Early Flowering Problem

[49th]

I started germinating 4 seeds of 4 different varieties on March 21st under some T5 lights set to current daylight hours (13 hours) which I've never had problems with before but these are outdoor specific genetics that trigger really easily. Almost all of them are showing flowers at 2nd / 3rd nodes already.

Assuming everything is already beyond repair I at least have 7 more seeds of all of them to try again with but what can I do to combat this issue?

They germinated fine from the soil in my 4 inch containers and lived there for about 2 weeks until I moved them to .75 gallon 6.5 inch pots as an emergency transplant to give them a considerably bigger home than the slightly bigger 6 inch pots I was going to use that are quite a bit shorter in height.

Purple Durban, Apricot Kush and Texada Purple are the varieties I know of and some are from an 'outdoor mix' mystery pack. All from Vancouver seed bank except the Texada stuff. (Richard Williams from Hemp Depot)

What's my next priority assuming small containers was the initial hurdle? Do I want a closer to 15-16 hour light cycle? I was thinking of trying more May daylight hours around 15 hours from 6 am to 9 pm. They all seem too young and tender to remove any tops or biomass from but I don't know if I should leave them going either. Should I give them a decent feeding of nitrogen somehow? Heard that that can help too.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've grown outdoor only the past 6 years but also never grown any proper outdoor specific varieties so never had trigger problems with bag seeds or strings people say "can" grow outside (usually don't finish properly around here)

If there's any more variables I need to post feel free to ask me the proper questions too if necessary.

 

[49th]

Also should I just wait for it to warm up and germinate the rest of them outside in 6 inch containers to start instead?

 

[flylowgethigh]

What would happen if you put them under 16 hr light? Would they go back into veg?

 

[49th]

What would happen if you put them under 16 hr light? Would they go back into veg?

I'm not sure. That's what I'm trying to find out asking here if someone with experience with easy triggering outdoor strains has any knowledge to share.

I assume that's the biggest problem is the plants might think it's closer to late august/early fall instead of early/mid spring ?

 

[Crooked8]

If you go from flower back to a vegetative state it takes about 3-5 weeks and results in a “monster crop” where the plants will shoot new nodes/terminals out from everywhere. Its time consuming but makes for bushy plants. I would not recommend ever doing 13 hours again. Start at 18/6 and then before you want to put them outside move it down to 16/8 for a week then 14/10 and finally 13/11 before you flip them outside. If you go from 18/6 right to outside they will likely flower right away.

 

[Organilush]

Strange...I wouldn't think a photo-period plant would be "mature" enough to start flowering in less than a month after it germinated.

I start my seeds directly outdoors in late March/early April, when there is only around 12 to 13 hours of light, and haven't had any plants go into flowering early.

I don't even see any pre-flowers or any signs of sex at all for at least 6 to 8 weeks.

It's kinda crazy your seedlings basically switched into flowering immediately after germinating, sounds like something an auto-flowering plant would do. I've never heard of photoperiod plants doing that.


.

 

[49th]

If you go from flower back to a vegetative state it takes about 3-5 weeks and results in a “monster crop” where the plants will shoot new nodes/terminals out from everywhere. Its time consuming but makes for bushy plants. I would not recommend ever doing 13 hours again. Start at 18/6 and then before you want to put them outside move it down to 16/8 for a week then 14/10 and finally 13/11 before you flip them outside. If you go from 18/6 right to outside they will likely flower right away.

Okay thanks. I was under the impression I could just match the daylight hours and adjust timer accordingly but makes more sense to start at 16 or 18 even. I'll bump them up to 15-16 immediately since they're going out into the greenhouse late this month or early May. Hopefully they will go back to veg. Sounds stressful and counterproductive to what was me trying to give them a nice headstart inside.

 

[49th]

Strange...I wouldn't think a photo-period plant would be "mature" enough to start flowering in less than a month after it germinated.

I start my seeds directly outdoors in late March/early April, when there is only around 12 to 13 hours of light, and haven't had any plants go into flowering early.

I don't even see any pre-flowers or any signs of sex at all for at least 6 to 8 weeks.

It's kinda crazy your seedlings basically switched into flowering immediately after germinating, sounds like something an auto-flowering plant would do. I've never heard of photoperiod plants doing that.


.

Yeah it's odd to me but I've seen a masterkush bag seed come up like that when I planted one in early September for fun. I specifically asked the seedbank if the mix had any autoflowers and they said it does not. The Texada purple is the weirdest looking of them all. I should post a photo. Tiny little purple bud or hermaphrodite cluster at the top and purple calyx with a pistil blasting out at the 2nd node.

 

[49th]

Herm or just weird early bud?

 

[bibi40]

Why don' t you try to grow the lastest seeds directly outdoor ?
slower at the beginning but i bet you' ll not encounter this problem .

 

[49th]

Why don' t you try to grow the lastest seeds directly outdoor ?
slower at the beginning but i bet you' ll not encounter this problem .

Haha yeah that was the second post I made thinking about doing that.

I just wanted a nice headstart vegging some huge plants and also the benefit of sexing batches a bit earlier to cut down on plant numbers since they are all regular seeds but not looking to sex them THIS early of course lol...

I'll probably do 70% of them outdoors after this weekend's cold front and try the remaining ones indoors on a longer daylight cycle. I'd imagine the plants being born outside in their natural habitat would make them tougher too despite taking a bit longer to get established like you said. At worst I can always split the difference and germ in a greenhouse anyway.

 

[Guest]

Herm or just weird early bud?

For a LOT of photo-period plants, flowers will start showing under 13 hours of light. If you were giving them lots of light (like 18 to 22 hours, I'd say it might be genetics, ph, nutes, or a number of other things that can trigger 'early bloom.'

The fact is that you can force into bloom nearly ANY photo-period plant with 11 to 13 hours of light, no matter how old they are. We used to entertain 'Sea of Green' tech with 36 to 49 plants in a 4' x 4' area, and with that regimen, they MIGHT be 6-10 inches tall with single colas when the 12:12 flip occurred.

Not much going on in your situation that's mysterious, unless I missed something in your description of your circumstances..

That all said, I -have- had relatively stable, long-term plants of mine go into early bloom, even under 19 to 22.5 hours of light (various lighting, from LED 4' shop light conversion bulbs, to T8 6500k 4-ft. shop lights, 315 cmh, to 400 watt+ hps digital, and all points between), and it was almost always a matter of insufficient lighting, ph being off, nutrient imbalance, or some other source of stress screwing them up. I have put them distressed plants under better lighting, better mix, better balance in general, and they've gone on to become "all that they could be."

In short, again, unless I missed something, you appear to be worried about what I would categorize as a non-issue.

Good luck.

 

[flylowgethigh]

I have read here about people taking a clone then going right into flower to sex a plant, then grow out the clone.

My case is the opposite, as I kicked 2 plants out o 18/6, and they are outside now. Gonna be in a garden somewhere.

 

[40degsouth]

Hi everyone,
49th, I’d crank the hours up to 20/4, reveg them completely, in bigger pots and then bring the hours down before putting them out on the 1st of December . If it was me I’d take cuts and aim to have them at two feet tall in a one, or two, gallon pot for this planting. At your latitude, I’m guessing you could get them out earlier with the daylight hours.
I’ve experimented with planting times for seed-starts and clones but the one constant l look for is the soil temperature to be 10 deg C or above. Later starts will catch up and overtake earlier starts for this reason. Early childhood is very, very important.
l plant my seeds between 20th September (March) to 1st November (May), in two to three lots in order to have transitional planting and backups.
I do sometimes plant seeds outside very early to select for genetics that do well in cold conditions.
I remember reading on the subject of males throwing pistils and from memory, some breeders look for this trait to bring higher female populations to a seed batch; l think it was in the “Growing Large Plants Outdoors” thread. Personally, not knowing the breeder, or the particular plants stability, I’d get rid of it and look for something else.
Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers,
40.

 

[troutman]

I have plants flower outdoors with a little more than 15 hours. So 13 hours is not enough to stay
in vegetative mode for what you're growing I guess. Go with at least 16 hours to be safe for now.

 

[f-e]

Just light them 24/7 and put them out when I'm ready. Not earlier than March 23rd in the UK. That's the latest you can expect a frost. Though it should actually be nice (for the UK)

 

[Crooked8]

Just light them 24/7 and put them out when I'm ready. Not earlier than March 23rd in the UK. That's the latest you can expect a frost. Though it should actually be nice (for the UK)

If he does this, they will flower instantly upon being put outside, even if he did it around the solstice there would be too much darkness for them to not flower unless he used lights to keep them in veg. If he keeps them closer to 20/4 or imo 18/6 in veg and then ease them into it, thats how you have a healthy transition.

 

[49th]

For a LOT of photo-period plants, flowers will start showing under 13 hours of light. If you were giving them lots of light (like 18 to 22 hours, I'd say it might be genetics, ph, nutes, or a number of other things that can trigger 'early bloom.'

The fact is that you can force into bloom nearly ANY photo-period plant with 11 to 13 hours of light, no matter how old they are. We used to entertain 'Sea of Green' tech with 36 to 49 plants in a 4' x 4' area, and with that regimen, they MIGHT be 6-10 inches tall with single colas when the 12:12 flip occurred.

Not much going on in your situation that's mysterious, unless I missed something in your description of your circumstances..

That all said, I -have- had relatively stable, long-term plants of mine go into early bloom, even under 19 to 22.5 hours of light (various lighting, from LED 4' shop light conversion bulbs, to T8 6500k 4-ft. shop lights, 315 cmh, to 400 watt+ hps digital, and all points between), and it was almost always a matter of insufficient lighting, ph being off, nutrient imbalance, or some other source of stress screwing them up. I have put them distressed plants under better lighting, better mix, better balance in general, and they've gone on to become "all that they could be."

In short, again, unless I missed something, you appear to be worried about what I would categorize as a non-issue.

Good luck.

Thanks, this is pretty much it. I think. A nice way of saying I'm stupid/made an obvious mistake.

I was running some peak seeds genetics for the past 2 years and never had this issue but I may have been giving them a longer cycle. I'm very bad at not taking notes or remembering things I did that worked or didn't work.. I started 16 seeds early March I had from last year. Peak's Northern Lights x Skunk, TexadaxSkunk X C99 and Nothern Lights x Haze and none of them were showing sex under the short light cycle but when I brought them outside into the greenhouse 15 of them already showing gender after a couple of weeks out there, but they are mature enough and hardened off outside already so shouldn't have any issues other than some of them finishing mid/late October which isn't ideal for me (hence why I got a bunch of stuff that finishes August to Sept this season) Also the female/male flowers are showing from the nodes as opposed to right out the top which seems more promising like a proper preflower.

I mean at least I already culled out some males and weird herm thing from the 2nd batch. I'm kind of reluctant to plant the Texada Purple after seeing a weird hermaphrodite-looking plant but probably my fault for triggering it early and stressing it out. 15 pack was $55 so might as well try I guess and can always just throw them into the compost and be sad I wasted my money at worst. Maybe hemp depot or Richard Williams will replace them if there's an actual issue though as most smaller breeders take a lot of pride in their work I've noticed.

The Ancestral Seeds Purple Durban and Apricot Kush seem to be taking the stress better and not doing anything too crazy. Currently have everything on a 16 hour cycle and throwing out 4 of these weird male/hermed out ones to start again properly.

Kind of a pricey mistake but some should be able to reveg hopefully and at least I only popped 4 seeds each as testers (should have done 1 or 2 but hey live and learn)

With a new season and new experiments will come new problems of course but at least I'm no loving my plants to death anymore like a few seasons ago lolol...

 

[49th]

My initial idea was to try to match the daylight cycle outside so that I didn't have to adjust the levels before bringing them out but clearly it was a counter-intuitive idea that backfired

 

[fuutang]

If you have any doubts about light. Veg 24/7 always ON. There is no set veg time. A Maxibright CFL can flower plants in 10 days from seed. If you have this problem your finished-plants will be tiny with virtuall no yield. So you need to counter this. Just leave your lamps on 24/7 and this will stop flowering. 6 weeks veg is a good starting point, IMO. Ideally you should veg for 3 months or more and then your plants will produce bigger buds. But most nubes cant wait that long cus their plants outgrow their closets. Endless vegging pointlessly stinks their grow ops out beyond the flowering horizon.

Flower 12/12. If your plants are stubborn to flowerafter whatever veg period you have, hit them with some home-LED's to boost flowering and resin production. For most people, plants can be stubborn to flower let alone produce enhanced resin; unless you've got the latest-greatest LED set up from the get go.

Home LED's (see below) are a very useful quick fix to enchance flowering and resin production. They also stop height gain where height is an issue. I tried home LED's on some CFL vegged plants that were shooting beyond my grow space height. Thanks to blynx, the LED's made my plants stop stretching and produce loads more buds and resin, almost like the pro's who post unbelievable images of resin laden plants here on ICmag, that look like they could be airbrushed-fakes. I now know they are not fake, and I realise this was a matter of my lamps were lacking in certain light bandwidths or light-colour. Home LED's added the extra colour needed. The LED's I chose were cheap low wattage 6watts bulbs. I only needed a handful of the Red (Warm white) home LED's, and the whole of the plants started budding right out. Although the LED's stopped the plants stretching, the yield hasn't depreciated, and my plants still produced a full yield. I originally flowered the plants using just the home-LED's. But later I added a 200w Red CFL for more lumens and this worked fine in tandem. Some of the guys are using commonly available 11watts plus home LED bulbs, so a bit more powerful. If you want to risk gettin these, you will get more lumens, although I am not able to recommend any other brands than ULTRABRITE below. However, when clustered together, 'literally ANY' home LED's can make significant wattage and lumens. So string a few together. Five would be good starting point. Get them over the top of those ladies to stop the stretching, and producing more buds and resin. Wilko have a 2m clip on light for £2, which includes a fused plug. IMO, even one home-LED will improve your light bandwidth or light-colours.

You will never worry about stretching again. Once your plants are tall enough and you want to stop stretching and start flowering, you simply add some home LED's and the stretching stops, flowering and resin starts. As you can see, lamp-holder fittings are negligible, and can be bought from £1.50. If you want to wire them, they just need wire and a plug. I appreciate this stuff can mount up to the cost of a proper lamp. But for a few pounds, you can quickly stop stretchy plants becoming unviable. This might even save your grow, if using a closet. I can only recommend the ULTRABRITE brand home LED's pictured below, though I am told squat plants are a common trait for Red home LED's; except that Blue LED's stretches them more, but they still squat by normal standards. Some of the guys, like blynx, use Blue-home-LED's to stretch plants before flowering, cus the plants are too squat using just Red LED's. Heh, hehh, too squat! Can you believe this; You probably will? I was putting off getting a full blown LED lamp cus of the problems I had with CFL's over the years, causing stretching, over-veggin and poor flowering. Then I bought a Maxibright CFL lamp that induces flowering in 10 days. But after producing tiny plants, the alarm bells began to ring. Would I ever get a decent routine CFL grow. I thought that a purpose made Grow-LED would be more trial and error. I have been looking everywhere for reviews of purpose made LED grow lamps. There were only a few reviews of any use at all. Suddenly blynx amazing intellect entered, and home LED's were given a try. Then the epiphany; a moment of sudden and great revelation or realization! At last, I can stop the plants stretching basically whenever I want. Home LED's are very cheap too, from £1; and to make more lumens everyone is taking the filter-caps off; which leads to some scary electric shock hazards from the 240volt pins, inappropriately placed, and sticking out of the centre of the home LED's. Like, you were workin, and put your hand too near, Ouch!!!__ But if you can deal wif dat, then you can fit anything in your 5' space.

The reason for increased lumens by taking the filter-caps off home LED's, is well explained here, in;
Why I Break The Diffuser Off My LED "Bulbs" For My Grow Light Panels https://youtu.be/JG_iXOIb1tk



Google the ULTRABRITE brand or go here to Poundland: https://www.poundland.co.uk/399087-ultrabrite-bc-5-5w-led-round-1-pack/
https://www.icmag.com/filedata/fetch?id=17826220&d=1617762882https://www.icmag.com/filedata/fetch?id=17826221&d=1617762905

Someone is charging £6+ for these £1 bulbs on eBay, heh. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultrabri...-Screw-Cap-Warm-White-2700K-40w-/333205460623

Don' t do it, they are only £1 each in Poundland. https://www.poundland.co.uk/catalogs...t/?q=light+led

blynx is using home LED's here, with their noteable filter-caps removed, which can be unrecognisable to the untrained eye. Note the squatness of the plant, which may also have been stretched using some Blue-home-LED's. The following pic shows final growth from a single plant. Blnyx's LED CAB space concept deliberately ties plants down to encourage side growth, maximising yield from a single plant, while side growth is also very short and squat, especially under Red home LED's. The side growing plants become full size colas, like clones, but without the cutting. You can see more of blynx posts here: https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijuan...0#post10943498 and here https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijuan...4#post10869164






Av it mate