Family member brainwashed by Landmark Forum/Education

[tech1234]

I just got a call from my sister telling me she just got out of a 2 day seminar and "its going to change her life" She literally sounded like a zombie

She gave them the entirety of her savings account ($1800) for "future learning" She is a very sweet women but not he brightest. Just the kind of person Landmark likes to pray on...

In case you guys aren't up on what Landmark is... it's a money scheme bordering on a cult (some say definitely a cult). And they run a very hard cover-up campaign. Suing anyone who speaks up as well as controlling crowd source sites like Wikipedia with thousands of devoted zombies

Its funny when other dummies drink the cool-aid but sad when you know one of them

 

[Stoner4Life]

back in the early '90s a friend invited me to a 'very exciting' telecommunications seminar, it was bullshit, all based upon bringing in more people 'under' you, and them buying the $200 start up kit, and in turn they too would be required to bring in more new sheep to be shorn, and so on, typical Amway pyramid kind of networking.

sure as shit I wasn't buying into the hyped up sales pitch, my friend kept annoyingly nudging me when he knew the main bullshit artist was gonna come up with some outlandish claims to his new earnings (10K monthly) etc.

it was a bitter cold night, and as we warmed up the car the main bullshitter himself walked out of the hotel and loaded his gear into a 12 or 13 year old rust bucket Oldsmobile.

I pointed that out to my friend, he looked none too pleased.

I found out later that the whole point in that exercise/seminar was for the sheep who'd already signed up to bring in their friend most likely to buy in. it was a case where yet another Minnesotan had somehow misjudged the NYer amongst them, I swear to you, back east I'd already heard every crooked pitch written.......

 

[St. Phatty]

a re-spin of Jack Rosenberg/ Werner Erhard's "est".

 

[WelderDan]

Well, it is going to change her life, just not in the way she thinks.

If she's lucky, she will only get burned for $1800 and learn a valuable lesson.

You can bet those people will be back with their hands out, putting pressure on her to take more seminars.

The sad thing about these scams is that they can get away with it because they have lobbied the government to regulate this shit (or not regulate it) in a way that lets them do it with impunity.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Eh don't worry bout it. People who do Landmark are usually pumped up to change their lives for a few weeks and then slowly fall back into their normal routine. I've known many. The only ones who might manage to keep it up are the ones who sign up for the weekly meetings. Just be happy she didn't sign up for Scientology. Then she'd be fucked.

 

[tech1234]

Thanks for listening guys. I've been slowly trying to de-program her but its difficult because they pre-prep the zombies telling them not to listen to people like me (rational people) by telling them we are just negative or lost and they are now above anyone talking like that. Smart on there part... Hopefully shes snaps out of this quickly and doesn't sign up for the weekly brainwashing

 

[delta9nxs]

keep her surrounded by good friends, good weed, and good music and she'll return to real life soon enough.

 

[aridbud]

Sorry to hear of your sister's misfortune. Even though supposedly they run a tight ship, she might consider bringing it to the attention of her state's attorney general....for exposure if nothing else.

Indeed they are scam artists and prey on the weak....what cults/scammers do. Sounds like their brainwashing has a strong hold on her.

Sometimes Life brings us expensive lessons to learn.

 

[theJointedOne]

I did a landmark course for a week a few years ago. Pretty cool, actually, and nothing like a "cult" IMO. The one I attended helped me to communicate, and be honest with others and myself.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

I did a weekend course too like 10 yrs ago that my brother gave me as a gift. They have an interesting philosophy but I didn't appreciate the hard sell on the expensive 2nd level course. Let's be honest, these people want to make money. I'm all for expanding awareness and trying out new ways of looking at life, but cult is a good description of what this is, though not a very dangerous one. They don't do very much to keep you if you decide to leave.

Scientology on the other hand is very dangerous and much more sophisticated. I did a course there also about 10 yrs ago just to see what the whole controversy was about. Those are some slick motherfuckers who will try to weave their way into your life so it's harder to leave, and if you do they are relentless in persuing you to get you back. Phonecalls every week for a year, then every month or 3, constant mail... shit I still get mail from those fuckers to this day. Landmark? Usually people just kinda are pumped up for a few weeks and then fall out of it. The positive thing is that these people are trying to improve their lives and that's something to admire and respect.

 

[tech1234]

I did a weekend course too like 10 yrs ago that my brother gave me as a gift. They have an interesting philosophy but I didn't appreciate the hard sell on the expensive 2nd level course. Let's be honest, these people want to make money. I'm all for expanding awareness and trying out new ways of looking at life, but cult is a good description of what this is, though not a very dangerous one. They don't do very much to keep you if you decide to leave.

/\ this is spot on

I agree that what they preach can be positive stuff, but remember this doctrine is not theirs in totality. Any good therapist will tell you to let go of the past and forgive your loved ones. And the rest is stolen from Buddhism,Christianity and a little self help manta sprinkled with capitalism. I think a lot of the evil is in how it is purposely engineered it to seem innocuous. Furthermore any group that does not tolerate dissent has never turned out to be something positive. And the amount of man power they put into controlling media, internet discussion and lobbying is very troubling.

Basically its a good way to cheat struggling/confused people out of their hard earned money and time while providing just enough positive change in there life that they will stick around long enough to wring every last dollar and "enrollment" out of them so that they can then cheat the subsequent victims. Hell if my moral standards were lower I would start my own and get rich too.

Another worry some people have is that it would be very easy for these leaders to flip the switch and turn there many brainwashed and loyal followers from the less scary "organization" they are now into something much more nefarious

 

[rolandomota]

This reminds me of the show American Greed but those people are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars. Their just handing over all their money to later get 5 percent if that once the jig is up. But here her money is gone for good. Just watch out man people are greedy and don't give a fuck about you only your cash And they won't be remorseful

 

[BudToaster]

i did the Forum about 5 years ago ... wasn't as good/effective as Lifespring (a gentler est) which i did in two sessions in 1980 (which convinced gf that we should get pregnant, so definitely a good thing - kid turned out great!) ... However, i got kicked out of the second session of the Forum (got a refund)- i really got under the skin of the main seminar leader dude ... still not sure why, but really glad - the Forum blows.

 

[Green Squall]

I just got a call from my sister telling me she just got out of a 2 day seminar and "its going to change her life" She literally sounded like a zombie

She gave them the entirety of her savings account ($1800) for "future learning" She is a very sweet women but not he brightest. Just the kind of person Landmark likes to pray on...

In case you guys aren't up on what Landmark is... it's a money scheme bordering on a cult (some say definitely a cult). And they run a very hard cover-up campaign. Suing anyone who speaks up as well as controlling crowd source sites like Wikipedia with thousands of devoted zombies

Its funny when other dummies drink the cool-aid but sad when you know one of them

Honestly dude, a family intervention is in order. She just gave away all of her money. Landmark is just as bad as those Nigerian scam emails some people fall for.

 

[Stoner4Life]

my apologies, I'd never heard of this Landmark cult before this thread, at first I thought you were referring to some sort of 'networking' where they sell you either goods or services & you in turn prospect for other sheep.......

good luck with restoring your sisters sanity bro, giving up $1800 w/a promise of nothing but a chance to spend more money later for another church chat shows or proves a certain vulnerability in her.

Can someone else attain authority over her income if she begins to fail @ paying rent or utility bills? Drinking the 'Kool-Aid' as mentioned several times above is exactly the level of how badly some people become addicted to this shit.

 

[tech1234]

Honestly dude, a family intervention is in order. She just gave away all of her money. Landmark is just as bad as those Nigerian scam emails some people fall for.

Yup a family intervention is what accidentally happened today. Seems to have worked. She said she woke up today feeling like the past 2 days at the seminar were like a dream. She then told us some of the stories of them tearing people down and throwing anyone out who objected. Also this seminar had some of the classics that I have heard before... no windows, no clock, tight seating, rigid/long time schedule and public shaming if you didn't make the required phone calls on break.

Tomorrow will tell, hopefully we can retrieve some or all of the money. She seems really shocked about what happened, she says one minute she was going to a self improvement seminar at the insistance of a friend and the next minute she was signing contracts and all her money to them. I talked to here hours after the seminar... it was like she was not my sister, some weird analog with her voice... scary stuff

 

[bombadil.360]

Damn. They may be using some sprays to drug people while they are locked in those rooms. The do that in the "revolutionary bolivarian" circles in Venezuela. My friend got a blood test and tested positive for cocaine, she never even tried cocaine in her life. This was around 2003 btw.

 

[BudToaster]

no need for drugging the people. and there is definite value in this type of self-improvement course. the money demand is used to get more commitment to a useful result - some people get motivated by having a couple K on the line.

some of the follow on seminars are very cheap, $30 or so. and they are committed to providing support after the seminar is over - Forum had weekly (can't remember for sure the repeat rate) rah-rah meetings at no charge.

it is based on ontology, not Buddhism or Christianity, so less depth than a dogmatic religious approach.

Wikipedia has some good articles on Landmark Forum, est, Lifespring, and other large group awareness training programs.

There are also business oriented training sessions to help manager be more effective. It is about learning to relate to other people.

My first Lifespring session was a breakthrough for this tight-assed, emotionally retarded hippie. it took 4.5 days, but on the graduation night, i had such an emotional release that it still shocks and amazes me about what is possible - i was higher than i have ever been on any drug (not that well drug experienced, actually) and the high lasted 3 days. i felt like i was bouncing off the walls.

The second Lifespring session brought me to ground .... somewhat of a bummer, but useful.

 

[bombadil.360]

It may not be the case with these seminars or whatever they are, but spraying cocaine mixtures in the air indoors while you are implanting ideologies in people's heads is used a lot by the Venezuelan government.

You get a dopamine kick while at the place, and make a "positive" connection to the ideology and the people around you.

My friend that tested herself is (well, was) a journalist and was going to these 'bolivarian circles' to write a research on how was the propaganda being so successfully being adopted.

Needless to say, once she published her research, it did not pass a long time before "burglars" broke into her home and beat the living shit out of her. She now lives in Norway.

But yes, my example is way too extreme to compare to what the OP is talking about. It made me think though as he described his sister as feeling as if in a dream while in that place, and signed contracts out of the blue...a good dopamine kick can make you do all that in the midst of the elation produced.

 

[Weird]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-forests-Colombia-ELIMINATES-free-will.html


The most dangerous drug in the world: 'Devil's Breath' chemical from Colombia can block free will, wipe memory and even kill

• Scopolamine often blown into faces of victims or added to drinks
• Within minutes, victims are like 'zombies' - coherent, but with no free will
• Some victims report emptying bank accounts to robbers or helping them pillage own house
• Drug is made from borrachero tree, which is common in Colombia