First Auto Hydro...WTF!!!

[CraftyApe]

Quick update


With only three dark period so far the end result is that not only have they started to show sex but bugger me with a fish fork lads they are going like you would not believe. They are flowering faster and stronger than ever before. Dont know if it is because they are so much older or it is the monster root mass or both.

So it looks like the groups recommendations were dead on. I won't claim that I understand why it went like this in hydro but not in soil but results are what counts. I will acknowledge that I should have had it on a timer early on but since I have always grown these autos in the veg cab under 7/24 and not had a hic-up one I guess it just made me lazy.

Cheers mates. Thanks for the good advice and I will post pictures once these little bushes are close to harvest.


C

 

[Tropic]

Thanks for reporting your results CraftyApe!

 

[skotty]

all plants need a dark period fact i dont care what anybody says about growing plants on 24/0 light cycle its bullshit, certain things happen when the lights go out and the plants need time to recuperate from all the light, there is no such thing as 24 hours of sun so why use 24 hours of light in a grow room ????

autos grown in hydro are always gonna grow quicker and bigger over autos grown in soil its just the nature of the beast, autos should always show sex between week 3-4 but sometimes you do get the odd 1s that dont show sex but with a little encouragement you can trigger them to flower and switch back to you 18/6 or 20/4 light cycle with no issues

autos and hydro are where the partys at decent yields in short growing times ive been telling people this for ages over on my old site and im seeing more and more people taking this route and by the sounds of it your getting impressive results yourself by growing this way

looking forward to seeing your updated pics fella

peace

 

[FullDuplex]

autos should always show sex between week 3-4

I still think that this is a long time to see the sex. i usually show at 11-14 days. I currently have a male that has shown at day 11. before this my plants showed at day 14. I think that there were other variables in this rather than just the light cycle. the light deff helped because a plant needs the dark time period like you said skotty, there isnt 24 hrs of day light

 

[skotty]

3-4 weeks max anything longer id be concerned

if a plant takes 8 weeks seed to harvest i would expect it to show sex before a plant that takes 10 - 12 weeks seed to harvest

all autos have different flowering periods which would play apart in when they show sex

the fact his plants vegged for longer than normal may reflect in his yields but they may also take longer to grow.

 

[uptosumpn]

well said

 

[CraftyApe]

I have to say that I may not be going back to soil.

Seriously.

I also have to say that I will be making a point of doing a "Vegging" period under 24 hours of light. Plus I might just well start tossing the phenos that do not get massive under the circumstance that I stumbled upon and breeding a bit. Totally counter intuitive sounding with autoflowers I know but you would not believe just how dramatic the difference between what I normally get out of this strain and what i am getting now you would understand.
I would post pics but frankly the monster tangled mess that is just three plants in one 9x9 basket would not really make much sense. They have over taken the entire reservoir area that was intended for three baskets that size. I had been expecting to get a little larger plants but still just larger budsicles. But nothing like this.

So I will post pics after harvest I guess. All I know is that the two larger ones are going to out yield most if not all of the lowlife auto-ak's that I have done and these things really have never shown that potential before.

Soooo fecking cool.

 

[FullDuplex]

I wanna see the tangled mess dude

 

[skotty]

id believe the differnece your getting

everything does happen quicker in hydro and things do get bigger id like to see some more hydro autoflowering diaries in this section to show off what the plants can really achieve,

good luck with the rest of your grow and seriously drop the 24h light period your plants will thankyou for it

peace

 

[Bighill]

id like to see some more hydro autoflowering diaries in this section to show off what the plants can really achieve,

I am gathering some stuff to make the switch, i think i am going to go the coco route. Maybe do a hand water run first to see how much i really like it. Then maybe move in some pumps and what not.. Honestly i am having an issue sourcing canna coco locally.


CraftyApe, i'd also like to see pics, the more tangled the better!

 

[skotty]

mate try hempy buckets or krusty buckets realy realy simple hydro method and you get good results

canna isnt the only nute range on the market mate

peace

 

[CraftyApe]

id believe the differnece your getting

everything does happen quicker in hydro and things do get bigger id like to see some more hydro autoflowering diaries in this section to show off what the plants can really achieve,

good luck with the rest of your grow and seriously drop the 24h light period your plants will thankyou for it

peace

Skotty,

You can bet I will be dropping it in general terms but I would like to see if I can duplicate the results that it looks like I will get this time by getting the proverbial vegging stage that these little dudes lack.
Worth experimenting to see if I can consistently get females of this strain that will not flower in hydro under 24 hours of light. Just another project.

Makes me really wish I had more space for all of the projects that are half finished. Need to get back on my Pure Speed project. Was making a bit of progress.

Wonder if there is an auto strain that is good for ADD. LOL!

 

[skotty]

there is tried and tested methods for getting more females here is a little bit of reading for you

The quantity of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed.
Humidity and moistness of the seedbed.
Level of temperatures.
Colour of the light used.
Length of daylight.
Stress, any form of stress, makes that more male individuals will originate from seed. Even the taking of cuttings from female plants may produce male or hermaphrodite cuttings.
To optimise the result, changes in one or more of the above-mentioned environmental factors for a certain period during growth, may be applied. During this time these environmental factors will deviate from the standard growing system for maximum harvest and quality, as described in nursery literature. The desired change(s) in the environmental factor(s) are started from the moment that the seedling has three pairs of real leaves (not counting the seed-lobes). This is the moment that male and/or female predisposition in florescence is being formed. After approximately two weeks the standard growing system can be reconverted to.
Of the 5 above-mentioned environmental factors the first three are the most practical:

1. Level of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed: A heightening of the standard level of nitrogen makes for more female plants originating from the seeds. A lowering of the nitrogen level shows more male plants. A heightening of the level of potassium tends to show more male plants, while a lowering of the potassium level shows more female plants. A combination of a higher nitrogen level for the period of a week or two and a lowering of the potassium level is recommended.
2. Humidity and moistness of the seedbed: a higher humidity makes for an increase in the number of female plants from seed, a lowering for an increase in male plants. The same is valid for the moistness of the seedbed.
3. Level of temperatures: lower temperatures make for a larger number of female plants, higher temperatures for more male plants.
4. Colour of light: more blue light makes for female plants from seed, more red light makes for more male plants.
5. Hours of daylight: few hours of daylight (e.g. 14 hours) makes for more female individuals, a long day (e.g. 18 hours) makes for more male plants. *


Now let me just make a few adjustments here to this. You can do whatever you want to your plants in seedling stage and early vegetative stage of growth and it will not effect your final male to female ratios. The time when things should be near perfect is in or around the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. This is the CRITICAL TIME for getting those female ratios up and up. I realized this clearly when noticing how some plants hermed because of problems that occurred around this period of the plants development. If the problems occurred before this time - no herms. So for this reason I surmised that this is when the crucial gender selection is made by the plant. Now I believe that the genders are set in the seed however the environment has a massive impact on how this is expressed in the final phenotypic expression of the plants gender. There are probably many genes that govern this, however lets get into how to up these female ratios.

At the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth make sure that your plants are free from stress. No pests attacks, no fungi attacks, no mold, no irregular photoperiod, not underwatered, not overwatered, not pruned or topped, a cannabis friendly soil mix, not recently transplanted, no small pots. If have these basic growing conditions under control then we can move onto the real forces of female production from standard seeds.

N:K and nutrients. What this simply boils down to is that you have the right nutrients present in the right ratios. A nutrient formulation that has roughly equal parts N, P and K is great but if the P levels go up or the N levels go down you are starting to look at a flowering type food for cannabis. If you do this then your odds of producing mostly females is greatly decreased. Make sure that you get those N, P and K levels to almost run from higher to lower amounts from N to P and K. I have noticed that equal portions of N to P an K can help with the female ratios but the higher N is certainly more helpful. So around the 3rd of 4th week of growth make sure that the ratios are good and that P or K has not gone above the N and P or else more males will occur. Obviously this means to avoid overfeeding your plants around this time too.

Never let your medium dry out completely around the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. If you make sure to water occasionally, but not to overwater your plants, you will get those female ratios on the up and up. Overwatering or drying out of the medium will only produce more males. For consistent results in getting more females keeps those mediums moist.

Humidity. Now this is the tricky one. High humidity levels only promote fungi and mold development and lowering humidity levels is the way to cure most of this rot but by keeping those humidity levels up in or around the 70 rH factor will help to produce more females. If you have a low humidity grow room then you should get to hold of a humidifier. Now high humidity levels like 70rH cause the medium to dry out a lot quicker so you got to keep this under control too. Keep those mediums moist and those rH levesl at 70. This will help to improve those female to male ratios. Again, getting them on the up and up.

If you run the 24/0 photoperiod then do not allow those temps to go anywhere above 85 unless you have an equatorial strain. 75 is the best but going a little lower is not a problem for helping those female ratios. If you can get in at around 65 then those females are going to be popping up all over the place. The problem with this is that some growers like to use the 18/6 photoperiod and when the lights are off the temps drop from around 65 to 50 and even less. Try not to be below 55 because this has the adverse effect on the plants producing more males than females. Again between 65 and 75 is where you want to be during the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth, the preference being 70.

Invest in a MH Light for vegetative growth. Dump the HPS bulb for flowering later. I have noticed that HPS lighting during vegetative growth simply sends those males to female ratios all over the place. With MH lamps the females are everywhere. Invest in some MH HID lights. It makes all the difference in getting those females to show more often. This is worth repeating! MH Bulbs produce more females under optimal conditions especially if they are present during the 3rd and 4th week of vegetative growth. Surprising enough you can start seedlings under HPS and it will not have an effect on those female ratios. Again the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth is what is important here.

No stress during the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. That is all there is to it. If you got your garden growing in optimal conditions without plant stress then the impressive 90% to 95% females start to emerge from standard seed packs. I find that topping is best done at the second to third week of vegetative growth but that this is a little stressful and can lead to those female ratios dropping again. Avoid topping or pruning if you are looking to up the female count.

That is all I have to say for the moment. These little snippets of information in conjunction with what DP uncovered have helped my female ratios considerably. Hopefully you can see the same results too. Have fun getting those environments optimal for females!!!!!!!!

 

[medical_breeder]

you autoflower problem solved

you autoflower problem solved

hey bro just to let you all know who dont
ive been running organic soil mixes and hydro for 18 years
and soil always start flowering faster than hydro this is becuz
roots have to addapt to being soaked or constantly misted in hydro systems the reason for the slow flowering is becuz in hydro
you dont get the fine palm palm fuzzy roots that you get in soil
but just becuz hydro starts flowering slower dont mean a thing becuz they always finish first. also when transitioning to flower
in hydro ph should be raised from 5.5 to 5.8 and from 5.8 let it drift to 6.1
Medical_Breeder

 

[skotty]

^^^ good advice that and why we are on the subject of good advice...

ph down

most ph down formulas contain phosphorus acid which is what the plants require in large amounts in flower if you look on the side of most ph down bottles you will see what im talking about, however this is shit in veg as the plants need more nitogen and by adding your ph down to the res during veg your increasing the amount of phosphorus which in turn could increase the amount of males

on the flip side to this canna do a range of ph down for veg and flower

the veg contains 38% nitric acid and the flower contains 59% phosphorus acid perfect for what you plants need in both growing stages

peace

 

[uptosumpn]

Wow! That's great and NEEDED info right there!!! Thanks !

hey bro just to let you all know who dont
ive been running organic soil mixes and hydro for 18 years
and soil always start flowering faster than hydro this is becuz
roots have to addapt to being soaked or constantly misted in hydro systems the reason for the slow flowering is becuz in hydro
you dont get the fine palm palm fuzzy roots that you get in soil
but just becuz hydro starts flowering slower dont mean a thing becuz they always finish first. also when transitioning to flower
in hydro ph should be raised from 5.5 to 5.8 and from 5.8 let it drift to 6.1
Medical_Breeder

Ok skotty, read that first part before...so I got it....BUT WOW man..the rest of the info you put in this post is PERFECT!! Here is a couple of "more" questions I have fer ya....Transplanting??....At what age do you put your seedlings in the pot? <in soil, I know it's either NO transplant or transplant once sex is shown....Being that I will be using 8-10 pots, and because of the male to female ratio on autos, I will be starting around 15-20 reg. auto seeds...<may not have to start that many in the future using your technique @ the 3-4wk growth stage... But, anywayz, I will be starting like you do, I assume, in 1.5" cube, then onto 4" cube, then into pot....what I dont knw is will the roots go through/be okay untill sexin, (3-4wks?!) in the 4" cubes??? <<BTW, they will be kept moist in trays under a 4' 4 bulb HO T5' blue spectrum light...Remember, I will be using ONLY 8-10 pots and I'm starting non-fem seeds, so basically I need to know CAN they stay JUST in the 4" cubes till sex is showed.....sorry for the drawn-out post.....

there is tried and tested methods for getting more females here is a little bit of reading for you

Now let me just make a few adjustments here to this. You can do whatever you want to your plants in seedling stage and early vegetative stage of growth and it will not effect your final male to female ratios. The time when things should be near perfect is in or around the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. This is the CRITICAL TIME for getting those female ratios up and up. I realized this clearly when noticing how some plants hermed because of problems that occurred around this period of the plants development. If the problems occurred before this time - no herms. So for this reason I surmised that this is when the crucial gender selection is made by the plant. Now I believe that the genders are set in the seed however the environment has a massive impact on how this is expressed in the final phenotypic expression of the plants gender. There are probably many genes that govern this, however lets get into how to up these female ratios.

At the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth make sure that your plants are free from stress. No pests attacks, no fungi attacks, no mold, no irregular photoperiod, not underwatered, not overwatered, not pruned or topped, a cannabis friendly soil mix, not recently transplanted, no small pots. If have these basic growing conditions under control then we can move onto the real forces of female production from standard seeds.

N:K and nutrients. What this simply boils down to is that you have the right nutrients present in the right ratios. A nutrient formulation that has roughly equal parts N, P and K is great but if the P levels go up or the N levels go down you are starting to look at a flowering type food for cannabis. If you do this then your odds of producing mostly females is greatly decreased. Make sure that you get those N, P and K levels to almost run from higher to lower amounts from N to P and K. I have noticed that equal portions of N to P an K can help with the female ratios but the higher N is certainly more helpful. So around the 3rd of 4th week of growth make sure that the ratios are good and that P or K has not gone above the N and P or else more males will occur. Obviously this means to avoid overfeeding your plants around this time too.

Never let your medium dry out completely around the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. If you make sure to water occasionally, but not to overwater your plants, you will get those female ratios on the up and up. Overwatering or drying out of the medium will only produce more males. For consistent results in getting more females keeps those mediums moist.

Humidity. Now this is the tricky one. High humidity levels only promote fungi and mold development and lowering humidity levels is the way to cure most of this rot but by keeping those humidity levels up in or around the 70 rH factor will help to produce more females. If you have a low humidity grow room then you should get to hold of a humidifier. Now high humidity levels like 70rH cause the medium to dry out a lot quicker so you got to keep this under control too. Keep those mediums moist and those rH levesl at 70. This will help to improve those female to male ratios. Again, getting them on the up and up.

If you run the 24/0 photoperiod then do not allow those temps to go anywhere above 85 unless you have an equatorial strain. 75 is the best but going a little lower is not a problem for helping those female ratios. If you can get in at around 65 then those females are going to be popping up all over the place. The problem with this is that some growers like to use the 18/6 photoperiod and when the lights are off the temps drop from around 65 to 50 and even less. Try not to be below 55 because this has the adverse effect on the plants producing more males than females. Again between 65 and 75 is where you want to be during the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth, the preference being 70.

Invest in a MH Light for vegetative growth. Dump the HPS bulb for flowering later. I have noticed that HPS lighting during vegetative growth simply sends those males to female ratios all over the place. With MH lamps the females are everywhere. Invest in some MH HID lights. It makes all the difference in getting those females to show more often. This is worth repeating! MH Bulbs produce more females under optimal conditions especially if they are present during the 3rd and 4th week of vegetative growth. Surprising enough you can start seedlings under HPS and it will not have an effect on those female ratios. Again the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth is what is important here.

No stress during the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. That is all there is to it. If you got your garden growing in optimal conditions without plant stress then the impressive 90% to 95% females start to emerge from standard seed packs. I find that topping is best done at the second to third week of vegetative growth but that this is a little stressful and can lead to those female ratios dropping again. Avoid topping or pruning if you are looking to up the female count.

That is all I have to say for the moment. These little snippets of information in conjunction with what DP uncovered have helped my female ratios considerably. Hopefully you can see the same results too. Have fun getting those environments optimal for females!!!!!!!!

It jus keeps coming eh' ??? LOL! Just Great, USEFUL ADVICE/INFO Skotty!!! So your suggesting Canna PH down to use in the res??

^^^ good advice that and why we are on the subject of good advice...

ph down

most ph down formulas contain phosphorus acid which is what the plants require in large amounts in flower if you look on the side of most ph down bottles you will see what im talking about, however this is shit in veg as the plants need more nitogen and by adding your ph down to the res during veg your increasing the amount of phosphorus which in turn could increase the amount of males

on the flip side to this canna do a range of ph down for veg and flower

the veg contains 38% nitric acid and the flower contains 59% phosphorus acid perfect for what you plants need in both growing stages

peace

 

[skotty]

theres a step by step guide to starting off in dwc mate in my devil diary

if you read that you will be set

peace

 

[uptosumpn]

currently subbed' and readin, thanks..

 

[CraftyApe]

You wanted pics of a tangled mess

You wanted pics of a tangled mess

Ok, you wanted a tangled mess well here it is.

Crap pics I know and ideally there would have been something about to give perspective. If it helps at all the tallest one is just a whisker under thirty inches tall and while it has the heaviest bud structure you cant see it all that well as I had to move stuff about a little today. There are three plants in this mess if that helps to sort things out at all also. A single shorter stocky one that is more like I normally get in that when it is finished it will be a budsicle.
The second is tallish and real lanky. Will produce a lot more than the but on a stick that is the smallest one but nothing like number three. The tallest and bushiest and she will produce at least 5 or more times more than the first one.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=21608&pictureid=454079


https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=21608&pictureid=454078


I know there is a little bit of canoeing on a few of the leaves. It is sod all hot and I am doing my best to control the heat but I am getting a little curling here or there as a result.

So thoughts and feedback?

Cheers lads

 

[skotty]

your plants look like they have stretched to reach your lights, you can tell this from looking at the stems and how thin they look and by also your leaves praying upwards, this is also a sign of the light not being close enough , just my observations and i hope you get a nice harvest from them

peace