First Microgrow Stealth Cab Planning

[Karl Sparx]

Hello,

I am a first time grower planning my first build and grow. I am a bio student, so I am finding this entire process completely fascinating.

I feel I have a strong grasp of the overarching process involved, but there are lots of variables I simply don't have the experience to dial in.

Any help in putting together the remaining peices of cab design, and grow planning are sincerely appreciated. Stealth, yield, and affordability are all equally important to me in this project. I am more interested in organic methods, but I am willing to consider other methods if they are worthwhile.

Here is the cab in place, I picked it up for only 30 dollars.


Stealth Cabinet Set up
Cab size: L23,W 23,H 30
Lighting:
CFL I like different colors for vegging and growing, cost efficiency, easily replaceable. / HID: Bigger yields.
Number of Lights, Color Ratio: ?
For Vegetation: 6500K
Flower: 2700K
Light Schedule: 18/6 --> 12/12 Light
Interior: Matte white paint
Ventilation?
Odor Removal?

Cultivation: Big bang or white widow
Grow Medium: Organic soil
Nutrients: ?
Pot size:1.6 oz veg, 3 gallon nursery pots
Number of Plants:3-4
Training Method:Modular scrog

Thank you for your patience and your guidance as I undertake this project.

 

[Guest 263194]

Can't wait to see it man. do the soil grow and I would clean up the floor before I start growing

 

[Karl Sparx]

The floor is clean, It's just an old floor.

 

[dragon.gamer80]

don't use mylar, it leaves a small space between the mylar and inside walls for bugs and mold to grow. use simple flat white paint and paint the whole interior. small spaces and high heat from hrows in a kitchen can add fluxuations with heat and humidety, wich all have a factor in indoor growing. less dark spots increase the chances of a successful grow. GL and i do like the idea of a grow cab in the kitchen. keep us posted

 

[pinecone]

CFL 42's? I'd be looking into the PL-L lighting or a 150w HPS

Number of Lights, Color Ratio: Cooler-Bluer-Whiter light will given you much less stretch in flowering which is a good think considering you only have 30" of height.

Interior: Mylar? flat white paint would be as reflective, easier to apply, and more durable.

Ventilation? Depends on the light to some extent. If you put an HID in there you probably want a nice 4" centrifugal fan. I have a Vortex fan and really like it, but there are probably some other good brands. I'm not really up on this stuff as I have not bought a fan since I set my cab up back in 2003

Odor Removal? You will have to do something. A carbon filter works best.You can make one or buy one.

Cultivation: Big bang or white widow Grow whatever you want. You don't have to grow fems, although they are fine. You should be able to get the vast majority of plant sexed before they are 1-month old, and while they are still in 160z cups or the like. See the sexing thread stickied here or the Early Sexing thread in my sig for details

Grow Medium: ? Lots of choice here and what use will, to some extent, affect the nutrients that you can use. I would suggest something very simple to start with sunsine mix, promix, or soil. I do organic soil.

Nutrients: ? It is a really confusing marketplace, in part because companies are trying to increase profits by offering broad product lines consisting of many additives and trying to convincing growers that they need all these additives. You can buy into the hype and let the hydro store sell you 10 bottles of stuff or go with something proven and simple. I suggest the latter; Something Lucus Formula, Maxibloom, Jacks Classic, or (no bottle) organics. I grow organically and can provide details, but I really know very little about the other fertilizers other than they can work very well and are cheap

Pot size:? 16oz cups and 3-gallon nursery pots (which are really like 2.1 gallons) would be sufficient. I think you could fit 4 of the 2.1 gallon pots in your cab.

Number of Plants:? 1, 2, 3, or 4. One would obviously involve more veg time. You could do 3 if you needed space for say a circulation fan for the canopy and couldn't not achieve symmetry as a result.

Training Method:Scrog, supercrop? They are all the same really. ScroG is cool, but it is hard to remove the plants if needed. There is a method where you have a screen for each pot - called Modular ScroG. Personally, I like LST and super-cropping because they are easy and require no equipment. I do have to stake my plants sometimes though which I wouldn't have to do with s screen.

Good luck. It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this, which is a good indicator of success.

Pine

 

[Karl Sparx]

Updated my grow plan.

I'm still looking for the right lighting set up for my budgeting/space/light output needs. I don't want to have insufficient wattage for this project, or spend more than I need to for that wattage.

White paint sounds like a winner.

I like the simplicity of organic soil, since I plan on going that route do you have recommendation on nutrient blends, feeding schedules, etc?

Modular scrog sounds like a great idea, i'm curious as to how it interacts with supercropping, as I hear reports that it gives healthier yield.

 

[pinecone]

I'm still looking for the right lighting set up for my budgeting/space/light output needs. I don't want to have insufficient wattage for this project, or spend more than I need to for that wattage.

The thing is - more light is almost always better as long as you can maintain good environmental conditions whilst meeting your requirements for costs and stealth. There are trade-offs and people are going to come to different conclusions about what sort of light is right for them. I run a 400w lamp in cab with a 28.5" X 24.5" footprint. Some people might, rightly for their circumstances, choose to run a 250w or smaller in the same area, and some people might opt for the up front cost of an LED unit. One thing you might do is read through some grow diaries in the Micro forum and see what sorts of results folks are getting with different fixtures.

I like the simplicity of organic soil, since I plan on going that route do you have recommendation on nutrient blends, feeding schedules, etc?

Check out the "Organics for Beginners" thread (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53792). The first post contains several proven mixtures. There are options for guano-kelp based and blood-bone-kelp based fertilizer mixtures that can be mixed into the basic soil mixes at specified rates. I would personally avoid the blood and bone ones, but they are proven to work. You could substitute alfalfa meal for high N bat guano (or blood) and fish bone meal for high P guano (or bone). The soil that I’m currently using was originally mixed with one of the recipes in the thread and the guano-kelp based fertilizer mix. I’m currently on my 4th crop with the same soil, recycling each time.

You could also buy some soil. I used the Fox Farm Ocean Forest (FFOF) soil for a long time. It worked pretty well for me, but it isn't the most consistent product, and has given a lot of people headaches as a result.

The fortified soil mixes discussed in the thread or that you can buy may be sufficient to sustain plants through veg (depending), but probably aren’t going to sufficient for any entire cycle. What I do is simply top dress some more of my dry fertilizers when my plants need it. When you do this and you have healthy live soil you get pretty quick results (couple days) and continued effects as the application takes time to completely break down so that is available to plants.

Modular scrog sounds like a great idea, i'm curious as to how it interacts with supercropping, as I hear reports that it gives healthier yield.

You can supper crop and mod ScroG. I super crop, but not because I think it gives me a healthier yield based on the cropping itself. I do it to contain plants, or branches, vertically, and in some cases to increase the strength and rigidity of branches in certain places. If you super crop a branch the scar tissue will leave it hard and inflexible – similar to what happens to damaged body tissue. Member "VerdantGreen" has a nice organic Micro mod ScroG thread (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=229850). Check it out.

Pine

 

[Anti]

23" L x 23" W x 30 H

So it's just under 4 sq. ft to grow in, and approximately 10 cubic feet of airspace in the cab.

If you're going with CFL (or PLL, which are exactly like CFLs that have been straightened out and their ballasts are remote so you don't get as much heat build up at the light) I would recommend you go with about 300-400w.

I further recommend that if you do run CFL or PLL you set yourself up with about 12-18 vertical inches of grow area. So between the lights and your soil, no more than 12-18 inches.

Since you're putting it in your kitchen, I'd go with a relatively high CFM fan that is rated at 0.5 or 1.0 sones. You can get one at home depot or lowes or whatever for about $80-120 for a bathroom "whisper" fan.

It'll be able to pull tons of air through your cab (and will still be able to get lots of air movement even after you add a carbon filter) without sounding out of place right next to your stove.

Check my microcab in my link for step by steps and pictures of how I built my own microcab about 3 years ago.

If you have any specific questions, ask.

You could also go with a 250w or 400w HID setup in that space. You'd probably need to do a bit more venting, though.

Good luck!

 

[dragon.gamer80]

when you go buy the paint make sure that it's flat white, it reflects the light better without hot spots that glossy paint give off

 

[Karl Sparx]

I am realizing that if I want to keep a perpetual and optimized growth schedule it might be best to have separate veg/clone and flowering sections, ideas?. Does anyone have notions as to how I can go dividing and utilizing this space in that manner? Anti, your cab design was FIERCE!

 

[Karl Sparx]

After -further- shopping and seeing that 8x 42's will run me about 70-80 bucks just for bulbs and no fixture/wiring, I am starting to think that a 250/400 HPS might be a great value. Easier to install? Heating problems?


The cab is now painted and light tight with some afterschool tinkering. The seeds just came in today.

 

[pinecone]

30" isn't enough to hang a 250-400w HID horizontally and allow for adequate pot depth, plant height, and space between the plant and the light.

Pine

 

[wtf]

My cab is about the same size, just 39 in heigth. I use a 150w HPS which gives me about 85°F at the plant tips

Before that, I had a 125w CFL bulb, the temperatures were a bit lower. Yield was still okay.

Just sayin

 

[Karl Sparx]

So i'm getting different answers on the possible lighting solutions from Anti and from Pinecone. I have 2.5 feet or 30 inches of vertical space to play with. More confused than i'd hoped to be at this stage in planning. I have no preferences at this point and will be more than glad to defer to someone with more experience who has a solution for this project that provides generous lighting.

 

[pinecone]

So i'm getting different answers on the possible lighting solutions from Anti and from Pinecone.

I don't really think we are disagreeing.

Here is the deal with the larger HIDs
- You need 10" or so for containers. Lets assume you have short plants that are only 1' tall. Now you have 8" for both hanging lights and space between your lights and your plants - not enough.
- You live in New Orleans. It is going to get hot. Your cab is always going to be 10 degrees hotter than it is in your kitchen, unless you get a large fan for venting, which is unstealthy and cost money.

You could hang a HID vertically, but you still have the heat and space problems.

Pine

 

[Karl Sparx]

If you're going with CFL (or PLL, which are exactly like CFLs that have been straightened out and their ballasts are remote so you don't get as much heat build up at the light) I would recommend you go with about 300-400w.

You could also go with a 250w or 400w HID setup in that space. You'd probably need to do a bit more venting, though.

So I'd only be able to use the 250/400 HID vertically. No idea how to do that. Moving on.

That leaves me with 8*42 (336 Watts) of CFL's or a 150 Watt HPS system.
It seems that I am getting half the lighting with the HPS, so I don't see the benefit in performance here. Is there something i'm missing?

 

[pinecone]

So I'd only be able to use the 250/400 HID vertically. No idea how to do that. Moving on.

HID bulbs are long and narrow. Normally, they get hung horizontally, with the plants growing below them. They can be hung vertically, with the plants growing alongside them. This is known as vertical growing. In your circumstances the advantage of vertical growing is that you could use all 30" of height for plants and pots.

To see what is possible with vertical check out heady blunts grow thread (HEADY BLUNTS -- 400w vert micro cab - 22.5" tall -- organic soil w/ blumats!)- https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=213844

That leaves me with 8*42 (336 Watts) of CFL's or a 150 Watt HPS system. It seems that I am getting half the lighting with the HPS, so I don't see the benefit in performance here. Is there something i'm missing?

I'm not really up on the small light setups, but one thing I do know is that watts do not equal light because some lamps produce light more efficiently than others - and also I'm not sure if the CLF bulbs correctly reflect the actual wattage. You should probably ask in the Micro forum or in Growroom Designs and Equipment.

Good luck. It is worth it to spend the extra time now to get things right.

Pine

 

[thinkin]

Experience

Experience

Hey Pine,

First grow and Being stealth, 150 HPS is best choice.

Ive run 150 and 250 HPS (vert) in almost same dimensions as yours.

250 is much hotter. Went from an almost silent setup to a setup that is clearly audible. Given the space constraints, having lots of trouble increasing yield over the 150 hps.

CFL vs HPS
Hands down HPS did a better job.

FYI cabinet size fits under just your clothes in your closet.

 

[Guest 263194]

I would go with 10x24w cfl's with good ventilation with 100cfm fan as your exhaust fan and passive intake's. If your living in FL, you should consider outside temp nd RH too, imo.

 

[Karl Sparx]

Thinkin, took your advice since I suspect bigger lights won't get me much bigger yileds given the space I have and got a 150 Watt HPS. I do wish I could use the MH bulbs during flowering to give the plants access to the full spectrum. Are there any say 150 full spectrum or MH evquivalent in 150?