FIrst Grow, 7 day old seedling help, pics

[LittleBigGrower]

Hey,
First off I would like to Introduce myself as it is my first time on these forums as well as growing. I am currently attempting to grow 6 plants, all Nirvana strains. I have 3 White rhino and 3 super skunk (although im not to sure which are which ). I am attempting my first grow with my boyfreind as it sounds like a rele cool hobby with a great pay off.

I am growing in a 2' by 4' closet, with a 400 watt MH light, a Bionaire heater/fan for circulation, 2 2 litre bottles with a yeast and sugar solution in for Co2 production, tin foil lining the walls (dull side showing) and the seedlings are about 1 1/2' from the light.

They have just been transplanted from just miracle grow potting soil mix in a small pot to a 5 parts miracle grow, 1 part vermiculite, 1 part perlite mix with one cup of bone meal mixed in. Have been watering with a mineral water with a pH of 6.0 once every 3 days (or when the soil gets too dry below the surface) and mist the plants about 3 times a day to increase humidity. No ferts added as yet. They have been on a 18/6 light cycle since they broke the surface of the soil. Daytime temps vary between 84-87 Degrees F and night time temps of around 75-80.

All things are going fairly well so far but we have a few questions for anyone who thinks they can help:




This is the first of our troubled seedlings, pale specks on leaves. It first appeared on the initial sprouting leaves and has now appeared on the first set of proper leaves. Any ideas on what could be causing this and the effect it could have on my plant.




Dont know what the hel is going on here . The seedling seems to be growing ok (a bit of a runt but nothing more) but the ends of the laves have been grey since it sprouted, and since thean have withered. Second set of leaves just starting to appear and seem to be healthy. Again any ideas on waht could have caused this and how it could effect the plant.





But dont worry its not all bad, the other 4 all look like this healthy little thing, with some size variation. Does this seedling look normal for 7 days? It feels like its growing soo slowly, lol.

Thanks to anyone who could give us any advice on our first grow, or even your opinion.....

 

[Guest]

Welcome to ICMag LBG. I'm not familiar with Miracle Grow so I'll leave comments on your soil mix to someone who is.

Right off the bat I can tell you two things which you're doing wrong. Both have to do with the water you're using.

Mineral water is not good for watering your plants. It contains many salts which will accumulate in your soil as well as a high concentration of metals and other elements which your babies just won't be able to metabolize this young. You need to use either pH corrected tapwater or RO water (water obtained through the process of reverse osmosis). I personally use a 50/50 mix of tap water and RO water and don't have to use any pH adjuster as this mixture provides me with water in the 6.4 - 6.6 pH range which seems to work well for my plants. I grow in soil, so don't know if a soilless mix (is Miracle Grow a soilless mix or is it soil?) needs a pH as low as 6.0 which you're running. Most strains in soil need a pH which ranges from 6.3 - 6.7 tops. You should measure the pH from the runoff water when you water them. That's something you need to get clear because improper pH can stunt and possibly even kill your plants after a while. That was my other doubt. In any case stop using mineral water and I don't think you should be giving them any supplementary CO2 this young either....they simply don't need it.

By the way, its nice to see another lady grower here :smile:

 

[LittleBigGrower]

Thanks for your help bluevelvet :smile:

How would you obtain water through reverse osmosis? And do you think diluting would create an effective watering medium, or would just plain tap water be better than the mineral water im using (Spa). Oh, and the co2 system is in there because the door to the closet is fully shut at night and I dont have any extractor fans to pull in fresh co2.

It is nice to see other women on here (there isnt many of us lol) makes me feel right at home. I think these plants would benifit from a womans touch, the poor lil seedlings get man handled whean my b/f waters them

 

[halfbaked]

Hi Littlebiggrower. First welcome to IC. Did I understand correctly, that you have a 400 MH light 1and1/2 inches away from the plant? If so it's too close and with the misting, the water droplets on the leaves can turn into a magnifying glass and burn the leaves. I use regular tap water on my plants with no problems. Just let the water sit out for 24 hours before you use it. the miracle grow soil is ok though some folks here hate it and you will here this soon enough.
Anyway welcome again and good luck with that grow.

 

[LittleBigGrower]

hey halfbaked! lol no the lights 1 and a half feet away, i think our plants would b fried by now if it was inches! The miracle grow soil has served us well so far, hasnt caused any probs as far as i can see. Ill try using the tap water that has stood for 24 hours and see if that helps at all, thanks for the help :smile:

 

[Guest]

halfbaked, I beleive that her light is 1 and 1/2 FEET away from the plants, otherwise they'd be full-baked :wink: I do agree that that first pic looks like light burns, LBG, make sure when you water to not splash your leaves :wink:

LBG, RO water can be obtained with a special filter, but its quite costly. You can also buy it (at least over my ways) in aquarium and fish stores. I live in Europe, and in the country where I live the water they sell as distilled is obtained through reverse osmosis, so I just buy 1 1/2 gallon jugs of it and mix it with my tap water. Halfbaked is right about letting tap water sit 24 hours, you should do this everytime you use it to allow chlorine and gasses to evaporate. STOP using mineral water immediately. If you can't obtain RO water, use tap water that has been sitting overnight and adjust the pH with a pH down (or pH up...it depends, but usually it needs to be brought down). If you don't have pH down, as a temporary measure you can bring down the pH of the tap water with cider vinegar. In the meantime either order pH down on the net or go to your local hydro or grow shop.

Tap water contains many beneficial elements for our plants such as minerals, trace elements, etc. IMO in soil a mix of RO water (which contains none of these beneficial elements, its just pure and has a stable pH) and tap water is perfect. The tap water provides the beneficial elements missing in the RO water, which in turn helps to stabilize the pH in your soil. Using pH corrected tap water from beginning to end is fine too, but the soil will need to be properly flushed every three weeks or so to rinse out the salts and stuff which will accumulate, and the best thing to use for flushing is RO water. Unless you're growing in a hydro system, using pure RO water from beginning to end will deprive your plants of trace elements and minerals which you will have to replenish with nutes and supplements.


You keep that boyfriend in his place LOL ...pretty soon you're gonna know a helluva lot more than him about growing anyway, just stay with us here and we'll help you grow yourself to paradise

 

[LittleBigGrower]

lol, i keep him in his place, dnt u worry so would 50/50 tap and distilled water be the best thing to water the plants with? and if we used that mixture, would we still need to flush the pots? And is there a way to distill water yourself?
I really apreciate all the help, really helps me get my grow sorted out early to make them big n strong for budding
And i see your from europe, im from the uk myself (south east) and its snowing like mad at the moment :s .
Funny u mention growing paradise actually, as I was looking outside longing to be back in the maldives (god i loved that holiday) there all little islands and the climate is perfect for growing pot! and the best part is half of them are un inhabited. The tempuriture is always above 70 never higher than 90 the air is really humid and they get luurvely tropical showers every other week. might put that plan into action someday

Really appreciate all the help guys, I cant thank you enough :smile:

 

[Guest]

Hi LBG, have to make this one short. When you go to the store, look at the label of the distilled water, if it states "obtained through the process of reverse osmosis" that's RO water and you can use it. The quantity you must add to your tap water depends on the pH of your tap water right out of the spigot. You should measure it. Mine is 7.0, RO water has a pH of 5.8. You will more than likely have a different pH to your own tap water. You need to do a few experiments measuring the pH of the runoff water from your pots to figure out the perfect ratio of tap/RO water. If your tap water pH is near 7.0 like mine, go ahead and mix up 50/50, measure the pH of your mix, if its between 6.3 - 6.7 water your plants (only when the soil is already dry, be very careful not to overwater your plants, giving them water too often chokes the roots) and test the runoff water. If it has a pH of 6.5 - 6.6 then you have found the right combination :smile:

Another thing to remember, further along when you start giving your plants nutes, is that nutes often will lower the pH of your water, so you should measure water pH ONLY after having already mixed in your nutes. When I use nutes I compensate the lower pH by using more tap water than RO water to bring it back up again :wink:

 

[Rellikbuzz]

Welcome LittleBigGrower - I agree with Blue Velvet. Stop using the mineral water immediately!! It releases CO2 into the soil and will eventually kill the root system! Roots need oxygen, not CO2, so cut the use of the mineral water and go with PH corrected tap water that has set overnight. If you can, place an air pump (aquarium pump - 15.00US) in the water to aerate overnight. This will introduce more much needed oxygen into the water to aerate the root system.

Miracle Grow is a potting soil that contains ferts and is really too hot of a mix for such small seedlings. Your pic above looks to me like a bit of tip burn from overfeeding. It would probably be okay for older plants but it's a bit too strong for little babies. I have read several threads where people fried their plants using Miracle Grow. For you next transplant, you might consider going with a more inert mixture (no nutes in soil) and do you feeding with a good three part fertilizer and other amendments. You can control their feedings so much better that way. If you prefer a more organic approach, you should read BOG's tutorial (under BOG seeds) thread and look at his soil mixture. Many, many people here swear by it and all have had unreal results using it. In fact, here is the link to it. Great reading for first time and long time growers!

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=4986

Also, again I agree with Blue about the CO2. There isn't enough leaf matter yet for the plants to uptake the CO2. It is just being wasted right now. Fine for later after the plants get a more significant canopy. I will say that you need to find a way to get some fresh air into your closet. I am growing in a closet as well and I cut two openings in the front wall next to the doors: one up high on the outside, one down low on the inside. The inside hole is directly under the outside hole. The reason for this is that I needed fresh air in the closet but didn't want light leaks that could screw up my plants during flower. On the inside I connected the intake side of a Dayton Blower (265 cfm) to the opening I cut on the inside. When it turns on, it now sucks in fresh air from the opening that I cut up high on the outside. It is essential to your plants to get fresh air and not just CO2 supplementation.

Good luck!!

 

[LittleBigGrower]

Hey Rellikbuzz
Thanks for the help, we now have 3L of normal tap water standing and will be used to water them tomorro :smile:
With the fresh air, the plants do get fresh air during the day, but whean the closet is shut to block out light (and noise from the fan crinkling up that damn tin foil ). I now have 4 northern lights seeds that have germed that im probably going to pot tomorrow whean the taproots get a bit bigger as the initial grow was planned for 10 plants. So with the 6 we have there will also be 4 NL plants a week behind them.

So will the seedling with burn be ok? I hope it dosent die, I rele thought she was gonna make it!

 

[LittleBigGrower]

Does anyone know what is wrong with the 1st seedling? The spots are getting worse!

 

[Rellikbuzz]

I still think that the Miracle Grow soil is causing most of your problems. Try just a plain, unferted potting soil with a lot of perlite for your next seedlings. I think you will find this to be much more to their liking. The seedlings have enough food within the cotyldon leaves to survive for the first week or two. The only thing that you should add would be a drop or two (out of an eye dropper) of Superthrive (which is a B-1 vitamin supplement that can be found at any garden center) per gallon of water. This vitamin supplement helps establish the root system and get them started out right. You can continue the use of Superthrive throughout veg. BE SURE TO KEEP THE PH IN THE 6.2-6.3 RANGE!!!!!

I am quite certain that the tip burn and spots you see are from nutrient overload. These babies are fragile and burn easily. Normally you should not give new plants ANY nutrients or fertilizers until that have at least 4 to 5 nodes. This is certainly waaayyy to early. Just try the unferted soil and the Superthrive with your NL seeds and I'll bet you'll see much better results. As newbies to growing, we have to resist the temptation to do too much. Just remember, in nature these plants don't get ANY nutrients at all and they have survived for centuries!! Read BOG's thread that I posted earlier. I cannot stress this enough!! Especially pay attention to his K.I.S.S. method. This will keep you on track. Good luck.

 

[LittleBigGrower]

Thanks Rellik
Its only one of the seedlings that has the spots though, out of the 6 so maybe this seedling was just more sensitive to it? I have started my northern lights off in a mix soil vith very lilttle of the soil, mostly perlite/varmiculite. The taproot on the NL seeds grew much bigger,stronger and longer than the other strains I have going at the moment. THe spots are still there though :s

 

[Guest]

:sigh:

Again, Miracle Grow does not burn plants when used properly. I've used it for years in a variety of mixes and never had problems as long as I remembered the soil has food in it. So, the real culprit IMO (in additon to the water) lies with that cup of bone meal you added to the MG. This constitutes double dosing your plans with fertilizer, one chemical and one organic. Your issues are magnified by the lack of conditioners in the soil. One part perlite and vermiculite is not enough for most any soil you buy from the store. Cannabis loves a light, airy mix, so using up to 1/3 perlite will loosen up the soil a great deal and lower the percentage of pre fertilized potting soil in the mix and thus the amount of food in the soil. I've stopped using vermiculite altogether.

This also is the exact reason that pot growers using Miracle Grow have a hard time growing, by using a pre-ferted potting soil in addition to chemical or organic fertilizers, either in the mix or in the water. Mostly, this is the result of a lot of people attempting hobby growing who's interests would otherwise have nothing to do with a green thumb. The reputation of pre ferted potting soil is not deserved, IMO.

Next time, just feed the plants plain water for the first 2-3 weeks, longer or shorter according to the mix your using. Skip the organic additives unless your going to recycle it for a second go around (ask me how). Dont transplant using a fresh pre-ferted potting soil, because the mix your going into will be fertilized and the mix your in wont be. Roots will be unhealthy somewhere no matter what you do to feed them.

Good luck

Cap

 

[LittleBigGrower]

So your saying we are going to fail? Most of our plants are doing ok now and there now in a better soil mix that has much better airflow. I hope we dont fail

 

[Guest]

No, absolutely not! I'm saying much bigger mistakes lead to failure. Your only having problems with one plant, right? Probably the result of the mix being not mixed enough and having a hot soil in one pot. It things are going fine in the others, you'll be Ok as the chemical food is leeched out. Watch for signs of them needing to be given more food, as it's kind of a guess when using a mix your not familiar with.

Sorry if that came out so negative. I'm a MG suporter. I'll be happy to see you succeed using it. I just hate the negative image it has in the cannabis world, I guess, and it showed in my post.

 

[LittleBigGrower]

Yay!
Was quite informative actually, i just diddent like the idea of the my plants suffering in that soil. Diddent see the others dieing but that one with the burn is freakin me out so im really worried about the rest of them. I hope the NL dont have this trouble. 5/5 of the Nirvana seeds germinated in 24 hours and I Buried them in 3x4 inch pots. And there was one seed out of the White rhino that got stuck in a seed casing and has stayed on a kind of Day 1 veg state the last 5 days I unearthed it and the taproot was still about the same leangth as it was whean I planted it as a seed:


But here are all my lil plants growing happily, on day 8:






And the One with the nute burn on the ends of the leaves seems to be up to something too :smile:
R.I.P

 

[Guest]

Little Big Grower =

First; another woman grower!! yea!!! good for you girl / Growing cannabis together is a wondeful way to have common ground

Second: You are not going to fail! - cannabis is a very forgiving plant;

Flush them with pure pH checked water - then ck the pH in your runoff & adjust you water nutes from there /

Nutes;I would go with something simple at first - they have some very good & reasonable 2 step -Grow-bloom products /

I would go here & read all i can in the "Grow Info" link
http://www.advancednutrients.com/new2/homeframe.html

BOG's thread mentioned above is also a good one for new & seasond vets alike as well

Caprichiso; knows his Grow (I have sampled his product & it was great) & following him will give you some good help as well

Many blessings may you always have
Love-Peace Joy & good crops

ps. You need to get them stable soon

 

[Rellikbuzz]

I want to echo Fredster's comments. If Cap says that Miracle Grow soil is good stuff, then you can take that to the bank. I have no experience with it and I was only going on what I've read on it. I hope that my comments haven't been misleading to you in any way. Although the MG soil is apparently good to use, I still stand by my comments about the little one being overferted. I guess the bone meal made you mix really hot, therefore, nute burn. Yeah!!! I feel redeemed!!

 

[Guest]

Hey Relik, thanks for following up. I'm going to deal with this Miracle Grow issue in a large and detailed way sometime in the near future, including seedlings, using MG food at 150% strength and a comparison of the new organic soils from Schultz and Miracle Grow. It'll take some time to get the parameters together to make it as accurate as possible.