Early Flowering Problem

[f-e]

If he does this, they will flower instantly upon being put outside, even if he did it around the solstice there would be too much darkness for them to not flower unless he used lights to keep them in veg. If he keeps them closer to 20/4 or imo 18/6 in veg and then ease them into it, thats how you have a healthy transition.

I'm not seeing it. If there is reason to flower outside, then nothing you do inside will change that.
Look at indoors, we just go 12/12 there is no slowly moving timers. There is grow and there is bloom and anything between them isn't helpful.

I have maybe 20 years of outdoor growing, with up to 7 sites a year. 24h indoors, then out on the 23rd. Non have flowered upon putting them outdoors.

If perhaps they did, then at such hours the transition would be very slow. Too slow to matter. You would see signs of sex not bud. By which time the night would be short. In the UK.

I did take someone that liked pics a few times, but on the whole I'm not a diary person

 

[f-e]

they are only £1 each in Poundland

eBay is getting hard work. They take 12.8% plus a 30p fee. That's £1.10 Before royal mail take £4 postage because you can't afford a buyer saying it didn't come. £5.10 plus the lamp at a pound, £6.10 leaving 13p profit for all the running around. That's 1.5% profit.
Lets say he lifts the lamp and posts it at £3 They still make just £2

This topic is close to me. I want to bring in 18w 3600 lumen lamps but buying a pallet I can't get them to you for under £50 on 10 because no planes are flying. All our stuff it coming by boat and they are charging what they like as they are full. I can DHL the things here about as cheap sea shipping, as they have planes specifically for parcels, not just space on passenger planes.

 

[40degsouth]

That’s really interesting f-e,
what are the daylight hours, using sun rise and sunset as daylight hours, at your latitude?? I’d imagine the incremental increase in daylight each day must be up around five minutes??
l think transition, from indoors to outdoors, has a lot to do with light intensity and spectrums, as fuutang’s pointing out, to light intensity and temperatures outside.
Thoughts anyone??
Cheers,
40.

 

[Crooked8]

I'm not seeing it. If there is reason to flower outside, then nothing you do inside will change that.
Look at indoors, we just go 12/12 there is no slowly moving timers. There is grow and there is bloom and anything between them isn't helpful.

I have maybe 20 years of outdoor growing, with up to 7 sites a year. 24h indoors, then out on the 23rd. Non have flowered upon putting them outdoors.

If perhaps they did, then at such hours the transition would be very slow. Too slow to matter. You would see signs of sex not bud. By which time the night would be short. In the UK.

I did take someone that liked pics a few times, but on the whole I'm not a diary person

If were talking about what we have for experience, I've been running in and outdoor for 19 years myself. If you take a plant that is under 24hrs of light and put it right outside, most strains will transition into flower pretty quickly. I have loads of colleagues from many farms who will back up transitioning veg to outdoor in a systematic fashion so they actually VEG a bit outside. If you haven't done it, thats fine, but if you want to see your plants grow to their maximum height and girth they need actual veg time in the early season until the solstice transition. I respect your professional opinion and experience, however, saying that transitioning slow is “not going to matter” is simply not entertaining the possibility of a better way. If you do what I suggested then they flower with the proper timing. When i start seeds or take clones for a veg intended to put out, i start at 18/6 for first two-3 weeks, then week 3 or 4 down to 16/8 and then 15/9 for a week or two before i put them out and they stay vegging for at least another couple more weeks without showing at all. If you haven't tried this, i highly recommend it!

 

[f-e]

If were talking about what we have for experience, I've been running in and outdoor for 19 years myself. If you take a plant that is under 24hrs of light and put it right outside, most strains will transition into flower pretty quickly. I have loads of colleagues from many farms who will back up transitioning veg to outdoor in a systematic fashion so they actually VEG a bit outside. If you haven't done it, thats fine, but if you want to see your plants grow to their maximum height and girth they need actual veg time in the early season until the solstice transition. I respect your professional opinion and experience, however, saying that transitioning slow is “not going to matter” is simply not entertaining the possibility of a better way. If you do what I suggested then they flower with the proper timing. When i start seeds or take clones for a veg intended to put out, i start at 18/6 for first two-3 weeks, then week 3 or 4 down to 16/8 and then 15/9 for a week or two before i put them out and they stay vegging for at least another couple more weeks without showing at all. If you haven't tried this, i highly recommend it!

That's very interesting, but my plants do flower with the proper timing. I really don't expect any more from them, and I have seen many claims.

While I can't say I'm convinced, another 420 community in the UK, a big one you can guess, believe a plant seeing longer days each day, won't care how short they are. I was outcast for suggesting an early season in a conservatory might be worth looking at. That's quite a firm belief.

40degsouth It's 16 hours light on the 16th of May. A week before I plant out.

 

[Crooked8]

That's very interesting, but my plants do flower with the proper timing. I really don't expect any more from them, and I have seen many claims.

While I can't say I'm convinced, another 420 community in the UK, a big one you can guess, believe a plant seeing longer days each day, won't care how short they are. I was outcast for suggesting an early season in a conservatory might be worth looking at. That's quite a firm belief.

40degsouth It's 16 hours light on the 16th of May. A week before I plant out.

To each their own my friend. I wish you the best in all your grows!

 

[40degsouth]

Well f-e, there’s the missing piece of the puzzle. Daylight hours here don’t even reach 16 hours, in fact at the solstice maximum daylight length is only 15hrs 21min.
Ive experimented with different clones in the past but this year focused on the Black Dog; she can only go out after the first of December here, this year anyway. It was unseasonaly cold and wet for the summer, the worst l can remember and l have a hypothesis that temperature and light intensity play a bigger role than we may understand in transitioning plants.
I’ve started clones as early as the first of November here, that haven’t flowered and veged really well in a more “normal” season that came out from under two, two foot long flouros on 24/7. Maybe there’s a missing piece to the puzzle, maybe red spectrum light or an increase in photo receptors???
As a side note l read in Dankwolf’s thread, last year l think, that his timing strategy involves transitioning with a certain amount of stretch which translates into bigger plants going into veg without the burden of re-veg on his plants.....really interesting stuff. Maybe he’s about and might explain the process better because l didn’t manage to do it this year.
Cheers,
40.

 

[fuutang]

Maybe there’s a missing piece to the puzzle, maybe red spectrum light or an increase in photo receptors???

Light-wavelengths give plants instructions, like: flower, produce more resin and ripen.

12/12 is just a foolproof way gardeners use to induce flowering. It's not the only instructions the plant can recieve. But it is a foolproof! This means 12/12 may be varied, but tends to be the gardeners standard flowering tool.

Wikipedia define this:
Light or visible light is electromagnetic radiation within the portion of the electromagnetic spectrum that can be perceived by the human eye.[SUP][1][/SUP] Visible light is usually defined as having wavelengths in the range of 400–700 nm, between the infrared (with longer wavelengths) and the ultraviolet (with shorter wavelengths).[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] This wavelength means a frequency range of roughly 430–750 terahertz (THz).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light


Ave it

 

[f-e]

A Canadian Uni, when talking in blanket terms, use 9.5 hour nights as the turning point.

I see a good difference between woodland clearings and hill tops. While very light sensitive, they still don't wake that early. I have often been working on sites, watching them get up a while after I arrived. Perhaps there is also a connection to temperature, I couldn't say. They need to almost see the sun though. Which full woodland can delay a while. I see a weeks difference between such sites. I think that early morning exposure is very important.

The larger pic I put up, it taken facing east, and the sun goes round to the south, the right. The plants along the right hard row flower and finish sooner. They just don't wake as early, though I can't say I have watch on that site. While others, I have.

This is real time you can loose based on position.

14.5 hours light... it seems reasonable.

 

[49th]

Culled all the males today but still not sure if I should or even need to top/prune/pinch any of the flowering tops to stop them flowering and attempt to reveg.

I'm not that into topping for outdoor, especially when growing a big plant as I've had them split open before quite commonly. I much prefer just bending the main stem and then further bending or pruning branches that get too high.

 

[49th]

Could I say use tweezers to pinch out all the calyx's popping pistils to discourage growth? Is it even necessary to remove anything or can I just change the cycle and they will reveg totally in a couple weeks?

Thanks fuutang for the big detailed post but I just use T5s to start plants indoors then finish vegging and flowering everything outdoors.

 

[therevverend]

Herm or just weird early bud?

I don't think that's a herm, that looks like a straight up male. A tip-off is that there's no hairs on any of the nodes. I'll get out a loupe or magnifying glass to sex my plants early in June. If it's got a hair no matter how small it's good. Otherwise it's usually undetermined but that's a cluster of balls you've got! I've found with light-sensitive strains the males will start flowering at exactly that size under less then 14 hours of light. My take is that you've managed to pre-sex your crop. The ones that aren't flowering are likely females.

Canadians have gotten the photo-sensitive stuff down, they have to or else the plants don't trigger to flower until September. It's a mistake to start them under T5s at anything less then 16 hours. The light isn't as intense as a HID or the sun which is another trigger. Just moving them outdoors might fix your problem, I'd do that or dial the lighting up to 18-24 hours. The problem is that they might be very photosensitive and they could begin flowering for a couple weeks when you put them out in May until they get back in their natural rhythm. It's hard to get photo-sensitive plants to get huge. I've had luck starting them indoors in January, pre-sexing them and then making a bunch of clones. Going straight from 24 hours indoors to outdoors at the end of May to early June, even the mothers stayed in veg and got big. But I probably got lucky.