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Do all my plants foxtail because..?
- Thread starter inreplyavalon
- Start date
that's a new one on me.... but i dont doubt ur experience pinballwizrd
anyhow
foxtails?
need more air exchange to lower the temps
also one part nutes.
drop the N in mid flower, loose it all together later on, ime.
also,
if you think ur plants are foxtailling to avoid molding in ur humid environment
awesome
u got some smart ganja plants....
better that they foxtail than molding!
Hammerhead the plants are vegged 6 weeks. They are 3-4 feet with 5-8 tops and in 3 gal. geo pots. As for Air exchange, the room is sealed with no intake or out. There are oscillators moving it around the room though.. Thanks for sharing
Dansbud thats interesting insight. The idea of the plant getting more N as Bloom goes on. I feed a two part, as in PBP veg in veg, and PBP Bloom in flower. Come to think of it though, i fed Heavy 16 A+B for the first 5-6 weeks of bloom, until it ran out. Then i switched to PBP which is 1-4-5 for the Bloom. So maybe the Heavy 16 is the culprit, or the 1 in the 1-4-5 in the PBP. Either case i'll probably finish up with GH bloom next round and see if i notice a difference. Appreciate the sharing of thoughts bro!
Pinball, intersting observation, i have noticed it on plants directly under the light sometimes look just like the ones in your photos. Either way my plants are trellised and bent and abused and will never be rotated once flowering..
Crooked8 i agree, somewhat. Sometimes when the buds are on the side then entire buds grow towards the light, and they stay compact and together. Other times specific calyx flowers will shoot up off the surrounding bud and foxtail. As opposed to the entire node turning and growing together towards the light. I'm finding all branches, whether up or sideways are foxtailing, but definitely more exaggerated on the buds laying on there sides.
Avinash, yeah they are superhero plants of course. Eat drink sleep and read..
Well my temps are 80-85 and thats where i want them since i am supplementing Co2. The last 2 weeks or so, i lower the co2 and also bring the canopy temp down to 75. Seems like thats not too high. A buddy of mine suggested dropping the night time temps so that the plant will want to hug itself to stay warm. Nice visual..
Yeah i am going to be more careful about the amount of N this next round.
Cheers everyone for hanging around. Here are some pics of what i'm talking about. Day 73 Chem Sour
Dansbud thats interesting insight. The idea of the plant getting more N as Bloom goes on. I feed a two part, as in PBP veg in veg, and PBP Bloom in flower. Come to think of it though, i fed Heavy 16 A+B for the first 5-6 weeks of bloom, until it ran out. Then i switched to PBP which is 1-4-5 for the Bloom. So maybe the Heavy 16 is the culprit, or the 1 in the 1-4-5 in the PBP. Either case i'll probably finish up with GH bloom next round and see if i notice a difference. Appreciate the sharing of thoughts bro!
Pinball, intersting observation, i have noticed it on plants directly under the light sometimes look just like the ones in your photos. Either way my plants are trellised and bent and abused and will never be rotated once flowering..
Crooked8 i agree, somewhat. Sometimes when the buds are on the side then entire buds grow towards the light, and they stay compact and together. Other times specific calyx flowers will shoot up off the surrounding bud and foxtail. As opposed to the entire node turning and growing together towards the light. I'm finding all branches, whether up or sideways are foxtailing, but definitely more exaggerated on the buds laying on there sides.
Avinash, yeah they are superhero plants of course. Eat drink sleep and read..
Well my temps are 80-85 and thats where i want them since i am supplementing Co2. The last 2 weeks or so, i lower the co2 and also bring the canopy temp down to 75. Seems like thats not too high. A buddy of mine suggested dropping the night time temps so that the plant will want to hug itself to stay warm. Nice visual..
Yeah i am going to be more careful about the amount of N this next round.
Cheers everyone for hanging around. Here are some pics of what i'm talking about. Day 73 Chem Sour
looks good
but ya super foxytaily
but ya super foxytaily
aloha Avalon...I'd like a shot at your concerns...
Im along the lines of what Dansbuds is suggesting...
This is what I refer to as growing Buds..not Flowering buds...
Some say heat stress and I get where that comes from...
but its up to the user to know if thats the actual case...
To me what u have a imbalance of formula for that Type of variety...
If you hit a lets say Haze with heavy N...it will never ever stop flowering..cause most hazes need hardly any N thru bloom even tho they need to be fed low and constant for months with a more 1-4-5 formula...
Indicas for me get a sorta 3-2-4 goin into bloom and a high PPM...then round down to a 1-4-5 then 1-5-6 pr 0-5-6 pending type...
Allot may even imply its genetic but it is in a way..
For Sat doms I start bloom with a low 2-4-6...and by wk 3 switch to a 1-4-5 at a low-med PPM...
Also if you r direct N is equal to P you get a growing Calyx...If P and K are in the proper range you get a Swelling calyx..
Its expressing according to the Food/Room tho...not the actual needs of the plant...as in you gave it to much of something and its out of balance and thus Grew your Calyx's and did not Swell them..
This might all seem a lil diff of a view..think it over..let it sink in...
but I know how ya feel....been there n done that...
See this Stretched out Calyx?.....thast imbalance of N to P ratio in bloom..to much N..vs not enough P...and why did it happen?..cause this strain didnt need much N at all thru bloom..so it s stored it ..and stored it..etc...and soon as it became flush time...
I only used water and it opened up the N reserve an "Grew" the calyx's...anyway its the users call and i think with all the suggestions you def have some options to try...
This pic was a SOL BSat v1 in DWC controlled nutes tested for level reaction...my clawing was a sever N overdose..so I tried to flush it out with a mild P-K solution..but as said it kept growing"...
The SupMFBerry is also a type i tested this idea on and got same or bout same reaction being they are diff types..
When I see chalky stretched out calyx's and not so great resins it perty much is the plant saying it..
Now I do run my room hot and rather Dry...in bloom 78-85+deg/35-45%RH...and heres what osSSH forms like within this hot dry room..no foxes by formula..theres also a ripening point to talk on when it comes to over flowering...I'd def try and get it to express more classically...Then make small adjustment till your happy...sorry for the long post..hope any of it helps..
power to it and keep rollin
FOE20
Im along the lines of what Dansbuds is suggesting...
This is what I refer to as growing Buds..not Flowering buds...
Some say heat stress and I get where that comes from...
but its up to the user to know if thats the actual case...
To me what u have a imbalance of formula for that Type of variety...
If you hit a lets say Haze with heavy N...it will never ever stop flowering..cause most hazes need hardly any N thru bloom even tho they need to be fed low and constant for months with a more 1-4-5 formula...
Indicas for me get a sorta 3-2-4 goin into bloom and a high PPM...then round down to a 1-4-5 then 1-5-6 pr 0-5-6 pending type...
Allot may even imply its genetic but it is in a way..
For Sat doms I start bloom with a low 2-4-6...and by wk 3 switch to a 1-4-5 at a low-med PPM...
Also if you r direct N is equal to P you get a growing Calyx...If P and K are in the proper range you get a Swelling calyx..
Its expressing according to the Food/Room tho...not the actual needs of the plant...as in you gave it to much of something and its out of balance and thus Grew your Calyx's and did not Swell them..
This might all seem a lil diff of a view..think it over..let it sink in...
but I know how ya feel....been there n done that...
See this Stretched out Calyx?.....thast imbalance of N to P ratio in bloom..to much N..vs not enough P...and why did it happen?..cause this strain didnt need much N at all thru bloom..so it s stored it ..and stored it..etc...and soon as it became flush time...
I only used water and it opened up the N reserve an "Grew" the calyx's...anyway its the users call and i think with all the suggestions you def have some options to try...
This pic was a SOL BSat v1 in DWC controlled nutes tested for level reaction...my clawing was a sever N overdose..so I tried to flush it out with a mild P-K solution..but as said it kept growing"...
The SupMFBerry is also a type i tested this idea on and got same or bout same reaction being they are diff types..
When I see chalky stretched out calyx's and not so great resins it perty much is the plant saying it..
Now I do run my room hot and rather Dry...in bloom 78-85+deg/35-45%RH...and heres what osSSH forms like within this hot dry room..no foxes by formula..theres also a ripening point to talk on when it comes to over flowering...I'd def try and get it to express more classically...Then make small adjustment till your happy...sorry for the long post..hope any of it helps..
power to it and keep rollin
FOE20
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i also find that if there is excess N in mid-late flower the plants will put on foxtails in a second stage of growth rather than finish.
high heat will cause more transpiration and therefore more N may be uptaken because of this too.
some plants will foxtail whatever you do to them though, and with some it is the only way to get a decent yield becuase the calyxes dont multiply unless you stack them...
VG
high heat will cause more transpiration and therefore more N may be uptaken because of this too.
some plants will foxtail whatever you do to them though, and with some it is the only way to get a decent yield becuase the calyxes dont multiply unless you stack them...
VG
hey Verdant...see thats what I think is a wider issue than we make of it...I get how your saying it can add weight by "over flowering"...unfortunately that plant is way past its due date tho...also with the combination of grow and bloom going on you get a mixed resin profile..All I can say is this is not as good as proper expressions and normal maturation of the Buds and Resins Together...
Part are new dev..part are old and going over mature = effect cancellation issues...
but honestly..I believe in proper Expression...and IMO thats the first step...I feel with that bit of intuitiveness and the ideas given by all..He will get it to express better and fill in proper...with even better prod on all levels...just my feel tho...who knows...just tryin to help..But I have over flowered allot...and tested them all...and it does take away and miss allot bradda...now if that was a Thai at 14wks or so I could understand..heh..
But the whole room looks a bit over flowered...
But also I get that some varieties actually have up to 3 flower cycles..or can be harv up to 3 times in 1 season when the season is a endless summer...heh...
Ive done it myself...But the upper buds looked done compared to lower...so its logical and ethical to me..But what were talkin here is a simple imbalance of formula par variety..and if most of the plants had the same type of reaction no matter make or model?....I'd say its nutes...cause really they look fine health wise ya know...
No curl or claws..good fan form..but its the Buds we need to talk to more...
and yes..I am saying it is not the fault of the genetic expression or room...its the nutes and room in combination with the user that did not satisfy the plants needs..
What was just suggested is its ok to over flower and then Make the buds worthy...I do not follow that train of thougt but it is done allot...and way to much and to often IMO..
With plants like this at that point I concentrate on maturing all the resins poss and Hash them..the smoke will be airy and not what the variety is truly about...
but hey...Im only lookin and takin what im feelin...no biggie n keep rollin
FOE20
Part are new dev..part are old and going over mature = effect cancellation issues...
but honestly..I believe in proper Expression...and IMO thats the first step...I feel with that bit of intuitiveness and the ideas given by all..He will get it to express better and fill in proper...with even better prod on all levels...just my feel tho...who knows...just tryin to help..But I have over flowered allot...and tested them all...and it does take away and miss allot bradda...now if that was a Thai at 14wks or so I could understand..heh..
But the whole room looks a bit over flowered...
But also I get that some varieties actually have up to 3 flower cycles..or can be harv up to 3 times in 1 season when the season is a endless summer...heh...
Ive done it myself...But the upper buds looked done compared to lower...so its logical and ethical to me..But what were talkin here is a simple imbalance of formula par variety..and if most of the plants had the same type of reaction no matter make or model?....I'd say its nutes...cause really they look fine health wise ya know...
No curl or claws..good fan form..but its the Buds we need to talk to more...
and yes..I am saying it is not the fault of the genetic expression or room...its the nutes and room in combination with the user that did not satisfy the plants needs..
What was just suggested is its ok to over flower and then Make the buds worthy...I do not follow that train of thougt but it is done allot...and way to much and to often IMO..
With plants like this at that point I concentrate on maturing all the resins poss and Hash them..the smoke will be airy and not what the variety is truly about...
but hey...Im only lookin and takin what im feelin...no biggie n keep rollin
FOE20
L
LEX-UK
U dont see fox tailing on a lot of other people's pics because thyre not letting their plants bloom long enough imo.
Strain dependant tho, you do an epic job with sealed room bro.
Strain dependant tho, you do an epic job with sealed room bro.
LEX long enough and Over is 2 diff things bradda....I personally flower long bro, and Proper as everything I run goes a min of 9-10..on avr 11-12.....no matter kush or haze but I feed them to Order which is what makes all the diff....I def dont feed my Kushes or Indica doms anything like i feed my Mixed or Sat doms..and I run least 32+ diff varieties so I see allot of diff expressions..
But I do not believe foxtails are a more natural form than swelling calyx's...
IMO/E You need both a proper Bud form and a proper Window of maturation to know when the plants wants to be ready...Proper effect profiles are besed on the combo of both Bud and resins..not only the meat, or only the extraction of resins..The combination of both Bud "Un-kiffed or dry sifted".. the end result "Complete" used to give exactly what the variety has to offer...this is tested along the way...So testing that plant will not be easy cause its not proper form...
Test could be so far from actual it really should matter...and not sure why folks think otherwise...
Loose and Airy is 1 thing but yo can have a air bud that looks proper without pressing or shaping it for bag appeal...
Wont matter...profiles are off...whether it looks wrthy or not after dry, cure, shape n bagged...a sexy odd profile turd on most...I hope the line he's growing is at least worthy...cause if not he's got a larf pile...and that part is genetic bound but will only show ya when you know it best and it expresses and matures least to a closer standard form...
I used to do what your saying..as allot of others still do and always have..I dont anymore....and thats for sure...and the quality is a whole diff world as well...and why i went thru 4 yrs of testing the theory that was just laid out...But its all good man no matter how you run or anyone...to each their own...
Cause down to brass...Over is Over...Under is Under...Proper is Proper...
but the avr cat says..its genetic...heh....not I sir...not I....
stay kewl
FOE20
But I do not believe foxtails are a more natural form than swelling calyx's...
IMO/E You need both a proper Bud form and a proper Window of maturation to know when the plants wants to be ready...Proper effect profiles are besed on the combo of both Bud and resins..not only the meat, or only the extraction of resins..The combination of both Bud "Un-kiffed or dry sifted".. the end result "Complete" used to give exactly what the variety has to offer...this is tested along the way...So testing that plant will not be easy cause its not proper form...
Test could be so far from actual it really should matter...and not sure why folks think otherwise...
Loose and Airy is 1 thing but yo can have a air bud that looks proper without pressing or shaping it for bag appeal...
Wont matter...profiles are off...whether it looks wrthy or not after dry, cure, shape n bagged...a sexy odd profile turd on most...I hope the line he's growing is at least worthy...cause if not he's got a larf pile...and that part is genetic bound but will only show ya when you know it best and it expresses and matures least to a closer standard form...
I used to do what your saying..as allot of others still do and always have..I dont anymore....and thats for sure...and the quality is a whole diff world as well...and why i went thru 4 yrs of testing the theory that was just laid out...But its all good man no matter how you run or anyone...to each their own...
Cause down to brass...Over is Over...Under is Under...Proper is Proper...
but the avr cat says..its genetic...heh....not I sir...not I....
stay kewl
FOE20
L
LEX-UK
Knowledge is power n I'm weak as fook. Y'all are to clever for me to play with I'm off to the pub lol.
Folks this thread has been a gripping experience for me. I spent the last 24 hours trimming and letting all the posts sink in and pass around the cortex. Intermingling with THC and such. All the while having the foxtailing kolas in my hand.
First off Tony, my co2 ppm is 1000-1200 for the first 7 weeks, then down to about 700 and finally 500.
I can say with as much certainty as i can ever muster, that my issue was overfertilization specifically of the N kind. I switched and gave Heavy 16 a try and the total N in the Bloom A & B, is something like 5.25 or so. I fed them with that fairly heavily for two far into flower. What really made things coalesce in my mind was the point FOE made by sharing this, "it opened up the N reserve an "Grew" the calyx's".
YES! I have not been so excited about growing in a while. I always have had more foxtailing than i felt was normal, but this round it was so exaggerated that i could see single calyx elongating on a toothpick stem. It was a trip and until i read these knowledgeable posts, i was clueless. Now i am beginning to see the light in a very very long tunnel.
Whats my solution. Take a step back. Stop switching nutrients every round, and feed them ladies "to order". About a year ago i realized after a long while and many rounds, of slow shy growth during the stretch/transition period, that i was chronically under feeding in the start of flower. I upped my nutes and the plants loved it during that period of stretch that has always given me trouble. I should have learned then to give them a more tailored diet based on what stage they were in. Instead i was feeding in general ways and summarized accepted protocals. Perpetual rookie i tell you! I have not been this excited about my upcoming round for many many moons. I want to address everything written more, and plan to, but got two more days of trimming, and thems some long hours!
So, FOE20, Verdantgreen, and DansBud, and everyone else that spent some of the ole time, you all are what makes this ICmonster the special place that it is. Wish i could buy you a beer and smoke you out with NEXT rounds herb ( it will burn better i am sure
ps. I always felt my foxtailing was added growth on the outside of my established bud. Well the severeness of the Ftails this round, coupled with the insights shared in this thread, have helped me to comprehend that it is actually the bud that was already there, growing its internal stems, while adding on a few calyx on the tips of the foxtails. The same way a few calyx would be growing on a properly expressed, maturing bud, only they would all be growing side by side in a cluster on the proper expressions, as opposed to all dangly and apart as the foxtails inevitably end up. Doubt that reads as well as it fly around in my head, but at least its clear in my Mind!
First off Tony, my co2 ppm is 1000-1200 for the first 7 weeks, then down to about 700 and finally 500.
I can say with as much certainty as i can ever muster, that my issue was overfertilization specifically of the N kind. I switched and gave Heavy 16 a try and the total N in the Bloom A & B, is something like 5.25 or so. I fed them with that fairly heavily for two far into flower. What really made things coalesce in my mind was the point FOE made by sharing this, "it opened up the N reserve an "Grew" the calyx's".
YES! I have not been so excited about growing in a while. I always have had more foxtailing than i felt was normal, but this round it was so exaggerated that i could see single calyx elongating on a toothpick stem. It was a trip and until i read these knowledgeable posts, i was clueless. Now i am beginning to see the light in a very very long tunnel.
Whats my solution. Take a step back. Stop switching nutrients every round, and feed them ladies "to order". About a year ago i realized after a long while and many rounds, of slow shy growth during the stretch/transition period, that i was chronically under feeding in the start of flower. I upped my nutes and the plants loved it during that period of stretch that has always given me trouble. I should have learned then to give them a more tailored diet based on what stage they were in. Instead i was feeding in general ways and summarized accepted protocals. Perpetual rookie i tell you! I have not been this excited about my upcoming round for many many moons. I want to address everything written more, and plan to, but got two more days of trimming, and thems some long hours!
So, FOE20, Verdantgreen, and DansBud, and everyone else that spent some of the ole time, you all are what makes this ICmonster the special place that it is. Wish i could buy you a beer and smoke you out with NEXT rounds herb ( it will burn better i am sure
ps. I always felt my foxtailing was added growth on the outside of my established bud. Well the severeness of the Ftails this round, coupled with the insights shared in this thread, have helped me to comprehend that it is actually the bud that was already there, growing its internal stems, while adding on a few calyx on the tips of the foxtails. The same way a few calyx would be growing on a properly expressed, maturing bud, only they would all be growing side by side in a cluster on the proper expressions, as opposed to all dangly and apart as the foxtails inevitably end up. Doubt that reads as well as it fly around in my head, but at least its clear in my Mind!
I know exactly what your speaking of in that instance to..heheh..extremely odd growth is it not?..
but glad it made sense for you Avalon..it will def help you see structures in a new way if you play with formulas a bit thru your bloom cycle..power to it and keep rollin
FOE20
this is a really good post!
I used to run a pure haze that would go 20 weeks before I would have to just stop the N out of sheer amazement that is was still flowering.
coloradokushin
Member
foxin
foxin
the same strains grown in higher temps do it verses the same strain in a cooler room stays tighter. also i have noticed that high pk boosters mainly shooting powdwer makes the blooms foxtail.
foxin
the same strains grown in higher temps do it verses the same strain in a cooler room stays tighter. also i have noticed that high pk boosters mainly shooting powdwer makes the blooms foxtail.
"if your direct N is equal to P you get a growing Calyx...If P and K are in the proper range you get a Swelling calyx" True gold right there FOE20
Around Oct-Jan I was seeing alot of foxtailing. At the time I attributed it to my aging bulb. Though past it's limit I think my true problem may have been that I wanted to recycle my soil. Over a year I had been buying the storeshelf EWC and throwing it in sometimes substituting a bag of FFOE instead. Well I kept replacing the N but everything else was probably not up to where it should be. I have since discovered more ammendments and the ratios to add them. I now have a whole new way of looking at the soil as a living entity. Replacing my eye probably helped but now everything is smiling and you gave me a deeper understanding as to why.
*I thought 150 days seemed a little long on some of the bloom times.
Around Oct-Jan I was seeing alot of foxtailing. At the time I attributed it to my aging bulb. Though past it's limit I think my true problem may have been that I wanted to recycle my soil. Over a year I had been buying the storeshelf EWC and throwing it in sometimes substituting a bag of FFOE instead. Well I kept replacing the N but everything else was probably not up to where it should be. I have since discovered more ammendments and the ratios to add them. I now have a whole new way of looking at the soil as a living entity. Replacing my eye probably helped but now everything is smiling and you gave me a deeper understanding as to why.
*I thought 150 days seemed a little long on some of the bloom times.
^I like the way he put that too because it is very very true, and said in few words!!
from a pot of wet dirt
from a pot of wet dirt
never dried between waterings...here's her exclusive tails homie!
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
from a pot of wet dirt
never dried between waterings...here's her exclusive tails homie!
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
