Buzzsmirk!
Active member
SKELETOR said:
LOL "skeletor" when i read or see "challenger" in the field i just shake my head and hope UL did their job right when approving that junk!!
BUZZ!
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extension cord extremely hot.. burning outlet!???
- Thread starter Frozenguy
- Start date
LOL "skeletor" when i read or see "challenger" in the field i just shake my head and hope UL did their job right when approving that junk!!
BUZZ!
G
Guest
listen to this man he understands
Buzzsmirk! said:I read this entire thread and "frozenguy" is operating on "borrowed time".
the cord end being hot at the recepticle is the result of a "low resistance open " the brass blades on your cord arent getting a tight connection in your
recepticle. this is almost always a recipe for heat if your load is considerable.
the thread reads like "frozenguy" is using extension cords all over his place to run his grow in one place.
the cure for this is to run a service panel to the grow area and distribute the
load from that new panel. I am goin to assume "frozenguy" is not an electrician and NEEDS to hire an electrician to do this for him. the complex side is he already has a grow goin on in his place, this fact complicates the
matter cuzz the electrician doent need or (wants) to know about the grow.
a good pluaseable cover story is in order.
with a grow that large (3600watts) goin on the electrical shortcomings should have been dealt with from the beginning.
I am in the "trade" and "frozenguy" is very lucky to have not had a fire by now IMHO. extension cords runnin all over the house is also a reason to worry. that hopt recep should be changed out reagrdless of the other fixes i suggested. there is also a power dist product on the market from a lighting manufacturer that is a distribution box for a grow of his size that runs of the homes range/stove outlet. If he gets that he just need to plug it in and run it into his grow room/area problem(s) SOLVED!!! its gonna run hiam about 500 to 1000 bucks to buy the unit though. small price in the big picture of it all.
BUZZ!
G
Guest
Challenger is the absolute trash of the loadcenter community,squareD is the best cutler hammer is good also
Buzzsmirk!
Active member
SKELETOR said:
LOL "challenger" is like the redheaded stepchild of the load center community
i think it means one must be mentally "challenged" to specify/choose that product line for your installations. and yes i agree "square D" is among the top offerings in our market place. However the GE, siemens are right there with "Square D" line with regards to quality.
BUZZ!
G
Guest
Your 15A wall circuit will not handle 3 600w. You need to split the load onto a different circuit. You also will not get 1875w out of that cord. That is peak load, do not put more than 'x' through this cord or it will set on fire load. I would say stay lower than 12A or upto 12amps. That is 1440w if my memory serves, but maybe not, I'm too lazy and its too early to do the math, but here it is. 120v x 12a = power(w). You want to run at 80% for heat load on the wire for safe operation limits. You can push the cord to much higher loads, but as heat builds, wire degrades.
G
Guest
Check the neutral wire... the wires on the back side of the outlet maybe be loose.
G
Guest
it amazes me he hasn't changed the receptacle yet
chodo said:
Buzzsmirk!
Active member
"frozenguy" NEEDS THIS:
www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/detail.php?id=04_INST&prod=1665
it is THE CURE for his ills
BUZZ!
www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/detail.php?id=04_INST&prod=1665
it is THE CURE for his ills
BUZZ!
G
Guest
Thats a nice unit but I dont understand why they fused their 120V circuit at 10a?I would think its 12 wire that they're using being safe is one thing,having to reset breakers for no good reason is another
Buzzsmirk!
Active member
my quess is to provide max amperage to the lighting circuits.
10 amps is plenty to work with if you aint runnin any HIDs
IMHO, but i don't use this unit i saw one at "alan's" LOL
BUZZ!
10 amps is plenty to work with if you aint runnin any HIDs
IMHO, but i don't use this unit i saw one at "alan's" LOL
BUZZ!
^^I think they did it to prevent someone from possibly filling it with 8k of lights and trying to run some high draw devices off the 120v side that might cause problems with the main breaker tripping.
I'm still not clear how that thing can safely run 8K off a 4 pole 20a...seems like it violates the 80% usage safety margin that most electricians go by since it'd be running right at the max to keep 8k going...
I'm still not clear how that thing can safely run 8K off a 4 pole 20a...seems like it violates the 80% usage safety margin that most electricians go by since it'd be running right at the max to keep 8k going...
Buzzsmirk! said:
thanks for all your he;p buddy.. and btw guys, that receptacle that was acting like that hasn't been used in the last day or two.. i've been going with 4 lights in each room
but i understand saftey soooo...
now that i feel anxoius that my shitty electrical box is gonna catch on fire, they are junk, but they shouldn't catch on fire right?? my challenger box??
and what do i replace challenger breakers with?? challenger breakers?? or can i get some better breakers that WILL fit challenger??
i am getting my electrical set upt now. i've run it all through conduit to my grow.. i have the outlets setup.. 20ampers gonna get 17amps on it.. i'm just gonna have to do it that way.. that is what, 85% of the capacity?? but there will be no extension cords.. =) so what can i put in the place of a challnger breaker or where can i find a challenger breaker?
what if i put in a 20amp receptecal, and just continued to run 11amps on a shorter cord.. will that be ok? that is 11amps out of a 20amp socket.. so if anything, the breaker will pop.. and thats ok right? but it wont pop.. cause i'm under the capaciy by like 25%.
Buzzsmirk!
Active member
"challenger" gear though disliked by the electrical tradesmen who know better. is not "dangerous" if applied within the code's bounderies. my experiences w/challeger in the field are finding lots and lots of bad breakers, this brand doesent seem to last very long before shit breaks but we are still talking "years" of life my friend. try your yellowpages and call a few supply houses if the home depot folks cannot get it.
beware of using disimilar brands for your panel box. If u have challenger gear then only use challenger same advice goes for any brand u find installed its the professional way to conduct business and limit your liability(ies).
breakers trip/pop" on HEAT NOT AMPS as they are labeled its when u load a breaker circuit past 80% that the breaker itself starts to get HOT and this heat is what trips it.
thats why u shouldnt put continuous loads at or near the breaker's capacity the heat causes "nuisance tripping" .
BUZZ!
beware of using disimilar brands for your panel box. If u have challenger gear then only use challenger same advice goes for any brand u find installed its the professional way to conduct business and limit your liability(ies).
breakers trip/pop" on HEAT NOT AMPS as they are labeled its when u load a breaker circuit past 80% that the breaker itself starts to get HOT and this heat is what trips it.
thats why u shouldnt put continuous loads at or near the breaker's capacity the heat causes "nuisance tripping" .
BUZZ!
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G
Guest
I wouldnt use a panel with an aluminum bus either,thats just me.Man there is no frickin way you can run 8 1K fixtures on a 20A circuit,I dont care if its 240V or 2400V loljust kidding.I have a dentist appt. right now but when I get back I'm lookin real good at that unit,there has to be something else running 3K on a 20A 12 wire circuit at 240V is really pushing it.I ran 2 1K fixtures and an 800W combo fixture for a couple years on a 12 wire 20A circuit with zero problems.Then I switched my sun system 800W for another vertizontal 1K fixture and everything was cool...for awhile.After a few weeks the breaker began tripping on startup.It became such a nusaince I repulled 10 AWG replacing the 12AXG and stuck a 25A breaker on it.Zero problems since then.So you tell me how you can run 8 on a 20A circuit?Gotta go but I'll find out soon!
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Buzzsmirk!
Active member
LET us DO da MATH!!!
LET us DO da MATH!!!
OK "SKULLETOR" go get your "numb on"!!!
lesseehere!!! we gotz us a 50 amp two pole service w/ a neuteral too!!! yippee!!
lesseehere one 1k ballast is about 8 and a half amps at 115 vac BUT if u configure for
220vac u drop that to 4 1/4 amps (load is ballanced now too)
eight times 4.25 = 34 amps on each of the two legs w/no load using the neuteral yet!
take 5amps 120 vac off both sides usin the neuteral for the imbalance they are within their safety margin or maxed out at 39 amps per pole or at just a little under 80%.
it works out the same if it were all 120 vac as the loads are split across the two poles but the neuteral might burn!!!!
the receps in the photo look like 220 to muah!!
a "20 amp quad" breaker must mean 2 20 amp 220 vac two pole circuits
the math proves it can work safely!!!!
my stoner theory math could be wrong!!!! but i doubt it!!
BUZZ!
LET us DO da MATH!!!
OK "SKULLETOR" go get your "numb on"!!!
lesseehere!!! we gotz us a 50 amp two pole service w/ a neuteral too!!! yippee!!
lesseehere one 1k ballast is about 8 and a half amps at 115 vac BUT if u configure for
220vac u drop that to 4 1/4 amps (load is ballanced now too)
eight times 4.25 = 34 amps on each of the two legs w/no load using the neuteral yet!
take 5amps 120 vac off both sides usin the neuteral for the imbalance they are within their safety margin or maxed out at 39 amps per pole or at just a little under 80%.
it works out the same if it were all 120 vac as the loads are split across the two poles but the neuteral might burn!!!!
the receps in the photo look like 220 to muah!!
a "20 amp quad" breaker must mean 2 20 amp 220 vac two pole circuits
the math proves it can work safely!!!!
my stoner theory math could be wrong!!!! but i doubt it!!
BUZZ!
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Hmmm...so the startup load for a short period isn't a big deal? I was under the impression that 1ks pulled around 4.6-4.7a @ 240v (37a+)...hence my apprehension of using 8k off a 40a/240v feed.
Buzzsmirk!
Active member
MTF-Sandman said:
well mista "sandman" i am just generalizin ohms law in my head no calculator.
i figured 1000 divided by current (8.5) brings you into the 110 to 120 vac neighborhood. i have no 1000s in my set up. hence no "nameplates" to look at
i use six 400s in glassed/cooled super suns in my bloom area.
BUZZ!
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G
Guest
Well thats ot running 8K on a 20A circuit huh?Where did I get that from I gotta go back I didnt make it up!
G
Guest
I have a Challenger box. I put in GE 30A double pole breaker. The electric supply house said I'd be fine. I have 4x1000w room going on my third year. I used the proper size wire and made extra sure all connections were TIGHT 
Buzzsmirk!
Active member
ic_user said:I have a Challenger box. I put in GE 30A double pole breaker. The electric supply house said I'd be fine. I have 4x1000w room going on my third year. I used the proper size wire and made extra sure all connections were TIGHT
yes the GEs will fit the challenger bus bars. but as a contractor I do not wish to take on the liabilities (potential) of somthing bad happening and the
investigators see that i was mixing up brands in the box would automatically
put me/my firm on the top of the "hit list" and i would literally have to PROVE my innocence to the fire inspector(s).
yes they will fit!!! but you are on your own if something happened involving the circuit your workin on. by mixing brands you have NO recourse on either manufacturer , GE OR CHALLENGER.
i guess for the homeowner its an acceptable "fix" for a person in that business its a whole other perspective!!! insurance is bad enough already!!
BUZZ!
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