First time cloning(in progress)

[Black5now]

Hi everyone,

I cut 8 clones from a female and 2 from male(just for my entertainment) on the 16th of April. I stuck'em in a prop with temps being 20-25°C and humidity above 80% at all times. They are under a 78W LED lamp, away approx. 20-30 cm.
I used clonex and tap water with ph 6 to soak the wool.

I am now wondering, if these look ok to you?

I did not want to cut the leafs, because I figured that's where the plant gets it's essential nutes for rooting, and the leafs will eventually yellow and dry up, fall off as the roots grow.

How far off track am I? Should I change anything?


Here are the pics

Any advice is much appreciated
Cheers guys!

 

[maryjanesdad]

its been 10 days so you should see roots. cubes look like they are water logged, but i dont clone in rockwool so i could be wrong.

the clones with the shoots on top look ok. again roots should be coming out the wool.

 

[Black5now]

its been 10 days so you should see roots. cubes look like they are water logged, but i dont clone in rockwool so i could be wrong.

the clones with the shoots on top look ok. again roots should be coming out the wool.

Thanks for the reply...no roots, I transplanted almost all into soil, they weren't even rooting for some reason... When I pulled them out, 5 of them seemed to start rooting(base of the stem was really really smelly(the good smell though) and turned white, but no actual roots were spotted -.-). I think 2 or maybe 3 will survive, but I'm not sure yet.

In the meantime, I have cut some new clones and just placed them in small soil pots, I also cut the fan leafs for a change and see where it gets me. They are looking way better than previous cuts did.

What could I be doing wrong if my clones aren't rooting? I watered the rock wool I found in the attic(could it be the dust on it?) with pHed water(ph=6) and they were under a 25°C propagator with constant 78W of light. Any ideas?

 

[Pulsar]

With RW you should soak in roughly 5.5 before using. A couple of the cubes do look a little water logged. After soaking flick out as much water as you can out the bottom end without squeezing the cubes. Also, what's your method prior to placing in the cubes? Did you just dip a dull cut or did you make a clean razor cut and gently shave a bit of the stem?
Couple other thoughts: 78 W of LED 20 cm above the cuts is a bit much. One T5 tube like a foot above the tray is fine. They don't need all that light in this stage. Personally have had much better luck with Dip n Gro and get roughy 100% rates every time in RW and peat

 

[willyweed]

pre soak rockwool cubes for 24 hours i normally use ph 5 for the pre soak and then check the run off ph 5.5 6.2 is what you want .hold the cubes up on their corner and let excess water run off.then use something small to pierce a hole in the cube.with the cutting themselves i cut off the plant more than i need using wet blade and stand in water then for your final cut .fill a saucer or small bowl with some water lay the cutting in the water and make a final cut 45 degree's across the stem keeping it under water as not to get an air bubble(=death) then dip into clonex ect for 10 to 15 seconds when removing from the clonex try to scoop a bit of it up on the cutting and gently place in the pre made hole in the rockwool slightly squeesing the hole shut you could also use a pencil ect to push the top of the hole shut.then place into the propogator heated bottom spray the leaves lightly with tap water (also you could cut some of the leaf about half, some times it makes the roots come faster) put the lid on and wait never let the rockwool cubes dry out and spray the leaves daily with water this should keep the humidity nice and high. do not keep the cubes stood in water ,as this it too wet.7-10 later should have some winners good luck .willyweed ps i only use a tiny bit of feed after i see roots not before 10% ish

 

[Pulsar]

pre soak rockwool cubes for 24 hours i normally use ph 5 for the pre soak and then check the run off ph 5.5 6.2 is what you want .hold the cubes up on their corner and let excess water run off.then use something small to pierce a hole in the cube.with the cutting themselves i cut off the plant more than i need using wet blade and stand in water then for your final cut .fill a saucer or small bowl with some water lay the cutting in the water and make a final cut 45 degree's across the stem keeping it under water as not to get an air bubble(=death) then dip into clonex ect for 10 to 15 seconds when removing from the clonex try to scoop a bit of it up on the cutting and gently place in the pre made hole in the rockwool slightly squeesing the hole shut you could also use a pencil ect to push the top of the hole shut.then place into the propogator heated bottom spray the leaves lightly with tap water (also you could cut some of the leaf about half, some times it makes the roots come faster) put the lid on and wait never let the rockwool cubes dry out and spray the leaves daily with water this should keep the humidity nice and high. do not keep the cubes stood in water ,as this it too wet.7-10 later should have some winners good luck .willyweed ps i only use a tiny bit of feed after i see roots not before 10% ish

Agree for the most part except for the air bubble myth. It's totally bogus. Cuts are fine made in the open air

 

[Black5now]

With RW you should soak in roughly 5.5 before using. A couple of the cubes do look a little water logged. After soaking flick out as much water as you can out the bottom end without squeezing the cubes. Also, what's your method prior to placing in the cubes? Did you just dip a dull cut or did you make a clean razor cut and gently shave a bit of the stem?
Couple other thoughts: 78 W of LED 20 cm above the cuts is a bit much. One T5 tube like a foot above the tray is fine. They don't need all that light in this stage. Personally have had much better luck with Dip n Gro and get roughy 100% rates every time in RW and peat

Why 5.5?

I did not flick the cubes that much, I just soaked them in water and squeezed till all the air was pushed out, and I drained them by squeezing with hands...

I cut the stem with scissors bought from a grow shop(sharp and clean), and cut the cutting in approximately 45° angle, then spliced it in half for a good cm(shown in tutorial), I did not however shave it this time, dipped it for about 30 seconds in Clonex rooting hormone and placed it in soaked RW.

I did the same thing with the new batch, only difference is the moised soil. Cloned on the 25th of April.

New batch

Old batch(in the 11L pot, 17 days old today), mother plant next to it, don't mind the little pot, and the clones

I used the 78W lamp because I could build it for free. This lamp however is not a 78, but 160W, again, because I was able to build it for free, and it seemed a good idea to have more light(without the heat it brings).

 

[Black5now]

pre soak rockwool cubes for 24 hours i normally use ph 5 for the pre soak and then check the run off ph 5.5 6.2 is what you want .hold the cubes up on their corner and let excess water run off.then use something small to pierce a hole in the cube.with the cutting themselves i cut off the plant more than i need using wet blade and stand in water then for your final cut .fill a saucer or small bowl with some water lay the cutting in the water and make a final cut 45 degree's across the stem keeping it under water as not to get an air bubble(=death) then dip into clonex ect for 10 to 15 seconds when removing from the clonex try to scoop a bit of it up on the cutting and gently place in the pre made hole in the rockwool slightly squeesing the hole shut you could also use a pencil ect to push the top of the hole shut.then place into the propogator heated bottom spray the leaves lightly with tap water (also you could cut some of the leaf about half, some times it makes the roots come faster) put the lid on and wait never let the rockwool cubes dry out and spray the leaves daily with water this should keep the humidity nice and high. do not keep the cubes stood in water ,as this it too wet.7-10 later should have some winners good luck .willyweed ps i only use a tiny bit of feed after i see roots not before 10% ish

Thanks, I'll try it next time under water, with shaving, and ph like you guys said! Still hope these guys make it though... I'll report back in a few days if I made it with soil ''method''

 

[intotheunknown]

light needs to be minimal. I use 1-2 15w CFLs about a foot away. and use high kelvin rating cfls (blue spectrum) 75* is optimal.
unfortunately the top pictures of those clones appear to be a done deal. toss them.

I would trim off most of those leaves, leave the tops on and 1-2 sets below, then snip the ends of the leaves off of the bottom 1 or 2 sets. this will allow them to "breath" better.

I always clone with a humidity dome, mist the dome with good clean water and do not mist the cuts. keep humidity as high as possible for about 5 days. then start to prop the lid open here and there to allow fresh air in. if they droop they arent ready. repeat this process until you see roots.

another key factor in cloning is the mediums moisture level. not too wet. not too dry. maintain that level.

I NEVER bother with PH. no need to. never had an issue with it.

 

[Pulsar]

Why 5.5?

I did not flick the cubes that much, I just soaked them in water and squeezed till all the air was pushed out, and I drained them by squeezing with hands...

I cut the stem with scissors bought from a grow shop(sharp and clean), and cut the cutting in approximately 45° angle, then spliced it in half for a good cm(shown in tutorial), I did not however shave it this time, dipped it for about 30 seconds in Clonex rooting hormone and placed it in soaked RW.

I did the same thing with the new batch, only difference is the moised soil. Cloned on the 25th of April.

New batch
View Image




Old batch(in the 11L pot, 17 days old today), mother plant next to it, don't mind the little pot, and the clones
View Image


I used the 78W lamp because I could build it for free. This lamp however is not a 78, but 160W, again, because I was able to build it for free, and it seemed a good idea to have more light(without the heat it brings).

Its so alkaline that it needs to be stabilized. A pH 6 soak isn't going to bring it down enough.
Don't ever squeeze the cubes. Those air pockets within the cubes arè your friends.Flick the excess out without squeezing
That is way too much light for unrooted cuts.Might try moving the domes off to the side a bit

 

[Black5now]

light needs to be minimal. I use 1-2 15w CFLs about a foot away. and use high kelvin rating cfls (blue spectrum) 75* is optimal.
unfortunately the top pictures of those clones appear to be a done deal. toss them.

I would trim off most of those leaves, leave the tops on and 1-2 sets below, then snip the ends of the leaves off of the bottom 1 or 2 sets. this will allow them to "breath" better.

I always clone with a humidity dome, mist the dome with good clean water and do not mist the cuts. keep humidity as high as possible for about 5 days. then start to prop the lid open here and there to allow fresh air in. if they droop they arent ready. repeat this process until you see roots.

another key factor in cloning is the mediums moisture level. not too wet. not too dry. maintain that level.

I NEVER bother with PH. no need to. never had an issue with it.

The old batch or new batch is finished? I'm confused which picture you mean as the first, the 1st of the thread itself, the ones in the 11L pot? If so, yeah, I figured there were done for, just thought I'd try'em anyways..

If the you meant the 2nd picture of the clones(the new batch), I'm gonna be sad and pissed at the same time, but I guess you gotta kiss a few frogs before you get to kiss a princess.

Roger on the leafs, I'll cut off the big ones. And I'll start opening the air locks inch by inch as the days go by.

 

[Pulsar]

You don't need to toss all of those cuts. Maybe one total loss from what I can see. You can try simply recutting and re dipping.

 

[intotheunknown]

no no. not the new ones... in the very first picture is what i meant.
once they droop and wilt like that, they most of the time dont ever come back.
once i take cuts they droop just slightly after putting them into RR (my preferred medium)
they pop right back up and never droop again. this is what you should be seeing from your cuts.

hope that all this info helps. if you have any other questions id be happy to answer them. hope all works out well for you.

 

[intotheunknown]

also something that may help you out as far as snipping leaves (for reference)
check out JJ Scorpio's thread called "cloning with JJ Scorpio" some very good points in that thread, and i use a very similar method with 100% success rates.

 

[Black5now]

I tossed the old batch away, the funny thing when I pulled the first one out...it had roots...and lots of'em(others did not root at all, the stem was dried up and felt hard)

It's probably nothing to you guys, but for me it's a step forward, at least I see it's possible

Anyways, I shut down 1 power supply of the lamp, so I'm now running this ''set-up'' under a 78W light, keeping the clones in the corner where least of the light is(it's not dark at all, just less lit up)

I searched JJ Scorpio's clone guide as you suggested Intotheunknown, but no luck(was a quick search though), I'll be sure to give it a read.
I also took your advice Puls and recut at redip two of the clones that were droopy, and snip off the fan leafs...


......and now we wait......

 

[Black5now]

Clones are not rooting at all after 9 days! The ends of the stems seem to be drying up, it almost looks like mold is accumulated on them, white dots on some of'em. They are under 16W light, soil is moised at all times, spraying them from time to time. The interesting thing is, the leafs don't drop, they still look healthy green..

Gonna give it another try with 1 clone soon, with RW soaked in ph 5.5 (check run off water ph after soaking the cube)

 

[willyweed]

sounds like they are starting to root ! your looking for little white bumps, up to 20 days is not unusual in non optimal conditions .be patient and keep the leaves a bit damp .do you have a dome over them?

 

[Black5now]

sounds like they are starting to root ! your looking for little white bumps, up to 20 days is not unusual in non optimal conditions .be patient and keep the leaves a bit damp .do you have a dome over them?

Is RH=above 80% at all times, T=20-25°C at all times, 16W light 24/7 non optimal? I was under the impression it was nothing but...well except the soil...

I was told they should root in about 10 days, so I was frustrated at this point and started to convince myself it was the genetics and the soil's fault...

Yes, I'm using a propagator, so everything's covered. See pictures.

 

[Black5now]

-.-'

NOT ROOTING! They're still green and look healthy, but I can pull them out and see absolutely NO roots! What the hell am I missing!

I cut a new clone yesterday, and put it in a RW cube soaked in tap water (pH=5.5). Leafs haven't dropped yet, so I'll see what happens with this one.

 

[Pulsar]

-.-'

NOT ROOTING! They're still green and look healthy, but I can pull them out and see absolutely NO roots! What the hell am I missing!

I cut a new clone yesterday, and put it in a RW cube soaked in tap water (pH=5.5). Leafs haven't dropped yet, so I'll see what happens with this one.

Just have to give them time. 10 days is about right, sometimes you'll have roots within a week. If the stems are more woody than soft it can even be a couple weeks.. As mentioned the white" dots" are the plant beginning to root. If you had mold issues the cut site would be slimy and grey. Just let them be. With the Rockwool: more air than water is the key. Those stems require less water than you might think to root. I personally prefer peat plugs.