IMO the OEM reflectors are to small. Remember these where made for green houses so the reflector play's a small role in that environment.
Double ended bulbs and reflectors
- Thread starter nachoconqueso
- Start date
tokinblackguy
Active member
Has anyone looked into the Ushio Super HPS DE bulb? The data sheet on it states it operates at 400V just like the Phillips bulb. However it doesn't specify that it has to be used with a Gavita or E-P ballast but rather any S52- e ballast. This peeked my interest because I'm in the market for new ballast and bulbs and wanted to go DE but things like height requirement and cost are swaying my decision to just pickup a quality e-ballast and bulb setup.
I've seen Purple Frostbyte mention his Solis Tek didn't burn the Phillips properly or eas efficiently I should say. This is pretty much backed up by a conversation I had with a store rep that stated to me the Solis Tek wouldn't even light the Phillips DE for him when he tested. Ironically though, same store has published a DE vs HPS test in which a Galaxy digi was used to light a Phillips DE and the PAR readings were better than Gavita or E-P. Granted, they used a different hood, but the point is that the Galaxy ballast could indeed light and run the Phillips DE. I should mention that the store rep could not give any insight as to long term effects of the bulb or ballast, simply that it worked properly during the duration of the test.
On the other hand, if the Ushio bulb offers equal/similar performance and can also be run on a quality digi, I may still go this route. I've seen the Gavita hoods for around 90-$110. Add the Ushio at around $100 and ballast ~ $200 and theoretically, a decent DE setup can be had in the $400 range. Saving about $100 bucks. Maybe I can email or call Ushio and find out if they recommend any ballast?
I've seen Purple Frostbyte mention his Solis Tek didn't burn the Phillips properly or eas efficiently I should say. This is pretty much backed up by a conversation I had with a store rep that stated to me the Solis Tek wouldn't even light the Phillips DE for him when he tested. Ironically though, same store has published a DE vs HPS test in which a Galaxy digi was used to light a Phillips DE and the PAR readings were better than Gavita or E-P. Granted, they used a different hood, but the point is that the Galaxy ballast could indeed light and run the Phillips DE. I should mention that the store rep could not give any insight as to long term effects of the bulb or ballast, simply that it worked properly during the duration of the test.
On the other hand, if the Ushio bulb offers equal/similar performance and can also be run on a quality digi, I may still go this route. I've seen the Gavita hoods for around 90-$110. Add the Ushio at around $100 and ballast ~ $200 and theoretically, a decent DE setup can be had in the $400 range. Saving about $100 bucks. Maybe I can email or call Ushio and find out if they recommend any ballast?
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
I just installed 3 AC/DE hoods with the Ushio HPS bulbs. Insane, in a word. It's like walking on the sun. Makes my old Ushio SE look like 400's
BubbaBear
Active member
How are those Solis tek working out with the DE bulbs? Any issues with flickering?
BubbaBear
Active member
How much more heat do the AC/DEs give off compaired to a standard air cooled 1000w hps? How high do you have to keep them off the canopy?
I'm close to grabbing some DE light to replace my setup. Trying to decide if my plan will work. I currently have 4 lights, 2 radiant reflectors and 2 daystar. My ceiling is only about 7 ft. I already have to train a lot of strains to keep them short. My room is divided into 2, 4x8 spaces with just enough room to get all the way around and about 18 inch hallway down the center. I'm thinking buying 2 light rails and 4 motors. Switching from air cooled to grow wings and putting a light on the last 2 ft of both rails. This should increase my light coverage about 10 x 10 and instead of 2 4 x8s. Only disatavantage is I'll be crawling inbetween plants to water.
Is 2 ft back and forth enough to get the canopy a little closer to a DE bulb, say 12-15. inches? From what I gather this should greatly improve yield while having little effect on my power bill.
Is 2 ft back and forth enough to get the canopy a little closer to a DE bulb, say 12-15. inches? From what I gather this should greatly improve yield while having little effect on my power bill.
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
I'm still working on the height of the hoods. Being that its fairly new to me, I'm being safe and I'm at 30 inches atm.
I can't really answer your heat question because my room has been completely re-done. So I can't compare. But, I would venture to guess that there's a difference because the DE bulbs have to run hotter.
If your already fighting height DE would not be a wise choice.
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
The heat is not noticeably different.
I'm having success at 20 inches from canopy. Which was my biggest concern going into the double end market.
At 20 inches I'm getting 1200x100 on my lux meter or 1300x10 on FC. I just ran down there and got these numbers. This is my second run on these bulbs.
Hope this helps
A big aspect of why I personally think dual ended bulbs from Philips specifically are the bees knees is the fact they use quartz glass, which is more optically clear than most other bulb manufactures.
The arc tube of a double-ended lamp is housed in quartz glass, which increases the UV content of the lamp, thus resulting in improved plant yields. Additionally, since the lamp is fired from both ends simultaneously, the gasses burn more evenly, increasing the PAR value and resulting in a better overall light spectrum and higher output.
The arc tube of a double-ended lamp is housed in quartz glass, which increases the UV content of the lamp, thus resulting in improved plant yields. Additionally, since the lamp is fired from both ends simultaneously, the gasses burn more evenly, increasing the PAR value and resulting in a better overall light spectrum and higher output.
TheyCallMeJJay
Member
I'm looking into purchasing more ballast. Solis Tek appears to pop up quite a bit.
BubbaBear
Active member
Is anyone running a AC/DE reflector with a Gavita 600/750 flex DE bulb? On the box of the AC/DE it says its for 1000w HPS DE only. Im assuming the 750w gavita DE is smaller than a 1000w DE bulb, so it wouldnt fit in a AC/DE? Id really like to run a AC/DE reflector with a gavita 750DE bulb and a remote solis tek matrix SE/DE ballast. I'm kinda suprised the AC/DE reflector is still the only legit air cooled DE reflector out and how long the technology is taking to take off. Or is there a 750w DE air cooled reflector out that I dont know about?
mikeross
Member
So the foot print of the ac/de with a 1000w is 4x6? I am planning a 3 light rooms originally planned to run 3 4x4 tables giving me a 4x12 footprint.
If I run de bulbs I should run 4 3x6 tables giving me a 6x12 footprint?
Can anyone with real world experience confirm a 4x6 foot print. Planning a sog grow but want to ensure if I go with 6' wide tables with small plants that the outside plants will not be of poor quality.
All testing of these DE bulbs always seems to be on a 4x4 area.
Regards....
If I run de bulbs I should run 4 3x6 tables giving me a 6x12 footprint?
Can anyone with real world experience confirm a 4x6 foot print. Planning a sog grow but want to ensure if I go with 6' wide tables with small plants that the outside plants will not be of poor quality.
All testing of these DE bulbs always seems to be on a 4x4 area.
Regards....
You guys should definitely know by now that there are several low height options available for these bulbs. As well as air cooled hoods. Many different companies make them.
BubbaBear
Active member
Bizzzump..... im still looking for the answer to this one.... anyone running a AC/DE reflector with a Gavita 600/750 flex DE bulb? On the box of the AC/DE it says its for 1000w HPS DE only. Im assuming the 750w gavita DE is smaller than a 1000w DE bulb, so it wouldnt fit in a AC/DE? Id really like to run a AC/DE reflector with a gavita 750DE bulb and a remote solis tek matrix SE/DE ballast. I'm kinda suprised the AC/DE reflector is still the only legit air cooled DE reflector out and how long the technology is taking to take off. Or is there a 750w DE air cooled reflector out that I dont know about?
Hydrofarm has an aircooled option as well
rockdustyelbows
New member
From what I understand, the reason you shouldn't air cool them is because they are filled with some type of gas that will react negatively to it, in regards to the plant. You basicly dont want wind blowing on it either, so dont have any fans on it even if its not air cooled. It will cause it to flicker, which of coarse will cause stress to the plant, and im sure we all know what that can cause.
I just made the swap into de's this summer. One spot has 2 750w gravitas + 1 1000w gravita, and another spot has all 1000w luminars. All are running with the stock unvented hoods in rooms without ac, just air in/out.
The heat in the summer was high, mid 80s, but still manageable with good results. Now that the summer is over the rooms are fine staying in the mid 70s.
The manuals for these fixtures say 30" from canopy for the 750s, and 40" for the 1000s. I try to maintain those heights by watching strings I hung from each fixture at the appropriate lengths. I have let the plants grow up 6" past the strings, so 34"ish for the 1000w without any ill effects except for the odd plant or two that are the tallest. These bulbs to put off a lot of heat and you can feel it if placing your hand under the light.
I have them over a 63"x63" area each.. so just over 5' square and it works well. I do have a couple staggler plants in the outter area that still do well, so I suppose a 6'x6' area could work but you'd be losing cross light effect from the fixture that may not be worth it.
I like the luminars better though, just because the controller is nicer with a touch screen. The gravita controller does have one option the luminar doesn't though... it has a high heat safety feature that will dim your lights when the temps reach your set point and also will turn them off if temps reach your separate shut off set point. The luminar just has one set point for shutting the lights down at high temps but no dimming set point.
My ceilings are 8.5 feet and it is barely enough room, shorter ceilings would only work if you had plants that stayed short
And for price... these light increased production significantly and paid for themselves on the 1st run. I am very happy I made the investment to switch from the SE bulbs I had been using.
The heat in the summer was high, mid 80s, but still manageable with good results. Now that the summer is over the rooms are fine staying in the mid 70s.
The manuals for these fixtures say 30" from canopy for the 750s, and 40" for the 1000s. I try to maintain those heights by watching strings I hung from each fixture at the appropriate lengths. I have let the plants grow up 6" past the strings, so 34"ish for the 1000w without any ill effects except for the odd plant or two that are the tallest. These bulbs to put off a lot of heat and you can feel it if placing your hand under the light.
I have them over a 63"x63" area each.. so just over 5' square and it works well. I do have a couple staggler plants in the outter area that still do well, so I suppose a 6'x6' area could work but you'd be losing cross light effect from the fixture that may not be worth it.
I like the luminars better though, just because the controller is nicer with a touch screen. The gravita controller does have one option the luminar doesn't though... it has a high heat safety feature that will dim your lights when the temps reach your set point and also will turn them off if temps reach your separate shut off set point. The luminar just has one set point for shutting the lights down at high temps but no dimming set point.
My ceilings are 8.5 feet and it is barely enough room, shorter ceilings would only work if you had plants that stayed short
And for price... these light increased production significantly and paid for themselves on the 1st run. I am very happy I made the investment to switch from the SE bulbs I had been using.
