Feedback on my RDWC setup (w.i.p)

[Gamberone]

To avoid spending hundreds of dollars on a water chiller, can put aquarium heater in res, set to 68F, and throw a soda bottle filled with ice in the res everyday.

...I've actually retired my chiller in favor of using ice, simply because I am at home with my grow, and I've got a badass fridge/freezer combo that pumps ice out like theres no tomorrow.

Got it, thanks

Also, regarding plant count vs. veg time, if you cut clones the day before flower, by the time you harvested you would be forced to cut your plant count down to 4, max (more like 2). Running a separate veg room costs almost nothing to run and can cut your waiting time in half. I'll never veg and flower in the same room if I can help it. If I'm not pulling every 2 months, something is wrong.

I have a question regarding this, if you scrog how do you manage the shape of the plant during veg if they veg in another room?
You have twice as many screens?



Back on the design, I know the rule is keep it simple, but since I have at least another week before I start the build, I'm reflecting on the possibilities, do you think this design is more efficient while still manageable?
(the number of bucket in the CG is still an example, still not decided on that)

The stadium shape scrog had a screen area of 3m2 / 33 feet2
the vertical one has an area of 4.8m2 / 51 feet2
and the vertical with external reservoir has 5.7 m2 / 61 feet2, but putting the reservoir outside will be not easy.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

Modular scrogs. My screens are affixed to the lids of my buckets. This allows me to move my buckets around within the tent, and it also allows me to remove my lids from my buckets. I start in 3.5 gallon buckets and move the lid's over to 5 gallon buckets for flowering.

I lst and "super crop" my plants in veg for as long as I can before I put the screens on. This allows me to use less light by keeping my buckets closer together.

 

[Can of Bliss]

I would say, I believe that vertical is superior but more difficult. If you're a first time grower, you'd probably get a better yield on the first grow horizontal. But by the 4th grow you'll probably be doing better in vert. How accessible will this be to you? How much time will you have to play with them in a given week? How much do you want this to be a labors hobby vs turn key free(ish) weed?

 

[Bobby Boucher]

vertical definitely has its benefits..i found that in cases where lack of space is not an issue, but wattage is and one wants to maximize their wattage, vertical is the way to go...on the other hand, in situations where lack of watts in not an issue but space is, and one wants to maximize their space as opposed to lighting, horizontal is still the way to go

ill give you an example..if I ran vert in this room, i could only fit a max of 8kw down the middle..and id loose a good 30% of my canopy...and even if i hit 3 elbows a bulb, that would only be 24 elbows...while with horizontal lighting i can fit 12-14 kw and pull as much as 32 elbows from a good run..while doing so much easier than it would be with vert

i love vert, its definitely a great technique in the right scenario..if i had double the space but could still only run 12kw, id do it in a heartbeat

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300255

I would read through all of this. Might put a few things in perspective. DJM deserves a nobel prize, imo.

 

[Gamberone]

I would say, I believe that vertical is superior but more difficult. If you're a first time grower, you'd probably get a better yield on the first grow horizontal. But by the 4th grow you'll probably be doing better in vert. How accessible will this be to you? How much time will you have to play with them in a given week? How much do you want this to be a labors hobby vs turn key free(ish) weed?

It's not my first grow, but it'll be my first with scrog, I have experience only with aero SoG that I gave up and regular DWC, but I have this same dubt I'll probably choose horizontal stadium in the end, but the temptation to go vertical and have an extra 10 or even 20 square feet of screen is high

About the work I can place into it, I can spent at least 2 hours a day everyday on this, more on weekends, it's still an hobby, but I would like to get the max out of my resources.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300255

I would read through all of this. Might put a few things in perspective. DJM deserves a nobel prize, imo.

I read the thread, ty, very interesting.
About the quote and the analysis on vertical vs horizontal I understand, but I think the situation here is different.
The thing that he is saying is valid if one is using the maximum light that the room and system can handle, but here the bulb count and power is fixed independently of going vertical or horizontal, so I think (I can be wrong idk) that the most important factor become the area of the screen, so the system with more area would be more efficient.

However how the difficulty scales? Which factors change?



Ok this is my last mock up, half dome with 3.9m2 / 44 feet2 area.
Time to decide for type of scrog and number of plants.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

I'll add that my long time super uber successful growing buddy, advocates a lot of the same thing DJM does, having never read the thread. OP's approach was nearly identical to mine until dude came in and gave me the 400-3x3 600-4x4 1000-5x5 and up guideline, and told me to keep my lights nice and high, aiming for around 40 watts per square foot. He also keeps everything abnormally hot and humid. Like 85f/80% all the time.

I have no stake in the claim. ~12 years ago there were some $4hunnit oz. floating around of some completely unreal shit and I was lucky enough to trace them back to the source and become good friends with the grower. I've never been able to nail the same cut quite the same way, but I've had the benefit of seeing it done right and it blows everyone away, every time. Shit WREAKS. You can't carry a bowl pack on you without reaping havoc on every nose in a 50' radius.

Cycle perpetually, low plant to light ratios, super crop, hang em high, use big reflectors, run it hot and humid, keep your feed basic as it's the least important factor in the garden, and unless you have vertical limitations (doesn't look like you do), you might want to consider taking that glass off altogether.

I'm still too proud to take some of this advice, but every run, I begrudgingly come around a little more. I've cut my watts per square foot by 60%, increased my watts per plant by 100%, and simplified my feeding down to the bare bones.

It really comes down to what you are trying to accomplish, though. How much you are expecting to yield, how much light your strain can handle, how well your strain bushes out or stretches, how many strains you intend to grow, whether or not you can dedicate a separate area for vegging, how quickly you want to be able to tear down, etc.. Every single mock up you have posted would be perfect for different individual situations.

If you aren't legit though, the risk of being pinched for felony manufacture outweighs the reward of hypothetically squeezing out any hypothetical extra percentage from such a small grow, imo. You'll sleep a lot better if you check state laws on the norml website and bear in mind that you can always do 9 week cycles and grow 1-2 lb plants under their own lights. Where I'm from, small grows have basically been decriminalized, but if you get caught with > a few plants, it's straight to the clink.

 

[Gamberone]

The only way you can grow cannabis in italy without committing felony is:

-maximum 3 plant only INDOOR
-you can't use additional lights/hps/led etc
-very low thc, (the law don't specify how much, but they weight the thc, and consider each #mg, one dose)
-if you respect all this and get caught it's not a criminal offense but it's still administrative offense, so you you get fined, driver's license revoked, problems even with the passport sometimes.


What you say still remains valid, less plants it's always a risk mitigation, but if you have 2 plants with 1lb of 18% thc buds on and you get caught you're fucked.

 

[Loc Dog]

I'll add that my long time super uber successful growing buddy, advocates a lot of the same thing DJM does, having never read the thread. OP's approach was nearly identical to mine until dude came in and gave me the 400-3x3 600-4x4 1000-5x5 and up guideline, and told me to keep my lights nice and high, aiming for around 40 watts per square foot. He also keeps everything abnormally hot and humid. Like 85f/80% all the time.

I have no stake in the claim. ~12 years ago there were some $4hunnit oz. floating around of some completely unreal shit and I was lucky enough to trace them back to the source and become good friends with the grower. I've never been able to nail the same cut quite the same way, but I've had the benefit of seeing it done right and it blows everyone away, every time. Shit WREAKS. You can't carry a bowl pack on you without reaping havoc on every nose in a 50' radius.

Cycle perpetually, low plant to light ratios, super crop, hang em high, use big reflectors, run it hot and humid, keep your feed basic as it's the least important factor in the garden, and unless you have vertical limitations (doesn't look like you do), you might want to consider taking that glass off altogether.

I'm still too proud to take some of this advice, but every run, I begrudgingly come around a little more. I've cut my watts per square foot by 60%, increased my watts per plant by 100%, and simplified my feeding down to the bare bones.

It really comes down to what you are trying to accomplish, though. How much you are expecting to yield, how much light your strain can handle, how well your strain bushes out or stretches, how many strains you intend to grow, whether or not you can dedicate a separate area for vegging, how quickly you want to be able to tear down, etc.. Every single mock up you have posted would be perfect for different individual situations.

If you aren't legit though, the risk of being pinched for felony manufacture outweighs the reward of hypothetically squeezing out any hypothetical extra percentage from such a small grow, imo. You'll sleep a lot better if you check state laws on the norml website and bear in mind that you can always do 9 week cycles and grow 1-2 lb plants under their own lights. Where I'm from, small grows have basically been decriminalized, but if you get caught with > a few plants, it's straight to the clink.

This is optimum temp/humidity. Probably best to be around 80 at canopy. Have another chart showing canopy at 80 - 86.



You want to stay in the gold zone for optimum growth/flowering. It is called a VPD chart, Vapor Pressure Deficit.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

What you say still remains valid, less plants it's always a risk mitigation, but if you have 2 plants with 1lb of 18% thc buds on and you get caught you're fucked.

I honestly didn't start growing trees to mitigate legal repercussions, I started growing trees because I was struggling to hit good yields with multiple plants per light, and I was sick of watching dude out-yield me with less plants and less light like clockwork. It took a loooooooot of convincing to get me to drop my plant count. I had my room set up just like your mock up's (very nicely thought out rdwc), so there was a lot of pride (and money) involved. Every time my plant count went down though, my yields went up, and my workload went down. A lot of people notice the same thing when they drop their count.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

If my mentor was here, he'd tell you to hang a 1x1000w barebulb up high in the middle of your room and to grow just one plant. When he stepped into my finely tuned and thoroughly planned 12'x8' he was like "stop recirculating your water, hang two lights, and grow two plants". Pissed me right off. But.. that's 15 years of cash cropping experience. Annoying right? Annoyed me SOOOOO bad. So much conflicting info in the cannabis world.

 

[Can of Bliss]

This is optimum temp/humidity. Probably best to be around 80 at canopy. Have another chart showing canopy at 80 - 86.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51120&pictureid=1650202&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

You want to stay in the gold zone for optimum growth/flowering. It is called a VPD chart, Vapor Pressure Deficit.

Thanks! I was just about to look for that chart.

 

[The_Enthusiast]

If my mentor was here, he'd tell you to hang a 1x1000w barebulb up high in the middle of your room and to grow just one plant. When he stepped into my finely tuned and thoroughly planned 12'x8' he was like "stop recirculating your water, hang two lights, and grow two plants". Pissed me right off. But.. that's 15 years of cash cropping experience. Annoying right? Annoyed me SOOOOO bad. So much conflicting info in the cannabis world.

I have to agree on this, there is so much opposing and rubbish info in this business. At the moment I'm trying to figure out how much light (PAR light not human eye seeing light) per m2 is beneficial to plants. If all other factors are right (nutrients/temps/genetics) how much light can increase yield?

 

[Bobby Boucher]

I have to agree on this, there is so much opposing and rubbish info in this business. At the moment I'm trying to figure out how much light (PAR light not human eye seeing light) per m2 is beneficial to plants. If all other factors are right (nutrients/temps/genetics) how much light can increase yield?

DJM clears A LOT of things up really well in his thread, imo. It's all very strain specific. Don uses 1000's over 5.5'x5.5' with 4' vertizontal reflectors and does ~2.5lbs per light @ 30.057 w per square foot growing 9 week sativas, hanging his lights up HIGH and leaving them there.

I would find out how much par it took to induce bleaching, and then take at least 25% off the top.

I've noticed that trying to keep my sativas shorter by blasting them with light really clogs things up and shits on my yields.

 

[Gamberone]

This argumentation should probably be done taking count of the real lumens measurement at the canopy since the different factors which may come in play. Very interested if someone can refer to practical/theoretical experiment in merit.


About my setup, my final decision was to have 6 total plants (3 for side), this was dictated by the fact that I can't have a second room for veg, but only a small one for clonemaking, so with only two plants the veg time would have been excessively long, 6 should be the right compromise.

I already setup the tent and built the scrog screens, the final design was a stadium-like variation with a total surface of 4.4 m2 (47 feet2), the parts for the rdwc are on they way, and I will soon publish some photos of the build.

I got a 560 cfm fan and I can "manually" chill the water, I hope I can manage the heat, will also light the room at night.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

Are you using RO? I struggled to maintain adequate chlorine levels in my rdwc without a chlorine meter, and wound up dealing with a lot of nasties. Probably should have just ran tap water to begin with. Untreated RO can get pretty funky pretty fast, especially with all the nooks and crannies in a recirculating system. I personally like the copper sulfate (dm goldzone) route. 1ml/gallon keeps everything white and film-free.

Also, check out the new sensorpush if you haven't already. $50 bluetooth temp/rh logger with iphone and android connectivity. Quite accurate, and very helpful in dialing in your controller.. Not a rep or anything, I just love the hell out of mine. I bought 1 for veg, 1 for flower, and 1 for dry. Indispensable, imo.

I've got my seat pulled up

 

[Gamberone]

Are you using RO? I struggled to maintain adequate chlorine levels in my rdwc without a chlorine meter, and wound up dealing with a lot of nasties. Probably should have just ran tap water to begin with. Untreated RO can get pretty funky pretty fast, especially with all the nooks and crannies in a recirculating system. I personally like the copper sulfate (dm goldzone) route. 1ml/gallon keeps everything white and film-free.

I mix tap water with RO because my tap water has a high ppm, in my previous grow I used commercial bleach (6% sodium hypochlorite) at first at 2.5ppm when I noticed some brown algae on my roots, and then at 0.5ppm as maintenance and it worked very well, fixed the problem fast and without side effects

I will check the copper sulfate

Also, check out the new sensorpush if you haven't already. $50 bluetooth temp/rh logger with iphone and android connectivity. Quite accurate, and very helpful in dialing in your controller.. Not a rep or anything, I just love the hell out of mine. I bought 1 for veg, 1 for flower, and 1 for dry. Indispensable, imo.

I've got my seat pulled up

Hmm this is very interesting, getting a notification if something is wrong would be a great anxiety relief, ty