Drewsif
Member
Or maybe you just have horrible dirt where you live? Or lazy microbes? Lots of places in the Us have great soil that's been worked by nature the same way a man would amend it, except for thousands of years.
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flowering organic soil
- Thread starter tree dawg
- Start date
Or maybe you just have horrible dirt where you live? Or lazy microbes? Lots of places in the Us have great soil that's been worked by nature the same way a man would amend it, except for thousands of years.
Oh, I absolutely have horrible dirt (aka sand) where I live. No question about that. I've also lived where the earth is black and it still wouldn't grow a plant like cannabis without being heavily amended. Well, rephrase - it would grow it just fine - it just wouldn't produce dank to the standards I've come to know and expect.
I've lived places where I could go dig dirt and use it as PART of a soil mix, but never as the stand alone, end all be all. In fact, it was recently asked in my current thread, why I wasn't using dirt in my new mix like I was previously in my old mix.
dank.Frank
I've lived places where I could go dig dirt and use it as PART of a soil mix, but never as the stand alone, end all be all. In fact, it was recently asked in my current thread, why I wasn't using dirt in my new mix like I was previously in my old mix.
dank.Frank
I certainly used a large quantity of topsoil in my mixes and in our outdoor we used pretty much straight loamy soil. We were blessed with good bottomland soil which was transplanted to raised beds. As for quality, there was equity with indoor mixes, to the point that supposed experts could not tell the difference.
With that explanation, I have to disagree that the magic is crap.
With that explanation, I have to disagree that the magic is crap.
What means regular soil for you..??
Mine base mix is 70% black soil and 30% wormcastings.. no aerators of any kind.. inside lives worms and plethora of other organismes,think this soil is really alive as i look at plants and defs are very rare..
M
mrghost
I agree with some of the previous answers.
Your soil should be complete before you plant.
I have several different types of compost to add a lot of diversity in my soil and let my soil sit for at least 3 - 4 weeks (often a few months) to make sure it can feed a plant for about half a year. I've used soil without re-amending for over a year with very good results.
Nitrogen is very easy to add from plant based compounds while phosphorus is mostly found in animal products.
I add small amounts of different types of guano to my soil to get a small "P"-kick but mostly rely on nature.
For potash I like to use coconut water. I usually buy a liter, drink half of it and give the rest to my plans. They love it and so do I.
Micorrhizal pathways are more important than the amount of active nutrients.
Your soil should be complete before you plant.
I have several different types of compost to add a lot of diversity in my soil and let my soil sit for at least 3 - 4 weeks (often a few months) to make sure it can feed a plant for about half a year. I've used soil without re-amending for over a year with very good results.
Nitrogen is very easy to add from plant based compounds while phosphorus is mostly found in animal products.
I add small amounts of different types of guano to my soil to get a small "P"-kick but mostly rely on nature.
For potash I like to use coconut water. I usually buy a liter, drink half of it and give the rest to my plans. They love it and so do I.
Micorrhizal pathways are more important than the amount of active nutrients.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
With regard to pots vs beds and outdoors etc.:
Have you guys ever had issues with unevenly distributed nutrients among different pots?
I currently feel like some of my 5gal pots afford the plants with more nutrients than others..
I will test this theory once I have a mum established and can do a run with the same pheno among many pots. So I can rule out genetics as a reason.
But as it stands, it seems to me that some plants are still very green in late flowers while some others still have a week or two to go at least and already look completely spent (very light green leafs, starting to or already yellowing or completely used up and browning etc.).
Not sure how much of that is due to genetics and how much of it is due to the soil in the pot having a bit much of perlite and peat moss and lacking a little EWC, krill meal and other nutrient sources...
I have put a lot of effort into making sure my soil is "well mixed" to avoid these kind of issues but I always feel with the "just" 5 gal pots, I run the risk of having the nutrients being unevenly distributed among them ...
Have you guys ever had issues with unevenly distributed nutrients among different pots?
I currently feel like some of my 5gal pots afford the plants with more nutrients than others..
I will test this theory once I have a mum established and can do a run with the same pheno among many pots. So I can rule out genetics as a reason.
But as it stands, it seems to me that some plants are still very green in late flowers while some others still have a week or two to go at least and already look completely spent (very light green leafs, starting to or already yellowing or completely used up and browning etc.).
Not sure how much of that is due to genetics and how much of it is due to the soil in the pot having a bit much of perlite and peat moss and lacking a little EWC, krill meal and other nutrient sources...
I have put a lot of effort into making sure my soil is "well mixed" to avoid these kind of issues but I always feel with the "just" 5 gal pots, I run the risk of having the nutrients being unevenly distributed among them ...
M
mrghost
So many factors could cause this.
different water consumption
different root strength
location in the grow room (light & wind exposure)
activity of soil life (if you have any)
I've had differences in very similar clones from the same plant in the exact same soil.
I also run 4.5 - 5 gal pots and have used my soil for an entire year with minimal adjustments. I've noticed less differences when the soil is older than 4 months (after about 1 run). My soil is never too hot so I really think it's a sign that the organisms in my soil have moved in and are happy in their home.
I always drop leaves from each plant (healthy material) in the other pots and move soil around (especially mycelium). I think it's more of a head thing but it makes me feel good.
I used to bury manure in my planting holes.
I think that may have contributed to my plants staying green during flower. Don't really know. I stopped doing it.
If you have a good mix, not too strong, and were half ass diligent in mixing, I would say genetics or environment.
Like horseshoes and hand grenades, you soil doesn't have to be perfect.
I think that may have contributed to my plants staying green during flower. Don't really know. I stopped doing it.
If you have a good mix, not too strong, and were half ass diligent in mixing, I would say genetics or environment.
Like horseshoes and hand grenades, you soil doesn't have to be perfect.
Head things are important. They keep you connected. Zen factor is important.
Jimmy says" Be one with the plant."
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Hmm, will post over in my thread with some pics and maybe we can crack that nut.
Since a couple of the plants, especially those under the 315w CMH (instead of the 630w CMH) look a lot better than others, I am not so convinced it is my soil mix. Also most plants had slightly burned tips and a few were slightly clawing on the upper nodes. That would lead me to assume that my soilmix is slightly overabundant which I would consider just right?
But now in late flower, almost all of them look like they are running out of nutrients and not in the good kind of way. More in the "I want to keep flowering but can't" kind of way.
Just culled a 70 day strain (king mamba) pheno at day 65 because it had basically no green leaf mass left. Looked super dried out and basically like it was left to flower for too long. Trichomes tell me otherwise: mostly cloudy with some clear and a little amber here or there...
Only a hand full of plants look as I would expect them at this stage, mostly green with the leafs beginning to be leeched of color and starting to yellow or change color otherwise.
The ones under the 315w CMH all look great leaf wise but they were not defoliated as late and as vigorously as the group under the 630w CMH and also the light is a lot less intense...
Overall I guess I can't say much about my setup or the soil or whatever this round, because I went with that stupid week 4 flower defoliation that kind of ruined everything lol
Honestly the control group that was also defoliated quite fierce but no later than last week of veg, looks leaps and bounds better ...
So maybe I just need to not defoliate like an idiot and then it will be fine ...
Since a couple of the plants, especially those under the 315w CMH (instead of the 630w CMH) look a lot better than others, I am not so convinced it is my soil mix. Also most plants had slightly burned tips and a few were slightly clawing on the upper nodes. That would lead me to assume that my soilmix is slightly overabundant which I would consider just right?
But now in late flower, almost all of them look like they are running out of nutrients and not in the good kind of way. More in the "I want to keep flowering but can't" kind of way.
Just culled a 70 day strain (king mamba) pheno at day 65 because it had basically no green leaf mass left. Looked super dried out and basically like it was left to flower for too long. Trichomes tell me otherwise: mostly cloudy with some clear and a little amber here or there...
Only a hand full of plants look as I would expect them at this stage, mostly green with the leafs beginning to be leeched of color and starting to yellow or change color otherwise.
The ones under the 315w CMH all look great leaf wise but they were not defoliated as late and as vigorously as the group under the 630w CMH and also the light is a lot less intense...
Overall I guess I can't say much about my setup or the soil or whatever this round, because I went with that stupid week 4 flower defoliation that kind of ruined everything lol
Honestly the control group that was also defoliated quite fierce but no later than last week of veg, looks leaps and bounds better ...
So maybe I just need to not defoliate like an idiot and then it will be fine ...
M
mrghost
@bigbadbiddy I go a lot by smell. My soil smells like forest soil. That's a sign of healthy soil with tons of organisms.
I never get any burns on my plants, no curling either.
To me that sounds like too many ready/available nutrients.
Info on your soil and amendments could help solve this problem.
Refresh your mycorrhiza from time to time so nutrients can be transported from every last part of your soil where the roots don't grow.
Use more amendments that need to be broken down by other organisms to prevent initial burns and early fading.
I never get any burns on my plants, no curling either.
To me that sounds like too many ready/available nutrients.
Info on your soil and amendments could help solve this problem.
Refresh your mycorrhiza from time to time so nutrients can be transported from every last part of your soil where the roots don't grow.
Use more amendments that need to be broken down by other organisms to prevent initial burns and early fading.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Unfortunately, at least to me, the smell seems to be changing quite a lot throughout the cycle 
Soilmix:
1/1/1 peat moss, ewc, perlite
Nutes:
- Krill meal
- Kelp meal
- Neemseed cake/pellets
Minerals:
- Various rock dusts (bentonite, lavameel, assorted rock dusts)
- Epsom salts
I don't use dolomite lime, oyster shell flower and the like because my water is very hard and high in Ca.
Stopped adding dolomite lime and oyster shell flower for the first time this grow, doesn't seem to negatively affect them.
I use mycos when transplanting.
I considerably upped the amount of krill and kelp meal over successive grows till I got the current point where I use around double what I started with/what it said in the recipe. That is the first time I noticed ever so slight tip burn and curling on a few phenos top nodes.
Could maybe slightly scale it back again but as it stands I actually watered with compost teas (krill, kelp, ewc, molasses, malted barley) twice, once early, once mid flower. And to me it still seems like most phenos are lacking nutes.
A lot of it could have to do with the stupid defoliation I did though.
Like I said, the plants in the smaller chamber that I didn't defoliate after last week of veg are in mid flower now, too and they look ever so green and ever so healthy with a lot better flower clusters.
Might be I just need to not defoliate like I did next time and maybe have the 630w CMH a bit further away from the canopy ...
Soilmix:
1/1/1 peat moss, ewc, perlite
Nutes:
- Krill meal
- Kelp meal
- Neemseed cake/pellets
Minerals:
- Various rock dusts (bentonite, lavameel, assorted rock dusts)
- Epsom salts
I don't use dolomite lime, oyster shell flower and the like because my water is very hard and high in Ca.
Stopped adding dolomite lime and oyster shell flower for the first time this grow, doesn't seem to negatively affect them.
I use mycos when transplanting.
I considerably upped the amount of krill and kelp meal over successive grows till I got the current point where I use around double what I started with/what it said in the recipe. That is the first time I noticed ever so slight tip burn and curling on a few phenos top nodes.
Could maybe slightly scale it back again but as it stands I actually watered with compost teas (krill, kelp, ewc, molasses, malted barley) twice, once early, once mid flower. And to me it still seems like most phenos are lacking nutes.
A lot of it could have to do with the stupid defoliation I did though.
Like I said, the plants in the smaller chamber that I didn't defoliate after last week of veg are in mid flower now, too and they look ever so green and ever so healthy with a lot better flower clusters.
Might be I just need to not defoliate like I did next time and maybe have the 630w CMH a bit further away from the canopy ...
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M
mrghost
I defoliate in the first and 3rd week after flipping into flower.
1. lollypop with slight fan leaf removal
2. remove all branches that I don't want to keep... THEN open up buds that I want to keep by removing a few fan leaves
I use some of the best LEDs on the market.
I keep a lot of fan leaves since the plants feed on the fan leaves in the 2 last weeks (natural fade) 9 or 13 weeks make no difference. My plants usually fade when they are ready to be harvested.
After that I never touch them again.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
I think defoliation in flower can work and I don't doubt it even gives improved results to some when done right. But it was a total disaster for me.
I definitely didn't do it completely "right" as well and removed way too many fan leafs.
But the other group (that I didn't defoliate after veg) just looks so much better. I doubt I will mess with this technique again.
Probably only removing bottom growth as I did in the past.
I definitely didn't do it completely "right" as well and removed way too many fan leafs.
But the other group (that I didn't defoliate after veg) just looks so much better. I doubt I will mess with this technique again.
Probably only removing bottom growth as I did in the past.
Natural gardener's tip # 64; If your sun leaves are green up until it is time to harvest, it could mean that you have some ionic N still being assimilated by the roots OR it could be a genetic effect. Some varieties do not go into senescence in typical fashion. I've even seen some plants of the same genetics, side by side in the same soil one fading in senescence, the sister remaining green, each with similar floral clusters. A mystery but there must be some altering factor.
Generally when growing naturally and no-till the plant's leaves will go yellow and other colors as she approaches senescence even with remaining sequestered N in the soil. This fact is born out by observing that there is sufficient N to support and begin growth on the new rooted cutting planted after harvest.
Generally when growing naturally and no-till the plant's leaves will go yellow and other colors as she approaches senescence even with remaining sequestered N in the soil. This fact is born out by observing that there is sufficient N to support and begin growth on the new rooted cutting planted after harvest.
M
mrghost
Natural fade
Kali Mist (2017 | Serious Seeds | seed | selected phenotype)
Kali Mist (2017 | Serious Seeds | seed | selected phenotype)
Attachments
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
But if they are yellowing earlier and all over the plant while buds remain relatively small?
Probably should have top-dressed more EWC throughout flower ...
But the control group has been topdressed the same way as the one that looks deficient and it looks green and juicy leading up to the last weeks of flower...
I am currently quite convinced that I just had the 630w CMH way too close to the canopy (~30 cm]. Some of the "deficiencies" I noticed leading up to the last weeks of flower and now at the end stage are definitely heat/light stress/burn.
I would also attribute at least part of the "leeching" of the leaves, them looking all light green/yellow weeks before the end of flower, to the higher intensity light, not only the disastrous defoliation.
Currently doubt that it has much to do with the nutrients I gave the plants because, again, the control group under 315w CMH looks lush and happy at the stage the 630w CMH group was already fading like hell.
