Fem seeds: breeding a plant to itself.

[Timj]

I see a lot of people playing with CS and STS lately and they are seriously polluting the gene pool with hermie seeds.
It takes time to stress test a female to decide if it is a candidate for selfing or crossing to another female of a different line that has also been stress tested.
I've held one clone now for 3 years and have only this season decided it is a candidate. I subjected it to serious long term root bound condition for months, light leaks, spider mites , thrips, root aphids, extreme temp swings, months of barely adequate light...... she's been beaten battered worn and torn and has never popped a nanner and has always regained her vigor once conditions are returned to normal. In fact a mother I messed with all winter was a clone from July last year. She is now a beautiful scrog in my outdoor light dep.
That is the kind of plant you want to choose..... not just some random female
My post isn't meant as a rant nor do i meant to target the OP but guys..... there is so much seed out there. Why make S1 seeds with inferior plants. Put the time in to stress test that awesome girl you found and if she passes..... you will be greatly rewarded. If not..... you are gonna be greatly disappointed

I've made many different S1 and F1 seeds in my lifetime. I have never purposely stressed them the way you do. I don't claim to be a breeder. I make seeds for myself and my fellow growers. They are always free. The seeds I've made have been grown all across the US and I haven't had one grower claim they have had a hermaphrodite to date. I'd suggest those making seeds and seeing hermaphrodite traits are simply starting with very poor genetics. Again, I don't claim to be a professional breeder. I'm just a guy helping my fellow growers access good genetics for free.

 

[GMT]

The main usage of S1 seeds, is to examine all future recombinations of one genome. Any negative tendencies masked by other, more desirable genes, will be displayed in SOME of the S1 generation. In the ABSENCE of such plants, that P1 can be given the go ahead for the creation of an F1 pool.
If looking to recreate, then the S1 generation would not be the place to look, but rather the S1,F2 gen. As different S1 seeds will inherit different combinations of different slices of the P1 content. When these slices then meet in the F2 gen, you'll get a more complete picture of the original (assuming the correct selections are made).
S1 is not really a route to, what we call, an ibl. Rather a tool to establish whether or not a P1 is a suitable starting point. Much the same as stress testing does, albeit for different purposes and to identify different things. Ibls should contain as much of the original gene pool as possible, however have removed some unwanted tendencies from the overall gene pool. I don't think, the old ideal of double haploid equivalent seed lines, would actually be desirable in the real world.

 

[Hammerhead]

All I want to do is fix the desirable traits I like or preserve something special. Selfing is the quickest method to lock those down. It's doc everywhere. Selfing leads to a rapid loss of genetic diversity, causing genetic stability to increase quickly. That is what I want. Making proper selections for those traits is important. It is a great tool IMO to fix certain desirable traits. Do some see it as cutting corners sure. Inbreeding depression is a risk. Using this method has worked well for me. I don't see any reason to change.

Currently making Sour Dubble S3. S1 and S2 were spot on for the traits I want. No issues with inbreeding depression or inferior/herm plants. I'll see how the S3 performs.

 

[Timj]

All I want to do is fix the desirable traits I like or preserve something special. Selfing is the quickest method to lock those down. It's doc everywhere. Selfing leads to a rapid loss of genetic diversity, causing genetic stability to increase quickly. That is what I want. Making proper selections for those traits is important. It is a great tool IMO to fix certain desirable traits. Do some see it as cutting corners sure. Inbreeding depression is a risk. Using this method has worked well for me. I don't see any reason to change.

Currently making Sour Dubble S3. S1 and S2 were spot on for the traits I want. No issues with inbreeding depression or inferior/herm plants. I'll see how the S3 performs.

I agree, I make seeds for the very same reasons. I'm not trying to recreate the wheel. Just pick the straightest one and roll it on forward.

 

[Hammerhead]

Everyone loved the s1 and s2. Most of them were freebies.

 

[Tynehead Tom]

All I want to do is fix the desirable traits I like or preserve something special. Selfing is the quickest method to lock those down. It's doc everywhere. Selfing leads to a rapid loss of genetic diversity, causing genetic stability to increase quickly. That is what I want. Making proper selections for those traits is important. It is a great tool IMO to fix certain desirable traits. Do some see it as cutting corners sure. Inbreeding depression is a risk. Using this method has worked well for me. I don't see any reason to change.

Currently making Sour Dubble S3. S1 and S2 were spot on for the traits I want. No issues with inbreeding depression or inferior/herm plants. I'll see how the S3 performs.

i certainly don't disagree with your thinking and practice @Hammerhead , I know you put the time in with your plants. I missed out on the Sour Dubble S1 / S2 seeds so hope you make lots of S3 hehehe
I don't think any of us are wrong in our comments on the subject.
Maybe my particular comments are just based on what I have observed among growers I know that have done selfing projects over the past decade. Some had great results and the S1 offspring were stable while quite a few others produced seeds with mutations and intersex. Having watched this all play out I decided a while ago to be real fussy with what I am going to choose as a S1 parent. Same goes for regular breeding with male/female combos.
I am currently using STS on the OGKB 2.0 so hope to make some crosses and a small grip of S1 seeds to hunt thru.

 

[Hammerhead]

We can say that with any seeds we make. Ive had the same results. There is no guarantee any project will be a success regardless of what kind we make. Quality plants seem to happen more often in fem or selfed seeds than reg seeds for me. One hasn't produced more herms than the other. The results we get are what moves the project forward or scrapped.

Why plants herm is not easy to understand. Some plants will herm indoors but grow fine outdoors where there is more stress. Some will herm in perfect health and not when poorly grown. I'm not comfy telling someone they won't find intersex even though there tested well in my garden and I didn't find any issues. Poorly grown plants shouldn't mean the project is prone to herm. Stressing a plant is just another way of saying poorly grown. Trying to fix other's growing mistakes doesn't seem logical to me. Intersex issues in healthy happy plants are more of a concern to me and would be a failure/scrapped.

If we make proper selections and test everything the projects can move forward until done or failed. With the gene pool today I have no clue if something had self pollinated at some point and used to breed again. I would guess that has happened a lot. What I make and move forward is based on my results good or bad. .

 

[Treevly]

I need to know how much colloidal silver (40%) I need to treat one fairly large plant. I need to feminize enough of it to pollinate the rest of it, you might say. Ounces? A litre?
Thank you.

 

[Timj]

I need to know how much colloidal silver (40%) I need to treat one fairly large plant. I need to feminize enough of it to pollinate the rest of it, you might say. Ounces? A litre?
Thank you.

I use 2-4 ounces on small 1/2 gallon potted plants,dependent on their structure.

 

[Treevly]

I use 2-4 ounces on small 1/2 gallon potted plants,dependent on their structure.

Thank you. Over what time period? That is, how long is it until the pollen sacs appear?

 

[Timj]

Thank you. Over what time period? That is, how long is it until the pollen sacs appear?

I start spraying one week before I change to 12/12 lighting and 3 more weeks after, for most plants I reverse.

 

[Treevly]

Is there any particular brand of colloidal silver to buy, or source to buy it from? I was reading one review on Amazon and someone complained that the 40 PPM stuff which they bought actually tested at 18 PPM. Who knows?

 

[Hammerhead]

Ive used the Wellness Colloidal Silver 30 PPM 12 years ago and it worked. I was new to making fem seeds so I used the whole bottle. This was the only time I used CS. I switched to STS.

 

[Treevly]

TIMING: It seems that spraying should begin when female start to show gender. What would happen to spray flowers which were a week or two into serious flowering? Would the process still work?
Thank you.

 

[LG/]

I have to second what someone said about sts being better. More reliable. Better result.
Toxic? Maybe. Just wear gloves and be careful when spraying.
Cs may not work well for you. Fair warning