Feedback on my RDWC setup (w.i.p)

[Gamberone]

I want to create a RDWC system and I would like your feedback on this setup. In the upcoming weeks I'm going to update this thread with the real build.

So, my idea is:

A 1.2 m x 1.2 m veg tent, equipped with:
-GHE Rainforest 36
-T8 light over the rainforest
-2x DWC buckets for clone makers moms
-5LPM air pump
-2x 125w CFL

And a RDWC 2x2x2m flower room equipped with:
- 12 RDWC 5 gal buckets sysem
- 90L/24gal reservoir
- 1000L/h / 270gal/H pump
- 70 LPM air pump
- 2x 600w HPS (maybe I can add a third, but idk the placement)

The idea is to:
-Take clones from the mothers
-Let them develop root in the rainforest
-Move them to the RDWC as soon as the root is developed
-Do 7 days of veg
-Jump to 12/12


What do you think? This is manageable?
There are major flaws in the setup that I missed?

Also it would be possible to upgrade the system to a 4x 600w HPS in the future, or it's too much for this setup?

 

[Can of Bliss]

For the flowering room, 2 600's for that square footage (or meters) is really the bare minimum. 3 or 4 would be much better. I would do a ScrOG in that setup, but that's a personal preference.

I always like to consider the ergonomics, how long is your arm, where will you be able to stand.

What CAD are you using?

 

[Can of Bliss]

Just reread your post. You're talking about SOG growing, but the flowering room has huge plants in it. I don't know SOG well, but I think you would want roughly 4 smaller plants in the place of each of those trees you have in the model.

And on a similar note, I always prefer to stager rows. It's just a better way to pack circles into a square.

 

[Gamberone]

Hmm I see, I can probably add a third light (even if I have dubts on the placement), but a 4x 600w would probably be too much on my power, I have to think about it... maybe with lower power consumption LEDs?

The model is made on sketchup, the rendering on keyshot.

It's just me or the images disappeared? I can't see the anymore

 

[Can of Bliss]

They are still showing here.

If you want it to be a 1,200 watt grow, maybe make the room smaller. At 50 watts per square foot that would be 24 square feet (2.23 Sq meters). So maybe 2m x 1.1m with the 2 lights.

 

[Gamberone]

About the scrog, my plan was to use the "tuck inside the cage" technique, I don't know if it has a proper name, it's basically like this you tuck all the branches upward and this way, the result is something similar to a scrog, the plants in the CG are tree shaped because I was lazy and I downloaded an already made model and placed there xD


But the reason I opened this thread was indeed to get suggestion/criticism, so I'm open to any advice!



Anyway here are the images again since they fled from the open post

veg room:


RDWC flower room:

 

[Can of Bliss]

That's a nice training system for that design, but I'm thinking for most strains you'd want to veg them out at least 3 weeks before flowering.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

the reason I opened this thread was indeed to get suggestion/criticism, so I'm open to any advice!

Matter of preference really, but I perpetually (and effectively) fill a similar space with 2 plants under modular scrogs with 9-10 weeks of veg, 1 plant per 600, hitting ~1gpw.

I can cycle +/- 1000 g's every 60 days without ever having more than 4 plants in my possession. Something to take into consideration, if you aren't cleared for that kind of plant count, or don't happen to have all the privacy in the world. My 2 cents.

 

[Gamberone]

Matter of preference really, but I perpetually (and effectively) fill a similar space with 2 plants under modular scrogs with 9-10 weeks of veg, 1 plant per 600, hitting ~1gpw.

I can cycle +/- 1000 g's every 60 days without ever having more than 4 plants in my possession. Something to take into consideration, if you aren't cleared for that kind of plant count, or don't happen to have all the privacy in the world. My 2 cents.

I see, this is interesting, but I'm not proficient in the technique of scrog, any guide in particular I can read to mimic that kind of system?


In the meantime I thought the placement for a 3 or 4 lights setup with this same system, to power 3 lights would be more realistic actually, but maybe I can force a 4th, also I realized that I need cool tubes to manage the temperature with more lights. It gets hot here, with 2 lights already was hardly manageable.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

There's a lot of conflicting stuff online. Some people say you can only scrog from seed, some say you can't do a proper scrog without topping, but any way you decide to do it, you are still opening the plant up, creating a more even canopy allowing for more even penetration, and proving a ton of support.

It just takes practice. People do it differently. I personally keep small eye hooks screwed into the perimeter of my bucket lids, and force my plants to grow horizontally using some string and taut-line hitches. First I tie the base of the plant off, and then I pull the plant over sideways from the opposite side (using another string). This encourages multiple heads to grow. The initial head will slow it's role and the now exposed branches will start to take over. Keeping the eye hooks (and the tie-offs) directly opposite of each other protects the stem from snapping or pulling up on the roots and allows for much tighter bends.

This is how I LowStressTrain (LST). I keep everything < 10" tall this way. I do this for ~5 weeks. At this point I attach a pvc screen to my bucket lid, using 2 t's and 4 hose clamps, ~ 8" above the substrate. At this point (and every other point, really) getting the plant to fill up the screen comes down to directing my lighting towards the branches I am trying to encourage to grow.

By keeping your growth below your screen 2-3 weeks into flower, you create a plant that when observed from above, will look a perfect sea of nuggage.

Before I started scroggin, my yields were pretty laughable. That christmas shaped tree figure you have there is natures best way of absorbing the light from the sun, not from a stationary light.

Keep it horizonal, braj.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

Also, you generally don't want to cool your tubes in a series like that if you don't have to. Better to pet a 3-way or 4-way on opposite ends of your run, so each tube is pulling cool fresh air.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

Ducting example. Bear in mind, I'm no hvac tech.

 

[Can of Bliss]

Also, you generally don't want to cool your tubes in a series like that if you don't have to. Better to pet a 3-way or 4-way on opposite ends of your run, so each tube is pulling cool fresh air.

So I was just thinking about this post and did some math expecting it to work out in a way that would show the logic in this, but it didn't work out the way I expected.

So I used the air density and specific heat that popped up on Google first. These fluctuate with humidity and temperature, but they seemed good enough to get a picture of what's going on.
Another large jump assumption is that for a 600 watt hps they cool tube could grab 500 watts.
And I went with a 200cfm fan because that (from gut instinct) seemed a little bit undersized, and I wanted to see subtle problems.

So that math applied to some models.

The inline ducting results in the last bulb getting warm air blown on it, so that's not awesome, but not to a problematic level. With a manifold the possibility of different flow rates because of different resistance seem like a much bigger risk.

The way air behaves around an object changes with speed, so that might be a factor (which I didn't consider). But that might go in favor of the single duct.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

With a manifold the possibility of different flow rates because of different resistance seem like a much bigger risk.

Love it. I've been wanting to actually work it out for awhile, but I didn't quite know where to start. You can almost tell something aint quite right just by looking at it. I'm sure either issue could be negated by simply over-powering your exhaust. I pull 600 cfm through 2 cool tubes via 2 wye's and 8' of ducting. When I ran 3 lights, I had the set up in a series ducted straight through and didn't notice any ill effects. I read somewhere here that can be hard on your ballasts, so I stopped setting up that way.

I wanted to start my own thread awhile back with this illustration to see if anyone could work out the math. Thanks for the homework!

 

[Can of Bliss]

Bobby, glad you enjoyed. I'm not an expert, just trying to figure this all out as best as I'm capable of.

Just by gut I would have said 500cfm minimum for 4 600w hps. 200 cfm was supposed to be too low. I was planning on working it out for 400 cfm and 600cfm to compare.

 

[Loc Dog]

Have you considered putting the reservoir and the ballasts outside of the room/tent??

The water should ideally be 68F, not below 66F or above 72F.

Another consideration is that you need to have all the plants wanting the same type of feed. If you have different varieties requiring different feeds, might want to split it up into 2 or 4 systems.

 

[Gamberone]

Bobby, glad you enjoyed. I'm not an expert, just trying to figure this all out as best as I'm capable of.

Just by gut I would have said 500cfm minimum for 4 600w hps. 200 cfm was supposed to be too low. I was planning on working it out for 400 cfm and 600cfm to compare.

Great work man, I had the doubt about the inline setup, I think I'll go with the inline + big fan

Have you considered putting the reservoir and the ballasts outside of the room/tent??

The water should ideally be 68F, not below 66F or above 72F.

I can place the ballasts outside, but not the reservoir unluckily. About the water temperature, I think the working numbers are a little less strict, in some previous grow I reached 80F even a bit more maybe, it's not ideal probably, but the roots were healthy and the grow was concluded successfully.



Anyway, I studied a bit more the scrog technique and I'm curious to try it, the setup would be something like this, I know 12 plants are a little overkill for this technique, I'm still undecided if scaling down to 4 or 6 plants, the advantage of doing more plant would be a shorter veg time... I will see.

The V screen would grant an extra 0.4 m2 nearly 5ft2 area, for a total of 3m2 / 33ft2 of screen.

As always I'm open to advice/criticism.

 

[Can of Bliss]

I like the look of the stadium screens.

You could put in a removable wall dividing the plant part of the room and the tank. That would probably keep the water a few degrees cooler. It would be good for reflecting light too.

 

[Loc Dog]

You can do a google search "dwc water temp". They all say pretty much the same -

Q: What is the ideal water temperature for DWC systems?

A: We’ve observed that no matter the ambient air temperature, plant roots tend to do best at 62–68°F (17–20°C). Above 72°F (21°C) the solutions dissolved oxygen (DO) holding potential quickly diminishes and below 60°F (16°C) plants tend to slow their metabolism in response to what is perceived as changing seasons. This said, growers could aid in fruit/flower ripening by reducing water temps toward the end of the reproductive cycle. Being able to dial in each zone of the plant (Leaf/Root) specifically often leads to an amplification of plant productivity.

To avoid spending hundreds of dollars on a water chiller, can put aquarium heater in res, set to 68F, and throw a soda bottle filled with ice in the res everyday.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

About the water temperature, I think the working numbers are a little less strict, in some previous grow I reached 80F even a bit more maybe, it's not ideal probably, but the roots were healthy and the grow was concluded successfully.

Bird up. Your roots will stay nice and white providing you keep you water clean and oxygenated, and your plant will surely grow at 80f. However, I've noticed at those temps that my yield suffers, like by 20% or more. ROI on a chiller is ~500%, first run, providing you fill your tent up. I've actually retired my chiller in favor of using ice, simply because I am at home with my grow, and I've got a badass fridge/freezer combo that pumps ice out like theres no tomorrow.

I don't bother chilling my veg plants since my cfl's don't heat the tent up the same way my HID's do. Come flower though, that substrate needs to stay <75 if you are trying to maximize your yield.

Also, regarding plant count vs. veg time, if you cut clones the day before flower, by the time you harvested you would be forced to cut your plant count down to 4, max (more like 2). Running a separate veg room costs almost nothing to run and can cut your waiting time in half. I'll never veg and flower in the same room if I can help it. If I'm not pulling every 2 months, something is wrong.