Florida to drug test Welfare recipiients.

[silver hawaiian]

Hazy

I really appreciate your insight. You make some very valid points. I'm not sure that it's a matter of people thinking "Well, if he's smoking herb, he's clearly not looking for a job."

A few things are important to keep in perspective here. Namely, we're not just talking about pot. I know that pot is very near and dear to all of us here (poet, know it, etc.).

To me (and perhaps many of us, though I only speak for this silvery hawaiian), it's not about "Don't smoke pot." It's a matter of priority. Which items in this world should be high priorities to acquire while on government assistance? Which items are considered luxuries and privileges? If we substitute the concept of "getting high" or "smoking weed," with "big car payment," or "lots of strippers," do we really feel the same?

If we simmer it down and take marijuana out of the equation, do we all really feel the same?

 

[Cojito]

In reality people on unemployment or some other gov. benefit programs have very few of these "extras" in life. Of course if some guy swings a bit of weed on the side, how is that on the taxpayer's dime? ... I guess I have softened in my old age. I just have seen and experienced too many hard times to judge anyone as harshly as my conservative peers do anymore. I have also seen a LOT of people who I never thought would leave the rolls of welfare, become productive finally after many years of assistance. Maybe a result of the welfare to work thing from a while back.

All cannabis testing should be opposed. Period.

great post. thanks.

 

[ROJO145]

If we substitute the concept of "getting high" or "smoking weed," with "big car payment," or "lots of strippers," do we really feel the same?

If we simmer it down and take marijuana out of the equation, do we all really feel the same?

LOL!Thats nice except they are not testing for big car payments and strippers!If ya take marijuana out of this issue it becomes not an issue!!

 

[Neo 420]

In reality people on unemployment or some other gov. benefit programs have very few of these "extras" in life. Of course if some guy swings a bit of weed on the side, how is that on the taxpayer's dime?


I think that it is obvious this splits along party/ideologue lines. The folks who are conservative think they have to be in opposition to all liberal/socialist type programs. It's not that they(this site's conservative cannabis users[well, except for shroomDr, who believes if you smoke pot and drive you are a danger]) are opposed people using drugs(at least pot) but to those receiving assistance in general.

As I have defended the rights of those receiving assistance to smoke pot, I get the feeling that I am viewed as a liberal by the conservatives here. But I'm more complicated than that.

See, we moved into a house when I was 13 that had among other political publications, a copy of the Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels. I read it. The experience changed me into a staunch anti-communist. I was opposed to all government assistance programs on these ideological grounds. I became a Republican and voted for Ronald Reagan in the first and second presidential election I voted in. I am still a registered Republican. Until recently I usually voted a straight R ticket.

Over the course of my life I have seen the abuse by many of the 'welfare rolls'. Though welfare is only a shadow of what it used to be. There are many who only get foodstamps and nothing else. There are very few who get it all anymore. People who are on lifelong assistance who are able to work, are the problem and need to be moved from the rolls, but not because they might smoke pot. I have also seen many people who need the assistance they get and to disqualify them because they might use a teeny bit to keep a little weed around is just wrong.

Even though I am generally opposed to taxing me to pay for someone elses needs, I understand that things happen in folk's lives that can force an otherwise proud and productive man to have to swallow pride and sign up for some help.

Now, maybe the guy just needs some unemployment for a while. In this economy, he could easily go a couple years without work. It really troubles me that someone, especially someone who smokes marijuana and knows that it's not a bad thing, would want to disallow the benefits that man is entitled to, that he paid for while he was employed, if that man were to continue to smoke while unemployed. In fact many here would not even let him get a single UE comp check, because he would test + from weed he smoked from money earned while working.

This question was avoided earlier:
Why do some assume because a man smokes pot while unemployed, that he is not looking for work?

After all, the penalties for fraud are steep, they have ways to check for fraud and do verify your job searches.


People on assorted assistance programs for the right reasons do not need to be despised even by us conservatives, and if they sacrifice one thing to afford a little pot, that's no concern of mine or anyone else. They're not spending 'extra' money on weed, just tightening the belt somewhere else.

People on assistance programs for the wrong reasons, well, who cares what they do with their pittance. And remember, when you're in a store and that person in front of you whips out that card with the benes on it, you do not know what they are using. Could be SSI from a disability caused at work. All on the same card, you don't know.

I guess I have softened in my old age. I just have seen and experienced too many hard times to judge anyone as harshly as my conservative peers do anymore. I have also seen a LOT of people who I never thought would leave the rolls of welfare, become productive finally after many years of assistance. Maybe a result of the welfare to work thing from a while back.

And, this is all I have left to say on this subject, All cannabis testing should be opposed. Period.

Awesome read.......You nailed it...

 

[silver hawaiian]

LOL!Thats nice except they are not testing for big car payments and strippers!If ya take marijuana out of this issue it becomes not an issue!!

Interesting, .. So we care about needless spending, as long as it's not reefer?

I'll respect it, but I don't understand it.

 

[Cojito]

it's not about "Don't smoke pot." It's a matter of priority.

exactly. a matter of priority. right now we've prioritized bailing out big biz, banks, 2 or 3 lovely wars, an expensive and failed drug war, massive tax cuts for the rich. - so why are we fighting over welfare pennies? why are we angry with the poor or with teachers? they didn't run this country into a ditch.

If we simmer it down and take marijuana out of the equation, do we all really feel the same?

i'm calm. and i'm not gonna shit on the 4th amendment in exchange for a few potential bucks. you'd need to offer up a seriously persuasive argument for that (public safety, national emergency etc).

 

[Cojito]

Interesting, .. So we care about needless spending, as long as it's not reefer?

don't think we can or want to micromanage their lives. not sure we'll ever agree on what's "needless." just give em help and hope they work it out. we got bigger fish to fry.

 

[silver hawaiian]

exactly. a matter of priority. right now we've prioritized bailing out big biz, banks, 2 or 3 lovely wars, an expensive and failed drug war, massive tax cuts for the rich. - so why are we fighting over welfare pennies? why are we angry with the poor or with teachers? they didn't run this country into a ditch.

Ohhhhh! Yes. I would LOVE to discuss TARP, the war on drugs, resentment towards teachers, the current education system.. Cojito, believe it or not, I'll bet we see more from the same angle than you'd think.

i'm calm. and i'm not gonna shit on the 4th amendment in exchange for a few potential bucks. you'd need to offer up a seriously persuasive argument for that (public safety, national emergency etc).

Sorry, maybe I misspoke. I didn't mean for anyone HERE to simmer down, .. I meant that if we simmer down the argument, boil it down to the true nuts and bolts, etc..

 

[silver hawaiian]

don't think we can or want to micromanage their lives. not sure we'll ever agree on what's "needless." just give em help and hope they work it out. we got bigger fish to fry.

Agreed. That's the slippery slope I was talking about earlier.. How do we all quantify what's NECESSARY?

Again, my responses & beliefs are based in philosophy.. Like any philosophy, the next step is PRACTICE. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But that doesn't change my philosophical belief.

Plenty of bigger fish to fry. I'm just glad the Fed is printing money like it's going out of style..

/speaking of bigger fish..

<-- That's for da gubment

 

[trichrider]

the correlation to the passage of this law and the classification of cannabis by the nixon proteges is my position.
rarely do these laws reveal their characteristics until after the fact, when it's too late.

here we are 50 yrs later and that policy is causing enormous harm to good people, still, with no end in sight...are we to allow this to be another boondoggle at our expense? have we not learned anything other than how to land man on moon, or connect everyone on planet wirelessly?

transcending contentious emotions for the betterment of all? (disregard if you reside within the top 10% income bracket)...a seemingly more noble experiment than arguing fairness for some, but inflammatory to many.

there are so few people paying attention to what the 'public servants' are doing that this is lost in the forest.

splash some cold water on your faces and blink through the cottoneyes; we're down by four on our own ten yard line with seconds left in the game.

 

[THE PABLOS]

Go deep...

 

[Brother Bear]

I had a good time reading this thread. Hazy you know i love ya bro And i think you nailed it. Some of the other posts i read though, well.........

 

[trichrider]

i bring chicken nuggets to the show and DiscoBisquit brings Chicken Breasts with Capers sauce, Brown Rice, and baked Plantains in Casava sauce. Good on him, eviscerating me was pretty much necessary, he likes Florida alot! i guess people like me bring out the best in him.
I got sucked in, it's an old thing with me.
my responses were human, forgive me that, but nonetheless meaningful.

i will now temper further posts with the humility derived from this thread.

peaceful thoughts.

trichrider

 

[THE PABLOS]

Nice thread....great posts....great arguments...

Bottom line is the testing will solve nothing positively. Welfare...imo...was intended to keep one stereotype out of another stereotype's neighborhoods. It is one group of peeps saying "we will pay your rent to keep you out of our sight"......it is not intended as a helping hand.

If it were any other way...or for any other purpose...there would not be all these generations of recipients and it would not have lasted so long in such a demographical fashion.

This drug testing program is dangerous for many reasons (as some have already pointed out).....and will be a cluster fuck of expenses leading more folks to the prison systems (to be supported in that fashion).....justifying the building of such institutions...employing more LEO types....bulking up the weight on the fascist side of the scale.

The current system is based on racism.....drug testing will further that along.....until it is every man standing in the testing line.

 

[trichrider]

Nice thread....great posts....great arguments...

Bottom line is the testing will solve nothing positively. Welfare...imo...was intended to keep one stereotype out of another stereotype's neighborhoods. It is one group of peeps saying "we will pay your rent to keep you out of our sight"......it is not intended as a helping hand.

If it were any other way...or for any other purpose...there would not be all these generations of recipients and it would not have lasted so long in such a demographical fashion.

This drug testing program is dangerous for many reasons (as some have already pointed out).....and will be a cluster fuck of expenses leading more folks to the prison systems (to be supported in that fashion).....justifying the building of such institutions...employing more LEO types....bulking up the weight on the fascist side of the scale.

The current system is based on racism.....drug testing will further that along.....until it is every man standing in the testing line.

this wasn't about 'welfare' in the sense that we take care of these unfortunates.

UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS are taxes you have already paid into a fund; normally matched by the employer, to be excercised after you become unemployed.

this is not welfare!

it is an insurance policy designed to provide for the hard times we are experiencing atm.

the gulliblement wants you to feel guilty about garnering this benefit even though you (and your previous employer) have already funded it.
Sshheesh, there is no dishonor claiming what is yours!!!
So what they make you jump through hoops to retrieve moneys you have invested through sweat equity?

i see no problem collecting what 'they' said 'they' were saving for you for some 'rainy day' scenario/eventuality.

PROTECTING 'THEIR' INTERESTS is what i see.

if 'THEIR" interests involve depriving deserving people of their vested monies in a time when those monies are constantly being devalued, then the system is broken, and designed to provide for 'them'.

Ranting against these disparities will only inform those affected; trickle down effect is misnomer, what trickles down is the effluent from the unaffected, should be renamed trickle up effect.

although i may have had a taste tonight, it fuels my indignation so that i may relate my displeasure at what has transpired.

the real meat of the subject is the prospect of denial of benefits already ensured through FICA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits

through the biological testing for illicit substances.

you need to give consent for them to do this, unless arrested, so you have to play their rules...doesn't preclude you from collecting if you can pass.

length of time that cannabis stays in your system compared to other more frightful inebrients discriminates against cannabis ingestants solely on the basis that it is stored in your fatty tissue and takes months to eliminate compare to harder drugs.

which is where the hypocracy of gov rick manifests.

rant over.

tr

 

[zymos]

In related news:
Florida governor retreats on worker drug tests

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/16/us-usa-florida-drugtest-idUSTRE75F6BJ20110616

 

[RollmeoneKenobi]

Glad to read that people are getting fed up with the need to inspect us with a microscope.

 

[trichrider]

In related news:
Florida governor retreats on worker drug tests

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/16/us-usa-florida-drugtest-idUSTRE75F6BJ20110616

no mention whatsoever of the testing of disaffected.
with that much pressure on state employee testing from ACLU, one might hope it would carry over to the unemployed.

 

[Pallidus127]

Wonder if they're also testing them for nicotine and alcohol... my gut says no.

 

[wemary]

well maybe the governors and everyone else needs to get drug tested then?