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Good coco grow guide, anyone?... anyone?

O

onegreenday

Active member
Veteran
Atami B'Cuzz Coco

Atami B'Cuzz Coco

wygram said:
"To prepare the husk we first hydrate the bale in two 32 gallon containers at least overnight , and then transfer the hydrated husk and excess water to a second container that has had a large number of holes drilled into the bottom, and about six inches up the sides. After the husk drains, a steady stream of water is washed through until it appears to run clear from the container. Then the husk is again transferred back to the solid container and again covered with water with a few ounces each of Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate (Cal-Mag in our case) added at least overnight. The draining and washing procedure is repeated again using pure water, with the final rinse being extensive. At this point measurements have revealed virtually no significant leachable salts and a pH just slightly below neutral. The conditioning with calcium and magnesium is done because of the moderate Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) of the coconut husk. Sodium (Na) and Potassium (K) ions are strongly bound to the CHC. Laboratory comparative analysis of extracts of coconut husk products using distilled water versus a barium chloride solution demonstrate that as much as 2/3 of the Na and K may not be leached by water alone. What then happens is that you cation exchange calcium and magnesium for sodium and potassium in your early fertilized irrigations, creating possible calcium and magnesium deficiencies and sodium and potassium excesses. If you irrigate heavily as we recommend, the problem is quite temporary and limited. Unfortunately, it seems to be more and more common to hear about people using less extensive irrigation practices, and under these circumstances problems may arise. The addition of calcium and magnesium in the wash stages allows for cation exchange to occur then, creating a more balanced state from the start."
Click to expand...

This is like the process Atami uses on B'Cuzz Coco only Atami take it further and steam it after the cal/mag. then they rinse it and boost it with starter fert's. A rigorous process they use. Not sure if anybody treats coir fibre the way Atami do. Europe's best selling coco substrate they claim.
 
Megas

Megas

Member
Can someone sum up what cocogrowing is cause that UK link doesn't work and I found cocosoil on a website and all it says is:
Cocogro™ is aged 18 to 24 months to avoid pH and nutrient imbalances. It has optimum air to water ratio with 30% air content. Cocogro™ is fully decomposed with stable pH & EC and is flushed of excess sodium. It is inoculated with Mychorrhizae and trichoderma fungi.

sounds like nothing special?
 
O

onegreenday

Active member
Veteran
Megas said:
Can someone sum up what cocogrowing is cause that UK link doesn't work and I found cocosoil on a website and all it says is:
Cocogro™ is aged 18 to 24 months to avoid pH and nutrient imbalances. It has optimum air to water ratio with 30% air content. Cocogro™ is fully decomposed with stable pH & EC and is flushed of excess sodium. It is inoculated with Mychorrhizae and trichoderma fungi.

sounds like nothing special?
Click to expand...

American Agritech has sourced the world ’s most premium coir fiber. COCOGRO ™ has a very low salt content that is available in 34 ”double-sieved long fibers to reduce dust and give ample space within the mix. COCOGRO ™ has excellent drainage properties and can be used over a longer period of time than coir fiber with shorter fibers. With longer fibers and reduced dust, growers will experience an optimal air to water ratio, which is vital for strong root development. COCOGRO ™ is unique because it is not chemically treated like other coir fibers on the market. COCOGRO ™ is a superior coir fiber because it is aged a minimum of 18 months and has finished its decomposition stage. In addition, COCOGRO ™ is exposed to rain water from at least three monsoon seasons, which naturally washes away harmful salts out of the final product. Most other coir fibers are only 4 to 5 months old and have excessive potassium and salts and thus have to be chemically treated.

Botanicare cocogro a very nice coir product low in TDS. Low Ph.
very clean and uniform and nice fibres.

i transplanted into cocogro & Roots Organics potting soil and
big thick roots shot right to the bottom & out the holes in the pot in days. I can't wait to break open the root ball to see how the roots look..........
 
Megas

Megas

Member
onegreenday said:
American Agritech has sourced the world ’s most premium coir fiber. COCOGRO ™ has a very low salt content that is available in 34 ”double-sieved long fibers to reduce dust and give ample space within the mix. COCOGRO ™ has excellent drainage properties and can be used over a longer period of time than coir fiber with shorter fibers. With longer fibers and reduced dust, growers will experience an optimal air to water ratio, which is vital for strong root development. COCOGRO ™ is unique because it is not chemically treated like other coir fibers on the market. COCOGRO ™ is a superior coir fiber because it is aged a minimum of 18 months and has finished its decomposition stage. In addition, COCOGRO ™ is exposed to rain water from at least three monsoon seasons, which naturally washes away harmful salts out of the final product. Most other coir fibers are only 4 to 5 months old and have excessive potassium and salts and thus have to be chemically treated.

Botanicare cocogro a very nice coir product low in TDS. Low Ph.
very clean and uniform and nice fibres.

i transplanted into cocogro & Roots Organics potting soil and
big thick roots shot right to the bottom & out the holes in the pot in days. I can't wait to break open the root ball to see how the roots look..........
Click to expand...
I guess I'm still a bit confused, so is it a moss? I think the fibers thing is whats throwing me here
 
O

onegreenday

Active member
Veteran
it's the inside off the coconut between the big seed & the shell so it's fibre with
better quality of drainage than peat. there's sticky's to read & hit youtube search canna for the 3 part videos on coco fibre. it's very good...
 
S

shishkebab

Member
i dont have an ec meter. i asked the seller of the bricks and he told me what the ec is. do you think the flushing will do the trick?
 
O

onegreenday

Active member
Veteran
i think so. coco coir has a lot of K potassium inside of fibre
watch overdose. needs Nitrogen, calcium & magnesium to fill
the pores to start and balance with the K in the fibre
start off slow with nutes & work up.
 
cannaboy

cannaboy

Member
also when looking to buy a nutrient range for this substrate try and buy one that has a seperate a+b for veg and flower this way they transfer and go into flower much smoother. You can get the A+B veg for £15 and the same for bloom. 4ltrs for £30 is a lot for your money. As you should never go over an E.C of 2.0 it will last ages.... If you only clone and veg for 3 weeks maximum. Always keep a moist cultivated surface and feed with 20% run off and always check th E.C and PH of run off before throwing it.. and remember FEED ONCE WATER ONCE with PH correct water this is important if you want to see improvments overfeeding is the no 1 thing newbys do. This is the best method for hand feeding in pots to insure no toxic sals build up, and you can regulate the PH at the same time bang on makes big differences 50g per plant difference. And remember you need the grow and bloom on coco as it is inert all boosters, tonics and such are not needed to grow pungent 1 touch homegrown dutch. I use them on sick or week plants but for cheeper harvests only use a little if they need it. for a beginner canna A+B is good but iguana juice is the BEST!!!!! Healthy plants will yield massive on just water alone. happy growing
 
RiddleMeThis

RiddleMeThis

Member
Thoughts on using Botanicares COCOGRO with Technaflora's Recipe for Success kit, and following their feed schedule? I am new to Coco, and havent used this kit yet, curious if it would work...

Thanks guys
 
C

Carl Carlson

wygram said:
"To prepare the husk we first hydrate the bale in two 32 gallon containers at least overnight , and then transfer the hydrated husk and excess water to a second container that has had a large number of holes drilled into the bottom, and about six inches up the sides. After the husk drains, a steady stream of water is washed through until it appears to run clear from the container. Then the husk is again transferred back to the solid container and again covered with water with a few ounces each of Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate (Cal-Mag in our case) added at least overnight. The draining and washing procedure is repeated again using pure water, with the final rinse being extensive. At this point measurements have revealed virtually no significant leachable salts and a pH just slightly below neutral. The conditioning with calcium and magnesium is done because of the moderate Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) of the coconut husk. Sodium (Na) and Potassium (K) ions are strongly bound to the CHC. Laboratory comparative analysis of extracts of coconut husk products using distilled water versus a barium chloride solution demonstrate that as much as 2/3 of the Na and K may not be leached by water alone. What then happens is that you cation exchange calcium and magnesium for sodium and potassium in your early fertilized irrigations, creating possible calcium and magnesium deficiencies and sodium and potassium excesses. If you irrigate heavily as we recommend, the problem is quite temporary and limited. Unfortunately, it seems to be more and more common to hear about people using less extensive irrigation practices, and under these circumstances problems may arise. The addition of calcium and magnesium in the wash stages allows for cation exchange to occur then, creating a more balanced state from the start."
Click to expand...

great post. coco is not inert like rockwool, perlite or clay balls, but because of it's water and air holding property it can be used sort like a hydro medium and in hydro systems. But one cannot for instance adjust the pH of the coco on the fly by adjusting the pH of the irrigation water. And one cannot measure the pH of the coco solution that the roots are surrounded by, by measuring the runoff that is a result of feeding with nutrients...

in a coco grow, water pH is not king. One reason we know this is because of the variance in irrigation water pH used by many successful growers using coco only. 5.5, 5.6-6.2, 5.8, 5.8-6.2, 5.3-6.3, etc.

Another reason we know this is because the topic has been recently studied in labs, especially at Michigan State University by Bill Argo, Paul Fisher and a few others. They've demonstrated that the water alkalinity (buffering capacity) and the type of nitrogen (ammoniacal vs nitrate) used has a much greater affect on medium pH than does the water pH.

I've found and think most other coco growers will agree that the pH of really good coco is very stable throughout a grow. I started out growing in coco only by keeping the irrigation water pH in a range - 5.6 -6.2. But than I did one grow where it was 5.8 the whole time and that worked out fine too. Part of the reason for the confusion is that because of it's other physical properties, coco can be used in hydro systems, but it is still much more like peat in terms of pH and EC mgmt. than it is like rockwool, perlite or clay balls. The CEC of the last three is much lower if anything (?).

Instead of runoff, one should measure the pH and EC of the coco solution surrounding the roots by using the "N.C. State pour through" method, which really isn't that much different in practice accept that you test with distilled or r.o. water after already feeding to saturation, instead of testing the runoff that is a result of the saturation. See the difference?


good references:

Understanding Water Quality Bill Argo and Paul Fisher

Substrate pH and Water Quality Douglas A. Bailey, Paul V. Nelson, and William C. Fonteno

THE EFFECT OF NUTRIENT SOLUTION PH ON PHOSPHORUS AVAILABILITY IN SOILLESS CULTURE OF TOMATO Jacek Dyśko, Stanisław Kaniszewski,Waldemar Kowalczyk Research Institute of Vegetable Crops Skierniewice, Poland

Understanding Plant Nutrition: Nutrient Sources: Media Cation Exchange Capacity By Bill Argo and Paul Fisher

pH Management and Plant Nutrition, Bill Argo

Part 1 Intro
Part 2 Water Quality
Part 3 Fertilizers
Part 4 Substrates
Part 5 Choosing the Best Fertilizers

Addressing pH Problems By Matt Taylor and Dieter Lohr

PourThru Sampling - for testing medium pH and EC
 
gaiusmarius

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
good post Carl, i have noticed that the ec isn't much different whether measuring with the method you describe, ie distilled water in a jug with a certain amount of coco from the root zone, or measuring the run off. you will get a slight difference in results if you use distilled water in one way and tap or nutrient solution for the other experiment, but that's about it. but lets say you do a maintenance flush and after you are done you measure the ec in some of the last run off and then do the ec test using the same water you used to flush with you will see both systems show equal ec results within 0.2 points. for this reason i have stopped bothering to do that ec test and just check the run off after normal watering to give me an idea. but in the end the run off ec isn't very important, at certain times in the grow it can go up very high and have no visible negative effects as long as the nutrient solution is still normal. as i run a recirculating setup i don't like to see my run off get too freaky high though, i don't want it to start pushing the tank ec up too much. but if you are chucking your run off you can completely ignore the run off ec. it will suffice to make sure your nutrient solution is at the correct level and a doing maintenance flush once a month during 12/12.
 
C

Carl Carlson

gaiusmarius said:
good post Carl, i have noticed that the ec isn't much different whether measuring with the method you describe, ie distilled water in a jug with a certain amount of coco from the root zone, or measuring the run off.
Click to expand...

I think unless the water is of very poor quality than you don't have to worry about the pH of the coco changing during the course of the grow. The lack of degradation of the particles compared to say peat definitely plays a role. For me, watering DTW (5% goal - 10% max), the EC of the coco will rise to around 2.0 over the course of a grow, even though max. strength solution is EC 1.2-1.3. Sometimes I'll measure the "W" and the EC is 2.6!
 
M

mojo420

Member
Carl Carlson said:
great post. coco is not inert like rockwool, perlite or clay balls, but because of it's water and air holding property it can be used sort like a hydro medium and in hydro systems. But one cannot for instance adjust the pH of the coco on the fly by adjusting the pH of the irrigation water. And one cannot measure the pH of the coco solution that the roots are surrounded by, by measuring the runoff that is a result of feeding with nutrients...

in a coco grow, water pH is not king. One reason we know this is because of the variance in irrigation water pH used by many successful growers using coco only. 5.5, 5.6-6.2, 5.8, 5.8-6.2, 5.3-6.3, etc.

Another reason we know this is because the topic has been recently studied in labs, especially at Michigan State University by Bill Argo, Paul Fisher and a few others. They've demonstrated that the water alkalinity (buffering capacity) and the type of nitrogen (ammoniacal vs nitrate) used has a much greater affect on medium pH than does the water pH.

I've found and think most other coco growers will agree that the pH of really good coco is very stable throughout a grow. I started out growing in coco only by keeping the irrigation water pH in a range - 5.6 -6.2. But than I did one grow where it was 5.8 the whole time and that worked out fine too. Part of the reason for the confusion is that because of it's other physical properties, coco can be used in hydro systems, but it is still much more like peat in terms of pH and EC mgmt. than it is like rockwool, perlite or clay balls. The CEC of the last three is much lower if anything (?).

Instead of runoff, one should measure the pH and EC of the coco solution surrounding the roots by using the "N.C. State pour through" method, which really isn't that much different in practice accept that you test with distilled or r.o. water after already feeding to saturation, instead of testing the runoff that is a result of the saturation. See the difference?


good references:

Understanding Water Quality Bill Argo and Paul Fisher

Substrate pH and Water Quality Douglas A. Bailey, Paul V. Nelson, and William C. Fonteno

THE EFFECT OF NUTRIENT SOLUTION PH ON PHOSPHORUS AVAILABILITY IN SOILLESS CULTURE OF TOMATO Jacek Dyśko, Stanisław Kaniszewski,Waldemar Kowalczyk Research Institute of Vegetable Crops Skierniewice, Poland

Understanding Plant Nutrition: Nutrient Sources: Media Cation Exchange Capacity By Bill Argo and Paul Fisher

pH Management and Plant Nutrition, Bill Argo

Part 1 Intro
Part 2 Water Quality
Part 3 Fertilizers
Part 4 Substrates
Part 5 Choosing the Best Fertilizers

Addressing pH Problems By Matt Taylor and Dieter Lohr

PourThru Sampling - for testing medium pH and EC
Click to expand...

I do just that - I adjust my reservoir's pH before each watering if it needs it. I know from experience that if I don't, the coco pulls it outa range and I start picking up signs of lockout. So I don't know about all your reference is talking about but I definitely adjust my pH on the fly - and it works amazingly well for me. Btw, testing the FIRST runoff out of my pots has saved my ass more than once by letting me know which way the pH was being pulled, lolol..... B'cuzz coir pulls it up and Canna's pulls it down - so I don't know, man - maybe the laws of the coco root zone don't apply in my garden - :D I'm just a plain, ordinary coco grower though and don't spend much time thinking about it unless something goes wrong and it hasn't for years now...

mojo
 
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