Droopy leaves - Process of elimination

[bterzz]

Lately I've been having problems with my OG kush lady friends. I've been thinking I've been over-watering because lately when I water they get droopy. I had a friend whom I trust very much come check out my grow. He's very experienced with gardening and has experience with the OG as well.

By the symptoms I was telling him he said it sounds like im over-watering as it is easy to do. I didn't think that was the case as I know how to check for light pots.

My pots got light, so I watered. They looked like they were over-watered dramatically. I let them dry out for like 3 days and my friend comes over to check out the grow.

He says they're starving for water which they were so we make up a new solution and give them some water. @ 6.5 ph in Fox Farm Ocean Forest.

They bounce back a little bit and I go out for the night. I come home and they're droopy.

So, i'm pretty positive its not my nutes, as i have no signs of over-feeding or any signs of deficiencies.

My temps are pretty ideal, no warmer then 80 and RH is about 40%.

What i'm beginning to think is there is some type of crap in my tap water that is making these things lock out or something?

I'm a first time grower and im growing under 1200w (2x600).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I snapped some shots for you guys.
First attachment is when they were starving for water.
Second attachment is about 3 hours after the watering.

I'll go take one of how they look now (less then 18 hours later)

 

[bterzz]

Here is a shot from today (less then 18 hours from the 2nd shot)

And the 2nd photo is from a few days ago

 

[NorCalKind]

How big are the plants? What size containers are they in?

 

[bterzz]

Hi Norcal. They are 3 gallon containers. Plants range from 12-18"

 

[medmaker420]

are they root bound?

if they are not hungry or need water and droopin and won't get out of it they might want more room to grow.

How old are they, how long have they been in those pots? Have you checked the roots on any of them to see if they are bound?

 

[bterzz]

No I havnt checked the roots but there are plenty of holes in the bottom where I would see roots coming out if they were root bound correct?

They have been vegging for over a in those pots but they were off to a super super slow start because I had them on a concrete floor for multiple weeks.

I dont think they're root bound considering ive seen plants bigger then those in a 16 oz cup.

I dont believe in cannabis getting "root" bound, when they slow down growth because the roots fill up the entire grow space its mostly because they're getting a lack of food. But im not really showing any deficiencies. I dunno bro.

 

[20north]

looks like root rot maybe they seem like they cant be stable let them dry out for 2 days and see if you can pull up and check the roots whats the temp? if its hot they will droop maybe your lights are to close i think you probly r over watering is the case

 

[bterzz]

20north did you read the post? Overwatering isnt the issue ive been underwatering there entire life span even though I thought I was over-watering. I think. I may have over-watered once. Maybe you're right but I didnt over-water this last time and they're droopy again.

 

[thebandit777]

i am starting to think that they are root bound, the roots don't neccesarily need to be poking out of the holes to show that they are root bound... I would also flower those out ASAP now, they are well veged and a good size, BUT you will need to trans plant into some 5 gal bags/pots bro, because you will run into some problems in the middle of flowering, (If i remember correctly you put your clones directly into those pits and they have been there since, right?
That is why i always recommend that either the clones go into a Keg cup for 5 days or so, then into your 1 gallon pots for 5-7 days and once rooted well in the 1 gallon put/bags, THEN go into your 3's or 5's... You will build a better root mass and have not much of that blank space in the center of your soil medium... You will see once you harvest that there is gonna be about 40% of soil in the middle of the pot shaped medium clump that has almost no roots on in it... that is because they will go directly to the outsides of the soil(against the inside of the pot) and twine and twine around the pots medium...

If you do in fact have root rot on the other hand, I would use some "Hygrozyme", so you can clean and dissolve the dead/old roots into usable food for the plant or into just medium...and it will clean around your good roots, and give them a fresh start..

I really think you are root Bound though bro, and the reason you don't see any roots where the holes are is b/c what ever roots go there will automatically be "Air Pruned", and you will never see excactly how well rooted you pots are unless you pull the Root zone out of your pots, (Do it carefully) and don't worry about the soil getting on your leaves manit will come off and never affect your plants...

 

[happyherb]

i was going to go with root bound too....had plenty of plants myself gone that way before i could pot them up....happens more with some strains than others..tap one out and have a look...that way if its not..cool...but then theres a chance to see whats going on down there and then go to the next step to what it could be..HH. =]-~

 

[NorCalKind]

I agree with Bandit, check the roots out. Aside from your problem, the plants look healthy but if they've been in those 3 gal containers the whole veg cycle it is a good possibility the roots are suffering. Just think about it this way, when your plants grow, the roots are usually 1 and a 1/2 to 2 times the length of the plant if they have the space to do so.

 

[thebandit777]

YUP check the roots out, and I agree too with Happyherb and Norcalkind, your plants look nice and full, healthy and ready for a 12/12 IMHO....

5 galln grow bags are very inexpensive and they will be perfect for your situation....

 

[bterzz]

Its not the grow-bags that expensive its the 20$ a bag Ocean Forest that's expensive .

To be honest, Ive been having this droopy problem the entire life span..

One of the pots that I watered didnt seem to hold any water and it poured right through the bottom (which makes me think there were no roots to catch the water).

Personally I think the root mass probably SUCKS compared to over-growing the pot. Next time its gonna be a 16oz party cup / 1 gallon / 3 gallon / 5 gallon.
No more cutting corners.

I wanted to flower them today but theyre to sad looking for me to flower.

 

[NorCalKind]

You say only 1 of the pots had a "water retaining problem" of sorts, that sounds like what happens if the soil is too dry or even too damp, maybe too much perlite in the soil, or the soil isn't compacted enough? Idk. Maybe try a different kind of soil next time.

 

[thebandit777]

uhmmmm... Okay so try this them bro, when going to water your girls either get a little bit of wetting agent in your water ex..: Liquid Dish soap, there are some good Organic ones if ya want to go that route, but I use about two-four drops of Dawn Dish soap, if I need to , or I once bought the Earth Juice Brand of wetting agent....

Or you can also use a little Coco Wet...

But when you do water, you wanna go through and pour about 32 oz's in each of the plants and then by the time you get to the last one the first one you did will be nice and moist, and then you go back and water throught them again in the same sequence as you did the first time start from the forst one and go to the last... (this is if your water is just running out of the pots, it means that the soil is too dry...)

If you have 10 plants(example) in 3 gallon pots, and you wanted to trans plant into 5 gallon pots then you would only need two bags of Ocean Forest, b/c after adding the proper anount of Perlite to your OForrest, you should have about 10-12 gallons of soil per bag of Ocean Forrest.. So IMHO an extra $40 bucks is more worth it than growing those beautiful gals in a root bound POT.... I really reccomend that you transplant, how big and strong those gals look they have to be root bound by now, and if they aren't root bound they do need to be transplanted, I ASSURE YOU, THAT YOU WILL FIX THAT PROBLEM, AND SEE A MAJOR CHANGE IN THEIR ATTITUDE IN THE MATTER OF A DAY OR TWO, ALSO WHEN TRANSPLANTED YA WANNA GIVE THEM SOME VITAMIN B1 TO HELP THEM GET GOING, AND SOME "SUBCULTURE B AND SUBCULTURE M" SHOULD BE GOOD FOR THE ROOT'S' HEALTH AND THEY WILL BOUNCE RIGHT OUT OF THAT POOPY ATTITUDE THEY'RE GIVING YA.....

Have you checked a couple of them yet bro? I really think you should atleast check 2 of them... Randomly...

Because I know that when plants get root bound they do tend to pour out the water and not absorb it... It's no joke bro, please check those Feet on your gals... Give them some Vitamin B1 ASAP and Maybe a little Superthrive the next time, and FLower them out, I know you don't like the sad theylook, but it's totally time to Bloom....

BLESSINGS AND HARMONY

 

[bterzz]

Hey guys thanks for the responses. I know this may sound crazy but I think they just might be DIEING to GET FLOWERED.

Before I started running into these problems I gave them some Fox Farm Open Sesame, like they say to on your feeding schedule. There is tons of new growth and the nodes are nice and tight. They are curling crazily but they seem to straighten out for the first part of lights-on. Towards the end of there "lights-on" cycle they're all sad again.

Transplanting might be a problem because of this. I gave them there first dose of bloom nutes yesterday and they probably shouldnt wait any longer.

Im going to cut one open. If its extremely rootbound im going to transplant tomorrow and flower in a couple days. Kinda sucks my feeding schedule is getting messed up.

 

[bterzz]

So here is what the bottom looks like.

To be honest I think they're needing a lot more water then im giving them. I also think the top of the soil is more moist then the bottom.

 

[DryAndHigh]

okay, I know it's sometimes hard to listen to what people are saying, but bandit is right..... regardless of whether your current problem is because of rootboundness or not (and I think it is)you need to repot.. I remember responding to your post ~2 weeks ago where you said they were in these same containers and had been "vegging very long time. 1 month I think."

so they have been in these pots at least 6 weeks.. there's no way I'd want them to spend another 9 in the same space. I have a feeling transplanting will take care of this problem too; either way, it has to be done before you flower.. imo.. note - I thought this 2 weeks ago too, which is why I asked you if you planned on flowering in those pots.

oh also you said in yer other post that they were stunted and then took off.. I think what you saw had more to do w/ putting clones into 3 gallon pots, and not the fact that they were on a cold floor.. I also think bandit is right about the center of your soil being empty of roots because you transferred straight into a 3 gallon container w/ clones..

edit - I also don't understand why you're so concerned w/ the feeding schedule.. There's no secret w/ FF's charts.. Cannabis needs certain nutrients at certain times. Simple as that.

also, you have to stop over thinking things.. if your plants show the same symptoms when your friend says they are overwatered & underwatered, then why would you attribute your problem to watering? finally, looking at that last picture I agree w/ bandit again: perlite is your friend

 

[bterzz]

okay, I know it's sometimes hard to listen to what people are saying, but bandit is right..... regardless of whether your current problem is because of rootboundness or not (and I think it is)you need to repot.. I remember responding to your post ~2 weeks ago where you said they were in these same containers and had been "vegging very long time. 1 month I think."

so they have been in these pots at least 6 weeks.. there's no way I'd want them to spend another 9 in the same space. I have a feeling transplanting will take care of this problem too; either way, it has to be done before you flower.. imo.. note - I thought this 2 weeks ago too, which is why I asked you if you planned on flowering in those pots.

oh also you said in yer other post that they were stunted and then took off.. I think what you saw had more to do w/ putting clones into 3 gallon pots, and not the fact that they were on a cold floor.. I also think bandit is right about the center of your soil being empty of roots because you transferred straight into a 3 gallon container w/ clones..

edit - I also don't understand why you're so concerned w/ the feeding schedule.. There's no secret w/ FF's charts.. Cannabis needs certain nutrients at certain times. Simple as that.

also, you have to stop over thinking things.. if your plants show the same symptoms when your friend says they are overwatered & underwatered, then why would you attribute your problem to watering? finally, looking at that last picture I agree w/ bandit again: perlite is your friend

Hey thanks for the response.
I do agree with Bandit about the re-pot. I plan on getting some soil tomorrow as well as some 5 gallon buckets and even some more perlite. I will transplant tomorrow even though I think my Hydro store closes.

I know that the plants being more established in the pots had something to do with them taking over, but my cold concrete floor was not helping matters at all.

This is my first grow and I already came to the conclusion of more perlite next time. The plants have been showing stress for awhile (droopyness) and this was long before the plants out-grew the pots. Judging by my rootball I'd say my watering techniques werent too far off gaurd either.

ALSO, I understand the fox farm schedule is meant for the plant at different stages in its life. Im following the schedule to the T, but due to the stress I dont want to throw them into 12/12. I prepared for flower by adding some Open Sesame 1 week before (as scheduled on the schedule), but now im going to be late throwing it into 12/12 due to transplant, etc.. im wondering how bad this is gonna additionally stress my plant, OR if I already have started to stress my plant with the Open Sesame.

 

[DryAndHigh]

ALSO, I understand the fox farm schedule is meant for the plant at different stages in its life. Im following the schedule to the T, but due to the stress I dont want to throw them into 12/12. I prepared for flower by adding some Open Sesame 1 week before (as scheduled on the schedule), but now im going to be late throwing it into 12/12 due to transplant, etc.. im wondering how bad this is gonna additionally stress my plant, OR if I already have started to stress my plant with the Open Sesame.

short answer: not bad enough to keep you from flowering those plants.. I just checked out their feeding schedule after reading your post though.. great marketing by FF.. anyways, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but open sesame does not magically bring your indoor plants into bloom at your command.. that's a job for 12/12.. (i know you know this, just making fun of their product description)

**someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my limited understanding** open sesame is a high P fert.. and I wouldn't think much stress would result from a high P source in veg as long as it doesn't throw any other nutrient off. I'd be more inclined to think the plants would simply take what they need(in this example w/ your medium), as they don't need huge amounts in veg.

I'm not an expert & I'm still learning (who isn't?), but I do know that you have to change the way you think about things.. I can say this confidently because I was you a couple of months ago... You have to move away from asking unquantifiable questions, like 'how much stress will this cause' etc.. Instead start looking at what your giving your plants (NPK ratios & anything else), how they react to these certain elements, how to fix certain deficiencies & with what, what elements in excess lock out others (can be found in stich's thread at the top of this forum.. look for high P levels) etc.. not criticizing, just food for though. your plants look great overall and I'm glad you listed to bandit and everyone else about repotting.. and I can't wait to see those babies throwing pistols. good luck