Dormgrow G8 900Watt

[GodsCronik]

My friend... You must be smoked some bad a** weed right after you destroyed your crop or something....


You start of saying that im lazy and want others to find my answer, then u RIGHT AFTER say that u bought the blackstar because the reason where that others had sucessfully grow with blackstar... That some funky smelling sentence bro.

I wont even address the rest of that ramble. But these two parts I will. I smoked great herb right before posting that, that I grew with the LED panel that I researched purchased and use.

Yes, you are lazy. you want others to tell you what to buy, probably so when you fuck up growing you can tell all your boys it was someone elses fault for telling you to buy the wrong light

I FOUND THE PEOPLE USING BLACKSTAR LIGHT WITH GOOGLE NOT A PATHETIC "PLEASE SPOONFEED" ME THREAD.

does that help?

 

[DoomsDay]

And people wonder why threads now a days are fucking useless. The days of important informative threads are gone. Now we have ass hats like the op that, as stated above, would rather be spoon fed so they are able to blame someone else..

How about this op, shoot me your address, I'll swing by and pick up any equipment you already have as it will obviously be wasted if used by you, and we can all move on with our lives, you remain ignorant, let those of us that enjoy growing for the challenge continue. I'll even pinch you my sacks every now and then so you can claim to your friends that your equipment put out some killer buds... as we all know it's the equipment used and not the skill.... right....

 

[Mikell]

Isent that exaclly what we have this friendly community for?
Helping each others out, having the others backs telling them what to stay far away from and whats the king of the crop?

So negative energy.

Im going for the Lumigrow pro 650.

Eh, I'm definitely not a part of the welcoming committee. There is a high asshole ratio on IC, but at the same time it keeps out the children that run rampant on other forums. There are also a fair number of people looking to be spoonfed information (not really a reference to you, there are far worse examples) and I can understand GodsCronik's reaction.

I'm not really.. in complete agreement with the harsh replies that followed, but some comments are on point and I still stand by what I said.

My apologies for contributing to the negative reception. A little less attitude and a little more positive energy around here would be helpful

 

[CHEFfy]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6727632#post6727632

Take a look at the last few pages of this thread... Seems very promising.

 

[CHEFfy]

Link to the unit in question:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261323948745?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[SirStynkalot]

If you don't like the way professional drug manufacturers talk to each other then maybe you should go to the vaginitis support group next door dude...

You want knowledge some of us paid out the ass for. When your the apprentice in this industry it means sucking off the journeymen. You think we spend umpty bajillion hours a week in our basements or shell houses or whatever because we LIKE other people? FUCK no. And in my opinion a real apprenticeship takes at least 2 years, so get out your kneepads! If you buy that light I promise you'll need em.

I'm usually happy to share my experience and research. My price on that knowledge is a small amount of verbal abuse. Most would call that a pretty fair trade for what you're asking. Gotta keep the big picture in mind here.

And a happy New Year to all my fellow ICmaggers! May we all make it another year on this side of the bars.

 

[Mikell]

Vaginitis support group

I would give you rep if I could, but I'm trapped on the floor wrestling with these vaginapants.

 

[SirStynkalot]

Hahahaha touche, good sir. The rep whore in me has been duly instructed. Yes yes positivity is good. Good vibes everywhere.

Except on New Years day when I just drank my weight.

 

[Green Squall]

Not one single person have an answer to this company ???

I ordered the 240 watter and it arrived in 2 days.

The customer service is also top notch.

 

[xavier7995]

The led panels company name is the cleaver guys named their brand to dormgrow... How smart is that, haha.

peace

Well I sure feel silly.

Glad to see some people having luck with LED. I looked into it a while back (like years) and the technology just wasn't there yet to compete with HPS lighting. May have to give it another look as it really really seems promising. Growing a bit larger now, but if you have to go stealth it has all you want in a light and if going big the lower electricity bills would be pretty swell. Startup costs still seem a bit high, but i have a feeling you would make that back pretty quickly in energy savings and not having to replace bulbs as often.

 

[SirStynkalot]

I'm feeling better and would like to translate the study I linked as I best understand it, if that helps any. Welcome to Stynky's Wall-O-Text. Feel free to ask for more information on any specific area. I'm about twelve beers deep so my recall on shit is probably not 100%, but I'd love to discuss and compare findings with other "lednerds."

The value you want to look at assuming you don't care about fixture cost is on the... fifth or sixth graphic attached to the study I linked. It is the watt to photon conversion ratios within the PAR region. The highest performers for that category were LSG and Spydr. That and input wattage are the values that makes us money. Basically the ratios of spectra on all of the fixtures tested were probably roughly accurate for effective growth of cannabis... the six on the list I checked out, anyway. I probably shouldn't quote exact ratios since I've seen some privileged information I agreed not to share, but you can find general ideas of effective ratios on the internet if you look hard enough. Still, for the ones I checked out there were Single digit percentage differences in claimed spectral ratios based on manufacturer specs. That's it. It's no mystery - those graphs are established with well tested scholarly data from university studies. McCree Curve and peak light levels for stomatal conductance and flower development for subtropical C3-pathway flora (blue and red, respectively). The white, UV, and IR fills in for processes that aren't directly related to photosynthesis (photomorphogenesis and resin development). Pot has a lot of similarities to spinach and tomatoes and fuckall else when you get down to a cellular level. The companies know whose information to copy and paste into their advertising pitches, if nothing else.

So. Very little difference in the claimed ratio of spectra that the fixtures put out. There are two or three other things that most people who've studied these things from the grower end agree on - quality of components makes a difference (diode especially), input wattage and how the power is used within the fixture makes a difference, and general design of the fixture makes a difference depending on who you talk to. Also, keep in mind when you're evaluating the benefits of "white" spectrum lights, there is no such thing as white. White LED diodes release a combination of red, blue, and green light that appears "white" to the human eye, but white is a combination of multiple colors rather than its own color. That is why white is judged on a "color temperature" scale instead of at a given nanometer range.

The first part is component quality, especially diodes. Quality control is roughly defined as "performing within specific tolerances" for our purposes. Plants respond best to spectra within very narrow limits and those spectra need to generally stay within those limits over time to elicit the proper photosynthetic response. Current quality control standards for lighting technology are based on human vision which is way, way looser than "peak photosystem-I blah blah blah" is.

If you test these things with ungodly expensive equipment that I don't own, my understanding is that cheaper diodes vary by a wide enough margin from what the manufacturer claims they can do that they're basically useless for our purposes. Also, the power supply, materials used in manufacturing the chip board for the diodes and wiring and whatever else turn small amounts of electricity into heat. Each one is only a minor loss ideally, but, again, component quality varies. You want to verify that the company is using metal plated circuit boards (more resistant to degradation from heat) to attach all their diodes to. You may also want to verify the quality of their circuit boards. I just use wholesale price for that standard and don't know what the best is. If someone could inform me or point me to a reference for spectral purity degradation rates over time based on chip components or whatever the damned terms are, I'd be eternally grateful, but my best current knowledge is that those values are considered intellectual property by most LED manufacturers. Good luck getting them. I've had a hell of a time and I'm just trying to buy the damned things.

So, long story short, if the manufacturer is using cheap parts the fixture is probably going to be no good. Acceptable tolerances for horticultural uses are much tighter than for general lighting uses and that's what all the regulations are based off of.

Input wattage makes a difference based off of a long, complicated math fomula for the number of photons hitting the plant within certain narrow spectral ranges. A good rule of thumb is that more watts equal more bud, but if you want to get a general idea of the watt-to-bud ratio you have to create a mathematical formula for how the fixture converts watts to photons and what "color" those photons are based on every scrap of info you can pull on the fixture. Small differences mean big returns in our industry, where light is the controlling variable and our profit margins are measure by gram of output instead of by ton.

The final part is general fixture design. This is an application of the KISS method (keep it simple, stupid). LED fixtures in general rely on every component working perfectly. The more components there are, the more components can fail. If one diode goes out, the whole line goes out. If one fan goes out, the unit will be operating at an internal temperature that is higher than it was designed to. It will slowly melt itself from the inside out, and the only way you'll realize it if you don't catch the fan malfunction is by reduced crop sizes. The less there is that can fail without you catching it, the less chance there is that one of your crops will pull less than it should based on all the work you put in in other areas of your grow.

Hydro, soil, organic, synthetic, pesticide free, CO2 injection, and all that other bullshit is dependent on light. It's hard to get light in a closed building and for the vast majority of grow ops the plants will only grow as fast as the available light allows. That's what "most limiting variable" means. If you switch from HIDs to LEDs or induction or plasma or whatever the fuck else, you are DIRECTLY FUCKING WITH YOUR BOTTOM LINE. That's all there is to it. It's MUCH, MUCH easier to stick to HPS or CMH lights and fuck with all the other variables than it is to switch to LEDs. HIDs have been proven. LEDs are barely researched and there are literally thousands of hucksters stealing half of their competitors' research and trying to reverse engineer fixtures to get another buck out of stupid asses who are willing to grow in their dorm rooms. If you want bang for your buck, you need to become an "lednerd."

The fifth or sixth graph on the study I linked will answer the OP's questions. That was a sample of, like, 8 fixtures out of thousands. Do with it what you will, but each of the fixtures mentioned in that study are overpriced. I think they're passing the costs of R&D in a new industry on to their consumers. What I'm doing is studying the fuck out of LEDs and trying to find an American asshole contracted to a Chinese sweatshop who stole the most recent copy of someone else's research. That's what this boils down to, DormGrow Deluxe whatever fixtures included. Very, very few manufacturers can claim they're anything different. Its how I'm going to get the best bang for the buck, but it has been a miserable headache and I would have just forked out up front if I knew at the start what I know now. If I were starting over I'd have budgeted differently and made sure I could afford well tested LEDs from the start. I just took too long to study up on LEDs to my satisfaction to have that luxury.

If you won't put in that level of effort, look at the study I gave and pick one that has similar watt-to-ueinsteins (the term for whatever that value is) within peaks for photosynthetic response as Gavitas. That information is probably good. It was well researched and had to pass through a lot of hoops to hit the general public. It's probably pretty accurate given the researchers' assumptions and testing parameters. Better yet, find a similar study, work with that, and then report your results back to ICmag! That's what this is supposed to be about.

But, back to point, HIDs pull a lot higher wattage than LEDs, so if you get an LED that has the same watt-to-par efficiency as HIDs, you'll probably end up with a decent amount of bud if you plug in enough lights and rig their footprints correctly. Gavitas pull 1150 watts if I remember correctly and LEDs tend to claim to pull about 700 watts to cover the same canopy. If their power to usable light conversion ratios are the same as HIDs though then that claim is bullshit.

Also, don't count your chickens before they hatch. Growing is hard. Really hard. Assume nothing, try your ass off, learn from your mistakes, and all the rest of that motivational bullshit. This is meant as a theoretical discussion and not a practical discussion or recommendation of a fixture you should spend YOUR hard earned cash on. Beware of anyone on these internet forums who are claiming otherwise. Here's looking at you, Lush. Wanna know another name for ICmag? Free targeted advertising to a market segment that generally has a lot of cash and a low level of formal education. Harsh but true. Don't get taken advantage of.

If others have made a study of these things I'd LOVE responses. Please please please tell me where I'm wrong.

 

[kollos]

I totally misst this text earlier im sorry.

I dont know what to reply to all this, thanks alot for all your time. Read it several times and putting it on the memory.

You should get a work as a researcher or something. Increadible

 

[rives]

Excellent summation of the "state of reality" if not "state of the art", Stinky!

 

[AAinAA]

I'm feeling better and would like to translate the study I linked as I best understand it, if that helps any. Welcome to Stynky's Wall-O-Text. Feel free to ask for more information on any specific area. I'm about twelve beers deep so my recall on shit is probably not 100%, but I'd love to discuss and compare findings with other "lednerds."

The value you want to look at assuming you don't care about fixture cost is on the... fifth or sixth graphic attached to the study I linked. It is the watt to photon conversion ratios within the PAR region. The highest performers for that category were LSG and Spydr. That and input wattage are the values that makes us money. Basically the ratios of spectra on all of the fixtures tested were probably roughly accurate for effective growth of cannabis... the six on the list I checked out, anyway. I probably shouldn't quote exact ratios since I've seen some privileged information I agreed not to share, but you can find general ideas of effective ratios on the internet if you look hard enough. Still, for the ones I checked out there were Single digit percentage differences in claimed spectral ratios based on manufacturer specs. That's it. It's no mystery - those graphs are established with well tested scholarly data from university studies. McCree Curve and peak light levels for stomatal conductance and flower development for subtropical C3-pathway fauna (blue and red, respectively). The white, UV, and IR fills in for processes that aren't directly related to flower development. Resin development in particular is heavily affected by UV-B light. Pot has a lot of similarities to spinach and tomatoes and fuckall else when you get down to a cellular level. The companies know whose information to copy and paste into their advertising pitches, if nothing else.

So. Very little difference in the claimed ratio of spectra that the fixtures put out. There are two or three other things that most people who've studied these things from the grower end agree on - quality of components makes a difference (diode especially), input wattage and how the power is used within the fixture makes a difference, and general design of the fixture makes a difference depending on who you talk to. Also, keep in mind when you're evaluating the benefits of "white" spectrum lights, there is no such thing as white. White LED diodes release a combination of red, blue, and green light that appears "white" to the human eye, but white is a combination of multiple colors rather than its own color. That is why white is judged on a "color temperature" scale instead of at a given nanometer range.

The first part is component quality, especially diodes. Quality control is roughly defined as "performing within specific tolerances" for our purposes. Plants respond best to spectra within very narrow limits and those spectra need to generally stay within those limits over time to elicit the proper photosynthetic response. Current quality control standards for lighting technology are based on human vision which is way, way looser than "peak photosystem-I blah blah blah" is.

If you test these things with ungodly expensive equipment that I don't own, my understanding is that cheaper diodes vary by a wide enough margin from what the manufacturer claims they can do that they're basically useless for our purposes. Also, the power supply, materials used in manufacturing the chip board for the diodes and wiring and whatever else turn small amounts of electricity into heat. Each one is only a minor loss ideally, but, again, component quality varies. You want to verify that the company is using metal plated circuit boards (more resistant to degradation from heat) to attach all their diodes to. You may also want to verify the quality of their circuit boards. I just use wholesale price for that standard and don't know what the best is. If someone could inform me or point me to a reference for spectral purity degradation rates over time based on chip components or whatever the damned terms are, I'd be eternally grateful, but my best current knowledge is that those values are considered intellectual property by most LED manufacturers. Good luck getting them. I've had a hell of a time and I'm just trying to buy the damned things.

So, long story short, if the manufacturer is using cheap parts the fixture is probably going to be no good. Acceptable tolerances for horticultural uses are much tighter than for general lighting uses and that's what all the regulations are based off of.

Input wattage makes a difference based off of a long, complicated math fomula for the number of photons hitting the plant within certain narrow spectral ranges. A good rule of thumb is that more watts equal more bud, but if you want to get a general idea of the watt-to-bud ratio you have to create a mathematical formula for how the fixture converts watts to photons and what "color" those photons are based on every scrap of info you can pull on the fixture. Small differences mean big returns in our industry, where light is the controlling variable and our profit margins are measure by gram of output instead of by ton.

The final part is general fixture design. This is an application of the KISS method (keep it simple, stupid). LED fixtures in general rely on every component working perfectly. The more components there are, the more components can fail. If one diode goes out, the whole line goes out. If one fan goes out, the unit will be operating at an internal temperature that is higher than it was designed to. It will slowly melt itself from the inside out, and the only way you'll realize it if you don't catch the fan malfunction is by reduced crop sizes. The less there is that can fail without you catching it, the less chance there is that one of your crops will pull less than it should based on all the work you put in in other areas of your grow.

Hydro, soil, organic, synthetic, pesticide free, CO2 injection, and all that other bullshit is dependent on light. It's hard to get light in a closed building and for the vast majority of grow ops the plants will only grow as fast as the available light allows. That's what "most limiting variable" means. If you switch from HIDs to LEDs or induction or plasma or whatever the fuck else, you are DIRECTLY FUCKING WITH YOUR BOTTOM LINE. That's all there is to it. It's MUCH, MUCH easier to stick to HPS or CMH lights and fuck with all the other variables than it is to switch to LEDs. HIDs have been proven. LEDs are barely researched and there are literally thousands of hucksters stealing half of their competitors' research and trying to reverse engineer fixtures to get another buck out of stupid asses who are willing to grow in their dorm rooms. If you want bang for your buck, you need to become an "lednerd."

The fifth or sixth graph on the study I linked will answer the OP's questions. That was a sample of, like, 8 fixtures out of thousands. Do with it what you will, but each of the fixtures mentioned in that study are overpriced. I think they're passing the costs of R&D in a new industry on to their consumers. What I'm doing is studying the fuck out of LEDs and trying to find an American asshole contracted to a Chinese sweatshop who stole the most recent copy of someone else's research. That's what this boils down to, DormGrow Deluxe whatever fixtures included. Very, very few manufacturers can claim they're anything different. Its how I'm going to get the best bang for the buck, but it has been a miserable headache and I would have just forked out up front if I knew at the start what I know now. If I were starting over I'd have budgeted differently and made sure I could afford well tested LEDs from the start. I just took to long to study up on LEDs to my satisfaction to have that luxury.

If you won't put in that level of effort, look at the study I gave and pick one that has similar watt-to-lumen within the PAR region as Gavitas. That information is probably good. It was well researched and had to pass through a lot of hoops to hit the general public. It's probably pretty accurate given the researchers' assumptions and testing parameters. Better yet, find a similar study, work with that, and then report your results back to ICmag! That's what this is supposed to be about.

But, back to point, HIDs pull a lot higher wattage than LEDs, so if you get an LED that has the same watt-to-par efficiency as HIDs, you'll probably end up with a decent amount of bud if you plug in enough lights. Gavitas pull 1150 watts if I remember correctly and LEDs tend to claim to pull about 700 watts to cover the same canopy. If their power to usable light conversion ratios are the same as HIDs though then that claim is bullshit.

Also, don't count your chickens before they hatch. Growing is hard. Really hard. Assume nothing, try your ass off, learn from your mistakes, and all the rest of that motivational bullshit. This is meant as a theoretical discussion and not a practical discussion or recommendation of a fixture you should spend YOUR hard earned cash on. Beware of anyone on these internet forums who are claiming otherwise. Here's looking at you, Lush. Wanna know another name for ICmag? Free targeted advertising to a market segment that generally has a lot of cash and a low level of formal education. Harsh but true. Don't get taken advantage of.

If others have made a study of these things I'd LOVE responses. Please please please tell me where I'm wrong.

Great article. I friended you after reading your posts on lushs thread. I noticed she sidestepped your questions and attacked your sources while not revealing hers. SKETCHY!

 

[SirStynkalot]

Yeah... I bite my tongue till it bleeds every time Ms. Lush steps up to the keyboard... I don't want to shit on anyone's business, but the level of misinformation is staggering and she's going around throwing up the exact same thread on every weed growing forum she can find. I think it's offensive and rather unhelpful to the growing community at large, but hey, it seems to be working for her.

And thanks for the kind words you guys! Unfortunately a career in research is out for me. I just share for funsies instead of profit. I like it better this way anyway.

 

[redlaser]

Thanks for taking the time to research and post this Sir, very helpful and timely.

 

[OttawaGreen]

I would reccomend the eshine systems 150x3w 3G panels i have but I have not tried the one you asked about

 

[Dion]

http://www.illumitex.com/shop-led-g...a&utm_medium=extension&utm_campaign=extension