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sweetestsin420
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Flowering.... trimming fan leaves off....leaving fan leaves on
- Thread starter vapedg13
- Start date
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EShred
ya'll keep saying genetics plays a role in how well defoliation works. So can any of throw out some examples of specific genetics that are/aren't compatible with defoliation?
i've always wondered what breeders did to the strains i gro, like was a strain bred under conditions of NO defol, therefore maybe making it better NOT to defol, or vice versa.... it'd be nice to kno...
sumn to think on.
sumn to think on.
I have been working for a while to attain the same efficiency as vertical lighting with horizontal. The trick lies in training, defoliation and pruning its the trifecta. Still trying to master this. however i do not think i will ever see the same results horizontally as vertically.
Problem with horizontal grow philosophy when contrasted with vertical is the math does not work in favor of horizontal grows.
Nearly every facet of vertical beats horizontal on paper.
You have two choices when you screw in your bulb. For some of us, that choice nets more product...
What grower wants to spend more money on gear that nets less product? The need for arbitrary satisfaction perhaps? Its the shear logic of it that is irrefutable. But I dont need to convince the class, the proof is in our efforts.
From as objective a stance as a man can have, I strongly believe that all strains will react the same way to defoliation.
Meaning, I do not see how one plant "handles" having its leaves taken better than the other.
I think saying genetics play a role is just rhetoric. It has no weight.
All of my veg plants are benefiting, ALL of them.. This can only translate into a better structured plant in bloom.
So my opinion? Genetics mean nothing other than the plant will grow different regardless of what you do, learn the cut, study how she blooms, make adjustments next round..
Its called learning, most guys think there is a shortcut or something....
A quick primer....
When you do a defoliation in veg and then allow the plant to recover... you get more bud sites than you otherwise would.
When stretch is over and the plant is in full "bud swell" mode, the fan leaves have already done their job. You'll notice that even non-defoliated plants will start to use up and shed those fan leaves during flowering.
If you try to rape the plant of all excess fan leaves on one day, you will shock your plant.
If you wait til stretch has ended (plant no longer gets taller day by day) and then remove a few leaves per day until the only leaves left are directly attached to budsites.... (no leaves with stems) you will increase airflow, increase light penetration, etc.
If you REALLY wanted to do a side by side, you'd need to set up two identical rooms and pack them both full and keep the environment, nutes, light, etc. the same for both rooms. One room entirely defoliated. The other room entirely not. Because part of the magic is that light that would've been blocked by plant #1's fans... makes it to plant #2's exposed budsites. And because plant #2 is defoliated, the light also makes it to plant #3's exposed budsites. and so on.
If the whole room is defoliated in this way, you will see a much bigger benefit from defoliation than if you have 6 out of 30 plants defoliated. You may still see a benefit from selective defoliation, but the real magic is when you do the entire room. When NONE of the plants have big hand-sized fan leaves eating light, ALL of the plants get better penetration to the lower buds.
When you do a defoliation in veg and then allow the plant to recover... you get more bud sites than you otherwise would.
When stretch is over and the plant is in full "bud swell" mode, the fan leaves have already done their job. You'll notice that even non-defoliated plants will start to use up and shed those fan leaves during flowering.
If you try to rape the plant of all excess fan leaves on one day, you will shock your plant.
If you wait til stretch has ended (plant no longer gets taller day by day) and then remove a few leaves per day until the only leaves left are directly attached to budsites.... (no leaves with stems) you will increase airflow, increase light penetration, etc.
If you REALLY wanted to do a side by side, you'd need to set up two identical rooms and pack them both full and keep the environment, nutes, light, etc. the same for both rooms. One room entirely defoliated. The other room entirely not. Because part of the magic is that light that would've been blocked by plant #1's fans... makes it to plant #2's exposed budsites. And because plant #2 is defoliated, the light also makes it to plant #3's exposed budsites. and so on.
If the whole room is defoliated in this way, you will see a much bigger benefit from defoliation than if you have 6 out of 30 plants defoliated. You may still see a benefit from selective defoliation, but the real magic is when you do the entire room. When NONE of the plants have big hand-sized fan leaves eating light, ALL of the plants get better penetration to the lower buds.
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sweetestsin420
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Yes. Most of us. Yes.
Yeah I wouldn't go as far as saying specific genetics are compatible and some aren't... Only being that, some strains are more prone to shock that others, obviously. Whether it be defolation, topping, supercropping etc... it all creates stress to the plant that we create in veg, which in turn gives us improved results.
If there's anybody that will say that they can have better yield/results WITHOUT any sort of intentional stress on the plant... regardless of strain... well........
Unless they're a vert grower. Maybe that's a different story... I can't say from personal experience
All strains will benefit from defoliation. More so being that some strains will benefit more than others... Some strains may require less defoliation... but that is because of the obvious and fairly extreme variations in genetics.
I'd say it's somewhat of an acquired skill... like others have said in this thread... there is a bit of a technique to it rather than just stripping the shit out of your garden.
And regardless of strain, growing style, and opinion on defoliation improving results, I can comfortably say that I am posivite everybody and every garden would benefit from SOME defoliation.
In my last garden... I was going to attempt to reduce the amount of aggressive trimming/defoliation. It'd been so long since I had NOT used the technique that I almost kind of forgot what a garden looked like... figured what the hell... Until all those bushy ass leaves blocking the light from hundreds of budsites. Then the onslaught of carefully planned defoliation resumed once again.
[/stoned rambling]
some plants dont have alot of fan leaves and produce huge buds...you dont have to remove any fan leaves if you dont want to due to the genetic trait
some strains have alot of fan leaves
This particluar strain i took all the leaves off 2 weeks prior to takedown
This strain... I take all the leaf off of 3 weeks prior to takedown
exactly due to the way it grows... its genetic/strain trate
now if you remove those leaves on certain strains (like your photo).. you will stun the plant or slow the bud developement
bubbas doin good.... downin the girls this weekend....
PeopleWish
Active member
Fire code prohibits it
i don't have any set times i trim, just when they look to like they need it.
in veg and bloom i'll defo, like vape trimming his the last few weeks of flower
its something i do also, for different reasons maybe
i trim a bunch off prior cut time because its easier to start getting off
whats going to get trimmed when the plant is standing in the pot.
I do disagree,
genetics are a deciding factor, and the reasons have been laid out a head of me by vape
but the main issue of defoliating and whether it works and it does (if done properly)
is something I believe in 100% in my exp.
as i said at the end of my last post:
personally Ive never seen a plant of mine that suffered any ill effects from trimming,
they always do better!
in veg and bloom i'll defo, like vape trimming his the last few weeks of flower
its something i do also, for different reasons maybe
i trim a bunch off prior cut time because its easier to start getting off
whats going to get trimmed when the plant is standing in the pot.
I do disagree,
genetics are a deciding factor, and the reasons have been laid out a head of me by vape
but the main issue of defoliating and whether it works and it does (if done properly)
is something I believe in 100% in my exp.
as i said at the end of my last post:
personally Ive never seen a plant of mine that suffered any ill effects from trimming,
they always do better!
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What are your thoughts?
i think this technique is all based on your strain and style of growing (i.e. small plants in sog vs. big plants in vert)
when working with indica strains like Bubba Kush in a tight SOG i wouldn't be defoliating much, but with big plants of a C99 Sativa leaning strain for example, that are trained sideways to a vert bulb, it's would be super important to defoliate in my opinion...
when working with indica strains like Bubba Kush in a tight SOG i wouldn't be defoliating much, but with big plants of a C99 Sativa leaning strain for example, that are trained sideways to a vert bulb, it's would be super important to defoliate in my opinion...
^^^ great post .\nti!!
i thought it would be interesting to defol one donut but not defol another donut.... instead of one room and one room like u suggest, BUT i agree w u @ 'Best side by side scenario'
I gotta feed, but I want to do the same side by side, Ill post pics in a bit, but I do have two identical gals in bloom right now, and can see what stripping them bare after the stretch does to one of them, they dont really need it, they have hardly any leaves anyways, but in the name of science, fuck it!
