Gnat Larva?

[MTF-Sandman]

It can cause serious health damages, there have even been reports about people who overereacted to fruit that contained BT and died...

Even oxygen is toxic if given in high enough concentraions...there's really no risk to 99.999% of humans tho.

http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/ts/Zoo/WNV/larvicides/Bti.html

Is Bti harmful to humans or pets?

No measurable health effects were seen in laboratory animals that ingested large concentrations of Bti. Cases involving human health effects following exposure to Bti are extremely rare. Direct exposure to Bti was shown to cause skin and eye irritation in some animals (3). Cases of eye and skin irritation in humans have also been reported following direct exposure with some Bacillus thuringiensis products (2). Pets are unlikely to experience health effects from exposure to Bti based on the results from numerous studies involving laboratory animals.

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/bacillus.htm

Toxicological Effects:

Acute toxicity: B.t. is practically non-toxic to humans and animals. Humans exposed orally to 1000 mg/day of B.t. showed no effects [146]. A wide range of studies have been conducted on test animals, using several routes of exposure. The highest dose tested was 6.7 x 10^11 spores per animal. The results of these tests suggest that the use of B.t. products causes few, if any, negative effects. B.t. was not acutely toxic in tests conducted on birds, dogs, guinea pigs, mice, rats, and humans. No oral toxicity was found in rats, or mice fed protein crystals from B.t. var. israelensis [147]. The LD50 is greater than 5000 mg/kg for the B.t. product Javelin in rats and greater than 13,000 mg/kg in rats exposed to the product Thuricide [147,148]. Single oral dosages of up to 10,000 mg/kg did not produce toxicity in mice, rats, or dogs [148]. The dermal LD50 for a formulated B.t. product in rabbits is 6280 mg/kg. A single dermal application of 7200 mg/kg of B.t. was not toxic to rabbits [148]. B.t. is an eye irritant; 100 grams of formulated product applied in each eye of test rabbits caused continuous congestion of the iris as well as redness and swelling [149]. Very slight irritation from inhalation was observed in test animals. This may have been caused by the physical rather than the biological properties of the B.t. formulation tested [8]. Mice survived 1 or more 1-hour periods of breathing mist that contained as many as 6.0 x 10^10 spores B.t. per liter [143].
Chronic toxicity: No complaints were made by 8 men after they were exposed for 7 months to fermentation broth, moist bacterial cakes, waste materials, and final powder created during the commercial production of B.t. [143]. Dietary administration of B.t. for 13 weeks to rats at dosages of 8400 mg/kg/day did not produce toxic effects [143]. Some reversible abnormal redness of the skin was observed when 1 mg/kg/day of formulated B.t. product was put on scratched skin for 21 days. No general, systemic poisoning was observed [8].
Reproductive effects: There is no indication that B.t. causes reproductive effects [143].
Teratogenic effects: There is no evidence indicating that formulated B.t. can cause birth defects in mammals [143,148].
Mutagenic effects: B. thuringiensis appears to have mutagenic potential in plant tissue. Thus, extensive use of B.t. on food plants might be hazardous to these crops [143]. There is no evidence of mutagenicity in mammalian species.
Carcinogenic effects: Tumor-producing effects were not seen in 2-year chronic studies during which rats were given dietary doses of 8400 mg/kg/day of B.t. formulation [148]. It is unlikely that B.t. is carcinogenic.
Organ toxicity: There is no evidence of chronic B.t. toxicity in dogs, guinea pigs, rats, humans, or other test animals.
Fate in humans and animals: B.t. does not persist in the digestive systems of mammals that ingest it [149].

You sure it wasn't another subspecies of BT besides BTi? I can't forsee any use of BTi for fruits - maybe BTk (for catepillars) or one of the other 800 strains that are out there?

The only real hazard would be injecting it (in a purified form) into your abdoman or brain...I and seriously doubt that if you could find it in a purified form you would ever inject it...and if you do, then you deserve any possible ill effects that it may cause.

 

[spicecowboy]

Yes, it´s not the BT alone that´s so dangerous.

It´s more the fact that BT "degrades" with time, and changes it´s chemical setup.

And yes, it´s also used on "fruit farms", mainly in greenhouses.

There are thousands of articles out there that intend to calm everybody down, but this stuff is dangerous, believe me.

Just google around a bit, and you´ll find out what I mean.

Use the keywords "Bacillus Thuringiensis and Anthrax", you´ll be surprised...

Did you know that some "genetially modified" corn contains Bacillus Thuringiensis in it´s DNA?

Not a good thing, if you ask me personally.


Anyway...

My advice is:

Stay away from that stuff and use SF Nematodes instead!


Peace,



spice

 

[MTF-Sandman]

LOL...if you're worried about consuming more than a gram of pure Bti daily for an extended period of time, then you've got worse issues than the fungus gnats to deal with :

Just because anthrax is in the same genus (being a bacillus) doesn't mean shit...

http://www.cei.org/utils/printer.cfm?AID=2210

Anthrax Risk From Bacillus Thuringiensis Wildly Exaggerated
Organic Insecticide Safe, Biotech “Bt Crops” Even Safer

News Release
by CEI Staff
November 2, 2001

Reports raising public health concerns about a common and safe soil bacterium used in organic farming and in some biotech crops are unwarranted, a coalition of non-profit organizations that research agriculture, food, and health issues said today. According to researchers at the American Council on Science and Health, the Center for Global Food Issues, the Center for International Food and Agriculture Policy, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and Consumer Alert, the soil bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis, used as an organic insecticide and as the source for a pest-resistant gene for some biotech crops, has been misleadingly and inappropriately linked with the bacterium that causes anthrax by opponents of biotechnology and modern agricultural practices.

Bacillus anthracis, which causes anthrax, and Bacillus thuringiensis are closely related species. But while B. anthracis is a potentially deadly microbe, B. thuringiensis has been used for decades as a safe and effective organic insecticide. “The risks of anthrax-exposure from organic foods and other crops sprayed with Bt bacteria are infinitesimally small,” said Alex Avery, Director of Research at the Hudson Institute’s Center for Global Food Issues, “More importantly, an anthrax risk from biotech crops is non-existent. This is just an opportunistic attempt to mislead the public and falsely attack biotechnology with guilt by association.”

Bacillus thuringiensis bacteria make proteins that are toxic to some insects but are harmless to birds, fish, mammals, and humans. Liquid preparations of B. thuringiensis bacteria, known as Bt sprays, have been applied to food crops as an insecticide for over 30 years, and the USDA has approved the use of Bt sprays under its new National Organic Standards. The gene responsible for generating the pest-resistant protein has also been used in some biotech crop varieties, including corn and cotton.

Anti-biotechnology activists are now calling for renewed caution in the use of Bt products and bans on biotech crops because of heightened awareness of anthrax and the close genetic relationship between the two microbes. Commentaries circulating among Internet discussion platforms run by the pro-organic and anti-biotechnology Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy and Organic Consumers Association charge that, “Bt can easily take up an anthrax plasmid and create anthrax related disease,” and “gene exchange could occur in the soil between [biotech] plant debris and bacteria.”

Such a tactic in the anti-biotech campaign is likely to backfire, however, as it highlights important differences between Bt bacteria used in organic farming and the single Bt gene used in biotech crops. Although it is not theoretically impossible for the whole Bt bacteria to mutate into B. anthracis, biotech crops use only the single gene from Bt that produces the insecticidal protein. “While there is an extremely small chance that organic Bt bacteria could mutate and become dangerous, anthrax-like illnesses from biotech crops that use only the single Bt gene are just not plausible” said Ruth Kava, Ph.D., Director of Nutrition with the American Council on Science and Health. “With biotech Bt crops, you get the pest protection, without live bacteria,” added Kava.

“If protest groups are so concerned about anthrax risk from Bt, you’d think they would turn their indignation against organic agriculture and rethink their opposition to biotechnology,” said Gregory Conko, Director of Food Safety Policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. “But in reality there is really no substance behind this scare.”

Do you personally know of someone that got anthrax from BTi? I might understand the fear of it if you lived in a plastic bubble and were allergic to everything on earth, but if you're in that situation - again you've got worse stuff to worry about.

How about some links to the stuff you're referring to? I'm all about learning something new if it's based on facts, but I haven't seen ANY human deaths reported due to Bti after searching google for quite some time.

Also I'm in no way doubting the nematodes work...they're just not available to everyone or for nearly as cheap.

 

[spicecowboy]

Hey Sandman!

I´m aware of the fact that SF Nematodes are not easily available.

According the Anthrax topic:

Well, this is really a "worst case scenario", but as I allready mentioned there are enough other reasons why you shouldn´t trust those companies trying to sell you their great "inventions".

Unfortunately all the links I got are in German, and I don´t feel like translating such complex stuff at the moment.

"Anthrax Risk From Bacillus Thuringiensis Wildly Exaggerated":

That is sooo typical.

They try to play everything down, and as I can see by your reaction,- they are sucessful.

Didn´t they do that with Asbest and chemical fertilizers back then?

Didn´t they even do that with "Atomic Energy" ?

I´m not living in a plastic bubble.

But I´m allways trying to take a look behind the curtain.

Best wishes to you,

spice

 

[jinxkakashi]

good god thats as much info as i could ever ask for thank you all so much for keeping up to date....im going to try HD Wallyworld and lowes tommorow and again thank you all so much

 

[Guest]

i spray BTi on my penis instead of using condoms.(just figgerd i'd start another internet rumor, hardy har hah)

 

[sonoma]

Nematodes are harmless to earthworms, beneficial mites, and you can drink a whole glass of water with about a million nemotodes in it and be just fine.....
Nemotodes killed a termite problem I had in a old house I used to live in. They rule!!!

 

[20kw dreams]

LMAO...Bacillis Thuringiensis var israeliensis to be specific, which is why it is called BTi, and not BT. Different varieties of BT kill off different critters by eating the larva from the inside out.

Shit is totally harmless from everything I've read. It's a natural bacteria which feeds on fungus gnat larva. Other BT's and definately a grip of Bacillis may definately be deadly.

It is not some crazy chemical or anything, just a farmed bacteria, like the ones many use as beneficial bacteria in the soil, it is also a beneficial bacteria. OMRI organic certified, in fact.

Anyways, definetely drop a misquito dunk in your rez, or crumble into your soil when mixing up, or dig into top few inches. They are meant to handle small ponds, so if you break one up, you may want to mix it with some grit or sand to spread it out better. It is near impossible to use too much of the stuff. The pucks I use are for 3000 square feet, and I have them in 16ft2 and 6 square ft rez's.

Definately get the yellow sticky paper to kill off adults and monitor numbers.

 

[jinxkakashi]

I'm from Cali, i got "mosquito dunks" from lowes, walmart and Home depot didn't carry shit i'm going to try them today and see what happens...hope for the best, i didnt see anything harmful in the dunks so here go

 

[10k]

20kwdreams wrote...
It is not some crazy chemical or anything, just a farmed bacteria, like the ones many use as beneficial bacteria in the soil, it is also a beneficial bacteria. OMRI organic certified, in fact.

Thank you for clearing that up 20kwdreams
"OMRI organic certified" is all anyone needs to know who may be worried or paranoid about using BTI. It's not going to harm anything but the fungus gnats.

Arrgh people, why be so worried about a totally natural little anti bug bacteria?
I mean geeeezzzzzz, the only way bti could give you any greif is "if" you ingested very large quantities. By that reasoning, you wouldnt drink a big glass of fish emulsion now...would you?

jinxkakashi (the thread starter) wrote...
I'm from Cali, i got "mosquito dunks" from lowes, walmart and Home depot didn't carry shit i'm going to try them today and see what happens...hope for the best, i didnt see anything harmful in the dunks so here goes

ok it's been almost two weeks. The bti should have done its job by now, although there may have been some adults that 'by virtue of their age" didnt get killed off and died of old age instead or will soon, but their "life cycle" should now be over.

Update please jinxkakashi ?

 

[jinxkakashi]

sorry for taking so long with the update....i was bug free after a week . i just crushed it up put it in the feeding water and watered soil as usual....the hydro i dropped half a tablet in the res and it was a bit messy but it worked