OldMan&theWeed
Member
Actually, if I were to use gibb, this is what I would use.
Use it if you wish, buy as for me, the freekish, useless stalk-like growths that is causes are very undesireable.
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gibberellin + jasmonic acid = more trichomes?
- Thread starter OldMan&theWeed
- Start date
Use it if you wish, buy as for me, the freekish, useless stalk-like growths that is causes are very undesireable.
Yes it's fine, AFAIK. Plants naturally produce JA, you would not be putting anything into the plant that isn't already there.
It's best to use MeJA as it's most well proven, that said, the form of JA in Jaz spray is also effective. Oswizzle has been using Jaz spray for some time now, and reports the same effects as does Oldman&TheWeed.
I start MeJA application in pre-flower and continue until flower formation starts, around week 4ish. I spray once every two weeks. So I spray usually 3 times from start of pre-flowering to start of heavy bud production. But there is no hard and fast rule, this is new territory, try it, and let us know what you did, and the results you noticed.
It's also important to note that JA is good for many other reasons than just trich and possibly terpenoid production. JA is great for helping the plant defend against biotic attack, and has been found to be effective against PM in some species of plants, etc.
It was Oswizzle who first showed me a study about MeJA effects on trich production in tomato some time ago, at TCC. Then I went from there and did all the background research on JA I posted in the my PGR thread. If it wasn't for Oswizzle giving me a heads up on that first study, none of us would know about using JA for trich production now. This is a brand new area for cannabis growth, AFAIK no-one has written about it or used it prior to Oswizzle and I looking into it, and testing jasmonates.
I'm stoked people are getting interested in this very useful PGR, but besides JA, there are other great PGRs. Albeit no other PGRs I know of have the same effect on trichs.
@ all,
I have gotten a few requests for a place to buy MeJA, so I figured I should post this:
here is MeJA: http://www.phytotechlab.com/Detail.aspx?ID=988
And here is a post of mine people should check out, many PGRs sources are listed, as well as info about PPM https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4050285&postcount=29
I have gotten a few requests for a place to buy MeJA, so I figured I should post this:
here is MeJA: http://www.phytotechlab.com/Detail.aspx?ID=988
And here is a post of mine people should check out, many PGRs sources are listed, as well as info about PPM https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4050285&postcount=29
bugler
Member
@zeno
1. I don't think that is necessarily true. I've gotten way high of not super frosty buds, and just ok high off super frosty.
2. Even if there is a connection in "normal" bud, I wouldn't find it impossible for these increased trichs to be "empty", or to have total thc level just split between more trichs, or something...
1. I don't think that is necessarily true. I've gotten way high of not super frosty buds, and just ok high off super frosty.
2. Even if there is a connection in "normal" bud, I wouldn't find it impossible for these increased trichs to be "empty", or to have total thc level just split between more trichs, or something...
@ all, FWIW:
Using MeJA, i.e., methyl jasmonic acid, (aka methyl jasmonate), an ester of jasmonic acid, is similar to some other PGRs, in that it needs to be dissolved in a very small amount of alcohol (e.g., ~< 1 ml), ex., EtOH (ethanol), and then can be mixed with water. Using Jaz spray is easier than using MeJA, but using MeJA isn't hard. I think one could also use isopropyl alcohol (=>70%) to dissolve MeJA, instead of EtOH. I plan to test using Iso (91%) instead of EtOH on my next grow...
Using MeJA, i.e., methyl jasmonic acid, (aka methyl jasmonate), an ester of jasmonic acid, is similar to some other PGRs, in that it needs to be dissolved in a very small amount of alcohol (e.g., ~< 1 ml), ex., EtOH (ethanol), and then can be mixed with water. Using Jaz spray is easier than using MeJA, but using MeJA isn't hard. I think one could also use isopropyl alcohol (=>70%) to dissolve MeJA, instead of EtOH. I plan to test using Iso (91%) instead of EtOH on my next grow...
I for one have noticed I seem to get higher from smoking buds from plants that were sprayed with JA, as MeJA. I have not yet tested buds from MeJA application with TLC spot density scanning, but I plan to soon, and compare the results of TLC spot density scanning from non-MeJA sprayed plants. I also plant to do the same test using Jaz spray and compare Jaz spay trich density and THC to MeJA trich density and THC.
Along with THC I plan to look at CBD, and a few other cannabinoids, as well as some terpenoids, with TLC spot density comparison via scanning.
The short answer IMO is yes; increased trich density equals greater level of total THC (and probably some terpenoids) per area or per gram of bud, but not greater THC per gland head.
bugler
Member
Perfect answer! And in my humble opinion, a well calibrated body is just as sensitive, if not more so in answering the potency question than a lab test. Bioassays are old school science, and much more inline with this people's medicine than digits and graphs.
The results on varieties of cannabinoids, terpenoids etc would be interesting though for future medical investigation.
Keep it up!
The results on varieties of cannabinoids, terpenoids etc would be interesting though for future medical investigation.
Keep it up!
AmeriSkunk
Member
that is mostly right. I would even go as far to say that if a plant that didnt form trichs will not get you high. I know this because I grew one a while back that made zero oils in the buds but it did make hollow trichs. I read what caused that last night but I dont remember exactly what it was. Some type of mutation.
Its not only the trichs that contain thc, so many people have bought into that. Trichs do contain alot of the thc in some strains, but in other strains(usually sativas, landrace especially) there is more thc located within the calyx itself. Plus sativas in general contain more thc per gram than indicas, thus further corroborating what I am saying
I am also curious as to if it increases potency. At first I thought well of course it has to. But think about this, if it is only causing an elongation of the fiberous part of the trichome is it causing the plant to produce more oils fill in the new growth or is it simply pulling oils from within the calyx upward. In that case the whole experiment would be bunk in my opinion. If its only elongating the trichs I would feel like I was being shady in doing that, being decptive, using trickery, ect.
Im not saying thats what anyone is trying to do but i would seriously like to see a scientific test on the thc levels before I use this stuff. plus if its only stretching the fiberous parts of the trichomes it seems to me that it would make the smoke more harsh than it would be otherwise.
IDK just something to think about
Its not only the trichs that contain thc, so many people have bought into that. Trichs do contain alot of the thc in some strains, but in other strains(usually sativas, landrace especially) there is more thc located within the calyx itself. Plus sativas in general contain more thc per gram than indicas, thus further corroborating what I am saying
I am also curious as to if it increases potency. At first I thought well of course it has to. But think about this, if it is only causing an elongation of the fiberous part of the trichome is it causing the plant to produce more oils fill in the new growth or is it simply pulling oils from within the calyx upward. In that case the whole experiment would be bunk in my opinion. If its only elongating the trichs I would feel like I was being shady in doing that, being decptive, using trickery, ect.
Im not saying thats what anyone is trying to do but i would seriously like to see a scientific test on the thc levels before I use this stuff. plus if its only stretching the fiberous parts of the trichomes it seems to me that it would make the smoke more harsh than it would be otherwise.
IDK just something to think about
S
schwagg
Yes, THC is formed in trichomes, as are other cannabinoids, mostly in glandular trichomes (in the head) but I also think (IIRC) that non-glandular trichomes have THC.
Not to my understanding. AFAIK,THC is formed in glandular trichomes, and maybe non-glandular trichomes. Glandular trichomes are located on calyxes, and I am nearly 100% positive THC is not located in the tissue of calyxes. Do you have any data to back up your claim?
I disagree with that, it's too much of a generalization IMO. THC quantity is a phenotypic trait, and is affected by the growing environment, besides by the genetic heredity of the plant.
MeJA increases trich density, i.e., number of trichs per leaf area. I am not sure what you mean by "oils"; if you mean secondary metabolites like terpenoids, AFAIK many are formed in the trichome, like is the case with THC, etc.
If a plant has greater trich density (ex., glandular trichomes), then it stands to reason the plant would have greater quantity of THC per area or per gram (depending upon how you want to quantify THC). But that doesn't necessarily mean that each trich holds more THC than plants not sprayed with jasmonates (like JA, MeJA or MDHJ).
Why? While I agree data on THC levels (either by TLC, HPLC, GC, etc.) is warranted, it's not needed for people to use jasmonates. It stands to reason from greater trich density you get greater total THC per bud, per leaf, etc.
Others reasons to use jasmonates is evidence that jasmontes (e.g., MeJA) increases some terpenoids (in both plants and trees); and it's well proven jasmonates increase plant resistance to many biotic attacks (ex., PM) and some abiotic stresses too, like drought conditions, coldness, etc.
That is not the case, jasmonates (as MeJA) increases trich density. Trichome formation needs jasmonates, as MeJA.
Nice find, I read that a while ago but forgot about it. Thanks for posting the study. I am going to post in my PGR thread too.
If a low enough concentration of GA3 can not be found that (1) does not cause fox tails and (2) increases trich destiny, people that grow cannabis for edibles or hash/kif or other extracts would probably benefit from using both GA3 and JA. I know that is my plan if I can't find the a sufficiently low dosage of GA3 to meet the criteria above, for when I grow just for extracts, edibles.
AmeriSkunk
Member
Dude I have the flu so I will try to answer your questions the best I can, I feel like shit.
Quote:
Its not only the trichs that contain thc, so many people have bought into that. Trichs do contain alot of the thc in some strains, but in other strains(usually sativas, landrace especially) there is more thc located within the calyx itself.
No this is just something I have noticed over the years with sativa srains, pure sativas have tiny trichs, hence less trichome coverage. Im not arguing that thc isnt made in the trichomes. It could even only be made in the trichomes but I believe that some strains/phenos calyxes absorb thc produced by the trichomes. IDK how it happens but I know we have all busted into a darker than normal sativa but that was just greasy not sticky. I have many times actually, and what im saying is generally that happens on sativa strains. Or that is my observation from over the years
And by oils I meant tch, cbd, cbn, the essential oils in cannabis
Quote:
Its not only the trichs that contain thc, so many people have bought into that. Trichs do contain alot of the thc in some strains, but in other strains(usually sativas, landrace especially) there is more thc located within the calyx itself.
No this is just something I have noticed over the years with sativa srains, pure sativas have tiny trichs, hence less trichome coverage. Im not arguing that thc isnt made in the trichomes. It could even only be made in the trichomes but I believe that some strains/phenos calyxes absorb thc produced by the trichomes. IDK how it happens but I know we have all busted into a darker than normal sativa but that was just greasy not sticky. I have many times actually, and what im saying is generally that happens on sativa strains. Or that is my observation from over the years
And by oils I meant tch, cbd, cbn, the essential oils in cannabis
B
BigTex
The Phytotechlab link has an attachment regarding the sale of MeJA...
"This product is for research use only and cannot be purchased for hobby use. The product cannot be shipped to residential addresses unless proof of legitimate research use can be provided."
That's a problem for me and I guess counts me out as I am not doing legitimate research nor can I get it delivered to my house. Looks like I'll be using Jaz Rose Spray...oh well.
"This product is for research use only and cannot be purchased for hobby use. The product cannot be shipped to residential addresses unless proof of legitimate research use can be provided."
That's a problem for me and I guess counts me out as I am not doing legitimate research nor can I get it delivered to my house. Looks like I'll be using Jaz Rose Spray...oh well.
OldMan&theWeed
Member
Just go here:
http://www.jazsprays.com/Jaz-Rose-Spray--16-oz-Concentrate_p_8.html
The active ingredient in Jaz Rose spray is methyl jasmonate.
No "proof of legitimate research use" needed.
B
BigTex
Hey OldMan while you were typing that last post I was editing my last sentence. LOL
Yea you sent me that link earlier and I checked it out...at that price how could I not try it! Normally I avoid excess chemicals but I think this little experiment is safe enough. Thanks for the info
...Spurr thanks for the links you sent me earlier
Yea you sent me that link earlier and I checked it out...at that price how could I not try it! Normally I avoid excess chemicals but I think this little experiment is safe enough. Thanks for the info
...Spurr thanks for the links you sent me earlier
