First time building a semi self sustaining soil mix opinions on Ingredients needed!

[Klompen]

I have used it quite a bit over the years and never regretted it. Aging your coco properly makes a big difference.

 

[wetdog]

I have used it quite a bit over the years and never regretted it. Aging your coco properly makes a big difference.

Cool !!

I stated my caveat, but if your experience has been different .... Of course you go with the experience. That's just good common sense, sticking with what you know works.

But you also know that if something goes sideways you at least have a clue on where to look.

It's all good!

Wet

 

[Klompen]

You definitely can't feed it the same way you feed peat. pH matters more, even in an organic grow. Still, coco has a lot of benefits. For one thing its damn near impossible to drown plants when they're in a significant percentage of coir.

 

[KIS]

Soil testing doesn't give you a complete picture since it only shows available nutrients. So relying on it 100% I think is not wise? Many growers get great results without ever doing a soil test, I would do one for shits and giggles after a few runs just to see what is starting to build up high and then avoid adding that in the next couple of amendment rounds.

Really depends on the soil test. A saturated paste or soil savvy test would show available nutrients but a strong acid extraction like a Meilich III will show what’s in the soil but not what’s currently available. This make getting the two of them together very useful in making decisions.

 

[CannaRed]

Then you will end up learning the hard way if you do any sort of LOS soil.

Coco works great when microbes aren't involved to a large degree and it's mostly bottled nutes being used. Drain to waste, hempy buckets, that sort of set up.

When microbes enter the picture in a LOS, no till type of deal where the microbes break down the amendments (and the mix), coco has a nasty habit of leaching toxic amounts of K and salts as it composts/breaks down from microbe activity.

You end up with toxic overloads and no clue where they're coming from.

Wet

This my be what's going on with my mix. I somewhat followed coots mix but used 1/6 peat and 1/6 Coco instead of the 1/3 peat. How could I rectify this situation?

Leaf tips slightly burnt, rust color patches showing up.

 

[Vanilla Phoenix]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=341374&styleid=111

My boy swears by this mix.

 

[wetdog]

This my be what's going on with my mix. I somewhat followed coots mix but used 1/6 peat and 1/6 Coco instead of the 1/3 peat. How could I rectify this situation?

Leaf tips slightly burnt, rust color patches showing up.

I really have no idea of any "fix" if the leaching has started or ongoing other than a fresh mix that contains no coco. It's pretty much beyond repair, like burnt butter, you can't 'un burn' it.

Depending on where the growth stage is and how much mix is involved you could either ride it out and make fresh mix with peat only for the future, or do it now if it's still early in the grow.

You could also spring for a soil test (~$40), to be sure that this is actually happening and it is not something else that is causing your plant issues.

Some heavy duty decisions to be made.

Wet

 

[Klompen]

This my be what's going on with my mix. I somewhat followed coots mix but used 1/6 peat and 1/6 Coco instead of the 1/3 peat. How could I rectify this situation?

Leaf tips slightly burnt, rust color patches showing up.

Its very hard to conclude what is causing your problem based on such limited info, but with only 1/6th coco in the mix its highly unlikely it is burning your plants.

Potassium in coco is not going to burn your plants if you treat it right. I have used coco many times and reused it many times. I have also known folks who grow organic in an almost entirely coco substrate and reuse it again and again.

There's a couple of things you should keep in mind about the potassium in coco, however. First off, its not good to let your mix dry out too much in a coco grow. This tends to put the potassium salts back into the fibers. Also, you should feed the plant very differently than you feed a plant in peat. With beneficials, you can get K out of the coir and make it available to the plant; so you want to be careful amending with K. If you don't pay attention to it you can end up loading it up with too much K over time instead of consuming it like intended. Its also very important to feed and water with a little bit lower pH than traditional soil. Keeping your incoming pH between 6.2-6.6 is important.

 

[Lost in a SOG]

The lab guidelines I've seen usually say wait 3 months after any fertilizer application to a mix before sending in soil samples.. because it takes that long for pH and everything to settle down..

 

[Squirly_wrath]

I've been using straight coco and dry amendments technically no-till for 4 years now and haven't noticed any problems with leaching. As long as I keep my water pH 6 the plants are happy.

 

[sativaking]

So happy i started this thread thanks to everyone for contributing.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I really have no idea of any "fix" if the leaching has started or ongoing other than a fresh mix that contains no coco. It's pretty much beyond repair, like burnt butter, you can't 'un burn' it.

Depending on where the growth stage is and how much mix is involved you could either ride it out and make fresh mix with peat only for the future, or do it now if it's still early in the grow.

You could also spring for a soil test (~$40), to be sure that this is actually happening and it is not something else that is causing your plant issues.

Some heavy duty decisions to be made.

Wet

I had something similar going on with my soil mix previously. But it was buckwheat hulls instead of coco.
The Buckwheat hulls were a more organic alternative to perlite, same as coco is an alternative to peat moss.


However, just like what wet mentioned can happen with coco, the buckwheat hulls were leeching absurd amounts of nitrogen from the soil mix and apparently also other nutrients and causing all kinds of issues.
I was chasing my tail for nearly a year, trying to fix everything about my water, watering habits, PH in soil and water, tried this or that tea, tried topdressing this or that, cover crops, you name it.
Even worse: A direct result of the plants getting sick due to the buckwheat hulls mess, was breakouts of fungus gnats. So I was trying to fight those with all hands on deck and a lot of my effort went into this.
In the end, it is quite likely (currently having a run to confirm) that it was all due to the buckwheat hulls, the last place I checked.
I also had a bit of coco in my soil mix (replaced part of the peat with it) just to mix it up. So who knows if the coco also played a role in my issues and not just the buckwheat hulls. The coco bricks were also not pure coco but had some nutrient additives... Poor choice on my part.



Due to my own experience, I would take the call to caution by an experienced oldtimer very seriously. If Coco could potentially have similar adverse effects as the buckwheat hulls did for me (mine were likely also treated with some anti fungicide or something which would explain the magnitude of issues they caused and how fast it happened, even better), then that would be enough reason for me not to mess with coco.


Personally I did the research as wet and others have stated and came to the conclusion that using coco is actually worse than using peat for the environment as a whole. Maybe if I start a farm or get into much larger volumes, I would revisit the topic. For our small hobby settings, I would choose peat every time.




And in my case with the buckwheat hulls, starting a new batch of soil without them, was indeed the only way to fix the issue. I tried working perlite into the mix to combat compaction issues due to the composting buckwheat hulls, I tried to massively up the N content by amending loads of blood meal and EWC etc. etc. all for naught.

 

[Microbeman]

Then you will end up learning the hard way if you do any sort of LOS soil.

Coco works great when microbes aren't involved to a large degree and it's mostly bottled nutes being used. Drain to waste, hempy buckets, that sort of set up.

When microbes enter the picture in a LOS, no till type of deal where the microbes break down the amendments (and the mix), coco has a nasty habit of leaching toxic amounts of K and salts as it composts/breaks down from microbe activity.

You end up with toxic overloads and no clue where they're coming from.

Also, that whole BS deal about saving the bogs and the depletion of a finite resource was all a smear campaign from the (new), coco industry to gain market share.

Canada has a HUGE amount of bogs and the peat industry is very tightly regulated and controlled AFA how much and where peat moss can be harvested.

This can be easily researched along with the coco industry's scare campaign, if you care to do some digging. Canada is not about to let their peat bogs/peat industry get fucked over from unregulated harvesting. Not like the destruction the coco industry is causing from clear cutting forests/jungles and planting huge mono crops of coco trees.

Plus the basic fact that peat moss out performs coco as a growing medium.

It's a LOT of reading and research in several different directions for both the differences as growing mediums and the differences in harvesting/growing practices involved. It's a real eye opener once you get past all the internet myth and hype and get to the actual facts.

Wet

Could not have said it better myself.