Does anyone know where to find cheap pumice/lava rock online?

[EclipseFour20]

So basically if you remain a stable pH above 5, lava rock won't pose that risk? Am I right here? If so, it shouldn't be of concern when used in a soil setting where pH swings between 6.0-7.0

That's is how I interpret it...but the wild card is--if those heavy metals (and others?) are part of the lava rock, then they are now part of the grow medium that potentially can become "plant available"...under the right conditions--like low pH.

Now...it is my understanding the rhizophere "soil pH" can be 1-2 points greater/lower than the soil pH (potential "right condition"); couple that with ability of cannabis to suck up heavy metals like a sponge (think phytoremediation at Chernobyl where cannabis plants were used to "clean" the contaminated soil)....once has to ask themselves, "is the risk worth the reward?". Reward is what...aeration? Hmmmm. Lots of alternatives to pick from...but to each his own.

Sunflowers and cannabis are unique plants that can remove heavy metals from contaminated soils all by themselves; plant seeds, plants grow and extract heavy metals from the soil, remove dead plant material, and repeat process for a few seasons and eventually the soil will be "clean"...so goes the saga of "phytoremediation".

 

[Team Microbe]

If I were after solely aeration then I would be using perlite since it's the cheapest, but I'm after microbial colonies and lava rock has great crevices for harboring microbes I've heard. I feel like the risk is worth the reward, because with those extra herds of microbes you'll only gain stability in pH I feel like.

Unless you can provide me with something non-anecdotal I've gotta trust the majority of the community on this one. You bring up good points, but I've yet to hear about the dangers of lava rock until now. If people were having bad tasting smoke even after curing correctly from lava rock mixes, I'd begin to source for some perlite but I haven't (yet). You don't have any additional sources backing your theory up, do you? Don't take my hesitancy the wrong way btw, I'm glad you brought all of this up about pumice and lava rock because I never knew any of it before... so thank you!

 

[EclipseFour20]

Pumice requires an incredible amount of suction to remove the water from inside those cavities...you know--those with small openings to large caravans. Pumice and lava rocks were part of my game for many years...so I guess if I used them then I could not be 100% wrong...lol.

BTW, check out "calcined clay"...you might be surprised of it's double duty capabilities: high absorption rate and it holds lots of elements/minerals--both in cation and anion form; montmorillonite clay is super high CEC and the best local steady eddie source I found is at Walmart sold under their label as "Special Kitty Cat Litter"...100% calcined bentonite clay (less than $4 for 25 pounds).

Not aware that lava rocks have a peculiar quality to enhance microherd colonies...but who knows?

 

[Granger2]

Interesting about sunflowers and cannabis at Chernobal. Gives one pause. Heavy metals may or may not affect taste and terpene profile. Anyone know? -granger

 

[Team Microbe]

Not aware that lava rocks have a peculiar quality to enhance microherd colonies...but who knows?

I do, just think about it - all of those little tiny micro pores are perfect environments for microbes to reside in. They're like mini caves and there's a massive rager in each one of them - it's like new year's eve in time square - ALL THE TIME :yay:

Just because you've used them doesn't mean these claims hold validity though, they're still anecdotal until you gather real data rather than your gut feeling. Unless your plants can talk... I'm on the fence with this one

 

[EclipseFour20]

I am aware that rock dust (including lava rock) can provide an assortment of mineral fractions to the microherd...but not aware that lava rocks become little condos/habitats for the herd. I know lava caves contain diverse microbial populations, so if one assumes rocks are "little caves"....maybe, don't know, hard to say. I guess if lava rocks are "top layered", you might have something going for you. I recall majority of the microherd reside in the top few inches of the soil...and placing rocks deep in the soil (where there is less oxygen) might not be too efficient--as you are providing homes where they don't live. So top dressing or layering the grow medium with lava rocks? Hmmmm.

As for "food for bacteria", I am in many camps: compost, rock & sea minerals, seaweed, food meals, etc....including adding "raw milk" as an additive to my "bacteria brew".

Google this term (over 40k hits): "milk" "food for bacteria"

I am not aware of a better "food for bacteria"...than Raw Milk, especially at $4/half gallon for the "low fat" variety. Raw Milk is not pasteurized and contains all the bacteria (good and bad) nature intended milk to have. I feed each plant in 5 gallon containers the equivalent of 7.5ml of Raw Milk every 14 days or so as part of my "bacteria brew" (molasses, yucca schidigera saponins, raw milk, and when appropriate fresh inoculation of selected strains of bacteria and endo mychs). I subscribe to the notion that if you provide the herd with a diverse assortment of food...they will live long and prosper.

 

[Team Microbe]

haha man I'm trying to tell you something here, so you're pretty much saying you don't believe me now

 

[EclipseFour20]

LOL...believe and understand are two different concepts. If I don't understand it, then it is hard for me to believe it. Just don't understand why one would build a habitat deep in the soil, if the population thrive near the surface. Visualize yourself as a real estate developer for the microherd, do you build homes near locations where they thrive...or where they don't?

Just simple logic from an "old fart".

 

[Team Microbe]

There are over 1 billion organisms in a tea spoon of that soil, and even more near the top layer as we all know. That (in my mind) would look like the entire USA were New York City, the top layer of the soil is just Time Square... that's all. All of those people can't be left out in the cold now can they? Just because the majority of life resides somewhere doesn't mean life elsewhere should be ignored

 

[EclipseFour20]

Ahhh the "Field of Dreams" strategy: "If you build it, he will come."

I guess the only way to know is to try it and see if there is an increase in the herd.

You might say I am guilty of employing similar logic regarding Raw Milk: If you feed them with the best food available, then they will proliferate with reckless abandon.

 

[Team Microbe]

Lol

 

[Team Microbe]

Well, this is the cheapest rock I can find in my area - which is kind of crazy considering it goes for $30 a yard typically. It sucks living in the suburbs sometimes...


They won't order it to the store, because if they did it would cost the same since they don't actually carry it in stores... only online. I contacted every landscape business within 30 minutes of me and nobody's got it. Starting to get irritated over here... perhaps some bong rips are due. Yeah, definitely due.

 

[Granger2]

TM,
That looks like the stuff, though the price is kind of up there. If it's no till, the cost amortizes favorably.

But I hope someone can answer a question for me, as I am still researching. I've never really cared for Perlite, but I keep finding the same thing. Considering assorted drawbacks of other products that hold air when the medium is wet, Perlite still seems to be the best option.

In a no till soil, seems like the Perlite partical size would hold up. Any ideas about this? Also, anyone know anything about Earth Juice Aero Rock. A buddy called EJ, and they claim it holds more air than Perlite. A little big maybe? 5/16" - 5/8". And I wonder what kind of clay it's made from. Thanks. -granger

 

[Former Guest]

TM,
That looks like the stuff, though the price is kind of up there. If it's no till, the cost amortizes favorably.

But I hope someone can answer a question for me, as I am still researching. I've never really cared for Perlite, but I keep finding the same thing. Considering assorted drawbacks of other products that hold air when the medium is wet, Perlite still seems to be the best option.

In a no till soil, seems like the Perlite partical size would hold up. Any ideas about this? Also, anyone know anything about Earth Juice Aero Rock. A buddy called EJ, and they claim it holds more air than Perlite. A little big maybe? 5/16" - 5/8". And I wonder what kind of clay it's made from. Thanks. -granger

The reason perlite is not desired in no till is that overtime the perlite works it's way to the surface leaving little aeration left. I used expanded shale which comes in two sizes and you can get them at a hydro store for a decent price. I also used coco chips from roots organic. 2cuft for $16. Shale is probably double that price.

I would bet thats EJ aero rocks is recycled glass like Growstones.

 

[P-NUT]

How about some rocks from a creek in north carolina or somewhere similar would they work in no till to aerate the soil? And possibly add micronutrients? Btw i heard long ago about the ph releasing aluminium but guess what same thing happens perlite thats why i moved away from it opting for ricehulls but im not no till so i can just add more hulls when needed but i would like to try. My son brought a shitload of rocks home from nc years back and i just had the idea to try to use them but idk if itd work because theyre smooth

 

[Granger2]

Forgot to include Aero Rock link:
http://www.hydro-organics.com/site/products/growing-media/earth-juice-aerorock-h040/
Says its "produced from fired blown clay."

 

[Team Microbe]

How about some rocks from a creek in north carolina or somewhere similar would they work in no till to aerate the soil? And possibly add micronutrients? Btw i heard long ago about the ph releasing aluminium but guess what same thing happens perlite thats why i moved away from it opting for ricehulls but im not no till so i can just add more hulls when needed but i would like to try. My son brought a shitload of rocks home from nc years back and i just had the idea to try to use them but idk if itd work because theyre smooth

Ooph yeah smooth rocks wouldn't be the greatest, since it's all about surface area. This is why lava rock inhabits so many microorganisms, it's porosity is greater than most aeration amendments. I wish we could use straight rice hulls man, they're easy to access and are so cheap! Can't have your cake and eat it too I suppose...

 

[Granger2]

I don't know. I'm not enthused about rice hulls in no till. Worms eat them, and they decompose over time. I want something that is going to aerate the soil for as long as I use it. -granger

 

[armedoldhippy]

Home Depot around here carries lava rock. i've used it as an aggregate for the roots in DWC before. it aint fine stuff though. might have to take a hammer to it...

 

[Team Microbe]

I don't know. I'm not enthused about rice hulls in no till. Worms eat them, and they decompose over time. I want something that is going to aerate the soil for as long as I use it. -granger

Ya I just mixed them into my compost for worm bedding for that same reason. If I were to use rice hulls again in no-till, I'd use no more than 15% of my aeration. My first mix was 100% rice hulls and now I'm building bigger containers because of it. In a few more runs they'll be completely broken down I bet...