EC/PPM guidelines for coco?

[coxnox]

They look good so just put your rez ph higher(6.5 would be a good start) and yu will be fine...

 

[maimunji]

I will try this cox

 

[AltarNation]

Great info, Snow... was just wondering if you still have that nutrient calculator excel file you included with it originally, and might you re-upload it somewhere? Your megaupload link is doa now.

Hey Garden Bug. I have what you're looking for.

I don't know why, but for whatever reason people just don't keep track of this stuff (or they refuse to share it). I asked for similar information a time ago and got "run out of town."

I speak in uS/cm. It is a more accurate representation of EC, and if you cut the value in half that would be the Hanna ppm measurement. Also, for beginners in coco, I think that the Botanicare CNS 17 coco/soil system of Grow/Bloom/Ripe is damn near perfect. It's about $10 a quart, $25 a gallon, it has everything you'll need, and it works. Their instructions are a little high ml/gallon wise, but you can always cut them back to about 75% suggested strength and go from there. IMO, there is not an easier and less expensive complete system than CNS 17 Coco/Soil. The addition of a Potassium Silicate (like Pro-Tekt) can be useful as a pH up for this usually acidic system, rather than using GH Potassium Bicarbonate pH+.

For the record, my tap water comes in around 100uS/cm (about 50ppm) so it is pretty clean to begin with. For most growers, if you do not have access to clean water (like if you live in a major metropolitan area with water treatment) then I recommend running Reverse Osmosis filtered water to ensure contaminants (like sodium) are not unbalancing your system.

These nutrient levels are what I consider to be average ballpark. Every strain, and phenotype, is going to have its own "perfect level." These suggestions should be fine for most strains, but you might be able to push more nutrients during weeks 3 and 4 of veg and 4 and 5 of flowering than I suggest. You'll have to determine that as a gardener when you can see what the plants will actually require.

Seedling Stage:
400 to 500 uS/cm
Focus on Cal-Mag, and run a balanced system. You don't want to push just Nitrogen, Phosphorus will help with root development and potassium will balance out the cation exchange. Aim for a 1-1-1 kind of system, the most prevalent element in use at this time should be Calcium

Vegetative Stage:
Week 1: 600uS/cm Maintain the balanced ratio 1-1-1
Week 2: 800uS/cm Increase Nitrogen levels. 2-1-1
Week 3: 1000uS/cm Increase Nitrogen levels, watch for Magnesium shortages. 3-1-1
Week 4: 1200uS/cm Increase Potassium levels 3-1-2

Transition to flowering:
For 2 waterings you'll want to use a more balanced nutrient system and to decrease your Calcium supplementation considerably. If you were using something like GH Micro, or Botanicare Cal-Mag plus at 5ml in veg, this would be the time to cut it back to more like 2ml. Often, after 3-4 weeks in the media the coco achieves the element buffer (or bank) and pushing the continuously high levels of calcium will interrupt the exchange of Magnesium and Potassium during early flowering.

Flowering Stage:
Stretch wk1: 1200uS/cm Maintain vegetative NPK, decreasing Ca, increasing Su+Mag
Stretch wk2: 1200uS/cm Decrease N, increase PK slightly, close to a 3-2-3.
Flower wk3: 1350uS/cm Decrease N more, closer to 2-2-3
Flower wk4: 1450uS/cm Increase Mag and potassium.
Flower wk5: 1600uS/cm Begin PK boosting. 1-2-3
Swell wk6: 1800uS/cm Phosphorus push 1-5-4
Swell wk7: 1600uS/cm cont'd phosphorus push 1-6-4
Ripen wk8: 1400uS/cm very low nitrogen and calcium. 100us/CM extra Epsom Salt and increased K. 1-2-3 again.
Ripen wk9: <500uS/cm flushing. I like to use Fulvic acid for a few days.

Some other things that might help out. I don't like to grow in large containers of coco, I just think it is unnecessary. 8L of coco is plenty. Also, I prefer to amend my coco with aeration material like perlite and GrowStones. I think Roots Organics Coco mix is a fantastic media that you can use much less nutrients on (until the 4th week in the media) and I like to mix a little Botanicare CocoGro in with their mixture because it is a little heavy in perlite when unamended.

When daily waterings start (usually in the 3rd week of flowering for me, but it will vary given planter size and transplant date, etc) I begin to offset my feedings with 1/2 strength waterings. Every other, or sometimes every 2 full strength feedings I follow up with a lower strength watering at a balanced ratio. This will keep buildup a non-issue.

Also, when feeding at higher strength, and especially around the transition phase to flowering, I find that it is VERY important that I maintain at the minimum 33% run off (3L in, 1L out). Measure your runoff EC to determine if you are washing out a lot of buildup. If I use a 1000uS/cm solution and if I get anything more than 1300uS/cm in the runoff then I know that the media is a little over-saturated and this is washing out. In this case I simply continue to rinse the media with the 1000uS/cm solution until the runoff measures within the range I am looking for. Usually, a 1:1 runoff ratio (4L in, 2L out) is all it takes to keep any buildup completely out of the equation.

Here's a nutrient calculator I have put together using a spreadsheet (I made it in openoffice and converted to .xls)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EGSYJSW8

Just enter the required information and you are on your way. You will want to measure your ppm levels compared to the predictions and compensate for deviances. Liquid Karma tests about 9x higher than predicted, while Hydroplex tests about 90% of predicted. This calculator requires personalization, but it is setup to predict up to 10 nutrients at a time in a solution. I have mine dialed perfectly when running:
Canna Coco A
Canna Coco B
Cal-Mag Plus
Liquid Karma
Pro-Tekt
CNS 17 Ripe
Hydroplex
Big Bud
Nirvana
Snow Storm Ultra
Bud Candy

This is where these levels, my 2 years of experience, and this calculator have taken me (40 days from 12/12, sorry about the white balance, not burned just glare)

View Image

 

[Aspenou812]

If you're running Coco in a hydroponic setup, the pH should be 5.8 - 6.2 however is is best if you start low say 5.5 and let them drift upwards to about 6.4 this will allow the plants to pull everything out of you're solution they need. You're plants will pull different elements out of the solution as the pH changes. Of coarse this works best with a DTW system and a reservoir.

 

[The.Cook]

Usually somewhere between 1.2 and 1.8 it's fine.

Bewere that (beside strain, age, light and so on) it also depends on your straight water ec and also on your nutes.

With Advanced Hydroponic / General hydroponics I found that 1.2 to 1.5 is good to me with almost any strain, while with canna coco (which right now I can say with no doubt are the best nutes I've ever used so far) the sweet spot it's a little bit higher at about 1.6/1.8 from seed to flush.

Hope it helps

Bye

Tc

 

[Encrypt]

Usually somewhere between 1.2 and 1.8 it's fine.<br />
<br />
Bewere that (beside strain, age, light and so on) it also depends on your straight water ec and also on your nutes.<br />
<br />
With Advanced Hydroponic / General hydroponics I found that 1.2 to 1.5 is good to me with almost any strain, while with canna coco (which right now I can say with no doubt are the best nutes I've ever used so far) the sweet spot it's a little bit higher at about 1.6/1.8 from seed to flush.<br />
<br />
Hope it helps<br />
<br />
Bye<br />
<br />
Tc

<br />
<br />



Interesting The.Cook, can you explain why canna coco are the best nutrients for you? Everytime I use canna coco A+B the plants show nitrogen deficiency and in flowering stage there is the need to add PK otherwise there's a loose on yield.


Do you compensate the ratios with additives? Or just upping the concentrations will make the nutrients available in the correct levels? Even when the ratios are supposedly not correct for coco coir?

 

[The.Cook]

<br />
<br />



Interesting The.Cook, can you explain why canna coco are the best nutrients for you? Everytime I use canna coco A+B the plants show nitrogen deficiency and in flowering stage there is the need to add PK otherwise there's a loose on yield.


Do you compensate the ratios with additives? Or just upping the concentrations will make the nutrients available in the correct levels? Even when the ratios are supposedly not correct for coco coir?

Well, for me it's exactly the opposite: I've been using 3 part nutes in coco for quite a long time, with very good results indeed, but always with some minor issue. Also, so many variables to play with (ratio, final ec, additives and so on) made it impossible ti really understand from time to time what was causing that.

Dont get me wrong, I'm really talking about minor issues, in fact I never worried about that too much.

Than I heard someone here on icmag (noreasons maybe) talking the same and how those issues disappeared to him when he tried canna a+b

I tought I had to give it a try, so I made a complete grow with just canna a+b, 40ml+40ml every 10lt water from start to finish. No root stimulator, no pk booster, no nothing.

Simply had the best results ever. Plants were pure green all the time, no definciencies, nothing, just green healty leaves. That really impressed me, so good results with such a low effort!

Harvest was 2 weeks ago and it was great too.

Maybe it was just a like one, but I will defenitely found it out the next time

Only drawback? Two entire bottles for 4 plants under 250/400w, but in the end it's still cheaper than all those products I was using I guess, not to mention 15 euros in an entire grow it's nothing at all.

bye

Tc

 

[bmp420gti]

I run 1.2 in veg and step up as needed from the plant, flowering around 1.6 or so. ive found strains like bubba kush will take like 1.5 in veg and step up to 1.8 or 1.9 in flower.

I also find if i run anything under a 1.1 from clone they get deficient fast, house and garden nutrients.

 

[maimunji]

I run 1.2 in veg and step up as needed from the plant, flowering around 1.6 or so. ive found strains like bubba kush will take like 1.5 in veg and step up to 1.8 or 1.9 in flower.

I also find if i run anything under a 1.1 from clone they get deficient fast, house and garden nutrients.

What kind of def. Cal mag nitrogen?

 

[GoldenSyrup]

My background E.C is 0.6.

From seedling/cutting stage to being potted up to the 3ltr pot, they get 1.2 ec (time elapsed is usually around 2 weeks) then they get 1.4 e.c until I put them in the 10L pots (1 week) , and they go into the big tent under the 1860w of ceramic and I up the E.C to 1.5. (7 - 14 days)

When I flip the lights to flower the E.C is upped to 1.6 ec, and then from week 2 or 3 of flower I top out at 1.8 ec and float it here until the 7th week of flower where I drop to 1.6 ec, the next week I drop again to 1.4 ec (week 8), then the next week to 1.2 ec of flushing solution, and then 4 - 7 days plain water (week 9 on a 9 week var, I extend week 6 for longer flowering plants). The maximum E.C (1.8) varies between 1.6 - 1.8 depending on var.


As The.Cook says, this varies depending on nutrient and water type. On an water E.C of less than 0.5 I will top the E.C between 1.4 - 1.6 depending on the var.

IMO 1.8 is as high as anyone should be going in coir, I have yet to try cannabis grown at an E.C beyond 1.8 ec (via any method) that didn't smoke like it was dredged out of a pond.

 

[bmp420gti]

What kind of def. Cal mag nitrogen?

Strains seem to go mg deficient really easy under 1.2 in my experience anyway, using RO water. Supposedly H&G has a standalone mg additive coming this year too.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

This is a little aged now but the guy who fried his plants did 3 horrible things and all have been stated but not why on the pest control shit.

Citric Acid can cause phytoxicity. This was what was in his Green Clean. Green cleaner also has high oil content which no doubt helped close all the stomata.

Pyrethrins can also cause phytoxicity. This is what was in his Mighty Wash.

Those two things alone in excess completely fried his shit. The battery acid fuckup with pH was enough alone to kill everything lol ;\ I hate to laugh but holy shit he messed up 3 ways badly. Hope he got things going. I also learned from his mistakes as it refreshed my memory.

This is still a thread with very good value to anyone growing coco.