Doc Crow's Medicine Cabinet. 420 W CFL powered Perpetual Micro SOG PPK

[DocCrow]

AK 1

This one is the sorriest of the 4 AKs. This cut, M6, and M8 get one more run through the cab, and if they don't do much better than they will not be run anymore. I have some more beans coming so the time for thinning the herd is coming soon.

AK 2

This one is my fav in the cabinet. It is filling out nicely, is getting some good sour grapefruit funk to it, and is frosting up like crazy. More cuts have gone into flower on this one already. I think if I just ran this cut I would do really well, but I want some damn variety.

AK 3

 

[DocCrow]

M3

This one is the best of the mandalas so far. Tons of buds on this one due to the way I trained it. I will probably pull 2x as much off this one than my average for this run.

M7

Cab Shot Day 43 Flower.

Majorly defoliated. Looking much better. I am feeling good about things here.

 

[DocCrow]

MY CALL FOR HELP.

My previous pulse manifold was a disaster. I have 1/2" tubing coming from the pump, and I need to distribute it to 36 plant sites. I am beating my head against the wall trying to figure out how to DIY this CHEAPLY. ANY IDEAS FOR ME?

Thanks in advance.

DC

 

[oldone]

So please describe what a "disaster" means.

Did it leak?

Was the flow uneven? (I'd be very surprised if it wasn't uneven).

Doc, you're doing something here that none of us has done. Achieving a balanced pulse flow, in such a dense environment must be a monumental task.

I love thinking about shit like this and want to help. Besides which you have the entire PPK community watching and wanting to help.

So chin up solider we got your back,
OO

Editing to say that the above pics look pretty good. The ladies look healthy and exhibit the genetic diversity that you should expect. I'd say you're doing fine.

 

[DocCrow]

So please describe what a "disaster" means.

Uneven Flow, Leaks, just a mess, too space consuming. Just a fail. I am over it, just looking for a good solution. I have a 300 GPH pump. I am going to use pressure compensating emitters for each site. that will ensure that the distribution is even across the board. I think .5 GPH will be a good flow rate for a saturation pulse. That gives me 64 oz per minute and should not overflow my pots. I just need to figure out how to connect the outlet from my pump to 36 individual lines.

Any Ideas? I'm researching right now. I think I am gonna buy more tubing and the emitters tomorrow. Just need to figure out how to get from the pump outlet to 36 1/4" lines

I also want to attach it to the Res not the cab. The res is getting put on full extension slides, so in the future I can slide the whole thing out of the cab for my weekly maintenance. I think with the PC emittera and the pump I have I can attach the manifold to the lid along the back where there is a little extra room.
dc

 

[Darth Fader]

Drop the top pulse entirely, unless your coco's drying out badly & you have salt buildup probs. Another good option is Blumats. I love the idea of this type of cab for running seeds & selecting phenos - not a lot of space to dedicate & herms are much easier to find on smaller plants. Imma hafta build one of these. Would need a upper and lower cab combo though so I can keep cuts/reveg in one and flower in the other.

G/L

 

[DocCrow]

After doing some more reading I think I have a solution.
Step 1
Run 1/2" tubing along the back of the reservoir. Install plug in the end of the tube and secure the tube down to the lid

2

use a punch to install 36 1/4" barbed couplings directly into the 1/2" tubing. apparently this is how the irrigation guys do it.

step 3

run 1/4" tubing from the 36 couplings to the 36 .5 gph emitters in the pots. turn pump on and open valve just enough for the pressure to rise enough for the emitters to flow properly.

The other option is to install the emitters into the 1/2" tubing and run 1/4" from the emitters to the pots. I will try this first, ad it removes the cost of the couplings from the equation.

Wish me luck, and if you have a better idea let me know.

Going shopping sometime tomorrow maybe.

If I have time

I still need to finish making my xmas presents

hopefully before xmas

DC

 

[Mister_D]

Do a search here on the mag for "pico's manifold" Pico is a member here that did some excellent DIY threads on various grow related subjects. Main thing to remember when designing a manifold, especially if you are using open 1/4" line, is to get an over sized pump so the excess flow can be redirected back into the res. This will ensure not only that your flow is even, it allows for a waterfall to be created in the res adding extra DO. The other important factor is making a closed loop out of your manifold. This can be a square, circle, rectangle, etc. Water will always take the path of least resisitance so if you just cap off a straight pipe the 1/4" lines closest to the pump will have more flow than those on the end. However in a loop pressure equalizes before being pushed out the 1/4" tubing. Some food for thought......

 

[petemoss]

Hi DC, your plantlets look fine! Don't be discouraged; the fun part is tweaking your grow, finding the weak link and fixing it. With your DIY skills and a willingness to experiment, you'll get your setup tuned in no time. The first suggestion I can make is to give yourself more room to work with by scaling down to eight or maybe seven rows across. This would necessitate cutting a new top and respacing the holes, leaving more room on the sides and between pots.

Build a rectangular feed manifold like I showed in my first post here. It doesn't have to be a PVC loop as Pico did. 1/2" vinyl tubing with 1/4" barbed couplings is what many top drippers use. The advantage of pumping into a circular loop is that it is easier to get even pressure throughout the loop when your pump is small. If you run the rectangular feed manifold between the first and second rows from the edge, your 1/4" feed lines will be roughly equal in length. That and restricting the flow with emitters should get you even flow to all pots. Instead of emitters, you could make drip rings with 1/4" tubing and a barbed tee. The right tools makes the job easier, so I'll try to find some pics of some holes punchers and drip rings.

edit: ah I see Mister_D has recommended the same Pico style feed manifold. It works very well! Here's a pic of a palm punch and a more heavy duty punch. When punching just a couple of holes, the yellow palm punch will suffice. But if you're going to punch dozens of holes, I highly recommend the heavy duty blue and white "professional" hand punch. The blue punch won't go cut all the way through to the other side. It stops with about 1/8" clearance. I got it from here: http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_categories/122/drip_irrigation_families/208
I used a John Guest 1/4" tee to make my drip ring, figuring that it would make it easier to re-arrange the plants after a perpetual harvest of four or five plants. But a simple barbed tee will do.

 

[DocCrow]

Pete, D, great info as always. I will have something to show you by the next update day. Back to the woodshop to work on xmas gifts.

 

[redneckhippie]

Nice work, lots of good info about PPK which I'd been wondering about, thank you.

I started with the Dr. Bud method using soil and 16oz bottles, then went to mini wicking hempy/coco buckets fashioned from 2 litre bottles - about 1 litre of coco after modding them.

Based on my limited experience, this is what I learned from the DB method:

1. For a successful perpetual grow, it requires good cloning skills, genetics, and a goodly amount of time. I managed a 21 plant 3/week on a 7 week cycle for several months, but it was difficult for me to keep this up and I have much less free time now.

2. Dialing in a strain - Dr. Bud asserts that any strain can be dialed in to this method, generally I agree. He recommends putting clones in at 1", 2", 3", etc. height to test which works best for finish height. Once this is established, you still have to deal with #1 in getting the clones popping out at the right height every cycle. Starting way more than you need will be required for a good while. Now, I'm not saying that you can't get some nice bud, but if you're looking to hit that 7g+ per it's quite a lot of work. You obviously have skills, for me personally I would recommend sticking with one strain at time vs. trying to do a bunch. Get one dialed in, then experiment with others. Remember that Dr. Bud developed his own strain over a period of time, which achieved impressive results.

3. Concerning de-foliation, he said don't. I agree, especially with SOG under CFL's. Now, until you get the strain dialed in you'll probably have to do some trimming & training. I had a Northern Lights strain that when put in 12/12 from 2" - 3" clone would finish at 12" - 18". It takes a few grows to get a feel for the amount of stretch. The best yield result will be the one big top cola. Removing lower fan leaves isn't going to have much affect on the popcorn buds beneath, because of the short penetration of CFL's. With plants packed so closely together, they will naturally inhibit lateral growth. I just pull the fan leaves as they die. This isn't like growing a bush, where defoliation will encourage more branching/bud sites. You're growing a branch and one bud, not a bush or tree.

When it's dialed it, you put the clone in and have to do nothing except feed/water till time to harvest the "budsicles". A couple of other thoughts - I think you could be somewhat limited by the glass under the CFL's, I assume this is for air cooling? Having the bulbs bare leaves some wiggle room with plant height, your taller plants can poke up between/around the bulbs. Which in turn utilizes more of the bulb's penetration.

One thing that I did slightly differently, the Dr generally kept all the pots on the same level. I blocked up the plants to get the small ones closer to the lights. I found with the NL on 7 week cycle, by the end of the 3rd week they were pretty much done stretching height wise. So, my first 2 rows were staggered height with blocks. Obviously with the control tray you can't do this, but it could help to lower the bulbs a bit at one end of the box.

 

[DocCrow]

RedNeckHippie Thanks for the input. I had the same thought about the light height so I put a 2 bulb 2' t5 strip on the back of the cab. they spend their first 2 weeks camped in front of that.

 

[DocCrow]

Sorry folks for my absence in this thread lately. I have been crazy busy lately. From here on out I will update whenever I pull a plant down since I will be pulling them every week soon.

I have harvested all 4 ak's and one Mandala. I 2 Ak's (one runt) came down a bit early and I have been puffing on that. The other 2 ak's and the mandala (m3) came down sun night.

I do not have any pics at the moment, but will get pics up before they go into jars. I estimate from the 5 plants around 2 oz, but I don't have a scale yet to verify that. In addition I made a nickel size piece of BHO with the shittier buds and the trimmings. I make it with fresh frozen material. Took a couple of hours total.

I apologize for the lack of pics. I will get some good ones in couple of days.

I have the cab nearly full now. I am putting 4 in every week. In ~4 weeks the true perpetual cycle begins. I am still running everything that I have run so far. In addition I have 2 Blueberry that are getting cloned tomorrow, to go in the cab.

I also started to germ some new beans today in search of the dankity dank. I got some Canna Venture seeds gear that I am gonna run. I have Diesel Fire BXII, PurpleBerry X Arcata TW, Secret OG, and Sour Double Kush BXII that a bro sent to me. I am excited to see what I get. I am germing 3-8 of each.

The future is looking bright.

Kandy Kush is a stretchy mamma jamma.

I am concerned with some of the clones I put in. They were rooted, but I am not sure if the first 4-8 were really back in veg (I took the clones 3 weeks in to flower). They are growing as 6-8 inch budsicles. Much too small. They did not stretch at all. That is ones put in 3-4 weeks ago. The ones I put in 2 weeks ago look like they are starting to stretch. Kandy Kush especially.

Oh, ya. I am still working on my pulse feeding. I am gonna get adjustable drip irrigation manifolds. 3 6 outlet manifolds. Each outlet will feed 2 plants, and is adjustable from 0-20 GPH. Hopefully I can get it soon. I am not putting nay more money into growing, that is not generated from it. I have a few close buddies that I am supplying, so in a few weeks I should be able to buy some more stuff.

DocCrow

 

[MrAwder]

Sounds like things are going great. Can't wait to see some pics. Those canna beans all sound fantastic.

As far as your tiny clones go... I would say regardless of roots wait until a plant shows definitive growth before flipping. I have seen what you describe and all i could attribute it to was the plant triggering budding and growth simultaneously leading to diminished results. This is from when i grew in a cab. You definitely don't want the clones to stretch too much either, so you are left with kind of a narrow window in a small space. You should definitely notice when your clones are healthy and "established" by fairly rapid vertical growth in as little as 48 hours.

Of course that's all just my 2 cents. Look forward to seeing your pump/manifold setup as i am still planning on setting up something similar when time and funds permit.

 

[5th]

Good to see your still in the thick of it Doc.

 

[quinoa64]

Media wicking explained

Media wicking explained

Now I understand PPK!

Which, ok, isn't that difficult to comprehend, but media wicking wasn't obvious to me.

Your post #44 is enlightenment.

There is a screen affixed in the bottom of the tailpiece to hold the medium and the roots in the pot and out of the reservoir. This is a key part of the PPK. It keeps the roots out of the reservoir allowing the coco to act as a buffer. The tailpiece is loosely packed with the same medium the plant is in.

Is there screen at both ends of the tailpiece? Or just the bottom?

In other words, do you let the roots grow into the tailpiece and tap into the perched water table?

 

[DocCrow]

Now I understand PPK!

Which, ok, isn't that difficult to comprehend, but media wicking wasn't obvious to me.

Your post #44 is enlightenment.



Is there screen at both ends of the tailpiece? Or just the bottom?

In other words, do you let the roots grow into the tailpiece and tap into the perched water table?

Glad I could be of help man, just trying to pay it forward.

Screen just in the bottom, the object is to keep the medium AND the roots from coming out of the tailpipe. A good size wad of fiberglass screen (about the size of a golfball when wadded up in there) works well. My screen occupies the bottom ~2" of my tailpipes, and the roots don't grow out.

Everyone else: I am sorry for the lack of updates but I just started a new job, and I am waiting for my perpetual harvests to start. Hopefully in a few weeks I can start posting harvest pics weekly. the first few will be pretty small. I took the clones 3 weeks into flower, and apparently they rooted, but were not under 24/0 long enough to fully revert to veg. They did not stretch, and are quite short. Everything that went in since new years is preforming quite well.

I have some new genetics that I just popped. As soon as I can get rooted clones of those I am gonna start throwing them in the flower cab. This will give me time to establish the moms I am going to keep out of the genetics I have. I am keeping AK 2,3,4 a WWxBB I am gonna call Betty White, A BDxOG I am calling Phyllis Diller, 1 cut from my Mandala safari mix I am calling Red Green and a Kandy Kush cut. A couple other Mandala mix plants were very tasty and potent, but took too long to finish (12 weeks).

 

[#1cheesebuds]

this looks like a great garden but for my style they r too tall for my liking.
but great job otherwise.

 

[johnnyrotten]

I'm subbed, can't wait to see how your grow is doing now... I'm downsizing my grow soon and I'll be using an organic soil water only ppk without a pulse... your design has given me an inspiration... I think I'm going to look at using PL-L lights instead of CFL's... they may cost a little more but after I sell all my HPS ballasts I should have enough for those...

 

[icdog]

Thanks Doccrow, like others now I understand the ppk. Now I have to find a setup for trees with a remote res and pwt level control.
Many thanks