Fast hitting vs. Creeper High? what's causing it?

[Chevy cHaze]

Hello stoners of the world,
I've searched the issue here on icmag, but wasn't satisfied with what I found. Also, the last thread touching on the topic ended in 2014...
So once again, in a reheated version: Any ideas what's causing the fast hit and the creeper version of getting high ?
I'm at a point where I'm convinced it must be the terpene makeup of a plant, rather than the cannabinoids and their ratios. Or most likely a mix of the two.
Another observation I've made through curing sativa dominant hybrids for long periods of time, some even cobbed as to be seen in member Tangwena's beautifil traditional Malawi cobbing thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=309172
The longer the cure, the smoother the smoke, the more long lasting and more intense the high and the more of a creeper oncome.

I even vacuumed and long term stored some OG Kush (harvested July2017) and Bubblegum (harvested April 2017)to see what would
happen to indica heavy hybrids, and it's the same physics it appears. From fast hitting to serious creeper in 6 months of vacuumed storage.
All of them developed a much, much more intense high over the months and all are major creepers now. Effects start with a delay as long as 10min and then continually build up even if I stop smoking for another 40min, coming and going in waves, then plateau for a couple hours, then an easy touchdown which was not the case at all for example with the Bubblegum that was strong to start with.
Now we know that during the cure some THCA breaks down to THC and some THC breaks down to CBN, but what are your experiences here ?

Do plants with a fast onset and long duration exist ?
The samples of my sativa heavy Sour Blueberry and Jack Herer are now almost too intense and trippy. A few tokes will last forever.
Any insights what's going on here in detail or anecdotal evidence and points of view ?
Let's re-start the discussion, please Gentlemen!

tripping out over some Sour Blueberry from last August with a cup of coffee on a saturday morning,
CC

 

[coldcanna]

The essential oils (terps, other constituants) degrade rather quickly. Freshly cut flower would be about 95% monoterpenes to 5% sesquiterpenes, as the bud ages the monoterps volatilize and the balance of sesquiterpenes goes up to 50/50 or even beyond.

We know that THC degrades to CBN over time. THC does not degrade as quickly as your essential oils if properly stored. So if your noticing a difference after a couple months it seems plausible that the effects you describe are more closely related to the essential oils.

On the other hand.... have you done controls side by side with the exact same harvest? As in smoking fresh nug and curing the same nug and the high is different? It could just be that a higher THC plant hits you much faster

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Interesting and makes sense that the terpenes go first... smell can leave but you still get high...
Do they actually degrade or just "evaporate " ?
I've monitored bud from the same exact plant from a couple days after drying to now 7months jar cured, vacuumed and even cobbed(and also vacuumed). The traditionally jar cured has changed massively over those 7month, the vacuumed bud has changed even more and the cobbed stuff is taking it the furthest.
I used to puff a fatty alone, now I take three puffs and find myself listening to music for hours not able to smoke more.
Which is a nice thing, but it's so much different from when it was just fresh or cured for just a few weeks.
And what's with beta-myrcene, the stuff that gives the frankincencse smell and taste to most hazes? I always thought that was responsible for a creeper effect, but not so sure anymore.My Jack Herer is intense with frankincense, and a creeper but the OGK and Bubblegum have none of it and have also turned into major creepers by now...just through the long term storage...

CC

 

[hunt4genetics]

Interesting topic. I look forwards to the responses.

 

[Dropped Cat]

subbed.

I'll be back with some observations on the cultivars
I've held for several years with notes on various sweating and concentrates effects.

As been stated, cobbed vs hashish vs long cured traditional buds,
all give different effects.

Good thread.

 

[soil margin]

Complete speculation here but it makes sense to me that if different cannabinoids are metabolized/absorbed at different rates, then for example, flowers with a decent amount of CBN or CBD might take longer to kick in than flowers with some THC-V mixed in or just pure THC. Some property like that might explain why some bud seems to be faster acting than other similar quality stuff.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Anyone remember that thing where when you eat a mango before toking, you get way higher than normal? Apparently because of a certain terpene in mangos that lets THC cross the blood/brain barrier more easily ?
I've tried and cannot say it didn't work, but we would also have gotten very high anyways, with or without mango.
I would definitely dare to phantasise that whatever breakdown occurs during the cure, it does make weed come on slower and last longer...
And then aside from the breakdown caused by time and temperature, there's also the one caused by microbial life. There's a thread on here somewhere where they're discussing microorganisms potentially producing cannabinoids as some byproduct of their metabolism if I got it right !
And on the other hand:
With some indicas cured for a "normal" amount of time/ several weeks, you can sometimes feel the high coming on after the first puff !

CC

 

[Bumbatar]

Its myrcene that allows thc to cross the blood brain barrier more quickly. you have to eat or juice raw mango because the heat from flash pasteurization of store bought juice evaporates and destroys many terpenes. I hear you must consume it 40min before you smoke.

 

[coldcanna]

Interesting and makes sense that the terpenes go first... smell can leave but you still get high...
Do they actually degrade or just "evaporate "

CC

Basically both. Molecules breaking down form new compounds and you would have some by-products that are gasses; we burp the jars to balance humidity, give fresh oxygen to the enzymes, and to remove the off-gasses that result from enzymatic activity. So not evaporating like a puddle disappearing in the sunlight per-se, but there are gases in some sense of the word.

It has been my experience that cured but newer weed has a much better smell and is closer to the original plant. I'm talking buds that are about 6-8 weeks from harvest and have been properly dried and cured. Product that has been aging for 6+ months the smell really drops off. Not saying it won't get you high, but the consumer is really missing out on what the plant was like.

As far as flavor, we know that the breakdown of chlorophyl via the enzyme chlorophylase adds to a smoother smoke, and at the same time caretenoids degrade and this adds to the flavonoid profile. So older weed is a better smoke in regards to being smooth, in the tobacco industry slow-cured tobacco is considered the highest grade.

So really in the end it is subjective. I prefer newer bud because it is a better representation of the plant form.

 

[Gry]

Never received a potentiating effect from any mangos, but do like the enzymes from Ataulfo's, aka champagne or Manila Honey.
Have a lot of issues with nausea, and they are very soothing in effect.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Complete speculation here but it makes sense to me that if different cannabinoids are metabolized/absorbed at different rates, then for example, flowers with a decent amount of CBN or CBD might take longer to kick in than flowers with some THC-V mixed in or just pure THC. Some property like that might explain why some bud seems to be faster acting than other similar quality stuff.

Either that, or terpenes influence the uptake/metabolism AND effect of cannabinoids.
I had a good smoke on this Jack Herer that I've been growing last night. It is from last August and the part i was smoking on was jar cured and is still continuing to cure at roughly 17°C and 60%rh.
I haven't touched in a while as I was living the luxurious life of having a personal stash grown by myself to choose from. It already was a creeper 2 months ago and it is even more of a creeper now than I imagined it would be.
It got to a point where I literally smoked too much without realising it and then getting these onsets of panic, that come and go in waves. Nothing too bad, but unpleasant enough to mention...
And when I woke up this morning I was still stoned.

Maybe all of this, slow onset, long duration, intense effect and on the other side of the spectrum that would be quick onset, short duration... can be pinpointed to certain terpenese or combinations of terpenes and cannabinoids ?
The Jack Herer is heavy with frankincense, almost too much of it.

Sadly no testing available where I live as I'm in the UK...
Maybe send samples to spain to get the tested ?

I guess in the end we need to combine/ verify anecdotal evidence with test results ideally ?

CC

 

[Phaeton]

Health problems caused a change in my gardening. I went from high yield clones to store bought seeds.
Cloning was simple in terms of product, the pheno chosen cloned and grew quite rapidly and had a strong high. Plants in the high UVB area were creeper compared to the plants without UVB.

Now each plant is unique. After drying a bud is smoked in the morning by two of us. It is classed as immediate high or creeper. The full range of effects is eventually covered, but some of the hits can be felt in the eyes before the smoke even leaves the lungs. Others take a few minutes.
For our tests one hit is taken then ten minutes later a second hit is taken. Once we are stoned it is impossible to analyze further buds. I like being stoned all day, but judgement is definitely impaired.