DJ Short Flo help f2.

[just_asking]

 

[just_asking]

 

[just_asking]

...lol, I gotta grow em first, eh? I'll be showing plent of pics.

 

[just_asking]

Flo 08'

 

[just_asking]

I was wrong about the Azure Haze being an f4, I was reading the package wrong. But I still theorize about the back-cross being a potential reason as to why they're labeled "f4's or f5's."

 

[GlandualFever]

And on the first question, when u outcross, ur creating a whole new family, so that's why an f5 dad can create and f1 offspring. As long as its crossed with different genetics.

Does that not then make the F5 dad technically a P1 for the new line? Or am i getting this wrong?

 

[sal opette]

What the op meant was he made seeds from the breeder pack. He made the common mistake of calling them f2, because he thought they were f1's. they are not. they are f5, so he made f6's.

Well that is not entirely true, original flo may have been f5s or f6s but for a few years now DJs flo is actually Flo x Blueberry F1. To be a true F1 dj thinks the two parents should be genetically separate, flo and blueberry do share a lot of genes. The pics I have seen from recent DJ flo are all more indica than is usually for original flo, even with the shared genetics there would be some segregation of traits - there should be some more sativa phenos original flo in the f2s.

All just details enjoy the smoke and the beans

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I understand that part of the problem, and a large part of the problem at that lies when someone takes, say for instance, the f5 and crosses it with something other than a back-cross and calls it anything other than an f6. I understand that that is part of the problem.

Yes, I understand that some people take his seeds and cross them with something else that isn't of original land race decent and call it an f1, I understand that some take his stuff and inbreed it and call it what it actually is, an f6. I understand people rip off his genetics, both intentionally and unintentionally. What Im attempting to address here are the circumstances in which it happens unintentionally. And if it so happens that we also end up discussing those matters where its done intentionally, so be it.

It is unfortunate that people rip off Dj's gear and intentionally produce a sub-par product and then claim it's his gear that's sub-par. I understand that, heathens with be heathens and greed is rampant.

But what's even more unfortunate is the level in which I've seen this is occurring unintentionally.

Please excuse me Miraculous Meds, but you are incorrect about the Whit. Blues, Azure Haze and Cocoa Kusk being f2 and or f1 outcrosses. I am holding in my hands seed packets of the Whitaker Blues, Cocoa Kush and Azure Haze directly from the hands of Dj himself. And it clearly states on the package that the Cocoa is an f4 or f5. The Azure haze is an f4, and the Whitaker Blues, an f4 or f5. Again, please excuse me, but the only reason I can figure that this would be is because they were some kind of potential back-cross, and not an outcross and thus labeled as 'either' but not one or the other. The logic being I assume that the Quimby, the Super Haze and one of the parent stock of Cocoa were at best, but unknown, to be f3's and thus making the C.K, W.B and A.H f4's or f5's and in fact not f1's.

The thing about this that concerns me is that with legalization and evolution we will soon be consuming much larger amounts of cannabis collectively. The era of the home cannabis breeder/producer/cultivar is upon us and the quality of medicine is potentially decreasing because of our perception that it is the genetics of old that are disrupting the quality of meds when in fact it's the inability to understand some rudimental and ethical breeding and business practices.

All I know is that considering the lack of rudimentary breeding knowledge within the industry, I completely understand why these seeds and genetics are so rare and valuable and can emphasize with the effort Dj has put into bringing us these strains. And the effort he's put into teaching us about what they are.

Your getting this mixed up. A parent can be from any f generation. Dj's parents are mainly f4, well his bb dad is f4 and that's what he uses to father all his seeds, so in his words a incross to anything of his makes f5 seeds. But take that f4 bb dad and breed out to any other genetics such as whit, or azure, then u have f1. Ive heard him speak directly to this point. Now he did state while its not a true f1, he considers there to be potential to find unique specimens in the next gen of cocoa and vani, because they are from such different ends of the spectrum of his genetic pool.

to reiterate: whitaker blues, and azure haze are f1. cocoa kush and vanilluna are technically f5 per dj's consideration that any incross to the oldest f gen makes it one more f gen. Now he does speculate to possibly finding some unique specimens in the next gen of cocoa and vani, since they are from indica and sativa separate seed pools.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Does that not then make the F5 dad technically a P1 for the new line? Or am i getting this wrong?

U are absolutely correct. If u get a pack of djs bb, breed with a male from that, u have a f5 male, that is now a p1 when u outcross it. If u simply make more bb seeds with a bb f5 female, then u have f6 seeds, and ur dad is technically an f5 dad still. But its still a p1 for u if u outcross with it. Its both essentially.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Well that is not entirely true, original flo may have been f5s or f6s but for a few years now DJs flo is actually Flo x Blueberry F1. To be a true F1 dj thinks the two parents should be genetically separate, flo and blueberry do share a lot of genes. The pics I have seen from recent DJ flo are all more indica than is usually for original flo, even with the shared genetics there would be some segregation of traits - there should be some more sativa phenos original flo in the f2s.

All just details enjoy the smoke and the beans

well actually its his flo mother plant crossed with his bb f4 dad. So the seeds are f5. The next generation will be f6 and probably more homozygous, and show less variation. But maybe the highland thai from the bb, will bring in some new phenos. I didn't see any in the pack I ran. they were all purple stemmed, super hollow stems, with earth/floral character.

 

[sal opette]

well actually its his flo mother plant crossed with his bb f4 dad. So the seeds are f5. The next generation will be f6 and probably more homozygous, and show less variation. But maybe the highland thai from the bb, will bring in some new phenos. I didn't see any in the pack I ran. they were all purple stemmed, super hollow stems, with earth/floral character.

No the f2 f3 f4 f5 only works with proper p1s to start then no outcrossing. Dj's current "flo" is floxblueberry and not f'anything it's two partly inbred lines hybridised. More like an f1 but as the parents were not true p1s it's not a true f1 either. Sorry to disagree.....

 

[Miraculous Meds]

No the f2 f3 f4 f5 only works with proper p1s to start then no outcrossing. Dj's current "flo" is floxblueberry and not f'anything it's two partly inbred lines hybridised. More like an f1 but as the parents were not true p1s it's not a true f1 either. Sorry to disagree.....

I don't care if u disagree. Just know that dj calls them f5. Im going with the terminology from the guy that made them and not u. U can go with ur own terminology if u like.

U realize that bb is flo with highland thai added right? Close enough of a inline dj considers it f5, and I bet u that if u make another gen of seeds u will have more of the same and not a lot of diversity, since dj has said that himself. Try it and see. Im going to, but it will be a while.

 

[sal opette]

to reiterate: whitaker blues, and azure haze are f1. cocoa kush and vanilluna are technically f5 per dj's consideration that any incross to the oldest f gen makes it one more f gen. Now he does speculate to possibly finding some unique specimens in the next gen of cocoa and valu n, since they are from indica and sativa separate seed pools.[/QUOTE

Yes I found this with vani f2s mucho variation than the seed pack.

Flo = sat

BB = indi

I expect similar increased variation in DJs current flo, very similar to the vani makeup.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Im not trying to argue with u sal, I think u r technically right about the flo not being exactly a f5, but its not exactly a f1 either, since the mom and dad are genetically almost identical. I was just trying to pass on what ive heard dj describe about this subject. And im pretty sure he refers to flo seeds being f5, not by `100% true definition, but by the way they will respond. So that being the case the flo should respond like a inbreed f6 in the next gen, making more similar plants. Id like to try but its gonna be quit a while before I can make flo seeds. It would be cool if someone would chime in that has made seeds from the current flo stock, and grown them out to see if they have variation.

I hope u r correct though that flo next generation will sport more unique specimens. I have 3 flo moms and they are pretty similar and pretty bland compared to all the other dj lines. but they are only going on a couple weeks cure so I think more magic is to come out of them with more time.

 

[sal opette]

Yeah we're pretty near I agreeing I recon.

I'm not convinced that flo and blueberry are that close original fl can get pretty sativa in expression, do we agree to disagree?

I have seen a few documented grows of the new flo and they don't seem to show very much variation compared to the 30 or so original flos I have run, seems your experience bares that out.

Good luck with the next generation and let us know how it goes.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Yeah we're pretty near I agreeing I recon.

I'm not convinced that flo and blueberry are that close original fl can get pretty sativa in expression, do we agree to disagree?

I have seen a few documented grows of the new flo and they don't seem to show very much variation compared to the 30 or so original flos I have run, seems your experience bares that out.

Good luck with the next generation and let us know how it goes.

So u r talking about the flo before he used his bb father to breed to the flo mom? I have no experience with that. Heres the best idea ive got. Im going to go smoke some flo and think about it. lol

 

[just_asking]

Hey all, I have a few things in regards to the comments since yesterday. But first, I noticed the images/links of the seed packs with the descriptions and the labeling of f4's or f5's for some reason is no longer available. Im just wondering if I should attempt to upload them again, or if they were removed for a reason? I felt that the images of the packs were important to this thread because they clearly state the filial generation of the seeds. And as Miraculous Meds has already said, we should go by what Dj himself advertises them to be and not what we want to call them.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Hey all, I have a few things in regards to the comments since yesterday. But first, I noticed the images/links of the seed packs with the descriptions and the labeling of f4's or f5's for some reason is no longer available. Im just wondering if I should attempt to upload them again, or if they were removed for a reason? I felt that the images of the packs were important to this thread because they clearly state the filial generation of the seeds. And as Miraculous Meds has already said, we should go by what Dj himself advertises them to be and not what we want to call them.

I just looked at ur homepage and didn't see any pics or albulms? Did u delete them? If so, they disappear from the posts. Upload them again if u want to. I don't think there is any problem with that.

 

[just_asking]

I musta deleted em. Thanks for the heads up Miraculous Meds.

I think I see where I've been having some misunderstanding when it comes to terms of 'incrossing vs. outcrossing.'

The only thing that still confuses me is why the packaging on the Azure Haze and Whitaker Blues state that they're f4's or f5's if they're more accurately described as f2's?

In regards to the genetics in question I found this written by Dj;

"The place for breeding to begin is with choosing the parent plants, called the P1 generation. For best breeding results you use true-breeding stabilized strains as your P1's. Different breeders have different standards as to what qualifies as a P1. I have very high standards for my P1 generation. For me, the P1 must be either a fully acclimated, region-of-origin land-race variety, or no more than one generation removed, and crossed with itself or another highly similar, region-of-origin land-race variety."

According to Dj, his Flo when crossed with the f4 bb dad fits this criteria as Miraculous Meds has stated.

Thanks for the help Miraculous.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I musta deleted em. Thanks for the heads up Miraculous Meds.

I think I see where I've been having some misunderstanding when it comes to terms of 'incrossing vs. outcrossing.'

The only thing that still confuses me is why the packaging on the Azure Haze and Whitaker Blues state that they're f4's or f5's if they're more accurately described as f2's?

In regards to the genetics in question I found this written by Dj;

"The place for breeding to begin is with choosing the parent plants, called the P1 generation. For best breeding results you use true-breeding stabilized strains as your P1's. Different breeders have different standards as to what qualifies as a P1. I have very high standards for my P1 generation. For me, the P1 must be either a fully acclimated, region-of-origin land-race variety, or no more than one generation removed, and crossed with itself or another highly similar, region-of-origin land-race variety."

According to Dj, his Flo when crossed with the f4 bb dad fits this criteria as Miraculous Meds has stated.

Thanks for the help Miraculous.

My pleasure brother. Ive studied, and read everything I could from dj. Just a big fan of what he does and what he stands for. His bb strain is truly stabilized, and will pass on specific traits very consistently.

The packaging for the azure and whit, is a bit misleading. the back print is just a cut and copy for all his seed packs. So while its accurate for his inline work, not so for the outcrosses. The outcrosses were actually done by his son jd, but just distributed thru dj.

So the azure and whitaker are f1's since they are outcrosses. to make azure f2 u would simply make seeds with the f1 stock.