For the clone-experts : Best commercial setup for moms/clones

[Hydro-Soil]

Anyone else love the aweseome root pictures in the wal-mart cloner thread?

Of all the pictures of clones and cloning methods on here... I'm liking the coco cloning and the clones from the wal-mart ice-tube trays the best.

No domes, no trimming leaves, just healthy and well rooted cuts in 2 weeks.

Anyone know how many clones you can fit in a 2'x2' space in those ice-tube trays? They're what, 72 clones per little thingy??

Stay Safe!

 

[MIway]

thnx guys. i just dont understand how you do it without a dome. my cuttings will wilt after a while without dome.

it's just getting the plant to stop it's normal transpiration, which can be done real quickly.

granted i take small cuts... just a single leaf, maybe two, trimmed in half, a new tip & 3-4" of stem.

cup of sterilizing water to hold em in for an hour, stick em like normal, 6 hours of dark. no spraying. say a t5 lamp about 24" to start, then gradually down over the next couple of days.

they never wilt... really low rh to boot.

just cut a tip & try it out. only reasons it wouldn't take is if you snap the stem while inserting... or if the lights are too close to the plants. maybe heat, but never tested it to find out.

i have a long process too, but the gist is still the same. peace.

 

[smurfin'herb]

sounds great but here's my issues: it seems like you're adding a lot of man-hours to the process by having to do all that prep work on the cuttings, not to mention the extra space involved in each cutting getting its own cup. what kind of numbers are you able to manage with this method? i have no problem cutting a 72-plug tray every day without it interrupting the rest of what needs to be done around the shop, i don't see how i would ever be able to make time to scarify stems on each cutting and deal with beer cups at those kind of numbers. not to mention their annoying tendency to be top heavy and easy to knock over when you have a ton (dealt with that before i discovered sheet pots as an alternative for pre-vegging stuff).

. Trimming up cuttings is not very labor intensive or time conusming. Only takes me maybe 5-10% longer than the normal way. I usually hold 3-5 cuttings in ones hand, trim them up, lay the stems next to each other, scarify and slice them simultaneously, then plant.
Yes, it takes extra time to fill up cups with media instead of a tray, but you are eliminating the step in transplanting where you take rooted cuts from a dome insert and plant them into a cup or something of similar size. Assuming you are putting at least some veg time on your plants. Im actually eliminating man hours here.
On taking up space idea.. If your putting a veg time on your plants, then your going to be using at least that much space anyways. example: If you usually veg for 2 weeks on 4x4 table then that means you will have a free open 4x4 slot for all of the cuttings in cups. From there, you just space them out as you grow. If you put a lot of veg time on your plants, and constantly have a full veg table then yes you may need to find more space for your cups. I usually have a free open veg table by the time i need to take cuttings so its never been a problem for me.
As far as space goes if you dont have any. Yes cups will take up about 3 times more space than a dome, and yes you may need to add a couple more flouro's. But how much does a flouro fixture cost? 15 bucks for a t8? And they only draw like 30-50 watts MAX. To me thats not a big deal. I can fit 150 cups in one of those square showers under cfls. Thats what i do if i run outta floor space. If it has an open top, just throw a piece of poly up there for a roof and you shouldnt need to worry bout heat or humidity. Its acts like a dome kind of.

 

[Moppel]

something i wanna share with you :

today i planted rooted cuttings, they were already without dome for 3-4 days. 90% was rooted after 13 days (first on day8) , so thats all good. I was gonna throw away the unrooted cuts, but cause they werent wilting at all, i planted em to see what happened. After 3 hours in 60% humidity (which was the same as the room the were in without domes) , they all wilted.

Why would they wilt after putting em in a beercup and not when they are just in the jiffy?

btw thnx for all the replies, i am sure a lot of people can learn something here.

 

[Veg N Out]

I have also never been able to clone with out domes. I am interested in trying though with some of the methods from this thread

 

[smurfin'herb]

something i wanna share with you :

today i planted rooted cuttings, they were already without dome for 3-4 days. 90% was rooted after 13 days (first on day8) , so thats all good. I was gonna throw away the unrooted cuts, but cause they werent wilting at all, i planted em to see what happened. After 3 hours in 60% humidity (which was the same as the room the were in without domes) , they all wilted.

Why would they wilt after putting em in a beercup and not when they are just in the jiffy?

btw thnx for all the replies, i am sure a lot of people can learn something here.

The only thing i can think of is this... When you take a whole tray of cuttings, they are usually packed in pretty close to each (usually touching/overlapping). This creates a micro climate. Im thinking that those unrooted clones were using moisture from the rooted clones via the micro climate. When you took them and planted em by themselves, you took away their moist environment that they got used to while being under a dome in the tray. Thats my only explanation. Ive never had this problem though and ive taken multiple hundreds of trays of cuts in my lifetime. If i have unrooted clones leftover, i just leave em in the tray and they usually fully root rather quickly (1-3 days). I think they root quicker because of this->... Clones that arent rooted when all others are, are usually the the smaller ones that get shaded out by bigger clones in the tray. They turn a lime green color kind of like the nuggets do on the inside or bottom of a large plant. Anyways, by removing all the rooted clones, you are giving the shaded ones more access to light.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

It has to do with how much moisture is being absorbed by the stem....

That wal-mart, Ice-Tube cloner thread is full of newbs with classy roots and no domes. Get an inch worth of stem growing roots down through the tube...

Stay Safe!

 

[Moppel]

something i wanna share with you :

today i planted rooted cuttings, they were already without dome for 3-4 days. 90% was rooted after 13 days (first on day8) , so thats all good. I was gonna throw away the unrooted cuts, but cause they werent wilting at all, i planted em to see what happened. After 3 hours in 60% humidity (which was the same as the room the were in without domes) , they all wilted.

Why would they wilt after putting em in a beercup and not when they are just in the jiffy?

btw thnx for all the replies, i am sure a lot of people can learn something here.

think i got the answer on my own question :

probaly the 600watt light is too heavy for the unrooted cuts....

@smurfin'herb, i usually also leave em in the the dome to root, but i didnt need em this time so i planted em to see what happened.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

One of the best threads I have found in a while. Directed me to the bonsai thread, which could be a game changer for me.

 

[smurfin'herb]

Walmart cloner thread uses the same concept.

 

[Moppel]

bump...

 

[wdcf]

One of the best threads I have found in a while. Directed me to the bonsai thread, which could be a game changer for me.[/QUOTE


Where'd the link go?...... its no longer in the sig.

 

[Mate Dave]

I had a chance this season to use a commercial glasshouse to test a variety of media's performance under natural light.

I started by using standard mist propagation benches and a standard base heated benches.

I used no rooting hormones.

I graded the cuttings into batches trimmed them all at the same time and dipped the stems in a 16oz cup of R.O water with 2 drops of Superthrive.

Then struck all the cuttings into various trays an watered them in with a watering can with a fine rose attachment.

Both environments had capillary matting and were set up as tunnels with the bases under regulated temperature control between 15-18 c.

The substrate temperature was maintained at this level until weening off.

The mist units were fully automated at 1 mist for 30 seconds per hour. But operational with a manual override.

The aerial environment temperature was maintained at 18-25 c.

The glasshouse operates an aspirated thermostat to control the sunshades and the louvres on hot days as the nursery is heated 24/7 365.

I tested ALL commonly available substrates a nursery would need in a controlled test environment to give me insight into which media suits which environment best and what media suited a particular cutting method.

In conclusion domes are not an essential part of propagation. Plant Material is.

The ideal environment allows minimal water loss from plant materials, allowing adequate light penetration for photosynthesis, supplying warmth and drainage to a media with the correct acidity/alkalinity reaction allowing an atmospheric balance between the temperature of the air and the moisture level of the media to maintain humidity.

Key environmental factors above and below plant propagation materials contribute to the success of both seeds and vegetative propagation as such they need to function correctly, an understanding of how they function helps carry out proper maintenance of both environments.

These environments can be broken down into separate areas of control;

They are the aerial environment and the environment of the medium.

The aerial environment can be broken down into factors such as, temperature, humidity, light transmission and gaseous balance, whereas, the medium environment covers the temperature, moisture status, aeration and the acidity/alkalinity reaction of the media.

Controlling the aerial environment involves maintaining the dew point, which is the temperature at which water vapour, in a volume of humid air, is at a constant barometric pressure and will condense into liquid water.

This water vapour cools around the leaves of cutting and plants. Moisture loss from the leaves is eliminated, encouraging healthy root growth and the leaf surface remains dry preventing moulds.

This environment can be achieved by using self regulating thermostats that keep the temperature in the optimum range for maximum water holding capabilities.

Furthermore, manual operation of a correct watering procedure, implemented with strategic opening of the polythene covers, ensures optimum maintenance of the environment allowing gaseous exchange to take place limiting evaporation and reducing transpiration.

At a high temperature, water vapour pressure deficit is usually high and Relative humidity consequently low and vice verse.

Controlling the media environment is firstly reliant on control of the aerial environment because a too humid or moist conditions increase the chances of infection in the plants.

Temperature needs to be controlled on a daily basis to compliment the fluctuation of the climate and to assist in maintaining a wet and dry cycle to control aeration through correct watering.

This can be done by checking the weight of the propagation container.

Controlling the acidity/alkalinity reaction of the media is done prior to propagation, choosing a suitable substrate to the particular needs of the plant.

If further assistance is required you can supplement the water supply and pre-charge the medium with controlled fertigation with pH suited to that particular plant type.

The least expensive method to maintain environment conditions is to keep the greenhouse dry when going into the night when the temperature drops.

These is no better performance than a mist bench performance in my opinion.

Once you control the "dew point" its very productive.

350 site cell trays are not worth using.

Any plugs including rock-wool are slow and expensive and inferior on many levels compared to Coco, Peat or Perlite which have various applications.

Grow mothers in the ground or mounds as pots and hydro will limit the growth possible.

 

[noworries]

This thread is for people who already know how to make clones and keep moms. so we dont need explanaition about that....

I wanna hear your input about how you would setup , lets say , a 8 x 8 tent with moms, to get the most cutttings in the shortest possible time . What kind of medium, how many moms p light, which lights, etc, etc.

I was cloning with rockwool, just recently started using a ez cloner with the bleach/pool shock formula (copying the "clear rez" stuff). Its hard to beat the cloning time and ease of an aero cloner. I never could get roots in an aero cloner until i started using the bleach/pool shock stuff.

My hard to root strain roots in the same time as my good rooting strain in the ez cloner.

Only real downside I'm seeing vs rockwool is the cubes were SO much easier to pot into coco...kinda delicate and trying to keep them sturdy for the first few days without the block can be a pain.