Grafting to make a multistrain mother

[jyme]

tagged.
try a 45d on each side then a split on the mother graft place the daughter graft inside and mend back with scotch tape and thread best thread is bio thread like they use to do stiches with as the plant will grow around it after the plant heals around the daughter graft take the tape off this will work well.

 

[foomar]

Have you thought about something like this?

Use very similar pliers at work on woody shoots above 8 mm diameter , yet another skill made so easy and repeatable that clueless seasonal staff can do it on the cheap.

Unfortunately the key which helps hold the graft together will not shape into canna as it is simply too soft.
Could work on thick old lignified stems on mothers and will try after xmas.

A simplified squared off keyway scaled down for 4 mm stems could be made from a razor blade in a biro caseing if i had better eyesite.

A trick i have seen done with tomatoes and pells is to reinforce the butt graft with a small stainless steel needle bridgeing the joint at the centre , plant simply ignores it and can be retrieved at the end.
Plastic should work as well and possibly better.
Should work with canna if cut is taken through leaf junction where stems are solid rather than hollow.

Binned many males this year and want to come up with some repeatable way to use this wasted rootstock , not much different from toms in stem structure so it should damm well work.

 

[Rouge]

Tagged!

 

[Budley Doright]

Just for anyone trying this....


It may be beneficial to crawl before you walk....

I have a plant that Im going to dork with.....


But all I want to try with the first step is to simply sever a cutting and then try to put it back and have it survive.... the cuts will match ....


if you cant get this to work then there isnt much sense in using 2 cuts from 2 different plants....

Im using a plastic clothes pin....and one of those tiny straws

I cut the stem.... put on the piece of tiny straw....align the cuts....and then the clothes pin....

covered all with a baggy....


Its a little ghetto..... but its a hobby.....

 

[CottonMouth]

What about taking it a step further,
SOG growing style
After cutting x number of plants down in a SOG have or be ready to have enough cuttings to put on the left over root stock. I am not a botonist by any means but it is the flower that matures not the root stock right? If that were the case wouldn't be faster to put a cut right back on top of a good root system and be ready to go within about the same amout of time for the next wave of SOG plants just with a bigger root system.

As far as using a mother with multiple strains attached, would any of the traits from the root stock be passed on. If so what are the possibilities for breeding now? Strain A on Root stock B and Pollen from Strain C. Just made a three way cross in 1/2 the time, Ok far fetched but just the mind working overtime.

CM

 

[Anima]

What about taking it a step further,
SOG growing style
After cutting x number of plants down in a SOG have or be ready to have enough cuttings to put on the left over root stock. I am not a botonist by any means but it is the flower that matures not the root stock right? If that were the case wouldn't be faster to put a cut right back on top of a good root system and be ready to go within about the same amout of time for the next wave of SOG plants just with a bigger root system.

This sounds like more of a hassle than its worth... From that I've read; to form a proper graft it is going to take as long -if not longer- than rooting/vegging a new clone.

As far as using a mother with multiple strains attached, would any of the traits from the root stock be passed on. If so what are the possibilities for breeding now? Strain A on Root stock B and Pollen from Strain C. Just made a three way cross in 1/2 the time, Ok far fetched but just the mind working overtime.

CM

At first I was all "NAHHH" then I looked it up...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19407205

"Our data demonstrate that plant grafting can result in the exchange of genetic information via either large DNA pieces or entire plastid genomes. This observation of novel combinations of genetic material has implications for grafting techniques and also provides a possible path for horizontal gene transfer."

Holy horizontal gene transfer Batman!

 

[Old time lurker]

I saw a video posted in the vid's forum about this awhile back. Grower in Amsterdam had 11 strains growing on one mom. Sounds like an excellent way to avoid the hassle of plant counts and I look forward to being able to try this someday.

 

[Anima]

ok here is a pic of the approach(inarch) graft technique which is what I am going to be attempting next:

step 1 graft together as shown in left figure.
step 2 wait for graft to heal.
setp 3 make cut shown as in fig on the right.

Clones are rooted ready to be planted. I'll put them in some soil and wait till they start to take off to make the graft.

I will be trying to graft Pre98 Bubba Kush and Casey jones this time.

LETS SEE SOME PICS Burnt Rope!!

Peace and kindness
-Anima

 

[CottonMouth]

What would be the purpose of grafting that way?
Why not just keep the original roots of the original clone?
That doesn't look like the way to get a multi strain mother unless you are counting on the genes of the root stock clone to transfer something into the scion clone.

If you were to leave the original scion and the grafted scion as well then you would have a multi strain clone.

On a different note,
I tried today to put a cutting into a finished clone (one that was finished flowering). Here is how I did it. Sorry no pics, I am one of those that don't post them again sorry.

1. A clone which was in a SOG set up was finished flowering and was cut down where only 4-5 inches of the main stalk was left.
2. Using a razor a cut was made splitting the top of the stalk in the middle.
3. A cutting from a mother was taken and the end of the cutting was cut in a V shape (a wedge if you will).
4. The top of the root stock where the split was, was opened to place the wedge cutting into the slot that was cut.
5. Using waxed and soaked dental floss the wounded/grafted part was wraped fairly tight to make a good bond between the two cuts and ensuring that the entire wound was covered to stop as much air as possible from getting to it. Then it was placed in the clone box to allow the graft to take.

The result was with in 2 hours the cutting had wilted, and I though I was fooled already, but then I remembered something very important. The clone had not had not been watered in about 3 days. I hand water so after I flush for a week I dont water for three days to allow the plant to use up as much moister as it can before it gets cut down. It helps with the drying time by about a day and thats it. SO back to the cutting, it was wilted and after remembering that the root stock had not been watered in three days I figured it would be a good idea to water it. Well with in 30 mins to 1 hr the cutting was standing tall already.

Here are some things that I think will help this happen.
In flower more P and K are give to the plant, and some say that these nutes also help root a cutting more so than what N does. So any left over P should help the cutting take to the root stock. If the cutting can be grafted and ready to flower in less than 3 weeks with an already established root system it should grow and flower faster.

Ok im done rambling. I will let you know the results as things progress.

CM

 

[Anima]

What would be the purpose of grafting that way?
Why not just keep the original roots of the original clone?

Plant #'s bro....

 

[CottonMouth]

Well by day two it failed.

This was a spur of the moment thing when I tried it so I will put a little more thought into it next time.

I know what you were getting at with the plant numbers but what I was trying to say when I asked that question was
In the picture you have two clones one of each strain and when you are done you have one plant with the roots of one strain and the top of another strain. I am not sure I see the point in that, unless there is another node below the graft that will give you a shoot of the root stock strain. Does that make more sense as to why I asked that now. Just the pic was making it a little confusing.

Hope it works for ya though.

CM

 

[150wPimpin]

Well by day two it failed.

This was a spur of the moment thing when I tried it so I will put a little more thought into it next time.

I know what you were getting at with the plant numbers but what I was trying to say when I asked that question was
In the picture you have two clones one of each strain and when you are done you have one plant with the roots of one strain and the top of another strain. I am not sure I see the point in that, unless there is another node below the graft that will give you a shoot of the root stock strain. Does that make more sense as to why I asked that now. Just the pic was making it a little confusing.

Hope it works for ya though.

CM

theres more than one branch on the mother plant when he is done the mother plant will have many strains and each branch will more than likely be a diffrent strain.

 

[barth]

im new here but im def goint to try this. good looking out!

 

[big twinn]

wow great thread...i hope to see some success to look forward too!

it def would help if the final wedge shaping was done under water to seal off air...or else it will die...or so i am to believe.

 

[generalgrievous]

my buddy growing up had an apple tree in his back yard with a bunch of different kinds of apples on it.....

..inspirational thread 4 sure...

 

[Chimney]

flkgjdklfgjdlfg

 

[Irie Jack]

So how'z that technique working Anima?