Four Strains, First Time DWC Grow

[Dr. Mantis Toboggan]

I’ve been involved with a lot of Mutual Aid groups revolving around community food security and autonomy, community kitchens and gardens, FNB and the like. So to me the idea of raising a decent protein source like tilapia via aquaculture while utilizing the waste to grow veggies (or dank buds) is really attractive! Hanging with fish is just an awesome bonus lol

Oh sweet! Are you in the nonprofit sector?

 

[EarlyHour]

Mid day update, I just got the last bit of supplies I need to start the conversion from DWC to RDWC. I’ll will be taking pics of the process and finished product and updating later!

 

[EarlyHour]

Oh sweet! Are you in the nonprofit sector?

For awhile I was working with a non-profit but in general it’s more just community organizations and the like! More like grassroots political activism

 

[negative37dBA]

Hey there buddy...good to see you getting wet with RDWC. You cant find a faster growing method...it blows everything else away. Can be a bit equipment heavy but once you have it setup its virtually automated. Been growing all stages in only water for four years now. I love it.
You will appreciate the switch to rdwc and the addition of a chiller will be a game changer. Have to control water temps. RDWC will keep your solution flowing and the cool water coming to those roots. I would HIGHLY suggest going with a Undercurrent design. Bombproof and works flawlessly.
One issue. I never grow different strains in the same system. You have no way to account for differing nutrient and finishing time needs.
Hope you have great luck and if you need any help feel free to shout out. I have tons of time with RDWC and may be able to help you avoid some pitfalls.
Peace, negative.

 

[EarlyHour]

Hey there buddy...good to see you getting wet with RDWC. You cant find a faster growing method...it blows everything else away. Can be a bit equipment heavy but once you have it setup its virtually automated. Been growing all stages in only water for four years now. I love it.
You will appreciate the switch to rdwc and the addition of a chiller will be a game changer. Have to control water temps. RDWC will keep your solution flowing and the cool water coming to those roots. I would HIGHLY suggest going with a Undercurrent design. Bombproof and works flawlessly.
One issue. I never grow different strains in the same system. You have no way to account for differing nutrient and finishing time needs.
Hope you have great luck and if you need any help feel free to shout out. I have tons of time with RDWC and may be able to help you avoid some pitfalls.
Peace, negative.

Hey there, thank you for the response! I appreciate it a lot. I’m definitely feeling the 4 different strains right now hahaha. Next time I’ll definitely be sticking to one.

Undercurrent design is definitely the way I’m going! Very excited to see it in action. The water temperatures have definitely been a thing for me so I’m hoping this will help. Unfortunately a chiller is a bit out of reach for now!

What nutrient line do you run? I’ve been doing the Lucas formula with MaxiBloom and it’s been pretty good so far! I’m seeing a bit of deficiencies start in 2 plants the last couple days but I’ve also been dealing with lots of pH swings so I think that may be the issue.

 

[Dr. Mantis Toboggan]

For awhile I was working with a non-profit but in general it’s more just community organizations and the like! More like grassroots political activism

Awesome - sounds fulfilling.

 

[negative37dBA]

Hey there, thank you for the response! I appreciate it a lot. I’m definitely feeling the 4 different strains right now hahaha. Next time I’ll definitely be sticking to one.

Undercurrent design is definitely the way I’m going! Very excited to see it in action. The water temperatures have definitely been a thing for me so I’m hoping this will help. Unfortunately a chiller is a bit out of reach for now!

What nutrient line do you run? I’ve been doing the Lucas formula with MaxiBloom and it’s been pretty good so far! I’m seeing a bit of deficiencies start in 2 plants the last couple days but I’ve also been dealing with lots of pH swings so I think that may be the issue.

Glad to be here. Always willing to lend a hand when I can. So by switching to a Undercurrent RDWC you will see ZERO improvement in your water temperatures sorry to say. Possibly even go up with the addition of a pump depending on how you plumb it. The only way forward is a chiller. Don't waste time or effort with any other way. It will be the best 400.00 you ever spent in growing gear. I cannot repeat this enough. You will hear all kinds of methods to combat it...the ONLY proper way is a chiller. Also insulate all lines with quality foam all around and the buckets with reflectix or similar. I also use reflectix of the tops of the pots to reduce heat infiltration.
As for nutrients...I make all but 1 of the items I use to grow from scratch. Got a whole detailed thread on it here.
https://www.icmag.com/threads/getting-off-the-bottle-how-i-diy-all-my-nutes.18124556/
I wont pay for water. Big nute companies can fuck right off. I make the same or better for 100's of times less. I wont go into a ton of detail here as its your thread but Jacks 321 is the bomb. I use added cal mag that I mix up myself and MPK to. I have went from using 10 or 11 different bottles of Advanced Nutrients for a run to just A, B, cal mag, NPK and silica. I dropped so much from my mix and guess what. Buds were as good or better than ever and some of the cleanest smoke I have ever had. I will never return to buying nutes.
That said I have no issues with people who do. But you can save a ton of MONEY if you know how to measure and mix dry nutes which is stupid simple....Never pay shipping for water again.
Peace, negative.

 

[tobedetermined]

The only way forward is a chiller. Don't waste time or effort with any other way.

My first grow and 1/2 (a story) was with a home built udwc. The growth was amazing . . . but with room temp 70 - 72 degree water, I was always fighting pH swings. imho it has to be chilled. And RO as well to really dial it in. I gave up and moved to coco because it suited me better . . . but there was that amazing growth . . .

 

[negative37dBA]

You are correct there sir. Quality source water is vital. I use R/O water filtered through a UV sterilizer. Best way in my opinion to start. Then either go strerile or live depending on what you prefer. I go live.

 

[negative37dBA]

Amazing growth yes!! Hydro is the nuts when it comes to growth. My 4x5 room started with 4 plants...now I only run 1 because it fills the whole space so quickly.

 

[EarlyHour]

Glad to be here. Always willing to lend a hand when I can. So by switching to a Undercurrent RDWC you will see ZERO improvement in your water temperatures sorry to say. Possibly even go up with the addition of a pump depending on how you plumb it. The only way forward is a chiller. Don't waste time or effort with any other way. It will be the best 400.00 you ever spent in growing gear. I cannot repeat this enough. You will hear all kinds of methods to combat it...the ONLY proper way is a chiller. Also insulate all lines with quality foam all around and the buckets with reflectix or similar. I also use reflectix of the tops of the pots to reduce heat infiltration.
As for nutrients...I make all but 1 of the items I use to grow from scratch. Got a whole detailed thread on it here.
https://www.icmag.com/threads/getting-off-the-bottle-how-i-diy-all-my-nutes.18124556/
I wont pay for water. Big nute companies can fuck right off. I make the same or better for 100's of times less. I wont go into a ton of detail here as its your thread but Jacks 321 is the bomb. I use added cal mag that I mix up myself and MPK to. I have went from using 10 or 11 different bottles of Advanced Nutrients for a run to just A, B, cal mag, NPK and silica. I dropped so much from my mix and guess what. Buds were as good or better than ever and some of the cleanest smoke I have ever had. I will never return to buying nutes.
That said I have no issues with people who do. But you can save a ton of MONEY if you know how to measure and mix dry nutes which is stupid simple....Never pay shipping for water again.
Peace, negative.

Thanks for all the resources, I’m definitely gonna go through all of them in the next day or so! Bummer to hear about the water temps but it makes sense! At least nice to have my expectations reeled in!

You are correct there sir. Quality source water is vital. I use R/O water filtered through a UV sterilizer. Best way in my opinion to start. Then either go strerile or live depending on what you prefer. I go live.

My first grow and 1/2 (a story) was with a home built udwc. The growth was amazing . . . but with room temp 70 - 72 degree water, I was always fighting pH swings. imho it has to be chilled. And RO as well to really dial it in. I gave up and moved to coco because it suited me better . . . but there was that amazing growth . . .

Well a chiller is definitely gonna be on the horizon. Unfortunately I am the budget grower to end all budget grows (whoop whoop poverty and inflation ) so that’s gonna take some saving! And on that note… please don’t judge me too hard for the janky set-up! sometimes I like to do a proof of concept for myself and learn via what goes wrong, if you will

Okay after a long day I finally got the system rigged up! Again it’s nothing fancy at all but it’s what I’m working with

Started by cutting out the holes for bulkheads, surprisingly no leaks!

Adding the return pipes

The finished system in my tent

Plants back in their home

 

[negative37dBA]

Looks pretty good from here. Not a exact undercurrent setup but it will function like that. I had my first 2 setups in a similar manner with the water returning to each bucket up top like that.
Look at what a chiller costs in this way....It will provide you with stable water temps that will make the grow actually work versus constantly having to fight with temperature issues. Those high temps could cause you to lose a complete crop or come up short in yield.
What's the cost of a ounce to you of nice finished product?? I live in a legal state and a GOOD ounce will run you 200 to 300 dollars at a dispo. That chiller you buy will be just a bit more than that 1 ounce but will produce hundreds of ounces for you in the future....best investment you will ever make in growing. Take my word for it.
Peace, negative.

 

[negative37dBA]

A couple of notes on the setup...not hating just suggestions. Should of tapped those bulkheads near the bottom of the buckets, create a true undercurrent flow. Plus when you go to drain it water will not drain below that level without some kind of help. Like you did with the rez drill it low. When you can I would upgrade to true Current Culture bulkheads. They will never go bad on you and you can upsize the pipe to 2 or 3 inch to avoid root clogs. I think you are using 1" and that will for sure clog up and you will have to get in there and literally pull roots out of the pipes...can cause it to overflow as well if they clog. The square containers will get you a better seal with the larger bulkheads. Plus you get more water volume with the squares. I see you have no top off rez. You will have to refill it daily with water and nutes to keep things correct...that can be a pain in the ass.
These suggestions would be for a perfect world and you may get by with what you have. Just pointing out some things that can make it ALOT easier for you.
Peace, negative.

 

[EarlyHour]

Looks pretty good from here. Not a exact undercurrent setup but it will function like that. I had my first 2 setups in a similar manner with the water returning to each bucket up top like that.
Look at what a chiller costs in this way....It will provide you with stable water temps that will make the grow actually work versus constantly having to fight with temperature issues. Those high temps could cause you to lose a complete crop or come up short in yield.
What's the cost of a ounce to you of nice finished product?? I live in a legal state and a GOOD ounce will run you 200 to 300 dollars at a dispo. That chiller you buy will be just a bit more than that 1 ounce but will produce hundreds of ounces for you in the future....best investment you will ever make in growing. Take my word for it.
Peace, negative.

A couple of notes on the setup...not hating just suggestions. Should of tapped those bulkheads near the bottom of the buckets, create a true undercurrent flow. Plus when you go to drain it water will not drain below that level without some kind of help. Like you did with the rez drill it low. When you can I would upgrade to true Current Culture bulkheads. They will never go bad on you and you can upsize the pipe to 2 or 3 inch to avoid root clogs. I think you are using 1" and that will for sure clog up and you will have to get in there and literally pull roots out of the pipes...can cause it to overflow as well if they clog. The square containers will get you a better seal with the larger bulkheads. Plus you get more water volume with the squares. I see you have no top off rez. You will have to refill it daily with water and nutes to keep things correct...that can be a pain in the ass.
These suggestions would be for a perfect world and you may get by with what you have. Just pointing out some things that can make it ALOT easier for you.
Peace, negative.

Hey Negative thanks for the critique! I definitely don’t take it as hating don’t worry. I always appreciate feedback!

Definitely a lot to improve on this setup, I can tell already lol. I think the thing with this set up is that I really enjoy diy and tinkering and upcycling stuff when possible so part of the allure was seeing what I could rig up, but even then lots of room for improvement. A lot of it is budget constraints, which ultimately is something that you can’t get around. The other thing is that I was and am unsure of whether or not I want to ultimately keep a RDWC system as my permanent set up. I wanted to experiment a bit without necessarily cornering myself into one method of growing. I mean it’s a badass method but I wanted to give myself some room to breathe so to speak!

Ultimately I’m thinking that after this run, I might disassemble this setup and build a one site system in my 2x4 tent. I think if I scaled it down I could afford to get more quality pieces and better equipment. I guess I’d rather do a small version better than a big version worse! I’ll do no till beds in the big tent, a little more forgiving with my set up.

Additionally I’m in a 130 year old house, so I’m always trying to pay careful attention to how much power I’m pulling and stuff.

Do you think it’d be worth it to build a smaller setup more legit?

 

[tobedetermined]

Do you think it’d be worth it to build a smaller setup more legit?

It is much easier to keep a big volume of water stable and happy than a smaller one - particularly the temperature.

 

[negative37dBA]

Hey Negative thanks for the critique! I definitely don’t take it as hating don’t worry. I always appreciate feedback!

Definitely a lot to improve on this setup, I can tell already lol. I think the thing with this set up is that I really enjoy diy and tinkering and upcycling stuff when possible so part of the allure was seeing what I could rig up, but even then lots of room for improvement. A lot of it is budget constraints, which ultimately is something that you can’t get around. The other thing is that I was and am unsure of whether or not I want to ultimately keep a RDWC system as my permanent set up. I wanted to experiment a bit without necessarily cornering myself into one method of growing. I mean it’s a badass method but I wanted to give myself some room to breathe so to speak!

Ultimately I’m thinking that after this run, I might disassemble this setup and build a one site system in my 2x4 tent. I think if I scaled it down I could afford to get more quality pieces and better equipment. I guess I’d rather do a small version better than a big version worse! I’ll do no till beds in the big tent, a little more forgiving with my set up.

Additionally I’m in a 130 year old house, so I’m always trying to pay careful attention to how much power I’m pulling and stuff.

Do you think it’d be worth it to build a smaller setup more legit?

It will reduce the cost some but the major components all will still be there that cost the most. Water pump, air pump, chiller, ph monitoring. I have reduced mine to a 2 site with 3 containers, 1 is the epicenter. I have noticed a touch more ph drift with the lowered water volume but I have a ph doser that controls that perfectly.
Ultimately it depends on if you want to commit to RDWC. Its tough to put everything together then decide you dont want to do it. It takes a bit of work but for me personally I will NEVER go back to dirt ever again.
I feel like for me there are 2 many advantages to not go this route...that said I have a ton of cheap power available to me so that is not a issue. Hydro can be power heavy.
Peace, negative.
PS...I think I just saw that you have clear air lines. Those can be like light pipes into each bucket and cause issues. Go black always for air.

 

[negative37dBA]

One other option may be to go with a simple flood and drain hydro setup. A "roots out" setup like that depends less on the water temperature being low. I run a f & d in my veg tent. I get amazing results and I never chill the water. Room temp is around 72 summer and as cold as I want it in winter but I dont have issues. Less equipment and 1 of the simplest ways to grown in water I have ever found.
Peace, negative.

 

[EarlyHour]

Hey y’all, little update! I’ve been pretty busy lately so sorry for lack of responses. Systems been working out alright! I can see the limitations that were explained to me already, especially running multiple strains at once.

I’ve been able to keep water temperatures from going absolutely nuts. Keeping my work reservoir outside the tent did actually cool the water by about 5 degrees, but it’s still a little out of range so I’ve been doing the ole’ revolving frozen water bottles to keep ‘em down a bit more. I was running Southern Ag Garden Friendly Fungicide before, but after a res switch I’ve decided to switch to h2o2 and my plants’ roots seem to be doing well.

The two plants in the back had a much tougher time in their individual buckets before the build, and while they seem to be doing better now that I’ve been able to keep the pH more steady, they still are nowhere near as happy as the two up front. All of them could obviously be better.

Side note, I realized my blue lab pH pen is probably kaput. I’ve been using pH test strips instead and a lot of things have been making more sense to me, garden over. I think I was getting bad readings even after calibration.

I officially flipped the lights to flower today. I’m basically limited by the size of the two larger plants. I also in the past have had a real tendency to veg plants too long in an effort to get things just exactly perfectly right, and chase my tail and cause other issues in the process. So to flower they go, I’ll get what I get and learn along the way! Then time to try again come October or so!

I will almost certainly end up taking the advice to move to a flood and drain system ultimately! I do love me some DIY tinkering, but I’d rather pick a setup that I can operate closer to 100% of its potential. I also, (controversially around here maybe ) love me some living soil. It’s always fun experimenting! Thanks negative and tobedetermined for the info and advice!

A couple decently happy and some… less happy

Bonus shot of my cuts taken yesterday, at least I got one thing down!

 

[EarlyHour]

Back for another update! Sorry for the delay! A couple minor tweaks to my system later and things are running about as smooth as I could hope all things given!

These pics were taken on Sunday. The front two still looking pretty solid, back two having a tough time. After tearing into stuff I’m pretty sure it’s due to my stellar diy job not getting enough circulation back there. The tweaks I made were to try and help that.

Picture from today. About the same! Plants in the back maybe a tiny bit happier, not apparent in the pic. 3/4 are lollipopped at this point, gonna do some light defoliation tomorrow.

So far my takeaway is that this whole DWC experiment was super fun and interesting, I don’t think this will be my main growing method. Just a bit too much up front equipment cost to get things to work really well. Ultimately I know coco/high frequency fertigation very well from commercial work, so I’ll probably end up doing that for my hydro.

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

Congrats on finding a way to make them happy, just go ahead and stay updated.