Eagle 20 PM Killer, Cancerous?

[SeaMaiden]

Is cancer the only problem we encounter with Eagle20? No, it's not. Page 2 of the Eagle20 WSP label, discussed directly.

I'm an Eagle20 hater. One of the bigger reasons is that it's causing resistance in PM fungi. This is well documented, and even noted on the label of E20 itself. Yet many, if not most of the cannabis growers who insist on using it don't seem to understand this. Just like the folks who've helped bring us Floramite and NPS-resistant mites (apparently, they are truly Borg, they can resist anything given the chance), we're going to see a huge upswing in instances of PM that can't be treated with the magic silver bullet of choice.

I'd rather go with organic IPM strategies. I'm also incredulous as to the harmfulness of ingesting PM at this time, as I've been searching for any citable papers that discuss it as being a disease-causing organism in humans (allergies, perhaps, though again, I haven't found it yet). People seem to think that once they've made the fruiting bodies disappear that the PM has been eradicated from plant tissues, and I do not believe that is the case.

Weird, I dig where you're coming from. However, we can only strive to keep the rhizosphere healthy enough to allow an organism to resist PM.

 

[johnipedestran]

some people have a lower IQ than others....there is no argument that can be made that this stuff is safe.
it does have a catchy name though.


peace
jip

 

[EclipseFour20]

lol...still no evidence--lots of huffing and puffing....too funny!
Opinions are what people develop in their head....and when folks run out of facts, they resort to name calling and belittling.

I still have lots of facts.....and have not belittled anyone. Hey, its cool, I was young and smart once---I knew EVERYTHING and no one could tell me differently; then I graduated from kindergarten and realized that NO ONE HAS A MONOPOLY ON GOOD IDEAS!

 

[420247]

Weird, I agree with you and won't use it on my shit, nut what they say on the DOW site is what it is...

Features

Convenient, liquid formulation
Prevents/treats dollar spot, anthracnose, summer patch, brown patch, powdery mildew, rust and scab
Available in two convenient sizes — one-gallon jugs and one-pint containers
Systemic protectant
For use on golf course fairways, roughs, tees and greens, commercial and residential stone fruit trees, apple trees and grapes, and other landscape ornamentals
For use on ornamentals such as chrysanthemums, daylilies, poinsettias and roses in nurseries, landscapes and greenhouses
Best control of labeled diseases is achieved when Eagle® 20EW is applied on a seven- to 10-day application schedule

The confusing part is
commercial and residential stone fruit trees, apple trees and grapes, and other landscape ornamentals

Are they saying you can use it on grapes, apples, and stone fruit ORNAMENTALS?????????????


No comprende... ayudame

Yes they are saying that

Fruit trees are not just grown to eat, we like the flowers and fall colors too, and some people just dont want the fruit

ornamental grapevine

ornamental fruit trees

I would add crabapple trees to the ornamental section as well

 

[odogyouknow]

Yea, I get that people grow ornamental fruit trees, but as far as a toxic label goes, I think that is severely misleading to include several types of edible fruits as o.k. to be used and then include "ornamental" which is basically like a disclaimer for them for anyone that ingests anything E20 touches.

Like me, Im not the most scientific type like others in the thread, but when I saw grapes on the label it had me thinking "oh, maybe this stuff isn't so bad."

As far as the hard data of it being used on a multitude of food crops posted above at the rate of ~tenth of a pound per acre.... Well shit.

I think the real answer would be found in the tobacco industry's stance on the product, I mean, we're incinerating and inhaling this shit!!!!!

 

[Duplicate]

so your smart enough to research lemmings and read about nitrification but did you read the manufactures data sheet or product use instructions

the product is not meant for leafy greens that are to be consumed and its ingredients cause cancer, reproductive disorders AND birth defects

its in the data sheet but im sure you know that but have no other agenda than to troll me

why?

cause your a pathetic fuck who want to justify your shitty ways by demeaning those who aren't like you

its ok I know by the context of the response the magnitude of your being

when you have something real to bring the adults table then you can sit at it

until then get back with the children where you belong

Did I mention one thing about Eagle 20? I didn't. Do you know why? Because I have absolutely zero experience with it. I haven't even read the MSDS. I probably won't ever use it.

I know you're getting ganged up on in this thread and that might be why you replied this way but please know this isn't my intention. You, yourself said that "propagation of the truth however means everything". Is there one thing in my reply that wasn't true? The smilies were not meant to be condescending, rather to try and express levity in my post. If your reply is any indication of how adults are to act then I'd rather stay a kid.

 

[420247]

As far as the hard data of it being used on a multitude of food crops posted above at the rate of ~tenth of a pound per acre.... Well shit.

If its an ornamental fruit tree, its not a food crop.

I would spray a Krauter Vesuvius flowering plum and not care, but never a Burgundy plum... Same goes for the Double White peach but I wouldnt spray the Gold Dust peach... You grow one for looks and the other for food... Kinda like how people grow hemp type cannabis for fiber and drug type cannabis to ingest

 

[krunchbubble]

EVIDENCE.....

Cold Hard EVIDENCE.....

WHERE IS IT?

OH! Dont Have It?

Hard To Believe What Someone Just Says, NEED EVIDENCE...


EAGLE20 IS RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING POWDER MILDEW IN THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF GROW ROOMS, SAVING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IF NOT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN WASTED PRODUCT....

Single Most Effective Powder Mildew Killer Out, WINNER......

 

[odogyouknow]

O.K. Hopping in traffic and speedin like a demon is probably more dangerous than this stuff and I have NO EVIDENCE that this stuff if harmful...

But when I go to the earlier link and see the skull and crossbones under

1. Developmental and Reproductive Toxin
and
2. PAN Bad Actor Chemical
and
3, Suspected endocrine Disruptor

I ain't using it and hopefully I ain't smoking it.

 

[Buju09]

Seems pretty simple, one side keeps being ignorant of the facts its not safe, and justifying it because the rate of cancer is so small its worth it to risk hurting other peoples or their own health just to save a crop.

You could also look at this as it damages you're DNA, and the DNA passed on when you have kids, and then into their kids, you start to taint you're Genetics with cancerous things you're going to end up seeing it when birth defects pop up in gran kids and such, or when you cant' have em.

Why introduce you're body or anyone else's to something that could do serious harm.

 

[krunchbubble]

I heard that pigs fly too...but according to those smarter than me, Myclobutanil--the active ingredient of Eagle 20EW IS NOT A LIKELY carcinogen.

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC120

Eagle's MSDS lists majority of the fungicide ingredients, and it appears just Naphthalene is a "possible carcinogen"--but at the rate of 0.2%, I think my chili farts are more deadly!

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp6DG001.pdf

Seriously, I use Eagle to keep some PM issues in check, so if you guys have any information to support what you "heard"--Eagle being carcinogenic, then I would love to know about it!

Cheers!

and lets bring back, "some proof" this kat brought up....

and lets NOT forget, that no one sprays this in flowering, whatever is ingested, is NOT the same plant material that is sprayed....

 

[EclipseFour20]

...I think the real answer would be found in the tobacco industry's stance on the product, I mean, we're incinerating and inhaling this shit!!!!!

Well...interesting conclusion I stumbled on, titled "Dissipation and Residues of Myclobutanil in Tobacco and Soil Under Field Conditions."

"Field experiments were conducted in two different locations to determine the dissipation pattern and residue levels of myclobutanil in tobacco leaves and soil. Myclobutanil 12.5 % microemulsion (ME) formulation was sprayed once at 3.0 mL/ha, and the residues in green tobacco leaves dissipated to more than 50 % of the initial deposits 5 days after application and up to above 90 % after 21 days. The dissipation rate of myclobutanil in soil was lower than that in green tobacco leaves. The residues dissipated above 50 % of the initial deposits 7 days after treatment and dissipated about 90 % after 42 days. The calculated half-life values (T (1/2)) were found to be 4.89-6.77 days in green tobacco leaves and 12.88-19.20 days in soil, respectively. The ultimate residues of myclobutanil in flue-cured tobacco leaves and soil were determined after the third and fourth applications at levels of 2.0 and 3.0 mL/ha. Myclobutanil residues in cured tobacco leaves 21 days after the last treatment ranged from 0.85 to 3.27 mg/kg. Meanwhile, the residues detected in soil reached below 0.045 mg/kg 21 days after the last treatment."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22415649

So...I guess it is safe for tobacco---they use it evidently. Now, why the skull and crossbones and PAN Bad Actor deal? You will not believe the answer.

First, what are PAN Bad Actors? "PAN Bad Actors are chemicals that are one or more of the following: highly acutely toxic, cholinesterase inhibitor, known/probable carcinogen, known groundwater pollutant or known reproductive or developmental toxicant."

So why is Myclobutanil a "Bad Actor"...any guesses? It is not what you think. The answers are in the section just past the skull and crossbones--seems that no one took the time to read it, so allow me to post it.

WHO rates Myclobutanil as "III slightly hazardous" and EPA has "no census value"...so IT IS NOT HIGHLY ACUTELY TOXIC (nope, not the first one).

Is it not a cholinesterase inhibitor....(ok, 2 down a few more to go)

As for Myclobutanil being a carcinogen, US EPA classifies it as a "Category E Unlikely" (Category E: Probably not carcinogenic, with no evidence of carcinogenicity in at least two adequate animal tests in different species in adequate epidemiologic and animal studies. (3 down...)

Groundwater rating...insufficient data, hmmm is this the qualifier for being a Pan Bad Actor?....nah, 4 down and no dingers yet.

It seems that like almost all chemicals (we have all seen those California Prop 65 signs/warnings about reproductive or developmental toxicants....well, guess what--that is the sole reason Myclobutanil it is a PAN Bad Actor.
​

Got it...all the hysteria cuz, it is a Prop 65 chemical. Too funny...most everything under my kitchen sink came with a Prop 65 warning, in fact--the Riedel Crystal wine glasses I got for Christmas came with the Prop 65 warning...lead glass is used to make crystal. Don't gas stations have Prop 65 warning signs posted too?

For a complete list of Prop 65 chems....http://www.oehha.ca.gov/prop65/prop65_list/files/P65single021712.pdf....which includes a dangerous pill called "aspirin"....lol.

So lets see....1 ml per gallon, foliar spray on leaves, 5 day foliar half life, 90% gone in 21 days...1 gallon will service how many plants in veg?...hmmm, what was the question again? Is Eagle safe? Where is the proof that it is not?....waiting....

 

[krunchbubble]

Well...interesting conclusion I stumbled on, titled "Dissipation and Residues of Myclobutanil in Tobacco and Soil Under Field Conditions."

"Field experiments were conducted in two different locations to determine the dissipation pattern and residue levels of myclobutanil in tobacco leaves and soil. Myclobutanil 12.5 % microemulsion (ME) formulation was sprayed once at 3.0 mL/ha, and the residues in green tobacco leaves dissipated to more than 50 % of the initial deposits 5 days after application and up to above 90 % after 21 days. The dissipation rate of myclobutanil in soil was lower than that in green tobacco leaves. The residues dissipated above 50 % of the initial deposits 7 days after treatment and dissipated about 90 % after 42 days. The calculated half-life values (T (1/2)) were found to be 4.89-6.77 days in green tobacco leaves and 12.88-19.20 days in soil, respectively. The ultimate residues of myclobutanil in flue-cured tobacco leaves and soil were determined after the third and fourth applications at levels of 2.0 and 3.0 mL/ha. Myclobutanil residues in cured tobacco leaves 21 days after the last treatment ranged from 0.85 to 3.27 mg/kg. Meanwhile, the residues detected in soil reached below 0.045 mg/kg 21 days after the last treatment."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22415649

So...I guess it is safe for tobacco---they use it evidently. Now, why the skull and crossbones and PAN Bad Actor deal? You will not believe the answer.

First, what are PAN Bad Actors? "PAN Bad Actors are chemicals that are one or more of the following: highly acutely toxic, cholinesterase inhibitor, known/probable carcinogen, known groundwater pollutant or known reproductive or developmental toxicant."

So why is Myclobutanil a "Bad Actor"...any guesses? It is not what you think. The answers are in the section just past the skull and crossbones--seems that no one took the time to read it, so allow me to post it.

WHO rates Myclobutanil as "III slightly hazardous" and EPA has "no census value"...so IT IS NOT HIGHLY ACUTELY TOXIC (nope, not the first one).

Is it not a cholinesterase inhibitor....(ok, 2 down a few more to go)

As for Myclobutanil being a carcinogen, US EPA classifies it as a "Category E Unlikely" (Category E: Probably not carcinogenic, with no evidence of carcinogenicity in at least two adequate animal tests in different species in adequate epidemiologic and animal studies. (3 down...)

Groundwater rating...insufficient data, hmmm is this the qualifier for being a Pan Bad Actor?....nah, 4 down and no dingers yet.

It seems that like almost all chemicals (we have all seen those California Prop 65 signs/warnings about reproductive or developmental toxicants....well, guess what--that is the sole reason Myclobutanil it is a PAN Bad Actor.
​

Got it...all the hysteria cuz, it is a Prop 65 chemical. Too funny...most everything under my kitchen sink came with a Prop 65 warning, in fact--the Riedel Crystal wine glasses I got for Christmas came with the Prop 65 warning...lead glass is used to make crystal. Don't gas stations have Prop 65 warning signs posted too?

So lets see....1 ml per gallon, foliar spray on leaves, 5 day foliar half life, 90% gone in 21 days...1 gallon will service how many plants in veg?...hmmm, what was the question again? Is Eagle safe? Where is the proof that it is not?....waiting....

BIG PROPS to you my man!!!!

hit it out of the park, 600+ft....

cant give you any more rep atm.....

anyone have a rebuttal to this? id like to hear it....

 

[EclipseFour20]

It effect males reproductive systems only--"Male reproductive toxicity -- Myclobutanil: Exposure to Myclobutanil, a recognized reproductive toxicant, can negatively affect the male reproductive system. Myclobutanil is used mainly as a fungicide. The severity and nature of the adverse effect is variable and can be influenced by factors such as level of exposure and individual sensitivity to the chemical. Effects on the male reproductive system can include such things as altered sexual behavior, altered fertility and problems with sperm shape or count."

http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/m/male_reproductive_toxicity_myclobutanil/intro.htm

I am a guy...and not worried.

 

[MIway]

have it, used it, will do it again whenever i take in another cut... but it's pretty clear that it's a hardcore chem with evidence of potential harm... and even working w it, super strong (choking) chem odor & even almost taste that sticks in the mouth... u really do need respirators & gloves. it's a chem.

thing is, fda/epa are mainly mechanisms to bring product to market, and to even limit competition to the established players... or that's my take at least. the 'tests' for human safety & extended environmental effects... shoddy at best. we see lots of human use drugs that make it to market only to later discover detrimental effects. it's safe to assume that they don't want tests to show negative effects... and that they look only as far as they are required to do... and no further into the subject than that. ya can't trust em... and even if they say it's okay for you... dunno, almost want to suggest that likely it is not.

and our overall experience w these chems... modern advances in technologies & sciences... is incredibly limited where we don't really have much perspective on the actual/potential harms of our actions... that we are slowly but surely poisoning the world & ourselves over time... and that is even accelerating in pace, along w our newly discovered sciences... more chems & more compounds.

but to keep it balanced... i'm drinking birth control pills in my bottled water... can see the air i breath... and am ingesting all sorts of growth hormones & things i really don't want to even know about in that juicy burger... and hell, i smoke too... so already getting a healthy dose of e20...?

i use it to break cycles of infested plants... and rely on controlling the environment to ensure it never has to be used again... except the next time i bring in some plants. once mine, they somehow manage to stay clean w/o the chems. but i sure wouldn't want to spray it on anything i plan to smoke again... like i said, already getting my healthy dose of toxins from other sources.

just trying to add some balance to it all. peace

 

[Weird]

BIG PROPS to you my man!!!!

hit it out of the park, 600+ft....

cant give you any more rep atm.....

anyone have a rebuttal to this? id like to hear it....

yeah its simple

look at the url for the product

http://www.dowagro.com/turf/products/fungicides/eagle_20ew.htm

and the product index

http://www.dowagro.com/turf/products/fungicides/index.htm

notice the word in bold, you are looking at product that is developed for turf and ornamental

now go back to DOW and choose and of the fungicide that is made for agriculture (consumable crops) such as

http://www.dowagro.com/usag/prod/063.htm

and the product index (click disease to see their approved fungicides

http://www.dowagro.com/usag/prod/

if the product categorization by the company is not proof enough for you then your are more than negligent you are purposely exposing people to dangerous chemicals for no reason

you are a danger to the community because you are down right belligerent

e expect you to be this grossly negligent with information, i've seen your shows and after seeing the quality of them i expect nothing less from you

there are a myriad of solutions that don't come at the expense of others but you only care about the expense to yourself

rationalize it as you may, finding a quick and easy solutions and puffing out your chest was more important than putting in some effort and building up some skills

just like you vado and eclipse, i couldn't care you want to poison yourselves but to do that to people when your providers???
really??

you guys are some heady mother fuckers

 

[odogyouknow]

BIG PROPS to you my man!!!!

hit it out of the park, 600+ft....

cant give you any more rep atm.....

anyone have a rebuttal to this? id like to hear it....

Dude, Why is this like a win or lose argument for ya?

The thread started from a more questioning standpoint looking for answers because if you post a worry about the stuff in the other thread you're not having any of it. The main argument in the other thread is like "c'mon man, this shits fine, tons of folks are using it."

As far as Eclispe, Fuck yea, that study you found is legit and is some of the first real data on it I've seen in here.

So what I got from it is that the study found mycobutanil in levels .85% to 3.27% per kilo in dried, cured tobacco 21 days after application when sprayed @3ml/ha in 12.5% concentrations?


My main issue with that abstract/report is it was done by the tobacco research institute...of China.

BTW E20 has ~20 Mycobutanil

As far as the issuance of a prop 65/PAN warning, I agree with you and yes, fuckin hysteria, everything under the sink, etc.



All in all when people in the know like you use it, we're looking at probably about three times ~60 days the time in the study, but if I'm reading it right (which I easily may not) There will be residues.

Recap - Eclipse, at this point I'm over the carcinogen thing, as seemingly everything causes cancer these days. And put my discontent with the PAN/65 warnings down. I guess the issue in residual Myclobutanil

 

[Easygrowing]

I seen Bayer also have one product against PM,Bt those active stuff can be the same,as in Eagle 20..try to look it up mabye..It,s to roses,but also to vegetable,or how you spells that..but yes-them we dont smoke,but mabye we smoke 2bacco,they given cancer,so a bit here end a bit there.Try H2o2 or milk or eagle 20 : )
Nope ! Tebuconazol is in those..it,s for flowers and dont put it,into your eyes they says.weird..

 

[odogyouknow]

1 - Myclobutanil residues in cured tobacco leaves 21 days after the last treatment ranged from 0.85 to 3.27 mg/kg.

2 - So...I guess it is safe for tobacco---they use it evidently

3 - 5 day foliar half life, 90% gone in 21 days

I just don't know if that's going to cut it for people who choose to use cannabis over prescription drugs that have been "proven" to be "safe"

I wonder how many people have used it incorrectly (stoner logic, the more the better) and how many people would question their choice id they knew about the occurrence of residues?

 

[EclipseFour20]

...I guess the issue in residual Myclobutanil

EXACTLY...that is why I look at "half life" data where possible. It gives me an idea of what I can expect.

My rationale is--I spray the leaves in veg, by the time I harvest, most of the veg leaves are long gone and I am looking at buds...which did not exist in veg. Why...cuz I run 2 killer stains, and the sativa strain never has PM, but the indica strain is the top dog at the collective, but can be a "PM sponge".

So here is my trade off....either spray 1 ml of Eagle/per gallon two times (once in veg and again on flip day to 12/12) and no mas....or spend hours spraying every 7 days a rotation of serenade, raw milk, potassium bicarbonate (green cure), sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), mildew cure (essential oils), silica, compost teas laced with bacteria--and still no 100% assurance that PM will not find its way inside a few buds.

I use Eagle and everyone at the collective is happy! BTW, Eagle is compatible with raw milk, micronutes, sea minerals, epsom salt, liquid kelp, hydrolyzed fish, and of course compost tea. Knocking out two birds with one stone (two-fer) is nice; after doing a lots of compatibility tests, I have yet to find something that Eagle is not friendly with.

BTW...Weird, if you base your whole argument on how Dow organizes their web site and set aside all professional studies, OK...thats fine. However, in my world, most IT techs/website gurus are incredibly smart when it comes bits and bytes, but are clueless when it comes to the science/business of their employer.

Put differently Weird, if YOU hired a consultant and HIS advice (which you paid $$$$ for) ignored all professional published works and instead solely based on how a particular company organized their website...would you say your money for this advice was well spent? How about if you went to court with this evidence? Would you win or lose; scholarly work vs website organization....hmmmm.

Knowledge is a bitch, especially when it fails to support your opinion!