End of the Rainbow, The Leprechaun's Pot O Gold

[Rocketman64]

Hey Riddle, prior to the addition of the UVB, were you still obtaining decent yields with what you were using? I grow with HO T5's as well and have been satisfied with my results however, I'm pretty convinced I could do better with a different configuration of spectrums.

I was under the impression the Arcadia UVB's needed to be extremely close to make a difference with trich production. That's just my take on what I've read (all of which must be true because I found it right here on the interwebs).

Obviously your results speak for themselves and I'm not questioning your methods, just looking to get an accurate answer on the use of the additional UVB. Do you feel it was a legitimate expense for your operation?
I'm really liking some of the newer generation of lighting that's been popping up. In particular, the full spectrum Blue Max lamps:

http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/t5_aquarium_711_prd1.htm

I've been using the normal, off-the-shelf HO T5's in a mix of 3500k and 6500k but am considering switching to something with a little wider spectrum. Have you ever looked at spectral graphs from any of the lamps you're using or is it not something worth the concern?
The only reason I'm curious is because there are so many bulbs that claim to be 'full spectrum' but when it comes right down to it, the wavelengths we need for growing are usually pretty weak even with the bulbs sold as 'grow' lamps.
Your thoughts?

 

[Riddleme]

Hey Riddle, prior to the addition of the UVB, were you still obtaining decent yields with what you were using? I grow with HO T5's as well and have been satisfied with my results however, I'm pretty convinced I could do better with a different configuration of spectrums.

I was under the impression the Arcadia UVB's needed to be extremely close to make a difference with trich production. That's just my take on what I've read (all of which must be true because I found it right here on the interwebs).

Obviously your results speak for themselves and I'm not questioning your methods, just looking to get an accurate answer on the use of the additional UVB. Do you feel it was a legitimate expense for your operation?
I'm really liking some of the newer generation of lighting that's been popping up. In particular, the full spectrum Blue Max lamps:

http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/t5_aquarium_711_prd1.htm

I've been using the normal, off-the-shelf HO T5's in a mix of 3500k and 6500k but am considering switching to something with a little wider spectrum. Have you ever looked at spectral graphs from any of the lamps you're using or is it not something worth the concern?
The only reason I'm curious is because there are so many bulbs that claim to be 'full spectrum' but when it comes right down to it, the wavelengths we need for growing are usually pretty weak even with the bulbs sold as 'grow' lamps.
Your thoughts?

Yes, I was getting good yields before the UV bulbs, but I don't grow for yield and I rarely weigh anything. IMO using UV bulbs for tric production is the wrong way to use em and it is prolly true that to do so involves having the bulbs closer. My experience is that the UV bulbs (the True Actinics) alter the cannabinoid profile and the Deep Blue (the Coral Plus) increase tric production.

It was not until I added the UV bulbs that I saw early amber, so IMO they were a huge addition. With the addition of the Coral bulbs I saw increased tric production so for me the cost was justified and with the ATI bulbs being $32 each there is a bit of cost LOL I also need to point out that IMO the sulfur is also necessary to obtain these results !!! as the sulfur feeds the trics.

You can see the spectral graphs on the ATI bulbs here,
http://www.atinorthamerica.com/bulbs.php
note how the Corals pick up where the Actinics leave off extending the spectrum.

In this current grow I have changed the ratio of deep blue to red to see what the differences are compared to the last grow and seeing amber after 4 weeks is happenin so not unhappy thus far.

Flowering with T5's is about quality, if a grower is concerned with yield it is prolly not the best idea to use T5's. I never tell growers they should switch simply because I have met very few growers that understand light the way I do and most would prolly see a huge decrease in yield without that understanding (though I do try to teach it)

 

[Riddleme]

Good Mornin Everyone !!!

We have 2 that have finished 5 weeks, 2 that have finished 4 weeks, 1 has finished 3 weeks and 5 have finished 2 weeks, gotta love a staggered garden at harvest time

gonna focus 1st pics on the main cola of The Beast, first pic was taken on Jan 1st, second pic taken this morning

 

[Riddleme]

Some CTF bud shots

 

[Riddleme]

The Beast showin her amber

 

[Riddleme]

The Namaste showing amber after only 4 weeks

 

[Riddleme]

The TE's buddin after 2 weeks

 

[Riddleme]

And Finally, we have babies

 

[Rocketman64]

Yes, I was getting good yields before the UV bulbs, but I don't grow for yield and I rarely weigh anything. IMO using UV bulbs for tric production is the wrong way to use em and it is prolly true that to do so involves having the bulbs closer. My experience is that the UV bulbs (the True Actinics) alter the cannabinoid profile and the Deep Blue (the Coral Plus) increase tric production.

It was not until I added the UV bulbs that I saw early amber, so IMO they were a huge addition. With the addition of the Coral bulbs I saw increased tric production so for me the cost was justified and with the ATI bulbs being $32 each there is a bit of cost LOL I also need to point out that IMO the sulfur is also necessary to obtain these results !!! as the sulfur feeds the trics.

You can see the spectral graphs on the ATI bulbs here,

http://www.atinorthamerica.com/bulbs.php
note how the Corals pick up where the Actinics leave off extending the spectrum.

In this current grow I have changed the ratio of deep blue to red to see what the differences are compared to the last grow and seeing amber after 4 weeks is happenin so not unhappy thus far.

Flowering with T5's is about quality, if a grower is concerned with yield it is prolly not the best idea to use T5's. I never tell growers they should switch simply because I have met very few growers that understand light the way I do and most would prolly see a huge decrease in yield without that understanding (though I do try to teach it)

Exactly the answers I was after! You, my friend should be commended.
I actually phrased my question wrong regarding 'yield'. I really don't care about yield either, definitely looking for quality over quantity.

I've done so much research about proper spectrums for indoor growing that my head is going to explode. Thankfully, I have a decent science education so I'm able to digest the info but getting information from the field is far more important to me. I always kind of felt filling in the missing or lower levels of particular wavelengths was extremely important but I never knew what the end results would prove.

My next interest will be the other end of the spectrum. Finding the sweet spot for the reds could be equally as important here. In your case, looking for the early amber seems to be nailed down for you. I'm curious about how filling in the spectrum from 600 to 700nm in addition to the complete blue end of the spectrum effects the grow and the amber production.

Research tells me peak absorption points for chlorophyll A occur at 439nm and 667nm, and occur at 469nm and 642nm for chlorophyll B. Chlorophylls A & B along with carotenoids supply over 95% of the energy necessary for photosynthesis. That being said, a lot of the bulbs available show very weak outputs in those wavelengths. You've filled in the blue wavelengths perfectly with the addition of the UVB's, any idea where you stand in the reds with your current setup?

 

[Riddleme]

Exactly the answers I was after! You, my friend should be commended.
I actually phrased my question wrong regarding 'yield'. I really don't care about yield either, definitely looking for quality over quantity.

I've done so much research about proper spectrums for indoor growing that my head is going to explode. Thankfully, I have a decent science education so I'm able to digest the info but getting information from the field is far more important to me. I always kind of felt filling in the missing or lower levels of particular wavelengths was extremely important but I never knew what the end results would prove.

My next interest will be the other end of the spectrum. Finding the sweet spot for the reds could be equally as important here. In your case, looking for the early amber seems to be nailed down for you. I'm curious about how filling in the spectrum from 600 to 700nm in addition to the complete blue end of the spectrum effects the grow and the amber production.

Research tells me peak absorption points for chlorophyll A occur at 439nm and 667nm, and occur at 469nm and 642nm for chlorophyll B. Chlorophylls A & B along with carotenoids supply over 95% of the energy necessary for photosynthesis. That being said, a lot of the bulbs available show very weak outputs in those wavelengths. You've filled in the blue wavelengths perfectly with the addition of the UVB's, any idea where you stand in the reds with your current setup?

As you can see in the graphs for the Corals they have a bit of red, the bulb I use for red is a GE 4100K you can see the graph for it in this pdf,,,,
http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/ind/images/GE_lfl_lamps_t5_wm_ho_sell_sheet_tcm288-37367.pdf

I have yet to find a graph for the PlantMax 6500K ?

As for goin up into the Far Red range, I did that experiment several years ago, you do get faster/earlier flowering but you also get more stretch/stem elongation. Since I am gettin ready to grow a few land races, I am trying to avoid the Far Red LOL

Here is a really good vid on light studies done by Cornell U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4hR_QVIyg

IMO it should be a must watch for growers

 

[Alpha Phase]

looking great Riddle, any reccomendation on t5 bulbs strictly for veg? I have a small dwc veg tote that I veg clones in until they are well rooted for transplant and am thinking of getting a small 2x2 6 bulb t5 set up but not sure which bulbs to use for it?

 

[Riddleme]

looking great Riddle, any reccomendation on t5 bulbs strictly for veg? I have a small dwc veg tote that I veg clones in until they are well rooted for transplant and am thinking of getting a small 2x2 6 bulb t5 set up but not sure which bulbs to use for it?

I use the same bulbs in veg as in flower, it is an 8 bulb light with 1 True Actinic, 1 GE 4100K, 2 Coral Plus and 4 Plantmax 6500K

 

[Alpha Phase]

Alright cool, thanks bro! I can't wait to try it out Are they easy to find the bulbs like at home depot or would it be easier to find them online? I'll be getting them by the start of february, stoked to be upgrading from my t8's

 

[Riddleme]

Alright cool, thanks bro! I can't wait to try it out Are they easy to find the bulbs like at home depot or would it be easier to find them online? I'll be getting them by the start of february, stoked to be upgrading from my t8's

I get the ATI bulbs at a local Aquarium store, The plantmax bulbs are available at a local nursery and the GE bulbs I get from a warehouse lighting store. You can get all of em online though

 

[Rocketman64]

Thanks for the vid, Riddle. That was a truly exceptional example of presenting a study in a manner most people can understand.

So now I get your reasoning for not including any far red into the grow. I could see how it might be useful for someone growing in a Scrog/Sog scenario but not for what you're doing here. I guess I'll just have to figure out how much red is too much or not enough.

I'm looking forward to adding a little UVB to my next micro-grow as I continue to experiment. I've actually been sitting on some really nice, fat seeds from bag weed I had in the 70's/80's era. I've been guarding them with my life for so long, it's going to seem strange to actually put them to use. I was hoping to wait until I really had a handle on my environment before taking the risk. I only have a few of these so they're kind of special to me.

All this talk of good Sativa has me ready to take the plunge with these seeds. Don't think I can wait a whole lot longer, gotta find an early amber!

 

[HerBnGorE(illa)]

Riddle me, I've recently been looking into some led lights for my growspace and it seems they all have a high ratio of red to blue light. Then I see ones for coral that are focused on the blue/white spectrums with no red diodes.

....so my first question is have u ever used or considered using led lighting? Second, would you use the coral (blue/white) ones or would you go with the standard "high red, low blue" fixtures?

 

[HerBnGorE(illa)]

....ohh and any other thoughts you might have on leds would be appreciated!

Thanks again for the great thread btw. Love seeing different peoples approaches to garden mastery.

 

[Riddleme]

Riddle me, I've recently been looking into some led lights for my growspace and it seems they all have a high ratio of red to blue light. Then I see ones for coral that are focused on the blue/white spectrums with no red diodes.

....so my first question is have u ever used or considered using led lighting? Second, would you use the coral (blue/white) ones or would you go with the standard "high red, low blue" fixtures?

First let me say, I tend to do everything in an unconventional way LOL My experiments with LED happened a few years ago, right before I made the switch to T5's. My day job is as an electronics tech and we get catalogs from suppliers. In one of those catalogs (MCM Electronics) they sell stuff for bands, amps, mics, and stage lighting. One day I was looking thru the new catalog and saw a 50 watt LED stage spot light, it was designed to throw a 12 foot spot from a height of 25 feet, it had 3 color 3 watt LEDs and used magnifying lenses to create the spot. It also had a digital control interface that allowed you to dial in whatever color you wanted. It cost $259, I bought one (still have it) and played with it.

I was growing with 2 400 watt CMH bulbs at the time and Phillips had just announced that they were discontinuing the bulb, so I was looking for alternatives that still allowed me the better spectrum.

This little light was pure awesome, I mounted it to the rafters in my basement which put it 5 feet above the canopy and at that distance it made a 4 foot spot on the floor. I dialed it for an all white light (all colors full on) and I grew a plant from seed under it.

The only reason that I am not currently using them is cost, after the experiment I determined that I would need 5 of the spots and 2 wall washers to properly cover my garden area, that was gonna be 5 X $259 + 2 X $369 my T5 set up for veg & flower was $750 and as it turns out I have been very happy with my choice as I was able to adjust things spectrum wise with ease, I also like the dispersion of light from the T5's better.

So that is the story and here are the catalog pics of those lights,,

 

[Riddleme]

Here are pics of it in my basement veg room ,,,,

 

[Riddleme]

A few side by side comparisons with my 400 watt CMH's done with seedlings, the LED light blew the CMH away LOL
in the 2 side by side pics CMH on the left, LED on the right,,,