Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

[whadeezlrg]

the first dudd I ever saw was in 09, i got some cuts from a buddy and about 50% of the hindu skunks were dudd AF..PO didn't cause the original outbreak of dudds...I'm fairly certain josey doesn't stock his room with po cuts or cuts from po cuts for that matter, and he has experienced them as well as many others that haven't dealt with PO ever, I'm not saying PO is not responsible for cleaning up their act to work to halt the progression of this plague, but placing the blame on them is just pointing fingers at this point...and if it ends up being these nematodes causing duddism then how can we realistically fault them for not being able to fight an unknown opponent? and it still doesn't answer this: why do my glues look fine and my boys glues are dudds when his cuts came off of the same mother as mine? I got the cut in NV, damn near direct from jaydub.

 

[Storm Shadow]

Kontos takes 2 weeks to work, spinosad is a contact killer, chitosan is a SAR booster with nematode killing properties, heritage is a fungicide ...I will use anything and everything to eliminate this problem....

People at progressive options are not very sharp, they had no idea they had brod mites until yours truly called Z and broke it down for him...I haven't bought cuts from them for at least a year or 2 ... I ran warehouses full of their genetics and had no issues no duds until I got that free GSC they were giving out. .

Broadmites are a walk in the park these days.... stem nematodes are the new poster boy

2009 is when we had that alfalfa stem nematode breakout in California

 

[whadeezlrg]

I don't really consider po a source to fill up a room, more so a genetic database/ source for mother stock fwiw, but i had dudds from them years before they had the gsc...first dudd i got from po was SWERVES chem D in the stupid tiny nursery cup with "swerves chem d" labeling..this was like end of 09 when they were still upstairs in van nuys..literally the shittiest hemp plant I've ever grown

 

[Grizz]

the first dudd I ever saw was in 09, i got some cuts from a buddy and about 50% of the hindu skunks were dudd AF..PO didn't cause the original outbreak of dudds...I'm fairly certain josey doesn't stock his room with po cuts or cuts from po cuts for that matter, and he has experienced them as well as many others that haven't dealt with PO ever, I'm not saying PO is not responsible for cleaning up their act to work to halt the progression of this plague, but placing the blame on them is just pointing fingers at this point...and if it ends up being these nematodes causing duddism then how can we realistically fault them for not being able to fight an unknown opponent? and it still doesn't answer this: why do my glues look fine and my boys glues are dudds when his cuts came off of the same mother as mine? I got the cut in NV, damn near direct from jaydub.

your head has the same questions I have been asking, 2 plus 2 just don't add up to 4 as they should

 

[Storm Shadow]

JW what doesn't add up for you bro? It says in all the reading that stem nematodes can live inside plants for years before conditions are right for them to cause any damage and also they can be spread through seeds and yes there is a good chance they are in the coco also

 

[whadeezlrg]

JW what doesn't add up for you bro? It says in all the reading that stem nematodes can live inside plants for years before conditions are right for them to cause any damage and also they can be spread through seeds and yes there is a good chance they are in the coco also

ouch, I've definitely got more reading to do...this is sounding pretty f'd up...any mainstream ag solutions for killing em off yet?

edit: with some quick reading I'm seeing that there are really no chemical solutions(really that any chem solutions are just not cost effective concerning alfalfa production, I imagine our margins are a bit wider than commercial alfalfa), the recommended solutions include crop rotation and resistant varieties from seeds...this is sounding worse and worse

 

[Storm Shadow]

I wish there was a nematicide that killed them off 100%, nada yet..

A couple studies say avid, pylon, kontos, spinosad and neem oil can kill them off

That's why I'm throwing everything including the kitchen sink at them

 

[Grizz]

JW what doesn't add up for you bro? It says in all the reading that stem nematodes can live inside plants for years before conditions are right for them to cause any damage and also they can be spread through seeds and yes there is a good chance they are in the coco also

well I am hard headed for sure but like I said I have switched locations many time and I just don't see how sour dub dudes for me when it doesent for the guy I got the cut from, like Deezy said his gg4 doesent dud but yet a guys he gave cuts to does,

 

[Storm Shadow]

everyones room provides a different environment which may or may not be ideal for the Nematodes to cause issues... also...everyone treats their plants with some sort of bug killer...who is to say these people weren't killing them off with neem , avid, etc...

Some genetics are immune to them ....some plants that are not immune...if they are in optimal health...have a better chance of fighting them off... bro...it can be so many factors

Natural Bacteria in your medium can dictate how much damage they do... list goes on forever... how hot your room is plays a key role ...

 

[whadeezlrg]

still leaves me wondering why we sometimes see single branch dudds, it's very strange that only a branch or two show signs of duddism while the rest of the plant is as healthy as expected.

fwiw, i dont use pesticides unless i have a known problem...no preventative sprays for me, although when new genetics are brought in i always hit em with bayer rose & flower ready to spray just as a precaution.

 

[Grizz]

everyones room provides a different environment which may or may not be ideal for the Nematodes to cause issues... also...everyone treats their plants with some sort of bug killer...who is to say these people weren't killing them off with neem , avid, etc...

Some genetics are immune to them ....some plants that are not immune...if they are in optimal health...have a better chance of fighting them off... bro...it can be so many factors

Natural Bacteria in your medium can dictate how much damage they do... list goes on forever... how hot your room is plays a key role ...

agree on that, just so many variables to deal with. Deezzy brought out another good point about the single branch duds, how could they get on one branch and not the whole plant ?

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

i dont have much to add on the branch other than maybe they move in clusters in the plant and are localized to a single more attractive or vulnerable branch at lower population counts. just a guess. no real info behind my comment just sideways from the ass talk but its a thought i had. also you can kill them in a cultivar to save a clone only genetic im pretty sure this would work.. so if or when you decide its time to clean out and start over this would work according to the literature for saving a genetic. hot water baths for cuttings at a prescribed time and temperature. the kill rate can get to 100% but you would have to find that sweet spot that gave enough plant survival to get some percentage of each cut but also accomplished a 100% kill ratio.

 

[RetroGrow]

agree on that, just so many variables to deal with. Deezzy brought out another good point about the single branch duds, how could they get on one branch and not the whole plant ?

We need to get one of those dudded branches tested.
That much seems obvious.
The assumption is being made that there is only one cause of dudding, while it could be several different issues. We already know that BMs cause dudding, now it seems that Ditylenchus dipsaci also causes dudding.
Ditylenchus dipsaci causes physical breaks/cracks in the stems, which opens up the possibility of other opportunistic infections, ie., fusarium, bacteria, viruses, etc. which might also contribute to dudding. In addition, there well may be other causes that we don't know about yet. People who have seen the nematodes need to send their samples in, not only for confirmation by a lab, but also to see if there are other factors at play.

 

[amannamedtruth]

we should probably get 5+ confirmed D. dipsaci sightings at the very least to confirm this case as closed...

 

[RetroGrow]

I wish there was a nematicide that killed them off 100%, nada yet..

A couple studies say avid, pylon, kontos, spinosad and neem oil can kill them off

That's why I'm throwing everything including the kitchen sink at them

Why not try Bayer's nematicide, Nemacur?
It has been banned, due to fish kills in nearby lakes,streams, but is still available to purchase until October 6.

 

[Elmer Bud]

ouch, I've definitely got more reading to do...this is sounding pretty f'd up...any mainstream ag solutions for killing em off yet?

edit: with some quick reading I'm seeing that there are really no chemical solutions(really that any chem solutions are just not cost effective concerning alfalfa production, I imagine our margins are a bit wider than commercial alfalfa), the recommended solutions include crop rotation and resistant varieties from seeds...this is sounding worse and worse

G`day WD

It will get real interesting if we all turn to strawberry breeding techs like Tom Hill preaches .
1 mother plant to supply all gardens like strawberries . . Then you will see genetic non diversity at play ...

Get ready for some mass crop failures . 1 disease to rule them all . lol .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

You can eliminate all nematodes from a clone by growing the clone as single cells or callus culture in-vitro then regenerate the callus by rooting and shooting. As single cells in a cell culture there is no place for them to hide, I bet some of the labs that check for pathogens have easier ways to eliminate all nematodes from a single clone. Try asking any lab that finds any. You also need to eliminate all soil, clean or trash pots, tools or anything else that could harbor the little beasts. The problem can be fixed.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

If a moderator for this thread wants to post my #23 post as a sticky it might be a good idea. I updated it to include many DUD potential causes.
-SamS

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

You can eliminate all nematodes from a clone by growing the clone as single cells or callus culture in-vitro then regenerate the callus by rooting and shooting. As single cells in a cell culture there is no place for them to hide, I bet some of the labs that check for pathogens have easier ways to eliminate all nematodes from a single clone. Try asking any lab that finds any. You also need to eliminate all soil, clean or trash pots, tools or anything else that could harbor the little beasts. The problem can be fixed.
-SamS

do you think microtip culture would be sufficient. or are you really talking single cells. im attempting a cloning this month using the apical dome emerging meristem cells as they emerge but it wont be single cells but rather fresh emerging undifferentiated clusters.

 

[Loc Dog]

What kind of microscope do you have????

do you think microtip culture would be sufficient. or are you really talking single cells. im attempting a cloning this month using the apical dome emerging meristem cells as they emerge but it wont be single cells but rather fresh emerging undifferentiated clusters.