Gavita-Pro 1000w 400v (new generation hps)

[whazzup]

lol yes I noticed after answering you

Unfortunately you can only use a double ended lamp in a reflector with a double ended lamp holder. The Pro 600 works with a single ended lamp, but it is a non-dimmable hilips workhorse. If dimming is not your thing anyway this is a very efficient lamp: 1150 - 1190 (the new Plus version) umol s-1. That's about 600 umol s-1 less than a Hortilux 1000 HPS, but of course it is 600W. It's great for your uniformity though to use 600W if you use your reflectors at close distance (average 2-3 ft I consider close).

Our new 1000W single ended lamp unfortunately have not passed our quality criteria yet to be suitable for the high frequency pro-line ballasts. We're close, but we want it to be perfect of course and every minor change requires another burn-in testing period.

 

[diffusing]

whazzup,

Thanks for being on here and answering questions. its an awesome source of info for everyone, specially us noobs

I am building out a flower room @ 16.4'(L) x 10.8'(W) x 6.4'(H) and would have liked to do Gavita 1000's all around, but since the ceilings are so low.. it has been reccomeneded to me to use gavita 600's, or bare vert HPS. (thx LeeROI!) Do you have any thoughts on the effectiveness of Gavita 600 in a space with such low ceilings? Do you have any other thoughts/setup options? And if the 600s would work in such an environment, what would be the configuration you would recommend? would the heat be crazy? what kinda of amperage would be needed to run the 600s in the optimum setup, if the 600s are even doable in this space.

thx! i appreciate any feedback you, or anyone else for that matter, has to offer on this!

diffusing

 

[whazzup]

you're a bit low for 1000W, use 600 and scrog I would say if you want to go bare lamp. 600W is very doable but I don't know your climate and climate control options. You have approx. 5x3.3m, are you going to all use that for plants or do you have beds?

If you keep the crop below 1.1m then you could use 1000W at the ceiling, set not higher than 100%. It saves you a lot of fixtures of course and gives you the ability to dim.

 

[Normlfightr]

lol yes I noticed after answering you

Unfortunately you can only use a double ended lamp in a reflector with a double ended lamp holder. The Pro 600 works with a single ended lamp, but it is a non-dimmable hilips workhorse. If dimming is not your thing anyway this is a very efficient lamp: 1150 - 1190 (the new Plus version) umol s-1. That's about 600 umol s-1 less than a Hortilux 1000 HPS, but of course it is 600W. It's great for your uniformity though to use 600W if you use your reflectors at close distance (average 2-3 ft I consider close).

Our new 1000W single ended lamp unfortunately have not passed our quality criteria yet to be suitable for the high frequency pro-line ballasts. We're close, but we want it to be perfect of course and every minor change requires another burn-in testing period.

sorry bout that. and thanks for grtting back to me here.

im pretty set on 1000 watt fixtures although those 600s look nice. Its too bad on the SE's but of course id rather them be fully tested.

looks like im gointo have to grab some micromoles

can you comment as to the quality of te micromole vs the pro 1000?

is it true that gavita manufactures them and will they work well with hortilux bulbs in your opinion?

thanks and happy new year!

 

[whazzup]

The MicroMole is a OEM products indeed, it's the US equivalent of our DigiStar. It also runs at a very high frequency, so do keep a good eye on the framewire in your lamp when using it (like with any high frequency ballast). I don't expect problems, though Hortilux does only recommend to use low frequency ballasts. Their electronic ballast is a low frequency type as well.

The difference between the Pro-line and the DigiStar series is quality. The DigiStar is typically an entry level ballast which is a lot cheaper than the pro-line equiplment. You can and should compare it more to the Lumatek, Quantums etc. of this world. We put a lot of engineering into it to make if efficient and a reliable product. As with any digital ballast: If you are going for ultimate reliability there is nothing like a magnetic ballast. A good professional electronic ballast is in a different league than any of these of these lower end consumer market ballasts course, but it is still an electronic ballast.

Happy new year!

 

[diffusing]

you're a bit low for 1000W, use 600 and scrog I would say if you want to go bare lamp. 600W is very doable but I don't know your climate and climate control options. You have approx. 5x3.3m, are you going to all use that for plants or do you have beds?

If you keep the crop below 1.1m then you could use 1000W at the ceiling, set not higher than 100%. It saves you a lot of fixtures of course and gives you the ability to dim.

Whazzup, thanks for the feedback!

The room is in a basement that is below grade so its generally quite cool down there year round (we get hot summers and cold winters). I have exhaust and intake, and have the ability to add a couple standup/portable AC's if needed.. not opposed to buying some sort of control center for the environment either, but until I finish the room build I'm kind of guessing what my needs will be.

I am hoping to use all the space for flowering plants, although I may give beds a try down the road.. at this point just running organic with pots.

I just noticed the 1000 seems to require 6 inches more height than the 600. Out of curiosity, what would be the power/heat/output difference between running the 600 vs running the 1000 dimmed to 600?

thx

 

[whazzup]

The heat output would be a bit less with the 1000W, but that's because the efficiency of a lamp drops when you dim it. If you want to use 600W then you better use a 600W lamp.

For the 1000W I would really recommend at least 2' distance @100% and even more when you overlap.

to illustrate the distance for a single 600W lamp (late in bloom, moved the lamp even up a bit):

(1 amnesia haze in scrog, 1x1m tent)

 

[Normlfightr]

thanks for the help man.


after talking with monstergardens i have decided not to get the micromoles. they said that manufacturer (humboldt gardens?) told them last week that they will not be continueing to invest in that market or something to that affect. which of course has me lookin back at digistars and the pro line.

i cant seem to source 1000 digistars anywhere for some reason in the midwest USA.

so here my next question i hope you an answer.

will hortilux bulbs work with the pro 1000 in the meantime before you release the SE bulbs?

i have seen bent frame work in hortilux, digilux, and solarmax bilbs while useing them with lumatek ballasts, what does this mean for my safety and spectrum?

id realy like to move all my lighting to gavita buts its proving pretty diffficult to source there products or to implement them into my garden with the pro style reflector(3x5 footprint and special bulb), especially with quamtum 1000s goin for as low as 160 usd a piece and much more available to purchase and warrenty.

thank you whazzup

 

[farmari]

will hortilux bulbs work with the pro 1000 in the meantime before you release the SE bulbs?

i have seen bent frame work in hortilux, digilux, and solarmax bilbs while useing them with lumatek ballasts, what does this mean for my safety and spectrum?

id realy like to move all my lighting to gavita buts its proving pretty diffficult to source there products or to implement them into my garden with the pro style reflector(3x5 footprint and special bulb), especially with quamtum 1000s goin for as low as 160 usd a piece and much more available to purchase and warrenty.

thank you whazzup

I'ved used numerous Hortilux bulbs with multiple Quantum ballasts and all of the bulbs, including the new 'digital compatable' models get a black coating around the inside of the glass. For example my veg tent was running at 50% light output for weeks because I didn't know the bulb was darkened... ugh. Best to check output of any lamp regularly with a light meter.

IMO if you're going to be using horizontal lighting, and plan to have a canopy layout compatable with the reflector footprint, then the Gavita 1000w DE is great. (I'm guessing the 600w SE is as well?) Shouldn't have any problem getting the combo, ballast, replacement reflectors, replacement bulbs. Only reason to use the Micromole is for vertical lighting. If you're looking for horizontal lighting with a more concentrated footprint, Quantums + Super Sun 2s are a great combo. Just don't use Hortilux with them. Again this is just my opinion based on owning Gavita, Micromole, and Quantum ballasts.

 

[whazzup]

lots of questions.. many already answered

- DigiStars are not available in the US
- HortiLux are low frequency lamps. Hortilux own ballast is low frequency
- Bent frames dislocate the arc tube and can even rupture the lamp when touching it. Lamps suitable for high frequencies have different frame wires and arc tubes

Well we can't please everyone

 

[Normlfightr]

lots of questions.. many already answered

- DigiStars are not available in the US
- HortiLux are low frequency lamps. Hortilux own ballast is low frequency
- Bent frames dislocate the arc tube and can even rupture the lamp when touching it. Lamps suitable for high frequencies have different frame wires and arc tubes

Well we can't please everyone

sorry man i ve read the whole thread but i smoke lots of weed so my retention isnt the best and too time consuming to read again.
if i didnt already buy 5 grand in hoods id just get you full pro setup and make my layout work, but cant return them and they are badass hoods so im askin you this stuff so i can try to implement gavitas products into my grow in whichever way possible. looks like to me the only way to go gavita for me is there full system, i dont see a wide range of growers in the states being too pleased about that let alone little ole me. hopfully that changes soon


I never want to run the risk of fire in anyway but i dont see many options with lamps considering the digilux (which are suppose to work with digital ballasts)bent worse than the hortilux, so whats a good bulb to use, especially that has the added blues that hortilux does? ive easily bought over 100 hortilux lamps in the past and can inly rememebr 3 failing with no issues other than not firing...which was quickly exchanged under wArrenty no questions asked. they produce quality time and time again.i know hortilux makes an outrageously priced ballast, not interested there as i as ive seen nothing to back them up....and i think i remember you saying the square waves were not good fro some reason...lol j/k


i have not seen any arc tubes really dislocate, and gotten too many consistant yields of over 2per to say that some blackening on the tube reduced my output by much(inresponse to poster above)but was wonderring about spectrum although i havnt seen evidence of that with my product either im sure its possible. maye these things are worse with quantums over lumateks?


thanks for the help all!

 

[bakedjon]

Normal... Your PM box if full... Just sent you a message seeing how you had been doing... Cant get through. Send me one if you get this


Gavitas are nice. I have a few going. Hard to switch everything out, but I am a fan! Good deals from Fertile World too!

 

[LeeROI]

Newbies only get one PM until 50 posts are made.
. . . but no turbo posting!

 

[whazzup]

@ Normlfightr: Do what you are most comfortable with. I can't of coursse comment on the Lumatek and Quantums as they are not my product, and you can't compare them to the pro-line fixtures, that's a different league.

Hortilux make good lamps, I'm not a Hortilux rep though so I would ask Hortilux for recommendations. I am sure they will be willing to help you. Better get it from the source from a reputable company than on a forum imho.

One thing baffles me though: There are so many shops in the US, aren't they able to give you any advice based on their customer experience? Our resellers can have direct support from Gavita if their distributors can not answer their questions.

 

[Normlfightr]

@ Normlfightr: Do what you are most comfortable with. I can't of coursse comment on the Lumatek and Quantums as they are not my product, and you can't compare them to the pro-line fixtures, that's a different league.

Hortilux make good lamps, I'm not a Hortilux rep though so I would ask Hortilux for recommendations. I am sure they will be willing to help you. Better get it from the source from a reputable company than on a forum imho.

One thing baffles me though: There are so many shops in the US, aren't they able to give you any advice based on their customer experience? Our resellers can have direct support from Gavita if their distributors can not answer their questions.

gotcha

i dont think you give this forum enough credit. i would much rather asked my peers for tips and advice before a hydroshop employee. this isnt my first grow and my garden is not lacking in any way, just always trying to improve. seems with the lumateks and horti combo im in a sweet spot with the lighting. 200 a ballast and 50 bucks a bulb, compatible withpretty much anything out there.

what baffles me is gavitas marketing stategy to the biggest market in the world.

thanks man and good luck

 

[LeeROI]

"One thing baffles me though: There are so many shops in the US, aren't they able to give you any advice based on their customer experience?"

The long arm of federal law has them by the gonads, for one thing. If a person says the wrong thing, they may be banned from the shop. The store's federal tax ID number seemed to be a pivotal issue, as I overheard someone try to debate a store employee about acknowledging medical cannabis related products.

The other issue is plain old incompetence. I emailed an online retailer about the mounting position of the Philips Retro CMH bulbs they sell. Answer: these bulbs work in any position.

 

[whazzup]

gotcha

i dont think you give this forum enough credit. i would much rather asked my peers for tips and advice before a hydroshop employee. this isnt my first grow and my garden is not lacking in any way, just always trying to improve. seems with the lumateks and horti combo im in a sweet spot with the lighting. 200 a ballast and 50 bucks a bulb, compatible withpretty much anything out there.

what baffles me is gavitas marketing stategy to the biggest market in the world.

thanks man and good luck

Well I am not so worried about the knowledge on the fora, but more about the reseller. I know some really great guys with a lot of knowledge but maybe I am just visiting the good shops. It's no different in Holland btw, a lot of growshops don't know what they are talking about and do not like to innovate or change much.

As I said sometimes you need o make choices based on what you already have, and as for the singe ended lamp that we again postponed: do you think that I am really happy about that?

But even while it would probably do good we do think it is better to not introduce it when it is nor performing up to our standards. And these are very high.

 

[whazzup]

two minutes later...

I was just thinking that I don't give most of the shop owners much credit for their effort to learn and get educated, and that was very wrong because many do. But, I said it, and for that I apologize.

 

[N-P-Kali]

two minutes later...

I was just thinking that I don't give most of the shop owners much credit for their effort to learn and get educated, and that was very wrong because many do. But, I said it, and for that I apologize.

I like that… A man who is not afraid to admit his mistakes.

As it is, I was recently turned on to the lights (no pun intended) by a store owner, who happens to be someone I consider a friend, while putting in an order for a new project. What he said to me was he didn’t have any experience with the lights nor did he know how they performed and recommended I do some research on them because he had heard good things. He noticed I was ordering a few lights and said if I wanted to take them for a drive he would give me a smokin’ deal. An employee at the shop, a very cool guy, mentioned I could find some test grows and maybe a few threads on IC. By no means do I have an in depth knowledge of horticultural lighting and how, or in what way, the plant interprets the spectrum supplied by a lamp. My specialty is irrigation systems and plant nutrition. But my interest is piqued and it stemmed from a shop owner and his co-worker.

At this point I am strongly considering purchasing multiple units based on what I have researched so far.

Whazzup, maybe you could answer a couple questions for me.
How is the penetration of these lighting units? If one were to run larger plants, in your opinion, would a drop-off in development of the lower and secondary flower sites occur?

What does the testing data indicate as an effective coverage area for the unit? My plan is to place with 2 to 3 per 4x8 bed.

As far maintenance of the units, I understand the recommendation is to replace the reflector and bulb annually, but wouldn’t bulb degradation from thermal stress warrant replacement much sooner than the reflector? Well let me say it another way. Would it be advantageous to replace at 6 month intervals instead of annually?

To be honest I haven’t been this keen on a new product ever. I look forward to seeing them in action first hand.

 

[whazzup]

Especially when you use them in overlap they go very deep. Let me give you an example: I just did a calculation for 2x1000W (@100%) in a 5x10 SJ intense tent with two additional plasma lamps. Though this is not an ideal situation (high intensity light, low ceiling) these are the averages at certain height when I have all the fixtures at the ceiling. You need at least 60 cm distance to your crop.

Average intensity @ height:
25 cm 679 umol
50 cm 760 umol
75 cm 843 umol
100 cm 954 umol
110 cm 998 umol
120 cm 1046 umol
130 cm 1102 umol

So more than a meter deep you lose average about 400 umol on 1100 at the top, so just a bit more than 1/3.

This is just the HPS and the 2 plasma's on this space.

More lamps in a bigger room will give you even better results. Also the angle of the light will give a deep penetration in your crop. The HR96 throws light to the oposite side of the reflector, creating a wide angle throw instead of throwing the light downward.

there is a huge difference between 2 and 3 lamps

If you are replacing 4 air cooled lamps and you were satisfied with your light levels then add at least 25-40% to your room to get the same light levels. Easy to calculate: Let's say I take really good single ended lamp (Hortilux, 1800 umol s-1), use an extremely efficient new reflector (95% efficiency) and just 6% losses by the (clean!) glass filter. That brings me to 1600 umol leaving the reflector. A pro 1000 does 2000. That means that if you replace 4 air cooled you get 1600 umol more light with the 4 Pro 1000. Which is the same as getting an extra 1000W air cooled for free. At the same electricity cost!

It's easy to calculate: take the desired light level and the surface you want to light to get the requred ppf. Example: 4x8 bed (1.2x2.4M) = 2.88 m2 x 1000 umol = 2880 umol. Add 10% for light losses to walls: 3168 umol.

A pro 1000 does 2000 umol. Two (4000 umol) would already be too much and hard to spread over this surface. Even 3x Pro 600 will give you 1100 umol on that space, but that is much easier to handle.

You can use 2xpro 1000 overlapping, but keep them at 1.3m distance from each other and 90 cm from the crop to get already 1250 umol avg on your crop. Don't even think about hanging 3

lamps don't degrade by temperature. They are made to operate at that temperature. The degrade by firing up many times. You do that only once per day, in greenhouses they can do that like 10 times per day. in a year of use (5000 hours) you only lose 4% of light (or less!). So we recommend to change once per year, also because we allow the lamp to be used at 1150W. This does influence lamp life and light maintenance but not really a lot, so we can guarantee 4% losses a year.

The reflector is a different story. Microns thick high grade vacuum applied aluminum can not be cleaned with a towel or so, as you will scratch the material. Deterioration comes from calcium (water, damp), fungicides, sulfur, dust etc., not from oxidation. In a clean room this is just a few percent per year, but remember that 66% of the light is reflected light so it influences the output a lot. A clean grower should change them every 2 years, a "dirty" grower once a year. Replacing a just 6% deteriorated reflector can add as much extra light as a new lamp adds with considerably lower costs. The cheapest extra light you can get .