ground wire question

[McChris421]

So i am in the process of hooking up my hph-8 and had a couple of questions. I pulled the 240 outlet out of the wall to inspect the wiring. Of course i turned off the power to the house first. I dont have much electrical experience so stick with me. I saw the two lines that have power and my ground. the ground was a bare copper looking wire. is this normal and can i just hook that up to the ground in the hph-8? thanks guys

-McChris-

 

[PharmaCan]

I have no idea what an hph-8 is, but...

What you have there are two hot wires, each with 120v, and a ground. The ground can be connected to another ground, but it cannot be used as a neutral. The ground wire is a safety thing; the neutral is a circuit thing and you need a neutral if you want to use 120v circuitry/appliances.

PC

 

[SpoCannabis]

REMEMBER - BLACK IS HOT, WHITE IS NEUTRAL, GREEN (BARE COPPER) IS GROUND

 

[PharmaCan]

REMEMBER - BLACK IS HOT, WHITE IS NEUTRAL, GREEN (BARE COPPER) IS GROUND

No it's not. Read my post above. This is a 240v dryer outlet which, in this case, has no neutral.

PC

 

[SpoCannabis]

Hmm.....

 

[madpenguin]

Well, If someone was using common sense when they wired that 240v receptacle (as well as following code), then the white wire in there should have been taped black or red. So technically, SpoCannabis, you were right... :wink:

No one hardly ever bothers to re-identify conductors. Extremely aggravating IMO, not to mention very dangerous for the next guy.

 

[Bulldog11]

Technically in California you can't phase tape any wires less than #8. (meaning #8, #10, #12, #14, and so on.)

 

[PharmaCan]

Well, If someone was using common sense when they wired that 240v receptacle (as well as following code), then the white wire in there should have been taped black or red. So technically, SpoCannabis, you were right... :wink:

No one hardly ever bothers to re-identify conductors. Extremely aggravating IMO, not to mention very dangerous for the next guy.

What a stupid comment. Try hooking those wires up to a standard 120v receptacle and see what "technically right" does to whatever you've plugged in.

You've been a good source of information for quite a few people on this forum but you shouldn't let your ego affect what you post. There's no need to try to prove that you are smarter than everyone - particularly when you are wrong in a dangerous way.

PC

 

[SpoCannabis]

What a stupid comment. Try hooking those wires up to a standard 120v receptacle and see what "technically right" does to whatever you've plugged in.

PC

Have YOU actually tried this?!?! Go try it before you start calling someone out.

 

[PharmaCan]

Have YOU actually tried this?!?! Go try it before you start calling someone out.

No, but neither have I tried sticking my hand in boiling water to see if it will burn me.

Look, your post was incorrect, particularly in regard to the OP's original question. Madpenguin's statement was just plain stupid because he knows better and because someone might actually listen to what he says.

But, if you want to make an ass of yourself by trying to defend an indefensible statement, be my guest.

PC

 

[SpoCannabis]

I am not trying to defend my statement....i am talking about YOUR statement... I have a 240 RIGHT NOW wired to a 120 receptacle running my lights, on 240.... working fine

 

[PharmaCan]

I am not trying to defend my statement....i am talking about YOUR statement... I have a 240 RIGHT NOW wired to a 120 receptacle running my lights, on 240.... working fine

ROFLMMFAO - I answered a simple question trying to help the OP distinguish between a ground and a neutral because many people use those terms interchangeably. You came along with an incorrect statement about white and black wires which I corrected and that apparently bruised your sensitive ego. I'm talking about 120v circuits that need a neutral and you're rebuttal is about a 240v circuit & appliance. I'm talking about standard wiring; you're talking about non-standard use of a 120v receptacle. Plug your 120v toaster into that receptacle of yours and see what happens.

Sheesh - I need to remember my rule. Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

PC

 

[imnotcrazy]

The ONLY way that ballast hasn't burned out is because it is a multiple voltage input Digital Ballast.... If you are using a Ground from a 240V wired line as a 120V Neutral, you are PLAIN WRONG and playing a game that really shouldn't be played.

BTW, IF that is the case in California the entire state is in violation of the N.E.C. The Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) may only make the N.E.C. rules stiffer than they already exist.

 

[dawolf]

He is correct, mostly. I am an electrician by trade. dryers are usually on a 30a
Black and white are HOT, white is just neutral on an alternating current.

But to the original poster: are you cutting in on your dedicated dryer line? It would be easier and safer just to add a dedicated line from your panel. Well, maybe not Where are you setting up? In your laundry room?

No it's not. Read my post above. This is a 240v dryer outlet which, in this case, has no neutral.

PC

 

[madpenguin]

What a stupid comment. Try hooking those wires up to a standard 120v receptacle and see what "technically right" does to whatever you've plugged in.

You've been a good source of information for quite a few people on this forum but you shouldn't let your ego affect what you post. There's no need to try to prove that you are smarter than everyone - particularly when you are wrong in a dangerous way.

PC

Dude.... What in the fuck is your problem and what the fuck are you talking about? His statement was absolutely correct. Who ever wired that receptacle should have put black tape around the grounded conductor. Period. Art. 200.6 NEC. It is no longer a grounded conductor and to leave it's original markings could very well fucking kill someone.

Holy shit man... Perhaps you should go back and read my post and then promptly fuck straight off.

 

[madpenguin]

Ungrounded conductors.
Insulation on the ungrounded conductors shall be a continuous color other than white, gray and green.

Exceptions:
1. An insulated conductor that is part of a cable or flexible cord assembly and that has a white or gray finish or a finish marking with three continuous white
stripes shall be permitted to be used as an ungrounded conductor where it is permanently reidentified to indicate its use as an ungrounded conductor at all terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible. Identification shall encircle the insulation and shall be a color other than white, gray, and green.

Yes. SpoCannabis was absolutely, unequivocally 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt correct. Some dumbass (much like yourself), didn't bother to re-identify the ungrounded conductor telling who ever gets into that box that it is in fact a grounded conductor. That's a really good way to kill someone.

Your attitude doesn't surprise me since you insisted repeatedly that a GFCI receptacle and a breaker were the same things. When I politely tried to correct your statement, you blew up then as well, not to mention bringing up the whole ego thing.

I have no ego problem. None what so ever. What I do have a problem with is trolls on forums who like to rip into people they don't even know in order to make them selves feel better.

Quit your attitude dude. And while your at it, start reading peoples posts correctly instead of interpreting them however you feel like. My statement stands. Not you, or the NEC can dispute it.

 

[PharmaCan]

My oh my, talk about fragile egos. Who the hell appointed you god almighty on this forum? You give a lot of good advice, but that doesn't make you perfect.

What I said on the other thread is that the GFCI can break the circuit for the down circuit receptacles. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to say that is an incorrect statement then you have your head way too far up your ass.

In this thread, as far the circuit that the OP was talking about, the statement that the white is neutral is incorrect. You can yell and scream and cry and make as big an ass of yourself as you want, but you will never change the fact that the white wire in the circuit in question is a hot wire.

You need to get your head out of the NEC book and get some real world experience, where not everything is done exactly the way the NEC says it should be done and where quoting or defending absolutes has nothing to do with the reality of some situations. In other words, little boy, grow up!

As my final word to your egomaniacal ass, I will simply state my rule - Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

You have a nice day.

PC

 

[madpenguin]

Just a little FYI here - A GFCI receptacle is a breaker

First of all, I'm not an idiot and I know the difference between a receptacle and a breaker, having installed many thousands of both. The GFCI is/can be, for all intents and purposes, a receptacle/breaker, performing the functions of both. Let's try to keep this thread constructive and not start picking nits just to try to show who is smarter than whom.

What ever you say dude.

You are very easy to provoke, and perhaps that's one trait we share in common. Quit jumping down my ass dude. You don't even know me so quit trying to rip into me. What ever problem you have with me you need to resolve on your own because I've done nothing to warrant attitude from you or anyone on this forum. I go to GREAT lengths to provide safe and up-to-code advice when it comes to electrical wiring. I don't appreciate over sensitive people jumping my ass on a "technically correct" statement. Perhaps "generally correct" would be more to your liking?

I'll tell you this once more. Get off my ass or shit will really hit the fan. I have to deal with assholes like you every day and I don't need it from a computer screen after I get home from work on my own time. Make sense?

 

[PharmaCan]

What ever you say dude.

You are very easy to provoke, and perhaps that's one trait we share in common. Quit jumping down my ass dude. You don't even know me so quit trying to rip into me. What ever problem you have with me you need to resolve on your own because I've done nothing to warrant attitude from you or anyone on this forum. I go to GREAT lengths to provide safe and up-to-code advice when it comes to electrical wiring. I don't appreciate over sensitive people jumping my ass on a "technically correct" statement. Perhaps "generally correct" would be more to your liking?

I'll tell you this once more. Get off my ass or shit will really hit the fan. I have to deal with assholes like you every day and I don't need it from a computer screen after I get home from work on my own time. Make sense?

Oh grow up! You're the asshole who started this with your know-it-all attitude.

PC

 

[madpenguin]

Thanks for the laugh. That just diffused my whole angry stance and I owe you one for that. Again, you bring up the ego thing. Seriously, sit down and analyze this one my friend. That's many times you have brought that up.

I'm trying to help people. What don't you understand about this? There is no hidden agenda. I worry about some of you guys and your grow rooms. Plain and simple. I don't want to see you burn your house down (or your neighbors) and I don't want to see you guys behind bars.



Look.... Peace be with you friend. I have no time for negative thoughts right now and I'm sorry if I provoked them in you. On the same token, I should have known better than to let you provoke me. If you'd like, I'll just quit posting on this forum. You seem to have some deep seated issue with me and I'll concede. My free time needs to be spent recharging my chi, not loosing it to a complete stranger thru a computer screen.