Extreme DWC Challenge: BLEACH in the res?

[Hydro-Soil]

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess I wasn't clear. This is outside. Ambient daytime temps are mid-90's most year-round. I'm managing to hold the res temps to mid-80's with reflective insulation, exotic dance, etc.

No problem. Get some large ice-chests, fit them with E&F fittings and fill them with lavarock. Your nute temps can stay 80F, who cares. The roots of your ladies in that lava-rock will be cool enough to grow though and that's what you want. It's a swamp cooler effect and it's awesome. Plants tolerate much better heat that way.


I'm definitely interested in the results of your grow and the quality of the end smoke. Keep it up

 

[Balazar]

That is an excellent idea hydro-soil. It's very simple and requires no power or constant work.

 

[JefersonAirplan]

you can always add an aquarium filter for that.

 

[giblets]

Also how do you get your bubbles in the buckets?

Balazar, I got the idea from a portable bait live-well I saw at Walmart. (3:00am and ripped )It had a battery-operated air pump and an airstone.

For ~100 bucks or less I can get a solar charger that will power the whole bucket completely off-grid.

I will check into the steri-pen. Thanks for that tip. If it's l.e.d., the current draw might be low enough to power with the solar cell.
Thanks for your suggestions!

I do a lot of camping and for sterilizing water in a pinch, someone could use 1 part bleach to 100 parts water. It might affect the pH, but I think bleach might have valid applications in the garden

BillFarthing, that was another of the things that got me wondering about this. I'm using a way lower concentration than that--less than 1 part bleach to 5,000 parts water. So, one-fiftieth of 1:100. There was no measurable change to pH even at several times that concentration.

I also think this could work, but I do not know where the dilution level would become lethal, because that is a reality.

Haps, you're right, and when it becomes lethal, it's all of a sudden. I'm getting zeroed in on it; so far I've figured this much out:

Within 12 hours of mixing up nute solution with nasty well water, I had something multiplying in there. The res smelled like a wet dog. Not real disgusting, but getting stronger and the airstone was starting to feel slippery.

I added .5ml (about 12-14 drops) to the res, which is ~2.7 gal. After 12 more hours, no change. But the plant still seemed fine, too. (It's in an 8" netpot filled with coco; roots were then just beginning to emerge.)

So, I added another .5 ml. Within an hour or two the new roots started dissolving and growth had ceased. The doggy smell was fading, replaced by a slight bleach odor.

I remixed a new res and brought the bleach doseage back down to 16 drops for the entire 2.7 gal res. Within 12 hours new roots were growing normally again, and the doggy smell did not return. The plant was also growing again.

So--
10 drops per gallon is too strong.
5 drops per gallon was okay on the plant, but wasn't strong enough to stop an infection that had gained a foothold.

3 days later I added another 12 drops of bleach when I topped up the res, with no problem. So the part I'm working on now is: how long does the bleach stay "active" in the res where it's dangerous to re-dose?

Get some large ice-chests, fit them with E&F fittings and fill them with lavarock. Your nute temps can stay 80F, who cares. The roots of your ladies in that lava-rock will be cool enough to grow though and that's what you want. It's a swamp cooler effect and it's awesome. Plants tolerate much better heat that way.

Hydro-Soil, do you have any pics or diagrams of this kind of setup? I'm not sure how you mean to use the fittings. (I'm an old dirt guy and just am finishing my *first* coco plants. This test is preparation to move on into DWC.) That evaporative cooling trick is slick. Definitely want to see what you are talking about.

I'm definitely interested in the results of your grow and the quality of the end smoke. Keep it up

It doesn't seem like potency'd be affected provided the plants stay normally healthy...(?) Taste may be an issue, though... No way to tell for awhile....


Thanks for all the replies and help. So far, so good.

~giblets

 

[flashog]

the thing about the pool is silly......we swim in the water, not drink it and rely on it for grow and advancment......so please, strike that from the record

Now don't be silly... most of the world uses chlorine directly in the drinking water. If the concentration is low enough it won't hurt you nor will you die from accidentally swallowing some water in the pool. Only recently did we stop using chlorine in the drinking water here in Denmark.

 

[slowandeasy]

I know you are doing this as an experiment, and that is cool...but if you have a hundred bucks to spend on a solar panel, why dont you just put that money towards a real grow? Or you could buy some good water from wal-mart, it is like 20 cents a gallon. Obviously you have a reason for doing what you are doing, just seems like a big risk to be spending hundreds of dollars on. Seems like you have to be outdoors? If not, you could use that 100 bucks as a nice start on a little indoor project, where you can control the environment? Just an idea.

BTW, how old and big are your plants? Have they started budding? Have a feeling you might want to FLUSH really well before you smoke some. Like someone else said, bleach can be poison and even if you are diluting it...there is such thing as build up in hydro. Good luck, wish you well

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Hydro-Soil, do you have any pics or diagrams of this kind of setup? I'm not sure how you mean to use the fittings. (I'm an old dirt guy and just am finishing my *first* coco plants. This test is preparation to move on into DWC.) That evaporative cooling trick is slick. Definitely want to see what you are talking about.

Look at any E&F tray.

One fitting is flush with the bottom of the tray. The hose from the bottom of this connection goes to your pump. Make sure water flows BACK through your pump when you shut it off.

The other fitting has a riser on it. Water won't enter it until the nutrient level in the cooler has reached the overflow level. This determines the level of the water in the cooler when the pump is on.

Standard E&F fittings should have threads long enough to work on any camping cooler, you just need to drill the holes.


If you can cut the cooler lid into pieces so it fits back together around the plants, you can use foam disks around the stems and it will keep leaves/dirt/dust/bugs/crap out of the lavarock.

Sorry I don't have any pics but you should be able to get a good idea by reading up on E&F setups. Stay Safe!

 

[Lazyman]

The airstone will bubble the chlorine out of it just like it does tap water. Get some Physan20 instead of bleach, it will still kill everything but doesn't smell and will probably be mroe effective. Good thread on it under "Got slime?"

 

[giblets]

The airstone will bubble the chlorine out of it just like it does tap water.

That's what I figure. Just trying to figure out how fast that'll happen in a bubble bucket (which is a closed system except for what's transpired by the plant, and what wicks away through the coco in the netpot). Got any idea how long the bleach will stay potent? (looks like 3-4 days at least, so far.)

Get some Physan20 instead of bleach, it will still kill everything but doesn't smell and will probably be mroe effective. Good thread on it under "Got slime?" ]

Lazyman, I can't find that thread, and I think it would help me. Is it in hydroponics?

But, check it out--I'm just using a few drops of bleach. Doesn't smell at all. The res has a "fresh vegetable" smell to it, almost like radishes.

That Physan 20 looks like it kills everything in its path, and I don't know what that chemical is. I know it's expensive, but how does it work better than bleach? (Seems like there are some environmental warnings with it, too.)

Thanks, Hermie

 

[bendoslendo]

It's more expensive than bleach but at the dose youd be using (less than 3ml per 25gal) its actually quite cheap.

I killed off everything I had with Physan 20 at the bottle recommended doses. The plants look fine for a day or so than completely wilt and die within a few days. Prolly shouldn't have been in a rush and checked online first.

Thread hes talking about is stickied here. It's buried deep in the thread, toward the end. Look for posts by richyrich

 

[giblets]

I killed off everything I had with Physan 20 at the bottle recommended doses. The plants look fine for a day or so than completely wilt and die within a few days.

Holy crap, bendoslendo! My mouth dropped open when I read that. What the hell happened? I'm so sorry... Jeez...


There's a thread in the infirmary about slime: "Strange slime buildup on roots." Is that the one you guys are talking about?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259

 

[Lazyman]

Nah it's not expensive, I got two bottles of it (i think 250Ml each?) for $22, but if using it in a hydro system it's not supposed to be run for more than 1 day. I used .1ml per gallon for a week with no ill effects though.

 

[BillFarthing]

What is the pH of 1:100 bleach:water after nutrients in your res? I would love to see this, as this is the short-term tolerance for people. I wonder if this could be a low-dose long-term thing for plants to prevent anaerobic and other non-benes in the res.

 

[giblets]

What is the pH of 1:100 bleach:water after nutrients in your res? I would love to see this, as this is the short-term tolerance for people. I wonder if this could be a low-dose long-term thing for plants to prevent anaerobic and other non-benes in the res.

Bill, you gotta check that 1:100 figure. I think it's way too strong. I found a couple more "official" resources that are giving 8 drops per gallon (add another 8 drops if it doesn't smell a bit of chlorine) as the "standard" emergency disinfection protocol for human drinking water. 1:100 is recommended for disinfection of hard surfaces.

Remember, 10 drops per gallon was too strong (IMO) for the plants. That's just a few (5-10) ppm if my math is right. A 1:100 dilution is gonna be ~500ppm. It tasted nasty (spit it out) and red-lined my pool tester. But, you asked an interesting question, so here's what I did:

• Started with .99 gallon of hard, salty-ass well water: pH 7.8, TDS: 720 ppm.

• Added 37.85ml Clorox (1/100th gallon). (Bleach is supposed to be 12.6 pH, this bottle measured pH 11.95.)

• Result: 1 Gallon bleachy water: pH 9.1, 1100 ppm.

Now, if you'd like to pursue this experiment further, just know:

I would NOT try to lower the pH of any concentrated bleach solution using any kind of acid (like pH down). That reaction can release chlorine gas, irritating and poisonous. If swimming-pool water is too strong for the plants, I see no reason to work
with anything stronger.

I also wouldn't bother trying to "sterilize" a nutrient solution with bleach, because the bleach is going to try to oxidize your nutrients, organic or otherwise. The bleach and the nutes will work to "use each other up," probably just precipitating various salts out of the solution. I'm adding the bleach to the res separately, diluted with distilled water.

But yes, I have used bleach successfully now as a "shock" treatment (some damage to plant, though) and as a preventive.

I think I'm gonna just wait, now, and see if anything else tries to grow in the res. Find out how long the "disinfection" effect lasts. (My res temps are 82-85F) And if I get tired of waiting I may inoculate the res with some of this disgusting well water, just so I have an infection to fight.

 

[giblets]

Nah it's not expensive, I got two bottles of it (i think 250Ml each?) for $22, but if using it in a hydro system it's not supposed to be run for more than 1 day. I used .1ml per gallon for a week with no ill effects though.

Lazyman, you talking about Physan 20, yes?

Please tell me the instructions cause I haven't seen seen that "1 day" thing--just what's on the product label. Do you have to flush the res the next day, then?

.1 (1/10th) ml is only like 2 drops. Is that seriously all you needed to use? (Or is that decimal point not supposed to be there? Is it one milliliter per gallon, maybe?)

Thanks a lot, giblets