Google taking a step into power metering

[indicapimp]

I don't see this as a big red flag personally. To be honest, we need some solutions like this if we all want power sent to our houses to run our toasters, computers and for too many their tv. I'm tired, very tired of the American "pioneer" view of community wait I mean humanity. The american pioneer doesn't need community. they get where they are on their own without others. This don't tax me, don't get in my biz I'm an individual is a big part of why we are in this death spiral. take a moment to think about how many people were involved in your last grow. if you think "just me" you have the flawed "pioneer spirit". How many people across the world were part of making your bulb, your hood, your pots, your original genetics you're using and all the stuff they used to make those seeds. more than you can count. At one time I did energy audits on houses and it wasn't to try and bust anyone, it was to try and make the dang place more efficient, by finding energy waste.
This google thing isn't so much about busting your little butt, its about keeping your lights on 10 years from now. if you knew how much energy is lost just in the transit of power to your home you'd realize we need to conserve. Sorry global warming is real and those who don't believe, maybe you'll be in the cold spot when the shit hits the fan and become an ice cube in time.
In our hobby, or whatever it is to you energy consumption has long been an area of security most are conscious of, stay conscious of your home usage, your fine. it will take a couple decades for this to be a concern.
I'll use lightbulbs as an example. How long have cfl's been around and we still have incandescent? Cfl's have mercury, it sucks, but cfl's are an energy saving stepping stone and will be replaced by more efficient technology. Anyone buying led lights yet for your table lamp? Didn't think so. have we outlawed incandescents, nope.
There are much more important things to worry about than your energy usage and google. Another example. Space heaters. Anyone have one?
A 10$ space heater/fan uses 1400watts when set on heat. Yup more than alot of folks here suck from the grid with their hid. I don't think they will chip your space heater that you want dirt cheap anytime soon.
If you are concerned about this, do the right thing and invest in a couple solar panels to run some of your gear with. more power plants is not the answer.
RM

Sorry You are living on Fantasy Island...Why do you think that already make items like this:

HID SMART 6, 10 & 20
Featuring Freedom Technology Circuitry, the HID Smart can double the amount of HID lighting in your garden, without needing to add additional power outlets, circuit breakers, or even additional ballasts. One ballast is used to power every two HID lamps on a 12/12 cycle extending the life of ballast by limiting cold starts.

The proprietary relay logic control used in the HID Smart is powered by a micro controller utilizing a digital signal to provide the precision needed to control the high powered relays to achieve a transition so instant that it could only be measured in nano-seconds (one millionth of a second). With over one million pre-programmed switching points over a 30-120 second span, it would take over 1300 years for the HID Smart to repeat the same sequence.

The user friendly mechanical timer provides an easy to use interface to program the micro controller without needing to fumble with buttons and special settings. Just simply set it and forget it.

Power is now distributed to your HID lighting with pinpoint accuracy delivering a constant and even signal that never powers down, leaving no footprint, no signature.

Currently the power Companies can tell the diff of a Digital and Analog at it's end point...

Another point.... is that the power company and home users can use existing power lines to transport data throughout your house and back out to a remote monitor ie, voice transmission...


Soooo too answer our current and future power consumption.... the best solution is to monitor the populace and not use our own resources available within the US Boarders? I am all about being green but I respect the Declaration of Independence just below my God and Family!!!

The Government provides nothing in my life positive....I am one of those 42% THAT ACTUALLY PAYS INTO THE SYSTEM NOT LIVES OFF OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!

HIT DAT,

 

[Retardo Motabon]

Another point.... is that the power company and home users can use existing power lines to transport data throughout your house and back out to a remote monitor ie, voice transmission...

The Government provides nothing in my life positive....I am one of those 42% THAT ACTUALLY PAYS INTO THE SYSTEM NOT LIVES OFF OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!

HIT DAT,

really, I'd like to see the proof of it. if that were so, shmucks like me wouldn't have to be contracted out to do energy audits in homes so they can be made more efficient and help homeowners lower their utility bills.
Yes you are so righteous because you pay taxes, and you also show your distain and lack of empathy for others with the "not lives off it" line.
Listen to your plants, amongst the many teachings the herb gives are sharing, opening up to others, empathy and compassion. I am no fan of government legislating morality and all the other ways it has stolen our human rights. I have seen and felt first hand the unjust suffering it causes our people and thus have made strong efforts to educate others around me and financially support groups like NORML, the ACLU, Amnesty International and others whenever possible and will continue to do so even though I still pay taxes just like you. So I "hit that", and will only pretend to take a hit next time around as it isn't something i really want to smoke.
RM

 

[indicapimp]

I understand what you are saying...I do need to tone it down towards others

here is an example/proof:
High speed data interface to the AC power line through a standard light bulb socket Document Type and Number:United States Patent 7455435
Abstract:A data receiving or transmitting device, having data receiving or transmitting capability, is coupled respectively from or to an AC power line through a standard light bulb socket. In one aspect, a data interface includes a data receiving device that may be configured for extracting data encoded for transmission or encoding data to be embedded and transmitted along the AC power line branch circuit. In another aspect a data receiving device includes a loudspeaker, an amplifier, and a data decoder coupled to the AC power line for playback of audio program material communicated to the device along the power line. The device screws into a light bulb socket for a “no-tools” installation.

I will listen to my plants...my compassion could use some work...

 

[tnt_blaster]

Data transmission through power lines is possible...

This is more technical - http://www.mestradoeletrica.ufjf.br/professores/duque/t&d2001_061.pdf

Towards the end lists a lot of drawbacks and why it probably won't see widespread use if at all.

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/bpl.htm/printable

While FEMA is wiling to allow the FCC to seek a compromise, the ARRL claims that compromise is not possible because the bandwidth needed for BPL will directly interfere with ham radio and short-wave radio transmissions. Developers of BPL say that these interference issues have been solved. Only tests and time will tell. Until then, the advancement of BPL moves forward slowly as it waits for standards and logistics to be decided by regulating bodies.

 

[Four2Zero]

They installed my smart meter this morning. Im not happy about it. Im in Nor Cal. The guy said they use a Rf signal to the nearest soon to be upgraded transformer which sends to a satelite and back to the power co... I dont see anything good about someone disecting my power usage. It is what it is. I pay the bill. This screams of big brother.

 

[hardhat22]

This is an oldish thread,but it needs resolving if only to allay my paranoia. My smart meter was installed over a year ago. The meter readers never returned from that point. This is confusing to me because I know we don't have BPL in my area yet,though it is available in 4 counties in my state. So,how are the meters getting read? And are they already tallying usage per hour ar just total usage? Phone companies cannot be sued for helping the govt with it's illegal domestic surveilance program,doesn't it stand to reason that power companys can also be held blameless if they share data without a warrent since the legal precedent is in place?

I scavenged these photos from the net somewhere.This is what the BPL components look like in Irving,Texas. I've followed every power line in my area for miles,stopping only to un-cross my eyes and I see nothing similar. We have no undue radio interference here,though,just before the DTV transition there were daily white outs where no television signal could get through the antenna. I'm not trying to cause paranoia I just want someone smarter than I to tell me how dumb I am,Lol. Get in line please.
Peace

 

[Alienate420]

I'm building a giant subterranean vaporizer beneath D.C. and it will disperse it's subversive fumes throughout the city through the subways and sewage systems in constant low levels. With the right strain, the brittle, selfish political class that enslaves us will become slowly stupefied, bloated with snack food and ripe for the bloody harvest they have so richly earned...now...I just need about 2000 tons of high grade, donate plz, thx.

 

[Fuzz420]

I always feel like somebody watching meeeeeeeee

I wouldnt trust google any farther than i can throw them.ESPECIALLY after that little chrome fiasco where they put spyware in there browser to get there big brother on

 

[Blue Dot]

 

[nephilthim]

big bother.

 

[Maj.PotHead]

[whats bad about this? yes it could be an invasion of privacy but it could also make the whole power grid more efficient,]

i'll tell you whats wrong they'll know excatly when your power peaks are and for growers indoors thats bad news. americas power grid is broken and needs to be replaced how many years is the original grid supposed to last. you can only update it so much before it becomes like rebuilding a 1960 caddy pretty but bad gass milage. googels idea is no more then a bandaid on a huge wound and a grab for the federal money available 4billion is alot

 

[FrankRizzo]

While I see the obvious drawbacks of this type of thing I see a few positives as well. I'm just curious what all the people that are against this would do to help improve the efficiency of the grid?

 

[hardhat22]

Continue the enron prosecutions.Reclaim the 70 billion that was stolen,fine them another hundred billion just before the life sentences are imposed,then take a fresh new look at it.

My concern is security,as it should be for anyone in a non medical state.This is just one more stab at security.I've become completely clean in the last few months to the point that I don't even have seed on my property.Massachussets growers are under the mandatory vaccination that enables health dept officials to walk into homes without the owners consent or knowledge,with a badge following them,of course.If this flu scam continues to be perpetrated,all states will prolly follow suit.Under pandemic 6,ALL states are under the same conditions,though I haven't heard of any states actually fully implementing the dod pandemic plans.
I don't know,I was just hoping for some talk on how to successfully get around all this without fully returning to the great outdoors.Most of the seed I have isn't made for our heat and humidity.
Peace

 

[Alienate420]

I just bought a very intimidating shotgun and a wide variety of ammunition. That's the only answer I have to the continued encroachment by the political class on everyone's freedoms and the unabated rape of the planet being enabled by the greedy and the stupid. I grew up in D.C. and I never met anyone there who wasn't an inauthentic self-serving shill or an abject dupe and both kinds exist in a mutually enabling parasitism colluding to feed off US...the populace. I've been essentially uttering a very prolix version of the now achingly trite 'wake up' kind for almost 40 years and I'm done 'debating' and I know who my enemies are...and Google is definitely one of them.

 

[green_farmer]

NOW, only yesterday we were talking over coffee and my friend read somewhere that Google has more personal information on all of us than any Government department....scary.

Gotta say this:

If global warming is, indeed, bullsh*t, well, at least it is drawing attention to the pollution electricity and other power generation creates. For every action, there is an equal reaction. If you continue shit in your own nest (earth), eventually you will be covered in it. Be it global warming or just plain toxicity in the air we breathe.

I am a indoor enthusiast and have been for many years. However, I am also keenly aware of the extra power used and continue to adapt the best I can.

To this end, (hopefully in the near future) I will be installing my own little "power generation plant" connected to the main grid (solar, wind and possibly hydro : for (1) security (2) doing my little bit for the planet, (3) to connect most to the grid to get a credit back from the power company. I also plan to have batteries and a separate system for supplementing the indoor room.

Unfortunately, I do know this option is not available for all, but IMO, it will be one of the safest (not necessarily the cheapest tho) ways to deal with these types future shocks and invasions of privacy through technology with the power company monitoring.

That all said, I do hope small gardens will not be TOO affected by this technology, for a while.

That is of course, if we make it past 2012.

BTW, here in Australia, we are already forced to buy mercury fluoro bulbs - the clear (normal) incandescents are now banned and the only ones we can buy are coloured party types.

This sux because these have now found out that these CFL bulbs emit EMF (?) radiation and are now causing health issues in the sick and elderly. It also sux because where I live, the bulbs just go into land fill and therefore are polluting not only the rubbish tip, but the ground water this town relies upon. That ground water ends up in the creeks & rivers, the ocean and ultimately everywhere.

The up side is that I can now buy these bulbs at Home Depot type places here - in much higher wattages at reasonable prices. (there is even one my local hydro shop has a 90w (?) CFL bulb that fits into my existing 600w/400w lampshade batten (that uses a small adaptor ($10) at the power point). EDIT: I've just checked and they can go up to 250w!!) My girls love these (using 24w bulbs) - and are responding really well since I started using them in abundance about 6 months ago.

Much less heat too. Much stronger than the fluoro quad (long) tubes. In fact, I'm cutting down the amount of time my 600w HPS has to run by using these to supplement (ie, 18 hours = 12 hours on 600w, 18 hours under fluoros so I have a fluoro dusk & dawn.

This experiment is still a work in progress, but results to date have been quite surprising and very encouraging. Have only tried this in veg, NOT in flower, however I do supplement heavily with fluoros whilst in flower and will start more experiments soon in this area.

No matter how many guns or ammo we have, we won't be able to stop the technology being used against us.

Not until MMJ and this industry is legal and recognised as the miracle herb it is.

We just have to get smarter and keep up with the technology and information. Thank God for ICMag and other such forums.

GF

 

[Verite]

And if you really think google is going to take off with this idea youre really high as most of you missed the most important paragraph.

.. Google is counting on others to build devices to feed data into PowerMeter technology. While it hopes to begin introducing the service in the next few months, it has not yet lined up hardware manufacturers..

Translation: Googles ponied up a website and some cheep software and is now waiting for some company to dump billions into hardware and distribution deals with cash strapped utility companies. = not gonna happen.

And if anyone bothered to research this at all you would find out the next reason this google group tree hug isnt going anywhere ..

PowerMeter depends on the use of a smart meter which is able to track electricity usage much more accurately than standard electric meters. According to Google, there are approximately 40 million smart meters in use worldwide. By early 2009, approximately 7% of US homes had a smart meter installed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_PowerMeter

When 93% out of all the homes in the US dont have a smart meter what company is going to volunteer to spend billions on the hardware just so googles two cent application can run? Simple answer .. no one.

 

[Balance]

There are several digital meter companies already in full production, many with huge growth potential. Read any stock market ticker or analysis on the smart meter industry. Itron, is a great example. $1.72 Billion dollars of smart meters sold last year. Yes they make Gas meters too.

I installed many smart meters for Malls, Commercial Properties and Industrial Parks. All of these customers paid to have it done, to reduce costs. I do not have percentages of digital/analog meters currently used, but analog meters havent been installed new in at least 6 years.

Your local power company is currently paying to reduce their costs as well. Gettin' rid of those meter-readers. It's only a matter of time.

By early 2009, approximately 7% of US homes had a smart meter installed.

When you read the Wik article, it says this quote is unconfirmed. It could be much larger for all we know.

I'm particuliarly worried becuase they can easily tell what type of load your running. We used osciliscopes to do this before. Now they'll do it right at your house. HiD Lighting leaves a distinct signature. Watch this video, and pay particular attention to the graph. They can practically tell how many times you turn on your fart fan. Sure seems like Big Brother to me.

http://www.google.org/powermeter/smarterpower.html

 

[hardhat22]

Google may not be necessary,at least,not for Southern Company.Sensus makes our meter and according to this document;

http://na.sensus.com/Module/PressRelease/PressReleaseFile/amr?id=83

they have a smart grid home area network initiative,basically allowing the power companies to help controll the sensus thermostat and appliances in the home when you reach price limits.

"Sensus’ FlexNet creates a HAN device that allows customers to adjust temperatures and air conditioning use based on the cost of electricity, which is indicated on the thermostat’s display. Customers also have the option to override the settings for special events, and they can see and adjust their thermostats when away from home on a secure site from any internet computer. And the HAI wireless Load Control Module (LCM) allows two-way control of air conditioning units, pool pumps, water heaters and other loads based on cost of energy and critical peak pricing events."

"An In-Home Display (IHD) shows the current cost of electricity, time until the next rate period,information about power outages and expected time of power restoral. It can receive and display messages from the utility, even during an outage, allowing utilities to inform their customers of the estimated restoral time and reduce call center traffic. The IHD can also transmit signals back to the utility, and can be used in future pre-pay and remote disconnect/reconnect programs."

If I understand things correctly,utilities will be offering different (higher) rates for peak usage hours as opposed to average use hours.This is already available in 4 counties here and a friend in Kentucky says he has been placed on it.A google search make it appear that sensus is basically supplying these to everyone on the planet.
Crazy chit,crazy times....
Peace
(Edit)
Our Canadian brothers need to take a look;
http://na.sensus.com/Module/PressRelease/PressReleaseFile/amr?id=84
"9 of the 12 largest Ontario utilities..."

Niagara Erie Power Alliance,
District 9, Cornerstone Hydro Electric Coalition, PowerStream, Waterloo, Kitchener, and
Cambridge. Sensus and representatives from the buying consortiums and/or individual utilities will​

now meet to sign operating agreements to begin deployment of FlexNet throughout the region

 

[stasis]

Guess the industry will go back to OUTDOOR, lol... Can;t fool the Big Bruthahs.... All will be monitored.

 

[Verite]

Maybe that shit happens in communist china but where I live leo needs a warrant before he gets to see my electric bill and my utility company isnt in the business to police its customers on how they use their juice.