Experts: Smart grid poses privacy risks

[Lazyman]

It's cool MSG, you don't have to agree with me on everything, but I have done my homework on solar and wind power, and done the math, and wind turned out to be far more expensive, impractical, and inefficient for any large-scale electrical needs. If you can prove me wrong I'll apologize and put it in my signature for a month, how's that?

Look up what it costs to generate even 100KWH a month with wind, you'll laugh your ass off at what is involved (a couple dozen 12' turbines on 90' foot towers, batteries, inverters) and then see if your county would let you even put up one of these, I bet they won't!

Environmental impact studies often have to be done on even small wind farms, and they cost tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Guest]

I agree with everything you say, just the opinion of practicality and efficiency are always going be subjective. Great insight LM. Many thanks

 

[xmobotx]

i've seen some new transformers that look pretty "smart" in my local area

regarding wind - why do you hear nothing of savonius rotors anymore?

 

[Lazyman]

There have been a few new wind turbine designs in Popular Mechanics lately, (including a cool one that pops up out of the roof like an umbrella when it gets windy!) but even the best "home" units generate about 60 watts of juice going full speed. For a $5K windmill that's just not anywhere near good enough, at least in my opinion. You could get a much more efficient PV panel or 4 with a small inverter for that price.

 

[Skip]

There have been a few new wind turbine designs in Popular Mechanics lately, (including a cool one that pops up out of the roof like an umbrella when it gets windy!) but even the best "home" units generate about 60 watts of juice going full speed. For a $5K windmill that's just not anywhere near good enough, at least in my opinion. You could get a much more efficient PV panel or 4 with a small inverter for that price.

What irony!
We have to take sunlight, capture its electrical energy, only to turn it again into light indoors. We lose a lot of energy along the way, it's so inefficient. A greenhouse would be way more efficient.

Save Energy, grow in a greenhouse! (if it's practical of course).

 

[Lazyman]

Yeah I used to think a greenhouse was the answer too, but greenhouses tend to make people REALLY nosey (what's in there? Can I see?) and humidity is very hard to overcome, and you can't really use carbon filters because there's too much air exchange/humidity.

In the middle of nowhere yeah, a GH is good, but otherwise, more liabilities than they're worth. A big greenhouse full of late flowering girls would smell for miles.

 

[Randybobandy]

"In the middle of nowhere yeah, a GH is good, but otherwise, more liabilities than they're worth. A big greenhouse full of late flowering girls would smell for miles."

carbon filters work in greanhouses too!

 

[Centrum]

Smart devices that communicate via IP Its your choice to buy these products!

Sharing your information with neighbors or anyone for that matter is breaking privacy laws.

If it came down to it and all this is true and we all have to say goodbye to our last crop. I'm sure someone will create a bypass panel that scrambles your activity and only allows for recording of usage.

 

[SpasticGramps]

It's cool MSG, you don't have to agree with me on everything, but I have done my homework on solar and wind power, and done the math, and wind turned out to be far more expensive, impractical, and inefficient for any large-scale electrical needs. If you can prove me wrong I'll apologize and put it in my signature for a month, how's that?

Look up what it costs to generate even 100KWH a month with wind, you'll laugh your ass off at what is involved (a couple dozen 12' turbines on 90' foot towers, batteries, inverters) and then see if your county would let you even put up one of these, I bet they won't!

Environmental impact studies often have to be done on even small wind farms, and they cost tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This is kind off the top of my head. One of those massive windmills that you see in the west Texas desert windfarm's costs ~$2.5mil to make. I'm not sure of their energy output, but you can drill a nice oil and gas well for ~$2.5-3.5mil. Multi-miliion cubes of gas and 200+/day oil is not uncommon. Some last for quite a while. That $2.5mil is going to give you a lot more energy / dollar. Than the windmill will. I don't think they are economically viable right now.

If we can rely on fossils fuels for another 100-200 years then nanotechnology will revolutionize solar collecting technology and we'll be able to run off the sun. Consveratiion is going to be the name of the game until then IMO.

 

[Lazyman]

I read a couple weeks ago that enough solar energy hits the earth in an HOUR to power the planet for a year, we just don't know how to harness it yet.

 

[Centrum]

damn it Skip!
http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/?q=node/7177

That article sucks ass!

Greenhouses FTW! With gas powered Generators! And Solar panels of the grid!
Start stocking up!

 

[SpasticGramps]

I read a couple weeks ago that enough solar energy hits the earth in an HOUR to power the planet for a year, we just don't know how to harness it yet.

Once we harness the sun. We'll be good. Lots of free energy there. That's why I'm not horribly alarmed. It has to do with the way the solar panels are configured on a molecular level. As it is now, we can only capture about 12% of the suns power. Once we can arrange the solar panels atom by atom in a perfect grid we should be able to capture 83% of the rays. We are good for a long time after that.

Nanotechnology is going to revolutionize energy and every other industry. It's going to make the industrial revolution look small in comparison. IMO.

 

[baan]

You'll just have to get two rotations of flower going for 24 hour usage.

Hey, it's more pot. Right haha

Also, I'm researching wind power right now. For the cost of an automobile I can get a wind turbine that generates like 10 kw of electricity on 20mph wind, but fuck that, I don't have that kind of money right now... I did find one that can generate >600w at the same speed, that would cover the size of the grow and it's less than $3,000. I'm really considering that, because for $5000 (batteries, wiring etc) I could cover the cost of my grow and never have to worry about electricity or nosy pigs comming around because of electricity ever again.

My county also doesn't care if you put one up, beacuse the pole is as tall as most trees so you wouldn't even need a light for aircraft. I would need no license, permit, whatever according to them. I have a spot on my house that I could put it, the wind comes up the hill over the trees and hits my roof, then the roof pushes it up to a point where I could put the thing and I would get free juice for the grow.

 

[Lazyman]

How many hours a month do you have 20mph winds? I'd get a handheld windspeed meter and do some recording, it's probably not as much as you think. I live in a fairly breezy spot too, but it's usually 3-5mph, 10-15 mph gusts.

 

[whatissixbynine]

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[BonsaiBud]

I've got 2 options for ya people afraid of smart meters:

1) get a used Toyota Prius and the kit to mod it out for extra battery power. Keep that sucker parked 12 hours a day or at least leave the spare battery pack sitting in your garage hooked up to the charger.

2) Get a single PV panel and stick it on your roof. If you rent then just put it in a window.
Get a 10 KW inverter, a bank of batteries and a huge DC power source. Now use a timer to randomly de-couple from the grid and run your show from the inverter for 3 to 20 minutes. The PV pannel is just for show; if you hadn't figured it out yet.
This option may run $10k-$20k if you use the good parts. You might be able to get a hold of a DC-AC motor generator and use that to isolate your grow. That would save at a lot of money.

Yet another option: the plats don't need 100% light during their "day". You could have the HIDs trip off now and then leaving some actinic T5 flouro to pick up the slack. It is natural like a cloud passing over the sun. You will get skipped over for the person running all-guns-blazing in a 12 on / 12 off pattern. I like this option best since it will only cost you an extra timer and perhaps an extra lamp or two.

 

[Skip]

Some good ideas there Bonsai!

What LEO will probably do is review the most striking reports that match a specified pattern most closely, high electrical usage + grow light pattern. That would cut the # down to a very small percentage of users, perhaps just one or two percent. And in a local area, that might mean just a few dozen homes.

A drive-by might give more indicators like homes where it appears no one is living, they could interview neighbors, etc. If they get enough circumstantial evidence, they might get a search warrant.

I don't think they can target businesses via smart meters due to the range of possible appliances/machines they might be using. However if they do see a "grow" pattern, they could probably get a building inspector to pay a visit.

 

[Guest]

Have it not start to make sense? Sure it not the best, but get the fuck off grid. Not even grid tie, OFF grid. It is THEY grid, not yous. They make changes, yous MUST comply. Is un natural agreement from topics I wish not to discuss. Basic in any deal is equal leverage for both side. Power co. have all leverage, even to the point where alternate mean of energy is all most out of question due to cost and permit. Is power struggle now, no pun intend hehe! The longer stay moot on this point, the longer they continue to take advantage. The more people who are afford the luxary to switch to alternate energy and the prices will shift equally over time. Make it more affordable and efficient for all. Demand will balance out. Only not if they are left unquestioned, after all who pay they bills?

"Yes please change this old meter to a new smart meter, you the boss." "I pay you some euro while you at it, every month how about it?" In old day, if someone is pay every month. They keep they mouth shut, stop pay to THEM. Start invest in youself, you future. Unless when you pay each month, they understand it as private. Unless not, think about it. Do not look good.

If one wish to continue on with grid, then if might steal a word from Skip hehe! It would "behoove" for thems to petetionn local area for privacy clause with the addition of new technology. Privacy of one home, this imo shall also include peeking at electric use or patterns.

Inside peoples have no rights to know about how much power is consume or what time, date, type of appliance. Is getting more and more, allowed slavery. Harsh words, but fitting. Especial with the alternate use for the equipments in the first place. How thems can have equipment (lamps/ballast/ect) sale legal at market if the use of said equipment is ground for special investigation? Is not make sense, is not fair; is not our rules though! THEY GRID, THEY RULES. Fuck that. For all thems know it is tomato or exotic tropical variety garden. Or organic fruit and veggie for the family. Perhaps non chemical treated tobacco for those who smoke?

It just not fair, canna just a plant. What it ever do beside bring some laughter with friends, make a meal taste extra yummy, ease the pain of those suffer, produce great textiles, provide essential nutrients (seeds) with near perfect amino acid profile. Perhaps it due to canna able to provide all the above for cheaper and with more sustainability. No room for greed in that equation. Last but not least give a great hobby to enjoy. A hobby that give the much needed time to sit back and take a time out. Tending and caring, learning about myself in the process.

I tend to ramble, but fuck it. Crikey, just not fair.

 

[BonsaiBud]

MSG: Yes, this thread got off on the wrong track.

"Peak Metering" has been around for years. Large industry gets lower rates if they draw max load at night. Example: casting metal and melting scrap with induction furnace. I worked in one small foundry where the aluminum was melted over night as that took a long time and a lot of energy. Aluminum work was done in fall and spring when load on the grid is light. Induction furnace for iron and non-ferrous takes only a couple of hours and can be done when power the load on the grid is light and power is cheap.

An old-school way to do it: House has a meter that reads the real-time price in $/kwh. It also reads your kw use at that moment. Hot summer afternoon and everyone running air-conditioners: power may be 3X as expensive. You the consumer can decide if you want to run heavy-load appliance at that time.

I would like that and a few tier-ed circuits that cut off when cost of power doubles, triples, or quadruples. The ultimate goal is to save money for both consumer and power company.

Suppose it is a very hot summer night and my garden woke up at 9 pm. The temperature is 35 C and power is very expensive. Fine. My plants will have make due with a 400w MH and 200w T5. If a cool breeze comes along and the all the air conditioners shut off then power gets cheap and my "surplus grid power" circuit flips on and the 1k lights up.

That is how I want it. Give me an indoor live reading of the cost of power and let me set some tiered circuits so that I decide what device cuts off or on depending on cost of power. This helps both the energy stations and the consumer. It helps to balance load. I call it "opt-in" peak metering.