Feeding During Stretch

[HarleyJammer]

So, my experience is heavily weighted on super soils and indica doms.. always seemed to grow for others' preferences. Now, I am going to focus on sativa strains just for my own medicine. My plan is to employ small container root restriction to minimize stretch then up-pot post stretch. I will veg the clones for one week then flip to flower. I would like to try Roots Organics Terp Teas to feed them. Anywho, during the 4-5 week stretch period how do you handle the NPK ratio?

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

No different than I would any other time - a NPK ratio of around 3-1-2. Then again I march to my own drummer, surely not to much of anything I read in these forums.

Root restriction stunts the plant due to root inefficiency which I guess might reduce stretch.

Lots of ways to deal with leggie sativas - topping, applying paclobutranzol, etc.

 

[HarleyJammer]

No different than I would any other time - a NPK ratio of around 3-1-2. Then again I march to my own drummer, surely not to much of anything I read in these forums.

Root restriction stunts the plant due to root inefficiency which I guess might reduce stretch.

Lots of ways to deal with leggie sativas - topping, applying paclobutranzol, etc.

Hey there, Uncle Ben. Thanks for chiming in. I have read many of your posts; just not here but on other forums as well. I definently can respect your growing skills. Yes, I am aware of your disdain for the cannabis nutes and the love for Osmocote. If I was to run 30+ indica doms (like I used to) I would surely give the Osmocote a try instead of the usual hot supersoil. Moving into 90%+ sativas I would like to have more control of their vittles. As a former medical scientist I just like to try new things and test them out.

 

[xtsho]

I grow lots of sativas indoors. I've been growing sativas almost exclusively for the last 3-4 years. I don't do anything special during stretch. Sativas are typically not heavy feeders. If you grow them in a hot supersoil you stand a good chance of growing plants with severely clawed leaves, reduced yield, and compromised final product quality.

I know that many people on the cannabis forums think you need to tweak this and that for this week or that week but you really don't.

Anyway, good luck with the sativas. Have you got any specific strains in mind? ACE has quite a few good ones.

 

[HarleyJammer]

I grow lots of sativas indoors. I've been growing sativas almost exclusively for the last 3-4 years. I don't do anything special during stretch. Sativas are typically not heavy feeders. If you grow them in a hot supersoil you stand a good chance of growing plants with severely clawed leaves, reduced yield, and compromised final product quality.

I know that many people on the cannabis forums think you need to tweak this and that for this week or that week but you really don't.

Anyway, good luck with the sativas. Have you got any specific strains in mind? ACE has quite a few good ones.

Hi X. Yeah, I dont want to overdose them on N. The hot supersoil worked well for me on the indica doms. I have a couple Ace Thai A5 Hazes and a few Green Mountain Gold Mountains that just peeked out of the dirt.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Hey there, Uncle Ben. Thanks for chiming in. I have read many of your posts; just not here but on other forums as well. I definently can respect your growing skills. Yes, I am aware of your disdain for the cannabis nutes and the love for Osmocote. If I was to run 30+ indica doms (like I used to) I would surely give the Osmocote a try instead of the usual hot supersoil. Moving into 90%+ sativas I would like to have more control of their vittles. As a former medical scientist I just like to try new things and test them out.

I hear ya. Done lots of experiments, it's fun. Check this out. It's a new one on me. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/soil-fertilizers/how-brassinolides-work-in-plants.htm



Good luck!

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

If you're going to use small pots, for whatever reason, be sure to use a root pruning type, see my link.

What are those black knobby pots @CocoNut 420? Look similar to the Rootmaker products I use.

UB

 

[CocoNut 420]

If you're going to use small pots, for whatever reason, be sure to use a root pruning type, see my link.

What are those black knobby pots @CocoNut 420? Look similar to the Rootmaker products I use.

UB

They're airpots, its basically the same as root builders, recently i've taken to using the pouches for convenience, I get 10 pouches into a big suacer and i can feed them in one go throughout the clone/seedling stage.

The airpots work great I'll get back to them, atm I'm searching through a number of seeds for the best one's, when I get back to cloning the mother's I'll use them again.

 

[Fuel]

My plan is to employ small container root restriction to minimize stretch then up-pot post stretch.

I think it's an error. During the stretch, most of sativas dig hard and constitute the "final wrap" of the root mass for the yield.

It's specifically the time to enrich in kelp and other stuff like it to promote a good density of roots, that help to reduce elongation actually. The more the plant is stimulated to build its anchor (initially against the winds), the less it try to stab the roof of your tent.

You enemy is not N by the way, but auxins during this stage. Cons : to have a decent yield, you need this peak of auxin too, it's root's fuel too. Cornelian choice if you want to use an auxin antagonist ...

My strategy for strains like kalimist by example that stretch the hell is simple and primitive : i pinch each internodes of the trunk and it's generally far enough during this stressful ~month.

 

[HarleyJammer]

I think it's an error. During the stretch, most of sativas dig hard and constitute the "final wrap" of the root mass for the yield.

It's specifically the time to enrich in kelp and other stuff like it to promote a good density of roots, that help to reduce elongation actually. The more the plant is stimulated to build its anchor (initially against the winds), the less it try to stab the roof of your tent.

You enemy is not N by the way, but auxins during this stage. Cons : to have a decent yield, you need this peak of auxin too, it's root's fuel too. Cornelian choice if you want to use an auxin antagonist ...

My strategy for strains like kalimist by example that stretch the hell is simple and primitive : i pinch each internodes of the trunk and it's generally far enough during this stressful ~month.

Hi Fuel. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! This being my first foray into the realm of tents and sativas I have zero experience to fall back on. According to ACE/Dubi it is suggested to minimize the stretch by starting the plants in 1-3L then up-potting after stretch. Yesterday, I found a High Times article that offered that approach as well. Regarding N: I would like to be more cognizant of how much N I will throw at these sats. I have read that excess N will drive stretch and give off tastes of the flowers. Real science? Bro science? I'm not sure.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Regarding N: I would like to be more cognizant of how much N I will throw at these sats. I have read that excess N will drive stretch and give off tastes of the flowers. Real science? Bro science? I'm not sure.

It's questionable as is most of what you read around here. https://gpnmag.com/article/what-really-causes-stretch/

Let's address hormones - auxins are one of the hormones that drive tissue production. It is what it is. You can play games with PGRs, which I have. When you top either the roots via root pruning mechanisms see https://www.mjguide.com/tutorials/GrowthCont/1321.htm or top growth you re-distribute the auxins to new tissue, see my "Uncle Ben's Topping to Get 2 to 4 main Colas" ditty.

I don't do tents, never have. They are too restrictive. Plants can only be confined so much and pure sativas want to run and stretch. Take this old garden of mine where in spite of topping a Dalat Vietnamese sativa several times it grew right past the HID's. I just let it. The leaves that receive good light are a source of nutrition such that the carbos produced are distributed throughout the plant.

The Defoliate Generation X just can't understand this concept and think that by providing light, (removing the very plant unit that drives production) to the lower levels of the plant will sometimes boost those buds at the mid to lower level.

It does not. Pick an apple (or orange or avocado or mango....) totally shaded by the tree's canopy but I digress.

Most effective means of drastically reducing stretch aka internode lengths is thru an application or two of a PGR called Paclobutrazol that inhibits gibberellin biosynthesis in plants.

I may apply it not only on cannabis but on tall lanky avocado trees.

Uncle Ben

 

[HarleyJammer]

It's bullshit as is most of what you read around here. https://gpnmag.com/article/what-really-causes-stretch/

Let's address hormones - auxins are one of the hormones that drive tissue production. When you top either the roots via root pruning mechanisms see https://www.mjguide.com/tutorials/GrowthCont/1321.htm or top growth you re-distribute the auxins to new tissue, see my "Uncle Ben's Topping to Get 2 to 4 main Colas" ditty.

I don't do tents, never have. They are too restrictive. Plants can only be confined so much and pure sativas want to run and stretch. Take this old garden of mine where in spite of topping a Dalat Vietnamese sativa several times it grew right past the HID's. I just let it. The leaves that receive good light are a source of nutrition such that the carbos produced are distributed throughout the plant.

The Defoliate Generation X just can't understand this concept and think that by providing light, (removing the very plant unit that drives production) to the lower levels of the plant will sometimes boost those buds at the mid to lower level.

It does not. Pick an apple (or orange or avocado or mango....) totally shaded by the tree's canopy but I digress.


View attachment 18946857

Most effective means of drastically reducing stretch aka internode lengths is thru an application or two of a PGR called Paclobutrazol that inhibits gibberellin biosynthesis in plants.

I may apply it not only on cannabis but on tall lanky avocado trees.

View attachment 18946867

Uncle Ben

Very interesting, Uncle Ben. I cannot or would not proclaim myself a pro botanist by any stretch (pun intended). Going from a full basement nursery/veg/flower rooms to totally uninhibited outdoors (36 plant med grow to a tiny tent is the epitome of restriction. But if I want my meds this is how its going to have to be. I would much rather call a tropical climate home and grow the sativas into monsters outdoors but alas such is my present life.

My original question remains: How do you approach NPK ratios during stretch? After putting on my thinking cap I might have come up with a game plan to get my feet wet. Either way, I'll grow some good smoke.. might not be perfect the first, second, or even third run.. but I'll get 'er done.. with or without IC.

 

[weedemart]

So, my experience is heavily weighted on super soils and indica doms.. always seemed to grow for others' preferences. Now, I am going to focus on sativa strains just for my own medicine. My plan is to employ small container root restriction to minimize stretch then up-pot post stretch. I will veg the clones for one week then flip to flower. I would like to try Roots Organics Terp Teas to feed them. Anywho, during the 4-5 week stretch period how do you handle the NPK ratio?

There will be no control with this type of natural fertilizer but it appears to be of good quality. I would mix the two to balance because the vegetation one is much too rich in nitrogen. so let's say an equal dose gives you an npk of 10-8-5, quite a bit better. and I would use it like that from start to finish. It's your eye that will tell you if they are too rich in nitrogen. Before switching to 12/12 slightly reduce the dose of fertilizer but not too much so that it turns yellow, in short just enough to keep them green, this will reduce the stretch. After 2 weeks of 12/12 go back to the normal dose.

 

[dogzter]

Very interesting, Uncle Ben. I cannot or would not proclaim myself a pro botanist by any stretch (pun intended). Going from a full basement nursery/veg/flower rooms to totally uninhibited outdoors (36 plant med grow to a tiny tent is the epitome of restriction. But if I want my meds this is how its going to have to be. I would much rather call a tropical climate home and grow the sativas into monsters outdoors but alas such is my present life.

My original question remains: How do you approach NPK ratios during stretch? After putting on my thinking cap I might have come up with a game plan to get my feet wet. Either way, I'll grow some good smoke.. might not be perfect the first, second, or even third run.. but I'll get 'er done.. with or without IC.

The are two reasons for stretch environmental and genetic.
I fix the first and feed the second.

 

[Fuel]

According to ACE/Dubi it is suggested to minimize the stretch by starting the plants in 1-3L then up-potting after stretch.

It's something i find rational, but with all strains. I don't see the point to transplant a fresh sprout to a 2gal pot personally. Whatever it is.

Intermediate volumes permit to control the tempo and also to "hardened off" the plants with dense and sturdy root balls. But i know a lot of people now are frightened by any "stress" of the plant ... in pruning them and defoliating them as fuck at the same time. Strange era.

Regarding N: I would like to be more cognizant of how much N I will throw at these sats. I have read that excess N will drive stretch and give off tastes of the flowers. Real science? Bro science? I'm not sure.

I still think that you over-ponderate the N in your equation considering the stretch. I've grown them (pure afrikaans) outdoor in guerilla enough, without any amendments, to say that even with a global N deficiency ... they still stretch if their DNA have to. Look at the moroccan hash plants in their natural environment too ..

Obviously no longer ketama plants but hybrids ^^

Obviously legit cultivar ^^

I can tell you that i generally give a pre-shot of PK boost on top of the NPK base during the stretch but it's not for the elongation.

Don't be afraid by the stretch, you can train the apical shoot to make a spiral, you can pinch it, you can prune to you liking ... there is many way to adapt to your specific context.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

My original question remains: How do you approach NPK ratios during stretch?

I gave you quite a few choices which included a solid NPK ratio recommendation based on decades of gardening and trials. Again, you need to focus on raising a healthy plant, quit over thinking this and deal with it via training, topping, use of PGR's, etc.

What are your genetics, your varieties you are considering? We need to start there.

You want no stretch, then don't touch these!



I grew pure indicas last garden and for the most part there was no stretch. If your fear of the unknown as it relates to your garden setup and restraints has you frozen in the "what ifs" then grow what you are familiar with, deal with what you can manage.

I've spent many hours researching Mandala's offerings and they offer many medicinal varieties with some stretching to the moon and some not. Their descriptions are excellent. Doesn't mean their ads will hold up to each and every situation but at least it's a guide IF you can trust them as a trustworthy seedbank. They have a solid rep.

Good luck

 

[HarleyJammer]

I gave you quite a few choices which included a solid NPK ratio recommendation based on decades of gardening and trials. Again, you need to focus on raising a healthy plant, quit over thinking this and deal with it via training, topping, use of PGR's, etc.

What are your genetics, your varieties you are considering? We need to start there.

You want no stretch, then don't touch these!

View attachment 18947054

I grew pure indicas last garden and for the most part there was no stretch. If your fear of the unknown as it relates to your garden setup and restraints has you frozen in the "what ifs" then grow what you are familiar with, deal with what you can manage.

I've spent many hours researching Mandala's offerings and they offer many medicinal varieties with some stretching to the moon and some not. Their descriptions are excellent. Doesn't mean their ads will hold up to each and every situation but at least it's a guide IF you can trust them as a trustworthy seedbank. They have a solid rep.

Good luck

Please refer to the 2nd sentence of my original post. I am asking IC members that have experience growing sativas in restrictive environments their approach to feeding during the stretch. Apparently, you do not. This may come as a shock to you but throwing Osmocote on everything is not a one size fits all. Appreciate the time you have taken here but none of it is addressing my inquiry.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Just topped a leggie 90's Master Kush. https://www.icmag.com/threads/my-ga...ons-fire-away-im-here-to-help.18129483/page-2

 

[weedemart]

I gave you quite a few choices which included a solid NPK ratio recommendation based on decades of gardening and trials. Again, you need to focus on raising a healthy plant, quit over thinking this and deal with it via training, topping, use of PGR's, etc.

What are your genetics, your varieties you are considering? We need to start there.

You want no stretch, then don't touch these!

View attachment 18947054

I grew pure indicas last garden and for the most part there was no stretch. If your fear of the unknown as it relates to your garden setup and restraints has you frozen in the "what ifs" then grow what you are familiar with, deal with what you can manage.

I've spent many hours researching Mandala's offerings and they offer many medicinal varieties with some stretching to the moon and some not. Their descriptions are excellent. Doesn't mean their ads will hold up to each and every situation but at least it's a guide IF you can trust them as a trustworthy seedbank. They have a solid rep.

Good luck

I did hashberry,mandala1 , kalichakra and satori in the past. The winner was mandala1 and satori.

Mandala1 turn pink mid flower then purple close to the end. Very beatiful genetics.

Satori was not a keeper for me because I dont like the terp but it was very vigorous and commercial.

Their safari mix is a must for all serious breeder.

 

[growingcrazy]

Please refer to the 2nd sentence of my original post. I am asking IC members that have experience growing sativas in restrictive environments their approach to feeding during the stretch. Apparently, you do not. This may come as a shock to you but throwing Osmocote on everything is not a one size fits all. Appreciate the time you have taken here but none of it is addressing my inquiry.

Here is a simple and effective method..

During stretch foliar spray Amino N and calcium.

Example:
12% Amino N @ .5 grams/liter = 60 ppm N
21% Ca Gypsum @ .5 grams/liter = 105 ppm Ca (up to ~.75gr/ltr max, if you want extra Ca)

You can chelate the Ca first with an equal weight of an acid of choice(citric acid or apple cider vinegar if growing organic) before adding to the dissolved Amino.

Mix well and spray 2x per week in stretch. No need to do anything additional to the soil but water it. This leaves no added N in the root zone for the rest of flower.