes of gardening, agriculture, and even some soil science humus is considered to be synonymous with soil organic matter. This is the non-mineral portion of soil. So when a gardener talks about adding humus to soil they mean leaf mold or compost. When scientists talk about humus they have big numbers and formulas in their heads."
deusexmachina:
"The definitional problem here is actually quite easy to resolve. It is the standard distinction between colloquial usage and scientific usage. Colloquially, if you add mature compost, or even immature compost, to soil, the resulting mix is humus. The same can be said of adding lemon juice to crushed sesame seeds, but that is a different story. When actually studying soil, however, it is important to make sure that everyone is on the same page with their definintions, and that those definitions offer enough destinctions with other terms to provide a useful purpose, or else why use them.
To this end, soil scientists break up the components of soil into categories. The portion that is the stable organic component is then refered to as humus, the portion that it is sand, clay, and related particles is silicates, the OM that is still decaying is, surprisingly, decaying organic matter. A simple way to look at this from the scientists perspective is to think of potting mix made from 1/3 peat, 1/3 compost, 1/3 sand or perlite. Peat is pretty much in its final state. It may have been that way for thousands of years, and may continue to be. Peat is humus. The compost, even if mature, is still breaking down and supplying nutrients. It is the decaying OM. The sand is the silicates.
Normal soil has these fractions mixed together to differing degrees, and to make up for local deficiencies in one or another based on the types of plants you are growing, you ammend your soil. The benefit of compost is thus two-fold. First, it has the immediate effect of adding nutrients and bacterial components that aid in soil conditioning. Second, as the seasons progress, it eventually converts to humus and increases your humus count. Thus compost, over several seasons, can often be used by itself for growing, but there are some exceptions. Cacti, for instance, will not appreciate a soil made exclusively from compost and its humic derivatives. Without significant silicates or their equivalent, they will die.
The distincion mentioned by Kelly between "organic" as used by science and "organic" as used by gardeners is another story, and a pet peeve of mine. The distinction stemmed from a long-ago disproven belief called vitalism that maintained that organic molecules, carbon compounded with other elements (just having carbon is NOT the sole criterion, else diamond would be considered organic and it is not, and so would CO2, which also isn't) HAD per se to be manufactured by living things, that organic molecules were somehow different from other chemicals by virtue of possessing a force vitae. This belief was utterly overthrown in 1828 when Friedrich Woehler published a brief paper describing the synthesis of the organic compound urea, formerly isolated from urine, from ammonium cyanate via: (NH4+)(-OHN) ---> O=C(NH2)2. This laid the ground work for the dismantling of the concept of vitalism in chemistry, but not in the popular mind, and the idea still permeates modern society and gardening lore. Chemisty then split into two branches, biochemistry, which studied the actual chemistry of life, and organic chemistry, which studied the properties and interactions of carbon compounds. When many people say "organic" they really mean "biologic". This sloppiness is important, as many highly toxic substances are "organic," and mistaken beliefs that organic compounds are safe, just because they are biological, is a natural by-product of clinging to vitalism.
So, all that being said, here is a quick primer:
Organic matter - stuff that came from biological sources (should be biological matter. Diamonds and graphite don't decompose!) This includes humus, mature compost, immature compost, freshly cut plants, live plants, etc.
Humus - (soil science) that portion of the soil that has fully broken down and is thus stable. This stability is important because it allows you to remove it from consideration in a lot of investigations, and this is why soil sciences define it this way. This, incidentally, is also why its constituents have not been subjected to rigorous scientific investigation. It is not that it is somehow mysterious or has magical properties that elude investigation, it is just that it is only recently that anyone has really bothered to think about applying modern analytical techniques to this fraction of the soil. Contrary to common belief, a large number of its constituents ARE known. Their relative proportions vary from implementation to implementation, however, and thus no simple answer is really forthcoming as to "what humus is," as it is a dynamic mix of substances. humus - (colloquially) The organic portion of the soil (you can see how this definition has use for the gardener, but is too impercise for much usefulness in an investigation of soil properties.)
Compost - organic matter in a purposeful state of partial decomposition. The purposeful part is important. Dead stuff on the ground is NOT compost, just decaying orgainc matter. It is the controlled, or semi-controlled conditions that make it compost.
Immature Compost - compost that has not undergone enough decomposition to be of maximal benefit. This definition is thus use-specific, but usually implies insufficient pathogen destruction, lack of friability, poor moisture retention, active generation of metabolic gasses. Primarily still in bacterial stage of decomposition.
Mature Compost - compost that has decomposed to the point of maximal usefulness. Usually in the fungal/actinomycete stage.
So all mature compost is organic matter, but not all organic matter is mature compost. If what you are after is soil conditinoing alone, then the terms humus and mature compost are all but interchangeable."
FIELD:
"One more important attribute of humus should be listed, in addition to improving soil structure (or texture) and water retention. Humus also has a high cation exchange capacity, which means it acts as a veritable storehouse for plant nutrients, something that can be especially important for those with sandy soils."
************************************************** ****
So what do you think? (LOL)
Happy Gardening!
Entered by CaptainCompostAL
What is SCROG (Screen of Green)?
What is SCROG (Screen of Green)?
Contributed by SCW:
This article is intended to provide information for new growers using the "ScrOG" or "Screen of Green" method in mini or micro cabinets under small HPS lights, in the range of 70 to 250 watts. I won't discuss the application at 400, 600 and 1000 watts, as that's outside the scope of my experience. See the "links" post below for further materials regarding 400 watt and other scrogs.
Small HPS lights
Small HPS lights are perfect for growing cannabis in restricted space conditions, as they produce the most light from a given amount of electricity of any suitable lamp for cultivation, and produce a spectrum that is favorable for flower growth. The spectrum is not the best for vegetative growth, but that isn't really important to scrog growing, as the vegetative period is so short. Lights as small as 35 watts are available by stripping components from security lights commonly available at discount hardware stores. 250 watt lights can produce as much per foot in scrog conditions as 1000 watt lights in room growing. A single 70 watt lightcan produce enough for an average pot smoker in a space as small as 1 sq. ft. MH lights are available in small sizes, but they produce less light and more heat than their HPS counterparts, and heat is an important consideration in cabinet-style growing. Regarding fluorescents, the light to heat ratio is even worse, and I am not aware of any situation in micro and mini growing where I would favor them over small HPS lights.
Note that these lights are quite weak compared to 400, 600 or 1000 watt lights used in production growing. Intensity means that the light can be father away from the plant and still be bright enough at the bud surface to produce. Intensity is necessary for tight bud formation.
To get the most out of a small HPS light, you must keep the bud sites within the productive range of the bulb, a lopsided sphere extending out from the lamp source. For a 250 watt light, that circle of light extends out about 20" from the lamp. For a 70 watt light, the maximum distance is apparently around 8" (per chthonic, who has experience with the lights). A group of tall, skinny plants under such a light would only be properly lit at the very tops of the plants, leaving the bottom parts shaded out and in a low intensity light field, producing small, lightweight buds at best.
Ideally you would like all the buds within that magic circle of light intensity, and you would like that sphere of light completely filled with buds. How can that be accomplished?
The scrog method
The essential detail of the scrog method is a screen, usually poultry netting, typically suspended between the planting medium and the lamp. The plants grow up to the screen and then are "trained" under the screen, resulting in a flat table of plant growth, a field rather than a forest. Because all the buds are growing at the same height, it is possible to get all the growth within the effective circle of light from the lamp, maximizing production from the space. It's really that simple.
Well, nothing new under the sun, the method has been used for years. In modern terms, the method was first popularized on the internet by the work of pH on the usenet group Alt Drugs Pot Cultivation, or "ADPC" for short. You can access ADPC from several web-based sources, and pH still posts there regularly. But the method as initially used by pH was designed to tweak production from a large area under fluorescent lights, like the "multi-shelf" method explained in his article on N.P. Kaye's Lycaeum site. N.P. Kaye is in fact credited with the term "screen of green", which pH shortened to "ScrOG".
I am aware of a least one grower who used scrog and HID lights before that time, based on a mention in Robert Clarke's book "Marijuana Botany", which was also a source for pH. But most work involving scrog and HID lights is quite recent. It is noted by pH that the first "yield-o-rama" post for HID scrog was in July of 1997. I became aware of the method from a medical grower in the final days of the Hemp B.C. boards, Savapalet, a posting buddy of Aeric 77.
Before discussing the method in detail, let's explore the other alternative for small HPS lights, the plantlet sea of green method.
Sea of green
The plantlet sea of green method was developed to maximize the speed of cannabis growing in limited height situations. In a typical sea of green setup of this type, clones are planted at densities as high as 9 per sq. ft. Within a short time after being established, the lights are switched to a 12 hour dark period. What happens to the planted clone?
The clone could just sit there, stretch a bit under the light regime, and flower, producing a tiny little bud with a couple of seeds. But that rarely, if ever, happens. Instead the clone takes off in a rush of growth, forming a woody main stem and branches. If the plant is suitable for sea of green growing, it will stop short of the lights and flower. Most indica dominated plants stop short enough to be grown using this method. That process is at the heart of the sea of green method, as it results in the smallest possible plant flowering in the quickest possible time.
Why does the clone act in this manner? The actual process is subject to debate. Your author suspects that the clone reads the light switch as fall, and has a mechanism that recognizes that it's too small to produce seed. So the clone goes into a furious growth mode that stops when the plant reaches a minimum height set within its genetic software, and then flowers. Others argue that the clone's response is just a variation on the normal stretching process that happens when flowering is forced in any size plant. For purposes of the discussion here, it doesn't really matter why the response occurs, just that you can rely on it.
The problem with the sea of green method under small HPS lamps is that it produces a number of small spikes under the lamp, a forest rather than a field. The plants crowd each other out and shade the lower portions, which in any event are too far from the light source. As we discussed above, tall and skinny is not productive under a small light. I grew initially using this method, based on books and magazines that I read before designing my 250 watt system, and it worked well for many years, yielding just over 1 oz. per ft. Not bad, but it can be so much better.
Note that in the mid-90's, the term "sea of green" started being applied to much larger plants and grows, even multiple 1000 watt installations over room-sized grow tables, with 3 foot plants spaced at one per foot. It seems the original meaning of the term, the SSSC plantlet method, has been almost forgotten.
Basic flat, fast scrog
The screen method used by pH relied on a long vegetative period for the plants to cover a large area of screen held close to a series of fluorescent tubes. The method I will describe here uses the same sort of growth process that occurs in a sea of green plant, and is very fast. The screen should be set about 8-12" above the planting medium, if possible. There are two purposes for that gap. First, you have to get your hands underneath the screen in order to handle the plant shoots and to remove excess growth shaded out under the screen. Second, there needs to be sufficient space for the plant to branch. Branching is essential to scrog. I prefer a space of about 10" for a 250 watt light, but some growers prefer shorter gaps for smaller lights, as little as 4-6".
Note that the screen does not have to be absolutely flat, and there are good arguments for dishing the screen to match the curvature of the light field. I don't radically dish my screen, but I do tie down the middle of the screen to prevent the screen from being pushed up, which would be counter-productive.
The clones are set under the screen at a density of about 1 plant per sq. ft. Experience in using the method with various types of plants may result in more or fewer plants, but 1 per ft. is a good starting point. Note that plant density is much lower than for plantlet-method sea of green. That means fewer clones to manage and fewer plants to be holding in a bust, a factor in sentencing guidelines.
Why clones, by the way? By the time you find out which plants are male and female from seed, it would be impossible to extract the males from the foliage wound into the screen and fill in the gaps with female shoots, without a real mess on your hands. Seed plants also waste several inches of height before a mature stem section is reached from which branching can begin, whereas clones branch right from the medium. Height control is typically a limiting factor in cabinet growing. With female seeds it may be possible to grow a predictable scrog by raising the screen height, making up for the wasted stem length. Seed plants may react differently to forcing as well. I have no experience growing from seed.
The clones are established and kicked into vegetative growth. Assuming an 8-12" gap, just about the time where the growing tips penetrate a few inches above the screen, say at two weeks, the lights are switched to a 12 hour dark period. Ideally a response similar to the sea of green method kicks in as explained above. Instead of stopping and flowering, the plants take off, filling the screen with growth. At a density of 1 plant per ft., it usually works out that the plants stop and "crown off" just as the screen is filled. It's really magic to see it happen. Note that this timing method is not universal. Different plants may require more vegetative growth, or perhaps even less. My advice is to start by forcing early, because overgrowth creates an unproductive canopy, more salad than buds.
The timing is so critical. You must be around during this period to guide the growth under the screen, and to make sure all gaps in the screen are filled, one bud site per screen hole with standard poultry netting (2 x 3 inch holes). Excess leaf growth must be removed above the screen, which usually means all the fan leaves are removed. Never mind arguments about whether fan leaves should or should not be left on plants, this is a different animal, and the rule here is, all bud sites must see the lamp in order to develop. At least in a small scrog grow, fan leaves would overwhelm the neighboring buds. Get a good sharp, clean set of pruning scissors and just leave them with the grow. You'll need them every couple of days during this period.
Training really isn't difficult. With a limber plant I usually let the shoots grow vertically above the screen and then pull them under by the stem, re-orienting the stem horizontally under the screen to line up bud sites with screen holes. You don't have to tie anything down, as the upward pressure of the stem will nail the foliage to the screen, but some growers like to tie off stems to the screen during the early phases of screen filling. Here's what one grower, Ultimate, has to say on the subject:
"I swear by twist ties and have a huge stock. They can be found just about anywhere. Purchase ties which are most flexible (wire with the smallest diameter) and coated with plastic not paper, as the paper will eventually mold.
"So why twist tie? Two reasons when training for in any screen application.
1. Pre-training. (Exact placement of main stems, growth shoots and branches)
2. Bud-training. (Bending, stem crushing/crimping, and repositioning)
"When initially induced to 12/12, the main tip/tips that hit the netting are immediately trained 90 degrees perpendicular to the netting. This allows for the light to concentrate the most productive part of the plant, forcing the most efficient production the plant can dish out. Branches under the netting are allowed some time to reach the light, but less than half will see light because you're concentrating on efficiency. The most efficient growth will occur where the main stem bends on a 90 degree and beyond, which receives the most light.
"I like to leave the ties long enough for the plant hold the shape desired. Main stem usually around the second week (give or take) , and branches will always vary. Branches coming off the main stem parallel to the netting are spread as far from the main stem as possible making for a even canopy, more bud sites per square, and controlling overall height.
"To a certain extent the buds freeze at a certain point and height/stem length slows. The canopy height is close to being established, but some plants are more vigorous than others and continue stretch beyond the rest of the crop. When bud training the longer colas are controlled by bending and tying down to the screen with twist ties. In extreme cases crushing/crimping is necessary. Moldy buds can be avoided by repositioning buds growing against each other. By using twist ties each bud can be positioned where air flows between each cola allowing efficient light dispersal within the canopy and better air flow.
"Without ties? Yield was lower. A few larger colas had to be tied down shielding smaller buds from direct light, not to mention forcing the light to be raised higher, lowering production (This can be resolved by switching to a more intense bulb) . Some branches grew buds with LONG stems between the screen and base of the cola to compete with the large colas. Hybrid vigor in some cases, or plants which tend to "stretch" more than others eventually straighten out the 90 degree angle exposing less area of the most efficient portion on the plant and eventually stretches to a point where more stem was exposed to direct light, above the screen than desired. A view from the bottom (planter to the screen) showed that efficiency could be improved."
Some plants have brittle stems, and are difficult to train. It is possible to bend a stem by crushing it lightly at the bend. So long as the structures in the plant that carry fluids aren't damaged too much, the shoot will heal and be just fine (thanks to Uncle Ben for that trick). It may also be possible to top brittle plants under the screen, so that the future growth will be in several, more slender shoots. I have no experience in training a scrog grow by topping.
The second pruning step occurs during and after the screen is filled. All growth under the screen must now be clipped off. Shaded growth quickly shrivels and dies, leaving ideal growth mediums for mold. Excess leaves and shoots should be clipped close to the stem, to avoid leaving stumps as mold sites. Robert Clarke recommends pruning away from the stem, but a lot of the standard advice has to be discarded when dealing with the special conditions of a scrog grow. The space under the screen is dark and humid, and you want as little plant material under there as possible. You will haul out buckets of leaves and excess shoots from a scrog grow, but the plants can take it. Clip away.
Subsequent pruning is really limited once the plant sets buds and stops growing. Some plants develop large leaves from the buds themselves, and if the leaves shade out neighboring bud sites, they must be removed. But that's about it. Most of the flowering time in a scrog grow the maintenance level is near zero.
If everything goes well, the extra time required for the plants to reach the screen before the flowering period is lengthened by only about two weeks. No additional time is required to fill the screen, because that time is the same used by the sea of green method to add height. The plants end up just as long, but the growth is directed horizontally. Typically a flat scrog grow ends up resembling a tropical forest canopy, with all the buds in a thick carpet extending 8-10" above the screen. The area underneath the screen contains the tree trunks that support the canopy, like piping connecting the root mat to the canopy.
Does it matter how the canopy is created? Not particularly, in my experience. There does not seem to be a lot of difference between buds that would come from sites lower on side branches from those at the actual tip of the plant. For the most part, a bud is a bud in this method. Note that the buds grown in a scrog field are each a piece of what would be a vertical cola. Each bud grows up vertically 90 degrees from the stem. You are familiar with how a cola is made up of individual bunches of flowers connected to the stem in an overlapping spiral, producing a structure that looks like a single unit. In scrog, each one of those florets matures into a small bud in their own right, typically 4-8" tall, about the size of a cigar. They aren't donkey dicks, and you won't impress the editors of High Times into featuring your buds in the centerfold, but weight is all we're interested in, not appearance. As I say, it all looks the same in the bong bowl.
How much weight? I have shown that it is possible to reach around 2 oz. per ft. with a suitable plant and enough light density. 400 watt growers have reported up to 2.4 ounces per foot in a flat scrog. In a compressed grow, using shielded lights in a box of screen, I did nearly 2.6 ounces per foot, measured by canopy area. I suspect that 75 watts per sq. ft. is about the minimum to reach that kind of production, but I don't know for sure. Understand, that the HID scrog method has not been around very long, and results are sketchy. Your results may vary, but certainly you will do better using scrog than small- scale sea of green at any light density. As an experienced plantlet-method sea of green grower, I feel comfortable stating that as a fact.
A side note regarding the measurement and reporting of production is appropriate here. For the most part, growers on the boards talk in terms of so many ounces per square foot of growing area, apologies to the metric system. Some growers feel it is more appropriate to measure production in terms of HPS watts, taking into account how efficiently the grower uses the lamp. In cabinet growing the area under cultivation cannot be expanded, and the lamps are typically very small, especially in comparison to any kind of production grow. I believe measuring output per watt would favor underlit grows, given an equal amount of space being used. Cabinet growers want to know how to produce the greatest weight of buds in the space they have, not how to conserve lamp power. Indeed, a cabinet grower should use the greatest amount of lamp power than can be cooled. Accordingly, I favor reporting production by area, but I encourage reporting a complete set of information about the grow so that light density can be taken into account by those so inclined. A "yield-o-rama" report or "YOR" is a good compromise. You can find information about the YOR on the usenet group ADPC.
What can go wrong with a flat scrog grow? The worst thing you can do is to allow the plants to grow too long. You would think that excess growth could be cut out or moved to vertical screens, but in practice I find it's difficult to recover from a badly overgrown screen. Plants that grow into and fill the screen seem to put on better bud weight than overgrown plants that are tied down and whacked back to fit.
Bog methods
Many people have been excited about the scrog method and have dreamt up all sorts of ways to expand production, myself included in the mad scientist crowd. The most common variation is the "bog" method.
Bog for "box of green", was first coined by Kunta and further developed by chthonic and several other growers. Added to the horizontal screen are vertical screens around the perimeter. Either additional plants are used at the edges, or the scrog field plants are grown longer, but either way, the additional foliage is allowed to grow up the outside of the vertical screen, taking advantage of wasted air space above the field. It also allows plants at the edge of the field to get into the circle of intensity from the bulb.
Imagine the light field as a circle sitting tangent to a horizontal line. Imagine your plant as a point on the line outside of the circle. How can the plant get inside the circle? By going up. You might equate this method to an "arena" grow in this regard. An extension on the bog theme is spiral bog, first coined by chthonic. In a spiral bog the plants are allowed to add considerable vegetation, which is trained around the box in a laid-down spiral, like this: //////. This method allows all the screen area to be densely filled with bud sites.
There are two ways to fill the vertical bog screens, as I mentioned. The first is to use more plants, which are added to the edges of the grow. When the horizontal scrog field plants are forced to flower, the plants on the edge are allowed to grow vertically like sea of green plants, the resulting growth being trained to the vertical screens. If the growth is too tall for the screens, it can be laid down at an angle, like a spiral bog grow. The advantage of this type of bog grow is reliability and speed, since the horizontal field is filled in exactly the same manner as in a normal scrog grow. The disadvantage is that the number of plants is increased to near plantlet-method sea of green levels.
The second method is use the same number of plants as in a standard scrog grow, or thereabouts, but to allow them to grow longer before forcing, around another two weeks of growth seems to be about right. This process is proving to be tricky for me, and I have so far failed to produce a fully successful extended bog grow. But other growers are having success, and the method is superior in theory. Here's what chthonic has to say about his experiences with 70 watt HPS lights:
"The quickest and most successful approach that I have found to train a bog grow is to lower the horizontal screen to within 6" of the soil and grow 2 plants per sq. ft. straight up to the vertical training screens. As it's a box driven by a 70-watt bulb, the height from the horizontal screen to the roof is only 12". The plants grow unhindered 18" from the soil up through a narrow band of the horizontal screen and onto the verticals until they touch the roof. Then they are laid down horizontally and trained in a spiral fashion /// around the vertical training screens. Spiral bog or s/bog. The cabinet is small; spiral training is the only way to direct the shoots so it just happens...
"The spiral training can go one of two ways. The entire plant can be bent over in one direction and trained along with the rest of the plants in a clockwise or counter-clockwise fashion around the vertical training screens. Or the plant can be trained as it naturally branched, trained in opposite directions along the vertical training screens."
Any method of growing should be analyzed not only for production over the space used, but also for production over time. Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose a plantlet-method sea of green method produces 1 ounce per ft., and the subject plant takes 60 days to complete its life cycle. That would be .017 oz. per ft./day. Let's suppose a scrog grow takes two weeks longer, 74 days, and produces 1 1/2 oz. That would be .020 oz. per ft/day, advantage scrog. Let's suppose than an extended bog grow takes two more weeks than a scrog grow, 88 days, and produces 2 oz. That would be .023 oz. per ft. day., advantage extended bog.
Note that it's possible to shorten the cycle by growing plants in a separate area for about three weeks and then adding them to the scrog setup. But most micro and mini growers don't have room for a separate growing area.
The "bog" term is subject to some debate. Chthonic believes that the term should be used for a box of foliage that surrounds a light held in a vertical position. Such a setup can be an outstanding way to get the most of out small security lights in the 70-100 range. But I think for a larger light, like a 150 or 250, it is necessary for the light to be in the normal horizontal position above the box. Personally, your author thinks that bog can be used as a general term to describe such a grow, and I don't really know what other term to use. Chthonic believes this type of grow can be referred to as an arena grow, but I've usually seen that term applied to free-standing plants rather than a box of screen. In my recent compressed grows using shielded lights, I coined the terms "h/bog" and "v/bog", stealing from chthonic's notation, but no one else has picked up on the lingo. Time will tell what terms become attached to these methods. Most people just use the generic term "scrog". Fair enough.
Finally, hollow screen forms do not have to be in the shape of square-cornered boxes. I've seen one grower using small HPS lights who shaped his screen into a deep bowl shape, with the light suspended in the middle. Recently I read posts on ADPC describing inverted V shapes. A single "correct" way to do this probably doesn't exist.
At this point, these methods are so new that every grow provides significant information. My advice to those new to the scrog method is to get a few fast, flat scrog grows under your belt first to get used to the process. But do add the vertical screens regardless, and capture whatever excess growth you can on the verticals, as there is no reason not to handle as much growth as you can.
V-scrog
The final extension of this concept was thought up by Kunta, and dispenses with the horizontal screen entirely. I coined the term for the method, "v-scrog", for vertical scrog. Vertical screens extend from the plant medium all the way up to the top of the growing space. The light is not in a reflector at the top of the space, but is suspended vertically in the middle of a tube of foliage, approaching Peg's Rama concept for zero-g cannabis growing. Note that the entire light field is used, not just from the bottom half of the lamp and what comes off the reflector. The foliage area is stunning. Imagine a 2 x 2 cabinet with a v-scrog screen held 4" from the walls, with a gap in the front screen for maintenance. Suppose the buds fill up about 3' of the vertical screen. We're talking 4 screens, each 4' in area (16" x 36"). Take off a couple of inches for corner overlap and a gap in the front for access, and that's nearly 14 sq. ft. of screen in the same space that supports 4' of flat screen. Even if the production per foot were half, and it would be less due to the loss of the 3D flat scrog field, you're still talking 3 ½ ounces per foot!
Can that really be possible? Not so far. I have grown two v-scrog's that were mostly failures, but I have modified the growing space to correct the problems and I will continue testing in the future. The problems so far involve the time needed to fill the screen area, which could reduce the production over time substantially, and the ability to handle the moisture load produced by the massive amount of foliage. I am also not the world's most talented trainer, but chthonic and Ultimate have done very well in tiny vertical box forms with 70 watt lamps.
Even if production isn't dramatically better than horizontal methods, v-scrog is a promising solution to growing in very restricted height conditions. It might be possible to grow a productive crop in as little as 2', maybe less. Since the light-to-foliage gap is horizontal, the only absolute vertical needs are for the plant container and a gap between the end of the downward-pointing bulb and the planting medium. Plant growth could be controlled by training it across the vertical screen, which could be any reasonable height.
Soil or hydro?
I have read every scrog post on this board, and a lot of the activity on other boards and at ADPC, and it appears that a successful scrog can be done using plants in pots as well as with more exotic hydroponic systems. But there are a few elements of scrog growing that tend to favor an active hyrdroponic setup.
Once you get past a small, flat scrog grow, it becomes very difficult to train a more complex grow by reaching into the cabinet space. I would never design a scrog system without the capability of rolling or sliding out the plant container and screens as a single unit. Obviously that means that the screen should be connected to the plant container, or possibly to a common substrate, like a plywood base. The screen does not need to be sturdy, it's just a guide, so there are many ways this could be done. But obviously it is much easier to slide out an empty container than one full of water (DWC) or soil.
Although I lack experience in using soil intensively, active hydro systems allow freshly rooted clones to have direct access to very high levels of nutrients immediately. That may mean that active hydro scrogs will evolve quicker than soil or DWC grows. I don't believe there is enough experience available to express a firm opinion on this matter.
Conclusion
Hopefully this will give you an idea of where we stand on small level scrog methods and will answer some of the basic questions. In spite of the long history of the use of screens and netting in cannabis growing, accelerated scrog growing under HID lights is a wide open field, and each new grower can add experience and ideas to the mix.
Editorial assistance by newbie. Additional input by chthonic and Ultimate as noted. Thanks to pH, Uncle Ben, Ganja Baron and Teahead for assistance and suggestions on specific topics. I should also acknowledge indirect input by Bongo and Shuzzit, as well as the other growers mentioned in the article
What is SCROG (Screen of Green)?
Contributed by SCW:
This article is intended to provide information for new growers using the "ScrOG" or "Screen of Green" method in mini or micro cabinets under small HPS lights, in the range of 70 to 250 watts. I won't discuss the application at 400, 600 and 1000 watts, as that's outside the scope of my experience. See the "links" post below for further materials regarding 400 watt and other scrogs.
Small HPS lights
Small HPS lights are perfect for growing cannabis in restricted space conditions, as they produce the most light from a given amount of electricity of any suitable lamp for cultivation, and produce a spectrum that is favorable for flower growth. The spectrum is not the best for vegetative growth, but that isn't really important to scrog growing, as the vegetative period is so short. Lights as small as 35 watts are available by stripping components from security lights commonly available at discount hardware stores. 250 watt lights can produce as much per foot in scrog conditions as 1000 watt lights in room growing. A single 70 watt lightcan produce enough for an average pot smoker in a space as small as 1 sq. ft. MH lights are available in small sizes, but they produce less light and more heat than their HPS counterparts, and heat is an important consideration in cabinet-style growing. Regarding fluorescents, the light to heat ratio is even worse, and I am not aware of any situation in micro and mini growing where I would favor them over small HPS lights.
Note that these lights are quite weak compared to 400, 600 or 1000 watt lights used in production growing. Intensity means that the light can be father away from the plant and still be bright enough at the bud surface to produce. Intensity is necessary for tight bud formation.
To get the most out of a small HPS light, you must keep the bud sites within the productive range of the bulb, a lopsided sphere extending out from the lamp source. For a 250 watt light, that circle of light extends out about 20" from the lamp. For a 70 watt light, the maximum distance is apparently around 8" (per chthonic, who has experience with the lights). A group of tall, skinny plants under such a light would only be properly lit at the very tops of the plants, leaving the bottom parts shaded out and in a low intensity light field, producing small, lightweight buds at best.
Ideally you would like all the buds within that magic circle of light intensity, and you would like that sphere of light completely filled with buds. How can that be accomplished?
The scrog method
The essential detail of the scrog method is a screen, usually poultry netting, typically suspended between the planting medium and the lamp. The plants grow up to the screen and then are "trained" under the screen, resulting in a flat table of plant growth, a field rather than a forest. Because all the buds are growing at the same height, it is possible to get all the growth within the effective circle of light from the lamp, maximizing production from the space. It's really that simple.
Well, nothing new under the sun, the method has been used for years. In modern terms, the method was first popularized on the internet by the work of pH on the usenet group Alt Drugs Pot Cultivation, or "ADPC" for short. You can access ADPC from several web-based sources, and pH still posts there regularly. But the method as initially used by pH was designed to tweak production from a large area under fluorescent lights, like the "multi-shelf" method explained in his article on N.P. Kaye's Lycaeum site. N.P. Kaye is in fact credited with the term "screen of green", which pH shortened to "ScrOG".
I am aware of a least one grower who used scrog and HID lights before that time, based on a mention in Robert Clarke's book "Marijuana Botany", which was also a source for pH. But most work involving scrog and HID lights is quite recent. It is noted by pH that the first "yield-o-rama" post for HID scrog was in July of 1997. I became aware of the method from a medical grower in the final days of the Hemp B.C. boards, Savapalet, a posting buddy of Aeric 77.
Before discussing the method in detail, let's explore the other alternative for small HPS lights, the plantlet sea of green method.
Sea of green
The plantlet sea of green method was developed to maximize the speed of cannabis growing in limited height situations. In a typical sea of green setup of this type, clones are planted at densities as high as 9 per sq. ft. Within a short time after being established, the lights are switched to a 12 hour dark period. What happens to the planted clone?
The clone could just sit there, stretch a bit under the light regime, and flower, producing a tiny little bud with a couple of seeds. But that rarely, if ever, happens. Instead the clone takes off in a rush of growth, forming a woody main stem and branches. If the plant is suitable for sea of green growing, it will stop short of the lights and flower. Most indica dominated plants stop short enough to be grown using this method. That process is at the heart of the sea of green method, as it results in the smallest possible plant flowering in the quickest possible time.
Why does the clone act in this manner? The actual process is subject to debate. Your author suspects that the clone reads the light switch as fall, and has a mechanism that recognizes that it's too small to produce seed. So the clone goes into a furious growth mode that stops when the plant reaches a minimum height set within its genetic software, and then flowers. Others argue that the clone's response is just a variation on the normal stretching process that happens when flowering is forced in any size plant. For purposes of the discussion here, it doesn't really matter why the response occurs, just that you can rely on it.
The problem with the sea of green method under small HPS lamps is that it produces a number of small spikes under the lamp, a forest rather than a field. The plants crowd each other out and shade the lower portions, which in any event are too far from the light source. As we discussed above, tall and skinny is not productive under a small light. I grew initially using this method, based on books and magazines that I read before designing my 250 watt system, and it worked well for many years, yielding just over 1 oz. per ft. Not bad, but it can be so much better.
Note that in the mid-90's, the term "sea of green" started being applied to much larger plants and grows, even multiple 1000 watt installations over room-sized grow tables, with 3 foot plants spaced at one per foot. It seems the original meaning of the term, the SSSC plantlet method, has been almost forgotten.
Basic flat, fast scrog
The screen method used by pH relied on a long vegetative period for the plants to cover a large area of screen held close to a series of fluorescent tubes. The method I will describe here uses the same sort of growth process that occurs in a sea of green plant, and is very fast. The screen should be set about 8-12" above the planting medium, if possible. There are two purposes for that gap. First, you have to get your hands underneath the screen in order to handle the plant shoots and to remove excess growth shaded out under the screen. Second, there needs to be sufficient space for the plant to branch. Branching is essential to scrog. I prefer a space of about 10" for a 250 watt light, but some growers prefer shorter gaps for smaller lights, as little as 4-6".
Note that the screen does not have to be absolutely flat, and there are good arguments for dishing the screen to match the curvature of the light field. I don't radically dish my screen, but I do tie down the middle of the screen to prevent the screen from being pushed up, which would be counter-productive.
The clones are set under the screen at a density of about 1 plant per sq. ft. Experience in using the method with various types of plants may result in more or fewer plants, but 1 per ft. is a good starting point. Note that plant density is much lower than for plantlet-method sea of green. That means fewer clones to manage and fewer plants to be holding in a bust, a factor in sentencing guidelines.
Why clones, by the way? By the time you find out which plants are male and female from seed, it would be impossible to extract the males from the foliage wound into the screen and fill in the gaps with female shoots, without a real mess on your hands. Seed plants also waste several inches of height before a mature stem section is reached from which branching can begin, whereas clones branch right from the medium. Height control is typically a limiting factor in cabinet growing. With female seeds it may be possible to grow a predictable scrog by raising the screen height, making up for the wasted stem length. Seed plants may react differently to forcing as well. I have no experience growing from seed.
The clones are established and kicked into vegetative growth. Assuming an 8-12" gap, just about the time where the growing tips penetrate a few inches above the screen, say at two weeks, the lights are switched to a 12 hour dark period. Ideally a response similar to the sea of green method kicks in as explained above. Instead of stopping and flowering, the plants take off, filling the screen with growth. At a density of 1 plant per ft., it usually works out that the plants stop and "crown off" just as the screen is filled. It's really magic to see it happen. Note that this timing method is not universal. Different plants may require more vegetative growth, or perhaps even less. My advice is to start by forcing early, because overgrowth creates an unproductive canopy, more salad than buds.
The timing is so critical. You must be around during this period to guide the growth under the screen, and to make sure all gaps in the screen are filled, one bud site per screen hole with standard poultry netting (2 x 3 inch holes). Excess leaf growth must be removed above the screen, which usually means all the fan leaves are removed. Never mind arguments about whether fan leaves should or should not be left on plants, this is a different animal, and the rule here is, all bud sites must see the lamp in order to develop. At least in a small scrog grow, fan leaves would overwhelm the neighboring buds. Get a good sharp, clean set of pruning scissors and just leave them with the grow. You'll need them every couple of days during this period.
Training really isn't difficult. With a limber plant I usually let the shoots grow vertically above the screen and then pull them under by the stem, re-orienting the stem horizontally under the screen to line up bud sites with screen holes. You don't have to tie anything down, as the upward pressure of the stem will nail the foliage to the screen, but some growers like to tie off stems to the screen during the early phases of screen filling. Here's what one grower, Ultimate, has to say on the subject:
"I swear by twist ties and have a huge stock. They can be found just about anywhere. Purchase ties which are most flexible (wire with the smallest diameter) and coated with plastic not paper, as the paper will eventually mold.
"So why twist tie? Two reasons when training for in any screen application.
1. Pre-training. (Exact placement of main stems, growth shoots and branches)
2. Bud-training. (Bending, stem crushing/crimping, and repositioning)
"When initially induced to 12/12, the main tip/tips that hit the netting are immediately trained 90 degrees perpendicular to the netting. This allows for the light to concentrate the most productive part of the plant, forcing the most efficient production the plant can dish out. Branches under the netting are allowed some time to reach the light, but less than half will see light because you're concentrating on efficiency. The most efficient growth will occur where the main stem bends on a 90 degree and beyond, which receives the most light.
"I like to leave the ties long enough for the plant hold the shape desired. Main stem usually around the second week (give or take) , and branches will always vary. Branches coming off the main stem parallel to the netting are spread as far from the main stem as possible making for a even canopy, more bud sites per square, and controlling overall height.
"To a certain extent the buds freeze at a certain point and height/stem length slows. The canopy height is close to being established, but some plants are more vigorous than others and continue stretch beyond the rest of the crop. When bud training the longer colas are controlled by bending and tying down to the screen with twist ties. In extreme cases crushing/crimping is necessary. Moldy buds can be avoided by repositioning buds growing against each other. By using twist ties each bud can be positioned where air flows between each cola allowing efficient light dispersal within the canopy and better air flow.
"Without ties? Yield was lower. A few larger colas had to be tied down shielding smaller buds from direct light, not to mention forcing the light to be raised higher, lowering production (This can be resolved by switching to a more intense bulb) . Some branches grew buds with LONG stems between the screen and base of the cola to compete with the large colas. Hybrid vigor in some cases, or plants which tend to "stretch" more than others eventually straighten out the 90 degree angle exposing less area of the most efficient portion on the plant and eventually stretches to a point where more stem was exposed to direct light, above the screen than desired. A view from the bottom (planter to the screen) showed that efficiency could be improved."
Some plants have brittle stems, and are difficult to train. It is possible to bend a stem by crushing it lightly at the bend. So long as the structures in the plant that carry fluids aren't damaged too much, the shoot will heal and be just fine (thanks to Uncle Ben for that trick). It may also be possible to top brittle plants under the screen, so that the future growth will be in several, more slender shoots. I have no experience in training a scrog grow by topping.
The second pruning step occurs during and after the screen is filled. All growth under the screen must now be clipped off. Shaded growth quickly shrivels and dies, leaving ideal growth mediums for mold. Excess leaves and shoots should be clipped close to the stem, to avoid leaving stumps as mold sites. Robert Clarke recommends pruning away from the stem, but a lot of the standard advice has to be discarded when dealing with the special conditions of a scrog grow. The space under the screen is dark and humid, and you want as little plant material under there as possible. You will haul out buckets of leaves and excess shoots from a scrog grow, but the plants can take it. Clip away.
Subsequent pruning is really limited once the plant sets buds and stops growing. Some plants develop large leaves from the buds themselves, and if the leaves shade out neighboring bud sites, they must be removed. But that's about it. Most of the flowering time in a scrog grow the maintenance level is near zero.
If everything goes well, the extra time required for the plants to reach the screen before the flowering period is lengthened by only about two weeks. No additional time is required to fill the screen, because that time is the same used by the sea of green method to add height. The plants end up just as long, but the growth is directed horizontally. Typically a flat scrog grow ends up resembling a tropical forest canopy, with all the buds in a thick carpet extending 8-10" above the screen. The area underneath the screen contains the tree trunks that support the canopy, like piping connecting the root mat to the canopy.
Does it matter how the canopy is created? Not particularly, in my experience. There does not seem to be a lot of difference between buds that would come from sites lower on side branches from those at the actual tip of the plant. For the most part, a bud is a bud in this method. Note that the buds grown in a scrog field are each a piece of what would be a vertical cola. Each bud grows up vertically 90 degrees from the stem. You are familiar with how a cola is made up of individual bunches of flowers connected to the stem in an overlapping spiral, producing a structure that looks like a single unit. In scrog, each one of those florets matures into a small bud in their own right, typically 4-8" tall, about the size of a cigar. They aren't donkey dicks, and you won't impress the editors of High Times into featuring your buds in the centerfold, but weight is all we're interested in, not appearance. As I say, it all looks the same in the bong bowl.
How much weight? I have shown that it is possible to reach around 2 oz. per ft. with a suitable plant and enough light density. 400 watt growers have reported up to 2.4 ounces per foot in a flat scrog. In a compressed grow, using shielded lights in a box of screen, I did nearly 2.6 ounces per foot, measured by canopy area. I suspect that 75 watts per sq. ft. is about the minimum to reach that kind of production, but I don't know for sure. Understand, that the HID scrog method has not been around very long, and results are sketchy. Your results may vary, but certainly you will do better using scrog than small- scale sea of green at any light density. As an experienced plantlet-method sea of green grower, I feel comfortable stating that as a fact.
A side note regarding the measurement and reporting of production is appropriate here. For the most part, growers on the boards talk in terms of so many ounces per square foot of growing area, apologies to the metric system. Some growers feel it is more appropriate to measure production in terms of HPS watts, taking into account how efficiently the grower uses the lamp. In cabinet growing the area under cultivation cannot be expanded, and the lamps are typically very small, especially in comparison to any kind of production grow. I believe measuring output per watt would favor underlit grows, given an equal amount of space being used. Cabinet growers want to know how to produce the greatest weight of buds in the space they have, not how to conserve lamp power. Indeed, a cabinet grower should use the greatest amount of lamp power than can be cooled. Accordingly, I favor reporting production by area, but I encourage reporting a complete set of information about the grow so that light density can be taken into account by those so inclined. A "yield-o-rama" report or "YOR" is a good compromise. You can find information about the YOR on the usenet group ADPC.
What can go wrong with a flat scrog grow? The worst thing you can do is to allow the plants to grow too long. You would think that excess growth could be cut out or moved to vertical screens, but in practice I find it's difficult to recover from a badly overgrown screen. Plants that grow into and fill the screen seem to put on better bud weight than overgrown plants that are tied down and whacked back to fit.
Bog methods
Many people have been excited about the scrog method and have dreamt up all sorts of ways to expand production, myself included in the mad scientist crowd. The most common variation is the "bog" method.
Bog for "box of green", was first coined by Kunta and further developed by chthonic and several other growers. Added to the horizontal screen are vertical screens around the perimeter. Either additional plants are used at the edges, or the scrog field plants are grown longer, but either way, the additional foliage is allowed to grow up the outside of the vertical screen, taking advantage of wasted air space above the field. It also allows plants at the edge of the field to get into the circle of intensity from the bulb.
Imagine the light field as a circle sitting tangent to a horizontal line. Imagine your plant as a point on the line outside of the circle. How can the plant get inside the circle? By going up. You might equate this method to an "arena" grow in this regard. An extension on the bog theme is spiral bog, first coined by chthonic. In a spiral bog the plants are allowed to add considerable vegetation, which is trained around the box in a laid-down spiral, like this: //////. This method allows all the screen area to be densely filled with bud sites.
There are two ways to fill the vertical bog screens, as I mentioned. The first is to use more plants, which are added to the edges of the grow. When the horizontal scrog field plants are forced to flower, the plants on the edge are allowed to grow vertically like sea of green plants, the resulting growth being trained to the vertical screens. If the growth is too tall for the screens, it can be laid down at an angle, like a spiral bog grow. The advantage of this type of bog grow is reliability and speed, since the horizontal field is filled in exactly the same manner as in a normal scrog grow. The disadvantage is that the number of plants is increased to near plantlet-method sea of green levels.
The second method is use the same number of plants as in a standard scrog grow, or thereabouts, but to allow them to grow longer before forcing, around another two weeks of growth seems to be about right. This process is proving to be tricky for me, and I have so far failed to produce a fully successful extended bog grow. But other growers are having success, and the method is superior in theory. Here's what chthonic has to say about his experiences with 70 watt HPS lights:
"The quickest and most successful approach that I have found to train a bog grow is to lower the horizontal screen to within 6" of the soil and grow 2 plants per sq. ft. straight up to the vertical training screens. As it's a box driven by a 70-watt bulb, the height from the horizontal screen to the roof is only 12". The plants grow unhindered 18" from the soil up through a narrow band of the horizontal screen and onto the verticals until they touch the roof. Then they are laid down horizontally and trained in a spiral fashion /// around the vertical training screens. Spiral bog or s/bog. The cabinet is small; spiral training is the only way to direct the shoots so it just happens...
"The spiral training can go one of two ways. The entire plant can be bent over in one direction and trained along with the rest of the plants in a clockwise or counter-clockwise fashion around the vertical training screens. Or the plant can be trained as it naturally branched, trained in opposite directions along the vertical training screens."
Any method of growing should be analyzed not only for production over the space used, but also for production over time. Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose a plantlet-method sea of green method produces 1 ounce per ft., and the subject plant takes 60 days to complete its life cycle. That would be .017 oz. per ft./day. Let's suppose a scrog grow takes two weeks longer, 74 days, and produces 1 1/2 oz. That would be .020 oz. per ft/day, advantage scrog. Let's suppose than an extended bog grow takes two more weeks than a scrog grow, 88 days, and produces 2 oz. That would be .023 oz. per ft. day., advantage extended bog.
Note that it's possible to shorten the cycle by growing plants in a separate area for about three weeks and then adding them to the scrog setup. But most micro and mini growers don't have room for a separate growing area.
The "bog" term is subject to some debate. Chthonic believes that the term should be used for a box of foliage that surrounds a light held in a vertical position. Such a setup can be an outstanding way to get the most of out small security lights in the 70-100 range. But I think for a larger light, like a 150 or 250, it is necessary for the light to be in the normal horizontal position above the box. Personally, your author thinks that bog can be used as a general term to describe such a grow, and I don't really know what other term to use. Chthonic believes this type of grow can be referred to as an arena grow, but I've usually seen that term applied to free-standing plants rather than a box of screen. In my recent compressed grows using shielded lights, I coined the terms "h/bog" and "v/bog", stealing from chthonic's notation, but no one else has picked up on the lingo. Time will tell what terms become attached to these methods. Most people just use the generic term "scrog". Fair enough.
Finally, hollow screen forms do not have to be in the shape of square-cornered boxes. I've seen one grower using small HPS lights who shaped his screen into a deep bowl shape, with the light suspended in the middle. Recently I read posts on ADPC describing inverted V shapes. A single "correct" way to do this probably doesn't exist.
At this point, these methods are so new that every grow provides significant information. My advice to those new to the scrog method is to get a few fast, flat scrog grows under your belt first to get used to the process. But do add the vertical screens regardless, and capture whatever excess growth you can on the verticals, as there is no reason not to handle as much growth as you can.
V-scrog
The final extension of this concept was thought up by Kunta, and dispenses with the horizontal screen entirely. I coined the term for the method, "v-scrog", for vertical scrog. Vertical screens extend from the plant medium all the way up to the top of the growing space. The light is not in a reflector at the top of the space, but is suspended vertically in the middle of a tube of foliage, approaching Peg's Rama concept for zero-g cannabis growing. Note that the entire light field is used, not just from the bottom half of the lamp and what comes off the reflector. The foliage area is stunning. Imagine a 2 x 2 cabinet with a v-scrog screen held 4" from the walls, with a gap in the front screen for maintenance. Suppose the buds fill up about 3' of the vertical screen. We're talking 4 screens, each 4' in area (16" x 36"). Take off a couple of inches for corner overlap and a gap in the front for access, and that's nearly 14 sq. ft. of screen in the same space that supports 4' of flat screen. Even if the production per foot were half, and it would be less due to the loss of the 3D flat scrog field, you're still talking 3 ½ ounces per foot!
Can that really be possible? Not so far. I have grown two v-scrog's that were mostly failures, but I have modified the growing space to correct the problems and I will continue testing in the future. The problems so far involve the time needed to fill the screen area, which could reduce the production over time substantially, and the ability to handle the moisture load produced by the massive amount of foliage. I am also not the world's most talented trainer, but chthonic and Ultimate have done very well in tiny vertical box forms with 70 watt lamps.
Even if production isn't dramatically better than horizontal methods, v-scrog is a promising solution to growing in very restricted height conditions. It might be possible to grow a productive crop in as little as 2', maybe less. Since the light-to-foliage gap is horizontal, the only absolute vertical needs are for the plant container and a gap between the end of the downward-pointing bulb and the planting medium. Plant growth could be controlled by training it across the vertical screen, which could be any reasonable height.
Soil or hydro?
I have read every scrog post on this board, and a lot of the activity on other boards and at ADPC, and it appears that a successful scrog can be done using plants in pots as well as with more exotic hydroponic systems. But there are a few elements of scrog growing that tend to favor an active hyrdroponic setup.
Once you get past a small, flat scrog grow, it becomes very difficult to train a more complex grow by reaching into the cabinet space. I would never design a scrog system without the capability of rolling or sliding out the plant container and screens as a single unit. Obviously that means that the screen should be connected to the plant container, or possibly to a common substrate, like a plywood base. The screen does not need to be sturdy, it's just a guide, so there are many ways this could be done. But obviously it is much easier to slide out an empty container than one full of water (DWC) or soil.
Although I lack experience in using soil intensively, active hydro systems allow freshly rooted clones to have direct access to very high levels of nutrients immediately. That may mean that active hydro scrogs will evolve quicker than soil or DWC grows. I don't believe there is enough experience available to express a firm opinion on this matter.
Conclusion
Hopefully this will give you an idea of where we stand on small level scrog methods and will answer some of the basic questions. In spite of the long history of the use of screens and netting in cannabis growing, accelerated scrog growing under HID lights is a wide open field, and each new grower can add experience and ideas to the mix.
Editorial assistance by newbie. Additional input by chthonic and Ultimate as noted. Thanks to pH, Uncle Ben, Ganja Baron and Teahead for assistance and suggestions on specific topics. I should also acknowledge indirect input by Bongo and Shuzzit, as well as the other growers mentioned in the article
How do I know the difference between GREENS and BROWNS?
How do I know the difference between GREENS and BROWNS?
How do I know the difference between GREENS and BROWNS?
This is a popular question among many first composters or organic gardeners. Regardless of the name, "Greens" and "Browns" are not differences in physical color. It is more technical than that. These terms are functions of the C:N ratios in all once living creatures, plant or animal.
Greens and browns are nicknames for different types of organic matter to use in composting recipes.
Greens are high in nitrogen or protein, thus organic nitrogen sources. These products help the composting microherd to grow, breed, and multiply fast in the piles, thus creating extreme internal temperatures in hot compost piles.
Browns are high in carbon or carbohydrates, thus organic carbon sources. These products supply the energy and food that mostly all soil organism need to survive. Carbons also help absorb the offensive odors and capture and help prevent most of the organic nitrogen in the piles from escaping by evaporation or leaching. Carbons are also essential in the faster formation of humus from the organic matter in a composting process.
A simple test to determine if your organic matter is a "green" or a "brown", is to wet it, and wait a few days. If it stinks, it is definitely a green. If not, it's a brown.
Normal compost has a C:N ratio ranging from 25:1 to 30:1. This is considered the origin or dividing line for all organic materials.
Any organic matter that a C:N ratio smaller than 30:1 is considered a GREEN.
Any organic matter that a C:N ratio larger than 30:1 is considered a BROWN.
Alfalfa Hay can be brown in color, but it is always a "GREEN", or "NITROGEN" source because it's C:N ratio is around 12:1.
All Leaves can change from green, to orange, or to brown in color, but they are usually always considered "BROWNS" or "CARBON" sources because their C:N is on the average from 40:1 to 80:1. Evergreen leaves are higher in carbons than most leaves. Deciduous leaves are best for composting. Oak leaves (that is fresh green oak leaves, not the dry oak leaves) are an exception. They can be classed as a GREEN and should be added as a nitrogen material (Fresh Green Oak Leaves can have a C:N ratio of 26:1).
All animal manures, grass clippings, and food scraps are "GREENS".
All sawdusts, bark mulches, papers, and other wood products are "BROWNS".
Most sugar products are considered "browns" because they have a C:N ratio near 50:1. However all aerobic microbes love sugar as an quick, easily digestible energy food. So by adding a little tea made from molasses, sugar, syrups, or flat soft drinks, to your compost piles, you will increase the microbial activity and internal heating of a compost pile.
Just because an organic material has a C:N as a green or brown doesn't mean it will always act like regular high nitrogen greens or high carbon browns. The real test is in the experience of composting it. C:N ratios are just good guidelines or starting points for determining starting points for various green-brown mixtures in the pile.
For example, egg shells have a C:N around 12:1-15:1, however they act more like browns, because they may takes several weeks to decompose in the pile, based on the total amount of nitrogen in the compost pile. Seaweed is considered a green (C:N = 19:1), however it is really more a carbohydrate because it's so high in carbon, compared to its other nutrients in its makeup.
Do a web site search on "Compost Ingredients" for a more exhautive list of composting materials and their average C:N ratios.
Happy Gardening!
Entered by CaptainCompostAL
How do I know the difference between GREENS and BROWNS?
How do I know the difference between GREENS and BROWNS?
This is a popular question among many first composters or organic gardeners. Regardless of the name, "Greens" and "Browns" are not differences in physical color. It is more technical than that. These terms are functions of the C:N ratios in all once living creatures, plant or animal.
Greens and browns are nicknames for different types of organic matter to use in composting recipes.
Greens are high in nitrogen or protein, thus organic nitrogen sources. These products help the composting microherd to grow, breed, and multiply fast in the piles, thus creating extreme internal temperatures in hot compost piles.
Browns are high in carbon or carbohydrates, thus organic carbon sources. These products supply the energy and food that mostly all soil organism need to survive. Carbons also help absorb the offensive odors and capture and help prevent most of the organic nitrogen in the piles from escaping by evaporation or leaching. Carbons are also essential in the faster formation of humus from the organic matter in a composting process.
A simple test to determine if your organic matter is a "green" or a "brown", is to wet it, and wait a few days. If it stinks, it is definitely a green. If not, it's a brown.
Normal compost has a C:N ratio ranging from 25:1 to 30:1. This is considered the origin or dividing line for all organic materials.
Any organic matter that a C:N ratio smaller than 30:1 is considered a GREEN.
Any organic matter that a C:N ratio larger than 30:1 is considered a BROWN.
Alfalfa Hay can be brown in color, but it is always a "GREEN", or "NITROGEN" source because it's C:N ratio is around 12:1.
All Leaves can change from green, to orange, or to brown in color, but they are usually always considered "BROWNS" or "CARBON" sources because their C:N is on the average from 40:1 to 80:1. Evergreen leaves are higher in carbons than most leaves. Deciduous leaves are best for composting. Oak leaves (that is fresh green oak leaves, not the dry oak leaves) are an exception. They can be classed as a GREEN and should be added as a nitrogen material (Fresh Green Oak Leaves can have a C:N ratio of 26:1).
All animal manures, grass clippings, and food scraps are "GREENS".
All sawdusts, bark mulches, papers, and other wood products are "BROWNS".
Most sugar products are considered "browns" because they have a C:N ratio near 50:1. However all aerobic microbes love sugar as an quick, easily digestible energy food. So by adding a little tea made from molasses, sugar, syrups, or flat soft drinks, to your compost piles, you will increase the microbial activity and internal heating of a compost pile.
Just because an organic material has a C:N as a green or brown doesn't mean it will always act like regular high nitrogen greens or high carbon browns. The real test is in the experience of composting it. C:N ratios are just good guidelines or starting points for determining starting points for various green-brown mixtures in the pile.
For example, egg shells have a C:N around 12:1-15:1, however they act more like browns, because they may takes several weeks to decompose in the pile, based on the total amount of nitrogen in the compost pile. Seaweed is considered a green (C:N = 19:1), however it is really more a carbohydrate because it's so high in carbon, compared to its other nutrients in its makeup.
Do a web site search on "Compost Ingredients" for a more exhautive list of composting materials and their average C:N ratios.
Happy Gardening!
Entered by CaptainCompostAL
How to translate a Non-Organic Soil Test for Organic Gardening
How to translate a Non-Organic Soil Test for Organic Gardening
How to translate a Non-Organic Soil Test for Organic Gardening
Do you ever feel alone when trying to discuss fertilizer needs or pH test results with non-organic gardeners? Well, it is difficult. How do you interpret soil needs organically, from charts that were designed for synthetic gardeners?
Here is one suggestion. Let's assume that a traditional soil test suggests that you need to add 50 lb of a 12-4-8 customized synthetic fertilizer to your soil to raise the classic NPK needs. You as an organic gardener don't want to deal with the synthetic fertilizers, but you want to build up your available soluble nutrients in your soil. Also since you are an organic gardener, you don't have to be so precise in your NPK calculations, because your soil amendments have plenty of OM in it and you are depending on the soil microherd to break down and supply the available soluble nutrients that your plants need from the existing soil and your new amendments. Also keep in mind that the normal P and K recordings usually are only the available soluble portions of P and K in the products, not the total portions of P and K. Not to mention all the trace elements in your natural soil amendments that the tradition gardeners forget about. What do you do?
CASE 1: Let's say you want to fulfill the basic N needs with blood meal (14-0-0), the P needs with bone meal (1-11-0), and the K needs with greensand (0-0-7). That means at least 14% of blood meal contains your N, approx. 11% of bone meal is your P, and approx. 7% of your greensand is K. Now to get close to 50lb of a 12-4-8 fertilizer, you need to first calculate how many pounds of NPK is in 50 lbs of 12-4-8.
That would be:
50x.12 = 6lb of N.
50x.04= 2lb of P.
50x.08= 4lb of K.
Now how much of blood meal, bone meal, and greensand does it take to equal the above amounts of NPK in lbs?
That would be for blood meal: 6lb /(.14 N) = 42.8 lb.
That would be for bone meal: 2lb /(.11 P) = 18.2 lb.
That would be for greensand meal: 4lb /(.07 K) = 57.1 lb.
Therefore 42.8 lb of blood meal for N, 18.2 lb of bone meal for P, and 57.1 lb of greensand for K, is approx. the same for NPK levels as 50 lb of 12-4-8 synthetic fertilizer.
CASE 2: How would you do the above translation with just homemade compost? Assuming most compost is between 1-1-1 and 4-4-4, let's go with an average 2-2-2 (that's 2%N, 2%P, 2%K). To get the same NPK levels as above for 50 lb of 12-4-8, here's a suggestion.
Since the 3 NPK numbers are the same for this compost example, let's calculate the largest number of the synthetic NPK, which is the 12%N portion of 12-4-8.
(6lb of 12-4-8 of N) / (.02 N in compost) = at least 300 lb of compost needed to satisfy the soil test recommendation of NPK levels of 50 lb of 12-4-8 synthetic fertilizer.
Of course these are just simple examples to help explain the vast differences in measurements between non-organic and organic gardeners. Unlike synthetic fertilizers that only stay in the soil for 1-3 months, compost keeps on working and breaking down for years, even decades!
The real truth is that contant year round composting, green manuring, and occasional natural foliar feeds like compost tea, should handle all your plant nutrient needs without being exact.
Happy Gardening!
Entered by CaptainCompostAL
How to translate a Non-Organic Soil Test for Organic Gardening
How to translate a Non-Organic Soil Test for Organic Gardening
Do you ever feel alone when trying to discuss fertilizer needs or pH test results with non-organic gardeners? Well, it is difficult. How do you interpret soil needs organically, from charts that were designed for synthetic gardeners?
Here is one suggestion. Let's assume that a traditional soil test suggests that you need to add 50 lb of a 12-4-8 customized synthetic fertilizer to your soil to raise the classic NPK needs. You as an organic gardener don't want to deal with the synthetic fertilizers, but you want to build up your available soluble nutrients in your soil. Also since you are an organic gardener, you don't have to be so precise in your NPK calculations, because your soil amendments have plenty of OM in it and you are depending on the soil microherd to break down and supply the available soluble nutrients that your plants need from the existing soil and your new amendments. Also keep in mind that the normal P and K recordings usually are only the available soluble portions of P and K in the products, not the total portions of P and K. Not to mention all the trace elements in your natural soil amendments that the tradition gardeners forget about. What do you do?
CASE 1: Let's say you want to fulfill the basic N needs with blood meal (14-0-0), the P needs with bone meal (1-11-0), and the K needs with greensand (0-0-7). That means at least 14% of blood meal contains your N, approx. 11% of bone meal is your P, and approx. 7% of your greensand is K. Now to get close to 50lb of a 12-4-8 fertilizer, you need to first calculate how many pounds of NPK is in 50 lbs of 12-4-8.
That would be:
50x.12 = 6lb of N.
50x.04= 2lb of P.
50x.08= 4lb of K.
Now how much of blood meal, bone meal, and greensand does it take to equal the above amounts of NPK in lbs?
That would be for blood meal: 6lb /(.14 N) = 42.8 lb.
That would be for bone meal: 2lb /(.11 P) = 18.2 lb.
That would be for greensand meal: 4lb /(.07 K) = 57.1 lb.
Therefore 42.8 lb of blood meal for N, 18.2 lb of bone meal for P, and 57.1 lb of greensand for K, is approx. the same for NPK levels as 50 lb of 12-4-8 synthetic fertilizer.
CASE 2: How would you do the above translation with just homemade compost? Assuming most compost is between 1-1-1 and 4-4-4, let's go with an average 2-2-2 (that's 2%N, 2%P, 2%K). To get the same NPK levels as above for 50 lb of 12-4-8, here's a suggestion.
Since the 3 NPK numbers are the same for this compost example, let's calculate the largest number of the synthetic NPK, which is the 12%N portion of 12-4-8.
(6lb of 12-4-8 of N) / (.02 N in compost) = at least 300 lb of compost needed to satisfy the soil test recommendation of NPK levels of 50 lb of 12-4-8 synthetic fertilizer.
Of course these are just simple examples to help explain the vast differences in measurements between non-organic and organic gardeners. Unlike synthetic fertilizers that only stay in the soil for 1-3 months, compost keeps on working and breaking down for years, even decades!
The real truth is that contant year round composting, green manuring, and occasional natural foliar feeds like compost tea, should handle all your plant nutrient needs without being exact.
Happy Gardening!
Entered by CaptainCompostAL
G
Guest
WELCOME TO DAWEEDKING'S CMEMORY, AND REAL BASIC, HYDROPONICS
Can we do it DaWeedKing ? Can we grow nice budds, hydroponically, real cheap, and real basic ?
Well you sure can my Smoking / Growing friend ! We can grow budds Hydroponically, extreamly cheap, in a small tight area, and with very little set-up and use of materials. After all hydroponics is as simple and as basic as supplying your plants with nutrients, and adequate lighting. Keep in mind that in this page im describing how to grow extreamly cheap and basic hydroponics. Literally bare bones. Budds grown this way can be acheived but will be small and take a while to budd. Your lighting is a key controlling factor in your speed of growth, overall time of growth, and overall growing and budding yeilds. Some type of lighting is going to be needed. For seeding and cloning we stay away from all high intensity grow lighting. These strong lights only will succeed in burning out your clones and seedlings. And to also keep this page cheap, cheap, cheap, were gonna need the cheapest lighting we can find to use. Florescents are best, and preferably with growing tube bulbs. Your plants growth will be directly associated with the size of lighting you are using. Once clones and seedlings are healthy and growing, we want to use the biggest and best light we can find. (Also see my lighting page) A plastic propogationing tray, or growing tray with a lid, can be bought at any hardware or gardening supply store, and for under $1.00. Most major department stores with a growing section, will have and carry them as well. Pictured here we are using for a rooting and growing medium, 1 inch and 4 inch "Rockwool" cubes. The pictured looser stuff is "Agrigro Horticultural Rockwool". It is essentially Rockwool but has not yet been spun into cubes and comes in a loose form and is cheap. These Rockwool items can be found at any hydroponic gardening store, or ordered from them through the internet. For seeding and rooting clones, you are best using the 1" cubes. Once roots have started showing through the cube, move them to the 4" cube. And again when rooting is apparent through the 4" cube, plant them into the "agrigro" in the tray. There are other alternatives to this Rockwool Agrigro, for rooting and planting your plants. The cubes are still best for overall hydroponic growing, but to substitute the "Agrigro" we can use, Clay pebbles, Lava rock, Small gravel, Perlite, and/or Vermiculite. The nutrients we are using are hydroponic nutrients found at a hydroponic store. Ones for the vegetive stage, and ones for the flowering stage. These peticular nutrients also come in a part A and part B form.(two bottles) These are best and the cleanest to use, and also contain all the necessary trace elements needed for healthy plants. Alternatives again, can be as simple as any fertilizer bought at any gardening, or hardware store, anywhere. Since we are not using any pumps and feeding lines here, we dont have to worry about clogging lines. To keep build-ups down and to prevent over-fertilization for occuring, we always always mix these fetilizers weak. If and when excessive build-ups of nutrients are spotted, we can move straight to plain watering for a while. (Also see my nutrients page) A bottle of Phosphoric acid to balance your waters p.h. level and a way to test it. With a P.H. balanced water level, your plants will take up all the nutrients you have made avaliable to them with your fertilizer. To high of a P.H. level your plants will not take in certain nutrients even when supplied. The same is true with a to low of a P.H. level. So balancing your waters P.H. level will increase the overall growth and flowering of your plants. But again to keep it cheap, cheap, and real basic , you can emit this supply and testing of added P.H. to your plants, they will grow. There is Phosphorous in all the fertilizers your purchase. (Also see my P.H. page) A ten litre pail, a cup, and water for the watering. Were going to hand water our plants four or five times a day. The water will flow through the roots and rooting mediums, draining back out a hole in our plastic tray to the pail. This is more commonly called a "flood and drain system" And of course you will need a plant or seed of your choice.
Once you have all of your growing materials together, we can move into the easy setup and maintanance of this simple, basic, and cheap, hydroponic system. There is nothing elaborate, or extensive to this system, simply plant and grow, with watering/feeding on regular daily intervals. Cut a small hole in one of the corners of your plastic growing tray, this will provide the hole needed for drainage. When we water, or flood over the tops of are Rockwool cubes, the nutrient rich water will travel through the plants rooting system. Out the hole we cut, and drain back into the pail or resovoir you are using. Now place your tray on a table, or simular setup, so that one end of the tray is slighty higher and leaning towards your cut hole. Place something at one end, a small block of wood or book will even do. Lift the tray on one side, thus liquid will run down to your cut drainage hole, and out to your pail. Now that are tray has a drainage hole, we plant are seeds or plant are clones. Cloning into the 1" cubes is best. After initial rooting has taken place, roots will emerge from the 1 inch cubes. We then transfer that rooted plant directly into a 4 inch cube. The 4 inch cubes add alot of stability, and smaller grown marijuana plants stand up nicely in them. Planted into only the loose medium or 1 inch cubes your plants will soon topple over. However in a later pic you can see how well marijuana can be grown, even without the loose medium but only in the 4inch cubes. So nothing left to do but mix with water are nutrients into are pail. Best way when in doubt is to follow the directions and application instructions on the product itself. Having hydroponic nutrients is a asset and following these directions is a easy one, two, three operation. But if your going to use cheaper but easier to find store bought fertilizers, make sure to mix you solution weak. These fertilizers are meant mostly for a once a week or every two week applications, and for use in soil. So for use in hydroponics we mix it real weak, half the recommended dosage. As we are going to be supplying this fertilzer in are water feedings, four or five times everyday, or everytime we water. And rememmber in your seedling and cloning stage do not use any fetilizers at all, only water and when you introduce a fertilizer for the first time, always, always, a weak dilluted mix.
So lets run this down a bit.
- We plant seeds or take clones.
- We put are plants under flourescent lighting, on a 18 hour on, to 6 hour off lighting cycle.
- We hand water are plants four or five times daily, letting the solution drain through are drain hole, and back to are pail. We DO NOT sit the cubes, or let them stay sitting in the nutrient solution. We flood it, and it drains via gravity.
- We daily check are pails P.H. levels and add, or dont add, are phosphoric acid as needed. Phosphoric acis is used as a P.H. down.
- We watch are babies grow. We get them as big as we want them to be. We begin flowering when the plants are large or small. Smaller plants mean smaller and less budds, where bigger plants means bigger and more budds.
- We move to the flowering stage by changing our lighting to a 12 hour on to 12 hour off cycle. And switch over to are flowering nutrients.
- We watch are babies grow and move into their flowering stage.
- We harvest are budds and floral clusters
- We do it all over again.
Not much to this cheap set up, and all for a minimal amount of money. As a matter a fact, let me light this doobie up here, that I have been saving for us. And lets take a look at a $money$ breakdown of everything listed above, to get yourself growing today !!! So for as little as $25.00 to $35.00 dollars you can put this into operation for you. And like anything growing patience is the key, the budds will come. They will not be gigantic, massive budds, as small plants will yeild small budds. But enough budds for a smoker to enjoy their own smokable herb, and for a meer fraction of the price, of what your paying now. From here and when money is not a problem for you, you can start to introduce new things to your little garden to kick up its production. Thats when you can worry about moving to, water pumps, air pumps, a real hydroponic planting system, high intensity lighting, different nutrients, foliar sprays, CO2, and a array of other hydroponic gardening equipment on the market today. The budds in this picture were put through their cloning and vegative stages using flourescent lighting. For their flowering period they had the benifit of 400 watt HPS lighting.
Can we do it DaWeedKing ? Can we grow nice budds, hydroponically, real cheap, and real basic ?
Well you sure can my Smoking / Growing friend ! We can grow budds Hydroponically, extreamly cheap, in a small tight area, and with very little set-up and use of materials. After all hydroponics is as simple and as basic as supplying your plants with nutrients, and adequate lighting. Keep in mind that in this page im describing how to grow extreamly cheap and basic hydroponics. Literally bare bones. Budds grown this way can be acheived but will be small and take a while to budd. Your lighting is a key controlling factor in your speed of growth, overall time of growth, and overall growing and budding yeilds. Some type of lighting is going to be needed. For seeding and cloning we stay away from all high intensity grow lighting. These strong lights only will succeed in burning out your clones and seedlings. And to also keep this page cheap, cheap, cheap, were gonna need the cheapest lighting we can find to use. Florescents are best, and preferably with growing tube bulbs. Your plants growth will be directly associated with the size of lighting you are using. Once clones and seedlings are healthy and growing, we want to use the biggest and best light we can find. (Also see my lighting page) A plastic propogationing tray, or growing tray with a lid, can be bought at any hardware or gardening supply store, and for under $1.00. Most major department stores with a growing section, will have and carry them as well. Pictured here we are using for a rooting and growing medium, 1 inch and 4 inch "Rockwool" cubes. The pictured looser stuff is "Agrigro Horticultural Rockwool". It is essentially Rockwool but has not yet been spun into cubes and comes in a loose form and is cheap. These Rockwool items can be found at any hydroponic gardening store, or ordered from them through the internet. For seeding and rooting clones, you are best using the 1" cubes. Once roots have started showing through the cube, move them to the 4" cube. And again when rooting is apparent through the 4" cube, plant them into the "agrigro" in the tray. There are other alternatives to this Rockwool Agrigro, for rooting and planting your plants. The cubes are still best for overall hydroponic growing, but to substitute the "Agrigro" we can use, Clay pebbles, Lava rock, Small gravel, Perlite, and/or Vermiculite. The nutrients we are using are hydroponic nutrients found at a hydroponic store. Ones for the vegetive stage, and ones for the flowering stage. These peticular nutrients also come in a part A and part B form.(two bottles) These are best and the cleanest to use, and also contain all the necessary trace elements needed for healthy plants. Alternatives again, can be as simple as any fertilizer bought at any gardening, or hardware store, anywhere. Since we are not using any pumps and feeding lines here, we dont have to worry about clogging lines. To keep build-ups down and to prevent over-fertilization for occuring, we always always mix these fetilizers weak. If and when excessive build-ups of nutrients are spotted, we can move straight to plain watering for a while. (Also see my nutrients page) A bottle of Phosphoric acid to balance your waters p.h. level and a way to test it. With a P.H. balanced water level, your plants will take up all the nutrients you have made avaliable to them with your fertilizer. To high of a P.H. level your plants will not take in certain nutrients even when supplied. The same is true with a to low of a P.H. level. So balancing your waters P.H. level will increase the overall growth and flowering of your plants. But again to keep it cheap, cheap, and real basic , you can emit this supply and testing of added P.H. to your plants, they will grow. There is Phosphorous in all the fertilizers your purchase. (Also see my P.H. page) A ten litre pail, a cup, and water for the watering. Were going to hand water our plants four or five times a day. The water will flow through the roots and rooting mediums, draining back out a hole in our plastic tray to the pail. This is more commonly called a "flood and drain system" And of course you will need a plant or seed of your choice.
Once you have all of your growing materials together, we can move into the easy setup and maintanance of this simple, basic, and cheap, hydroponic system. There is nothing elaborate, or extensive to this system, simply plant and grow, with watering/feeding on regular daily intervals. Cut a small hole in one of the corners of your plastic growing tray, this will provide the hole needed for drainage. When we water, or flood over the tops of are Rockwool cubes, the nutrient rich water will travel through the plants rooting system. Out the hole we cut, and drain back into the pail or resovoir you are using. Now place your tray on a table, or simular setup, so that one end of the tray is slighty higher and leaning towards your cut hole. Place something at one end, a small block of wood or book will even do. Lift the tray on one side, thus liquid will run down to your cut drainage hole, and out to your pail. Now that are tray has a drainage hole, we plant are seeds or plant are clones. Cloning into the 1" cubes is best. After initial rooting has taken place, roots will emerge from the 1 inch cubes. We then transfer that rooted plant directly into a 4 inch cube. The 4 inch cubes add alot of stability, and smaller grown marijuana plants stand up nicely in them. Planted into only the loose medium or 1 inch cubes your plants will soon topple over. However in a later pic you can see how well marijuana can be grown, even without the loose medium but only in the 4inch cubes. So nothing left to do but mix with water are nutrients into are pail. Best way when in doubt is to follow the directions and application instructions on the product itself. Having hydroponic nutrients is a asset and following these directions is a easy one, two, three operation. But if your going to use cheaper but easier to find store bought fertilizers, make sure to mix you solution weak. These fertilizers are meant mostly for a once a week or every two week applications, and for use in soil. So for use in hydroponics we mix it real weak, half the recommended dosage. As we are going to be supplying this fertilzer in are water feedings, four or five times everyday, or everytime we water. And rememmber in your seedling and cloning stage do not use any fetilizers at all, only water and when you introduce a fertilizer for the first time, always, always, a weak dilluted mix.
So lets run this down a bit.
- We plant seeds or take clones.
- We put are plants under flourescent lighting, on a 18 hour on, to 6 hour off lighting cycle.
- We hand water are plants four or five times daily, letting the solution drain through are drain hole, and back to are pail. We DO NOT sit the cubes, or let them stay sitting in the nutrient solution. We flood it, and it drains via gravity.
- We daily check are pails P.H. levels and add, or dont add, are phosphoric acid as needed. Phosphoric acis is used as a P.H. down.
- We watch are babies grow. We get them as big as we want them to be. We begin flowering when the plants are large or small. Smaller plants mean smaller and less budds, where bigger plants means bigger and more budds.
- We move to the flowering stage by changing our lighting to a 12 hour on to 12 hour off cycle. And switch over to are flowering nutrients.
- We watch are babies grow and move into their flowering stage.
- We harvest are budds and floral clusters
- We do it all over again.
Not much to this cheap set up, and all for a minimal amount of money. As a matter a fact, let me light this doobie up here, that I have been saving for us. And lets take a look at a $money$ breakdown of everything listed above, to get yourself growing today !!! So for as little as $25.00 to $35.00 dollars you can put this into operation for you. And like anything growing patience is the key, the budds will come. They will not be gigantic, massive budds, as small plants will yeild small budds. But enough budds for a smoker to enjoy their own smokable herb, and for a meer fraction of the price, of what your paying now. From here and when money is not a problem for you, you can start to introduce new things to your little garden to kick up its production. Thats when you can worry about moving to, water pumps, air pumps, a real hydroponic planting system, high intensity lighting, different nutrients, foliar sprays, CO2, and a array of other hydroponic gardening equipment on the market today. The budds in this picture were put through their cloning and vegative stages using flourescent lighting. For their flowering period they had the benifit of 400 watt HPS lighting.
Are All Animal Manures Safe for an Organic Garden ?
Are All Animal Manures Safe for an Organic Garden ?
Are All Animal Manures Safe for an Organic Garden ?
What do you do with animal manures in an organic garden?
Frequently many people ask questions about the use of animal manures in their gardening schemes. Thousands of years ago, the ancient organic farmers used animal manures as a mandatory and essential agent for soil conditioning and plant fertilization. Today many people are fearful of the use of any animal manures in gardening, due to more and more scary reports of potential diseases. Also there are less farmers today that apply animal manures in their farming techniques, than several hundred years ago. So the world is finding it harder and harder to dispose of animal manures in our society today, than several centuries ago.
So what do you do?
First of all you must understand that any type of fresh animal manure behaves a lot differently in the soil than mature compost or well aged manures. NOTE: Well aged manures act a lot like mature compost in the soil.:
1. Fresh manures are too strong and raw for most growing plants. It contains a lot of available soluble nitrogen in the form of ammonium or proteins. Most raw animal manures contain the wrong form of nitrogen and the wrong form of bacteria for gardening use, from the original animal's digestive tract. This can burn or kill plants if abused. Compost will never burn or kill plants.
2. Also animal manures by themselves are classified as "greens" or high nitrogen sources. The soil needs composted organic materials that is a blend of "browns" (high carbon materials) and "greens", in order to maximize the correct balance of soil microbial activity and the availablity of nutrients in the soil for plants. Animals manures are best incorporated in a soil building program when mixed with high carbon materials like straw, leaves, or untreated sawdust. Using more browns than greens in any animal manure based compost will also help neutralize NaCl salts via aerobic microbes faster. Using molasses products in a tea form is a even faster and better way to speed up microbial activity, growth, and internal heating in the pile, to stabilize and balance out the nutrients in the organic matter in the compost pile.
3. Fresh manures also contain too many complex undigested materials like pathogens, or NaCl salts from animal feeds, that may harm plants or soil organisms if not careful. Compost has all these things broken down and digested by aerobic microbes.
4. Many animal manures have urine mixed in it. All raw bird manure is always premixed with urine and manure. Urine contains mostly urea in it. Urea is one of the oldest, safest, and free sources of nitrogen known to man. Urea breaks down fast in the soil, the compost pile, or in a compost tea brew. Human urea alone, has a NPK ratio near 45-0-0.
Vegetarian animals like cows or horses, produce poop that is more easily digestable by aerobic microbes than say carnivorous animals like chicken or pig manure. Chicken manure is a great manure, but it is more stinky, more alkaline, and has far more available ammonium nitrogen in it, than say cow or horse manure. Some composting experts are successfully composting human manure under controlled conditions.
Both fresh human manure and chicken manures contain some heavy metals and pathogens in it. However, the metals in not an issue in composting, due to the widespread acceptability of chicken manure composting.
Many people are cautious of composting fresh pet manures like dog and cat poops. There has been some reports of fresh cat manure having ill effects on unborn children with pregnant woman.
NOTE: The main reason why most organic books and websites are strict about only composting vegetarian animal manures or plant wastes, is because the average home gardener is a passive composter. These conservative authors play it safe, so that the average composter doesn't hurt himself, or create stinky conditions that may attract pests, or disturb the neighborhood. Only an active hot composting process can totally guarantee a safe, healthy, mature compost from potentially risky materials like human manures, meat products, or other questionably high nitrogen organic materials. Keep in mind that products like bone meal, blood meal, and fish emulsion are all great acceptable natural fertilizers made from cooked meat products, under controlled composting conditions. Remember to only compost any animal manures or meat products that you feel totally comfortable with as an "experienced" composter.
Horses only digest about 1/4 of all the grass and grains they consume. Therefore horse manure is a very weedy manure.
On the other hand, cows have 4 stomachs. So their manure is more digested, and has less weed seeds in it.
************************************************** ********
Well aged animal manures are the best for all gardening tasks. If you only only have fresh manures, hot composting is definitely the answer to all these issues. However, if you hot compost any fresh animal manures to internal temperatures at or above 140 degrees F, for several days, mixed with enough high carbon materials, you can guarantee a safe, healthy, mature composted product, that has removed almost all of the potential pathogens, diseases, and weed seeds in the original animal manures.
************************************************** ********
Another option, is to bury or till in any fresh manures into the soil in the winter time before spring. This gives the manure enough time to break down, and the aerobic microbes to grow and release the humus created from the manure into the soil. However, you still got the risk of new weed seeds sprouting in the spring from the fresh manures.
In a no-till garden, you can apply any type of animal manure on top of the soil during the fall/winter season, then grow a thick legume/grain cover crop combination before spring. This will also supply nutrients to the cover crop as it grows, as well as give the soil microbes enough time to digest the manure into humus into the soil. In this method any new weed seeds are choked out or green mannured whenever the cover crop is mowed or chopped down.
Never use fresh animal manures in any aerobic tea brewing method either! Whatever pathogens, NaCl salts, or diseases in the original material will grow tremendously in the tea. It's best to use well aged compost or composted manures in any tea brew. Aerobic bacteria and fungi are the best microbes in composting and soil building that digest and destroy most disease causing bacteria. Some anaerobic bacteria is harmful to plants and soil organisms.
In conclusion, if you decide to use animal manures in your composting scheme, there are many benefits:
1. You may be able to find a free soure from a local farm, horse clinic, police department that uses horses, zoo, etc. This gives you a great free source of "greens" for your compost.
2. All animal manures are great sources of beneficial microbes to stimulate your compost piles. This increases the compost decomposition rate.
3. Animal manures really increase internal heating in hot compost piles.
4. All composts have lots of beneficial aerobic bacteria and fungi growing in it for soil building and plant fertilization. Animal manures are naturally high in actinomycetes as well as bacteria also.
5. All animal manures are rich in NPK and calcium. Therefore they usually alkaline when fresh. However, all mature composts have a near neutral pH after the organic matter has been broken down by the composting process.
6. If sawdust is mixed in the poop, you have extra potassium in the mix. Straw and hay is rich in phoshorus also.
7. All animal manures break down fast.
8. Many animal manures have urine (urea) mixed in also. This is extra nitrogen for the compost.
Under a well managed aerobic hot composting system, animal manures can still play an important part in modern natural farming as it did centuries ago.
Happy Gardening!
Entered by CaptainCompostAL
Are All Animal Manures Safe for an Organic Garden ?
Are All Animal Manures Safe for an Organic Garden ?
What do you do with animal manures in an organic garden?
Frequently many people ask questions about the use of animal manures in their gardening schemes. Thousands of years ago, the ancient organic farmers used animal manures as a mandatory and essential agent for soil conditioning and plant fertilization. Today many people are fearful of the use of any animal manures in gardening, due to more and more scary reports of potential diseases. Also there are less farmers today that apply animal manures in their farming techniques, than several hundred years ago. So the world is finding it harder and harder to dispose of animal manures in our society today, than several centuries ago.
So what do you do?
First of all you must understand that any type of fresh animal manure behaves a lot differently in the soil than mature compost or well aged manures. NOTE: Well aged manures act a lot like mature compost in the soil.:
1. Fresh manures are too strong and raw for most growing plants. It contains a lot of available soluble nitrogen in the form of ammonium or proteins. Most raw animal manures contain the wrong form of nitrogen and the wrong form of bacteria for gardening use, from the original animal's digestive tract. This can burn or kill plants if abused. Compost will never burn or kill plants.
2. Also animal manures by themselves are classified as "greens" or high nitrogen sources. The soil needs composted organic materials that is a blend of "browns" (high carbon materials) and "greens", in order to maximize the correct balance of soil microbial activity and the availablity of nutrients in the soil for plants. Animals manures are best incorporated in a soil building program when mixed with high carbon materials like straw, leaves, or untreated sawdust. Using more browns than greens in any animal manure based compost will also help neutralize NaCl salts via aerobic microbes faster. Using molasses products in a tea form is a even faster and better way to speed up microbial activity, growth, and internal heating in the pile, to stabilize and balance out the nutrients in the organic matter in the compost pile.
3. Fresh manures also contain too many complex undigested materials like pathogens, or NaCl salts from animal feeds, that may harm plants or soil organisms if not careful. Compost has all these things broken down and digested by aerobic microbes.
4. Many animal manures have urine mixed in it. All raw bird manure is always premixed with urine and manure. Urine contains mostly urea in it. Urea is one of the oldest, safest, and free sources of nitrogen known to man. Urea breaks down fast in the soil, the compost pile, or in a compost tea brew. Human urea alone, has a NPK ratio near 45-0-0.
Vegetarian animals like cows or horses, produce poop that is more easily digestable by aerobic microbes than say carnivorous animals like chicken or pig manure. Chicken manure is a great manure, but it is more stinky, more alkaline, and has far more available ammonium nitrogen in it, than say cow or horse manure. Some composting experts are successfully composting human manure under controlled conditions.
Both fresh human manure and chicken manures contain some heavy metals and pathogens in it. However, the metals in not an issue in composting, due to the widespread acceptability of chicken manure composting.
Many people are cautious of composting fresh pet manures like dog and cat poops. There has been some reports of fresh cat manure having ill effects on unborn children with pregnant woman.
NOTE: The main reason why most organic books and websites are strict about only composting vegetarian animal manures or plant wastes, is because the average home gardener is a passive composter. These conservative authors play it safe, so that the average composter doesn't hurt himself, or create stinky conditions that may attract pests, or disturb the neighborhood. Only an active hot composting process can totally guarantee a safe, healthy, mature compost from potentially risky materials like human manures, meat products, or other questionably high nitrogen organic materials. Keep in mind that products like bone meal, blood meal, and fish emulsion are all great acceptable natural fertilizers made from cooked meat products, under controlled composting conditions. Remember to only compost any animal manures or meat products that you feel totally comfortable with as an "experienced" composter.
Horses only digest about 1/4 of all the grass and grains they consume. Therefore horse manure is a very weedy manure.
On the other hand, cows have 4 stomachs. So their manure is more digested, and has less weed seeds in it.
************************************************** ********
Well aged animal manures are the best for all gardening tasks. If you only only have fresh manures, hot composting is definitely the answer to all these issues. However, if you hot compost any fresh animal manures to internal temperatures at or above 140 degrees F, for several days, mixed with enough high carbon materials, you can guarantee a safe, healthy, mature composted product, that has removed almost all of the potential pathogens, diseases, and weed seeds in the original animal manures.
************************************************** ********
Another option, is to bury or till in any fresh manures into the soil in the winter time before spring. This gives the manure enough time to break down, and the aerobic microbes to grow and release the humus created from the manure into the soil. However, you still got the risk of new weed seeds sprouting in the spring from the fresh manures.
In a no-till garden, you can apply any type of animal manure on top of the soil during the fall/winter season, then grow a thick legume/grain cover crop combination before spring. This will also supply nutrients to the cover crop as it grows, as well as give the soil microbes enough time to digest the manure into humus into the soil. In this method any new weed seeds are choked out or green mannured whenever the cover crop is mowed or chopped down.
Never use fresh animal manures in any aerobic tea brewing method either! Whatever pathogens, NaCl salts, or diseases in the original material will grow tremendously in the tea. It's best to use well aged compost or composted manures in any tea brew. Aerobic bacteria and fungi are the best microbes in composting and soil building that digest and destroy most disease causing bacteria. Some anaerobic bacteria is harmful to plants and soil organisms.
In conclusion, if you decide to use animal manures in your composting scheme, there are many benefits:
1. You may be able to find a free soure from a local farm, horse clinic, police department that uses horses, zoo, etc. This gives you a great free source of "greens" for your compost.
2. All animal manures are great sources of beneficial microbes to stimulate your compost piles. This increases the compost decomposition rate.
3. Animal manures really increase internal heating in hot compost piles.
4. All composts have lots of beneficial aerobic bacteria and fungi growing in it for soil building and plant fertilization. Animal manures are naturally high in actinomycetes as well as bacteria also.
5. All animal manures are rich in NPK and calcium. Therefore they usually alkaline when fresh. However, all mature composts have a near neutral pH after the organic matter has been broken down by the composting process.
6. If sawdust is mixed in the poop, you have extra potassium in the mix. Straw and hay is rich in phoshorus also.
7. All animal manures break down fast.
8. Many animal manures have urine (urea) mixed in also. This is extra nitrogen for the compost.
Under a well managed aerobic hot composting system, animal manures can still play an important part in modern natural farming as it did centuries ago.
Happy Gardening!
Entered by CaptainCompostAL
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