going downhill fast

[Guest]

LOL...I hear ya mang. You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mojo again.

LMFAO, dude I hear ya. I'm new here. But I got lucky and was taught how to grow in coco by gaius and as a result, I've learned this coco shit really, really well. And it kinda makes a guy feel like the Aflac duck to be standing there telling a guy all he needs to know about how to fix a problem that's killing his plants and see him continue to add this, or water less, or maybe put beaver shit or bird beaks in the water, or maybe turn the plants to face north during the day and south at night, hehe. Not growing in dirt, AINT ROCKET SCIENCE. It's so easy even I can do it, lol.

I didn't know gaiusmarius from owl's shit but he was the only one that consistently said the same thing over and over again. So I decided to let go of trying to wish things to happen and I started to do what he said would work. I guess the fact he was moderator of the newly formed coco group didn't hurt his credibility either, lol.

I guess when it's all said and done, some people need to fail every time they grow from seed till that magic number of failures hits em and they just say "what the fuck", I've fucked this up long enough. I'm gonna listen to what the people who don't fuck up have to tell me on how to do it.

Glad I started listening from the very beginning. Like I said, gaius is the reason I know how to grow in this medium and it's nothing to do with my superior abilities. He gets all the credit! But oldp, you know the guy, this is nothing new to you.

Peace oldpeculiar, think you've got the right idea, dude. Maybe I oughta just find a place to sit somewhere and whip out the old banana, lol. Least that way if I get blue in the face, I'll get some return on my investment. LMFAO.

And Dakota, I'm gonna make one more stab at it:

I'm not making fun of ya dude. My mind was running around in circles just like yours is, telling me it can't be that simple. But it is. Lower your pH to 5.8 by flushing your pots with tap water pH'd to 5.8 (2 gallon pots =at least a 4 gallon flush), water till 10-20% runoff every day with the correct pH of 5.8 to keep the pH from building up in your pots, feed with the correct NPK levels, and don't worry about shit unless ya see bugs. DON'T LET THE POTS GET EVEN CLOSE TO DRYING OUT BETWEEN WATERINGS IN COCO. When you do that in a soil less medium the salts build up and the pH starts rising on ya. If you start having leaf problems again way on down the road, flush again and repeat the above. What do you have to lose except 5 gallons of water. Your plants are going down for the count if you don't try it, so...

I'm done. oldpeculiar, you got an o2 mask I can borrow.

 

[unlearning]

I'm not making fun of ya dude. My mind was running around in circles just like yours is, telling me it can't be that simple. But it is. Lower your pH to 5.8 by flushing your pots with tap water pH'd to 5.8 (2 gallon pots =at least a 4 gallon flush), water till 10-20% runoff every day with the correct pH of 5.8 to keep the pH from building up in your pots, feed with the correct NPK levels, and don't worry about shit unless ya see bugs. DON'T LET THE POTS GET EVEN CLOSE TO DRYING OUT BETWEEN WATERINGS IN COCO. When you do that in a soil less medium the salts build up and the pH starts rising on ya. If you start having leaf problems again way on down the road, flush again and repeat the above. What do you have to lose except 5 gallons of water. Your plants are going down for the count if you don't try it, so...

This is kind of out of the blue and I don't mean to be stealing anyone's thread. But I am getting the same sort of problem only about 3 weeks into veg using 50/50 vermiculite/perlite.

Does letting the soil dry out do the same thing as your describing here cause I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure out what the problem is.

Thanks in advance guys

Un

 

[MTF-Sandman]

This is kind of out of the blue and I don't mean to be stealing anyone's thread. But I am getting the same sort of problem only about 3 weeks into veg using 50/50 vermiculite/perlite.

Does letting the soil dry out do the same thing as your describing here cause I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure out what the problem is.

Thanks in advance guys

Un

Nah, coco has a few quirks that require special attention that other mediums don't. The mag & K issues with coco are pretty specific to it since it has to do with the cation exchange that the coco causes.

Post up a thread in the infirmary with all the vitals (nutes/enviro/setup details) and we'll see what we can do to help ya tho. Pics really help alot...

 

[dakota]

thanx people, I am listning, just confused, i will go ahead and take the advice and make some huge changes. I would love to read and learn more about this but i have just started back at school last week full time and my nights are spent studying untill all hours of the night, it is hard to even find time to tend to my plants and get info in this thread, but it is very imortant to me, so, just to clear something up, everthing you have been saying about the coco soiless mix, does this apply to a all peat soiless mix as well?, including watering every day? will i not overwater and possibly get root rot, some of my pots dont dry out till day 4. I am deff going to start flushing with ro water, just worried they will get overwatered.

 

[gaiusmarius]

Hey dakota,

in the first post the coco looks very dry? do you water till run off here and there?

not from the dakotas, wc is wormcastings, ph is tested from runoff, it is about 6.5 going in, but the dolo lime just buffers it back to 7 no matter how low a ph i put in. I thought N got locked out in too low a ph? maybe the high ph is my problem? anyways thanks people, keep em coming.

yes your ph needs to be around 5.8 when growing in coco, if your talking about soil with a little bit of coco, then 6.5 with earth ferts will be fine. but mainly coco need 5.8 to 6.0 ideally.

Bottom leaves with green veins and yellow leaf = magnesium def. Totally yellow leafs with no burn = magnesium def. Got the picture? Check it out.

in coco epsom salts are no good. the reason he has mg withdrawal symptoms is because the ph is too high for the mg to be used properly in coco. ph of 5.8 will make all the mg available to the plants and if you are feeding a balanced coco specific fert, it will take care of all the needs of the plants.

anyway dakota as i get to the end of the thread i see that you have been given the info you need. the right ph is essential, until you got that right nothing else will be right either in the nutrient uptake department. mojo gives me all the credit, but in the end it was his natural green thumb that made him understand many things on an instinctive level. not every one can pick it up that quick.

anyway once you have done the flush with ph 5.8 you can then consider adding 1 dose of cal mag here and there if you feel it's needed. but without the ph being lower the cal mag will not work.

the thing is that the yellow leaves will not turn perfectly green again as soon as you have the ph corrected and the possible high salt content flushed out of that coco, but you will notice the leaves get darker and the healthy leaves specially will show a positive change.

good growings

 

[Guest]

listen to gaius please. He's already forgotten more about this than I'll ever know. Peace.

 

[dakota]

in the first post the coco looks very dry? do you water till run off here and there?
i usually water when pots are getting lighter, but not completly dry or anything, runoff every time i water, about 25% runoff.
Well i started the flush today ran 8 g of water through each pot, and when i tested the last 2L coming out it was still at 7.1....fuck, i guess i just went overboard on the dolo lime when mixing the soiless mix at 2 tbs per gallon. Oh well, I guess ill just chalk this one up for experiance, and learn from my mistakes.

 

[Ono Nadagin]

what was the PH of the water you flushed with?

I have never been able to over water with coco, but I have been able to over fert.... so if you should be able to flush the dolo out if that is the prob... I have never used it in Hydro so I cant speak from exp if that is what is causing your problem.

Flush em again if you like , it shouldnt cause a problem.... you might also want to mix up a batch of nutes and follow along behind teh flush and feed with it.

 

[dakota]

ph adjusted to 6.0 going in, while flushing i can see that my drainage is issue, more perlite next time. along with the dont need dolo lime in coco lesson i just learnt.

 

[Ono Nadagin]

I would suggest lowering the ph of the feedings to 5.8 ... mind if I ask what you mean by your drainage is a problem? to slow I take it?...

 

[gaiusmarius]

you don't have to worry about how wet the coco looks, as long as it can drain freely it's not gonna drown your plants. once every other day is really the minimum you should water in coco. but like i said the water must be able to drain off, you don't want the pots sitting in puddles of water all the time. when the water can drain off freely, you actually benefit the plants by watering multiple times a day with pure coco. every time you water you are forcing out the old used up air in the root zone, then as the water drains off it naturally gets replaced by fresh air. so not only do you provide fresh nutes and water, but an air change too, every time you water in coco. although you have to start from the beginning with multiple daily waterings as the plant will then make a kind of hydroponic root system. but once a day will clearly benefit your plants. ideally you water till a bit of run off every time.

as far as the high returning ph, you should still be able to finish the grow. just use a low ph level when ever you water them, give them ph 5.6 and slowly but surely the ph should adjust. i have a feeling that the dolomite lime is not easy to flush out of the medium, but with time the coco ph should sink.

 

[dakota]

gaius, is it bad to mix coco and peat in a soiless mix together?, how about with the wormcastings? trying to plan my next grow as i have cuttings that i am going to start on sat. I relaize everything about the ph and such, but i still want to go with peat and coco mix, and if i do keep the same mix, do i treat it like a coco grow, watering daily with a ph of 5.8 , or more like a peat soiless mix, where i would water when needed, with a ph of around 6.5. or a mixture of both say like ph of 6 and water more often, will this work? not sure which way i will go. I am taking notes, great info thanx.

 

[Ono Nadagin]

I cant speak for Giaus, but in my opinion admentments meant for soil are best left to use in soil... but having said that I know of many ppl that have great success with Botanicares Redygro and it is coco heavy and has WCs as well as other soil admendments.. as well as peat which by iteself makes a great soiless medium

I myself like just straight coco as in using it I have not seen the need for anything added to it and with out other things in it, I think it is easier to identify problems by being able to rule out adverse reactions to anything mixed with the coco...

As far as the feedings go on your coco/peat mix, I would water daily based upon the watering intructions for readygro.... they have two formulations... one you water 1-2 times a day(more peat I think) and one you water 3-4 times a day or more(less peat)

 

[dakota]

hey thanks alot Ono, i haven't heard of that stuff til now but sounds simmilar, this helps alot. i will look into this stuff, im wondering if there is any dolomite lime in there? or a recomended ph? very good info thanx. I am debating to go with strait coco and perlite but am unsure of the coco brick, it is all i can find, I heard it could have a high salt content creating problems? although I do soak for 24-48 hours then drain through a make shift strainer when expanding. Kinda nervous to start a whole new method.

 

[Guest]

dakota, how's it hangin dude. gaius keeps close tabs on his forum - http://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65577.

I had asked him to come over here the other day and help you make a decision by giving you the information you needed. I'll help you with your grow if you'd like or you can swing on over to the coco group and join us.

As for the peat/coco mix, could I ask you why you're so intent on mixing the two as the coco is not really meant to mix with anything. Pretty much any medium you use is just a means of getting nutrients and oxygen into your plants. And there's a range of pH that is perfect for this to happen just like with the human body. The human body's normal pH is a range between 7.35-7.45 and as long as our pH is in that range everything works like it's supposed to. When our pH gets out of that range, then either our lungs or our kidneys beging to have to work in order to comensate and bring the pH back into range.

Same with coco. Its range is 5.2-6.2 and when it's kept there, the plants can absorb the nutrients we feed them. Peat is used in soil to help solve either a pH or moisture problem in the soil. You use peat in a sandy soil to help hold water or you add it to a soil that is normally alkaline. You don't need this in coco as coco keeps the right amount of water, 02 and pH levels all by itself. Adding peat to the mix will keep lowering the pH and pull it out of range in the low or acidic end of the spectrum. And if coco keeps the perfect ratio of water to oxygen in the root ball, why would you want to add something like peat to the mix that would cause more water retention. More water retention means less oxygen in it's gaseous form for the plants to uptake. Worst of all probably is peat's tendency to hold on to salts and salt is your enemy. In straight coco, you water every day to get a run-off out the bottom of the pots to essentially flush out these salts with every watering.

You know how sometimes when you buy something you have to put together, like let's say a bicycle, they give you a list of tools you'll need to put it together in the front of the instruction booklet. If you'll read me, I'm going to give you a list of tools you'll need to put your grows together.

Grow medium
coco DON'T TRY TO CUT CORNERS HERE BY BUYING THE CMEMORYEST OUT THERE. Generally speaking, the higher the quality of your coco, the lower the salt content and the less you'll have to flush to get it out. In fact Canna Coco Coir and B'Cuzz coco are two brands you can plant into without flushing at all!

water
tap water is fine, let it sit for a while so the chlorine will gas off to atmosphere. If the ec of your tap water is high like mine is, use a 50/50 mix of reverse osmosis (RO) water and tap water like I do. Your water mix alone, without anything added will probably have a pH in the 7-8 range if you're like most people so you'll need to pull it down to within the 5.2-6.2 range for coco. Do this AFTER adding your nutes as the nutes will also affect the pH of your water.
pH up and pH down - I think these in liquid form are more convenient that the powder type.

Liquid nutrients that are specifically for a coco grow:
NPK nutrients such as Canna A+B to provide the essentials Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium
PK 13/14 - Used as a phosphorous and potassium boost during different stages of growth, particularly useful intermittently during the bloom stage.
Canna Rhizotonic - which is used primarily to encourage root growth by providing enzymes the roots need to grow. It also provides low-dose NPK and is particularly useful during the seedling stage as seedlings need lots of root growth and just a little food.

THAT'S IT!!! Not much to it. Easy if you don't go adding a bunch of stuff that'll screw around with the coco and make it hard.

If you want to do this right, come over to the coco forum where people like gaius can keep up with your progress and help you out when you run into problems. Like I said I'll be willing to help out if you'd like and that would also be a lot easier to do if you're in the coco forum. I'm not out of the forum very often.

 

[dakota]

Hey mojo!, yeah im seriously thinking of going this route and switching over to coco, and i deffinetly will do my homework over in the coco forums, i have already began. When i started using the coco i thought of it as a substitute for the peatmoss, with the same characteristics, i obviously didnt do enough research, also I had just recently bought a ph pen so i was unaware of my mistakes and the issues with my ph.
The reason i was intent on mixing the two is because watering every day would be a difficult task to accomplish this summer, when im out of town camping and such. The reason i started with the coco is because it comes in a small brick, instead of a large bail, and space is of an issue over here, so i figured i could mix the two to make for easy conditions of my situation. I was wrong, and now i will decide which way to go with this. I just hope the sensi star pulls through!... So i want to thank everyone for helping me to realize how to become a better grower, thanx alot, Peace.

 

[Guest]

No prob Dakota, glad to help. Watering's an issue for me too. Reason it's an issue is cause I'm worn out by hand watering every day. Bought the stuff to make a drip system and plan to do it here in the next couple or three weeks. I've only got two plants but they're taking up almost my entire 7 foot wide closet. Setting up the drip system is easier that ya think and I'll be glad to help ya out by telling ya what to buy when you're ready. Once you get it set up, you can leave it alone for days once you get it tweaked.

You've made the right choice on grow mediums and nice to hear you're going to the coco forum to study up on it. Holler at me if you have a question.

Peace