-
ICMag with help from Phlizon, Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest for Christmas! You can check it here. Prizes are: full spectrum led light, seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Tutorial DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds R.C.Clarke Method as Base
- Thread starter Douglas.Curtis
- Start date
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Very difficult to tell, and I would mix more fresh if at all possible for best results.
CannaRed
Cannabinerd
I'm going to try this again.
I still have my stock solutions and the leftover mixed up solution from last try.
How do you all think the best way to try a stronger solution is? Add some of my silver stock solution to the already mixed? Make a whole new mixed solution?
any ideas on amounts? I feel like I'm pulled in a million directions in life and can't come up with the brain power to see the best way. thanks!!!
Hi. What can be the reason for the lack of pollen in male flowers? The plant normally began to produce men's flowers after sprinkler with silver but in flowers there is no pollen. After some time, they fall from old age without creating pollen. The STS concentration was not too high, another plant gave pollen.
Last edited:
Ive found that can happen with to many sprays.
if making a strong solution only 1 sprays is needed going into 12/12.
when i sprayed several times with a strong sollution the same thing happened , it fully reversed but no pollen or 5% of normal pollen
I used a very low concentration, a few generation previously sprayed the same strain with a stronger solution and then gave pollen, that's why it is a mystery.
I used to read such a theory that at a very inbred strain more difficult to get seeds through feminizations.
After spraying the plant, the ethylene blocker does not work eternally and with time it is less and less. So if the theory about too high concentration is, however, it is true at the end of life of the plant, there should also appear flowers with pollen, because the concentration in the plant will then be lower than on the first flowers.
I used to read such a theory that at a very inbred strain more difficult to get seeds through feminizations.
After spraying the plant, the ethylene blocker does not work eternally and with time it is less and less. So if the theory about too high concentration is, however, it is true at the end of life of the plant, there should also appear flowers with pollen, because the concentration in the plant will then be lower than on the first flowers.
I believe the concentration and the number of sprays needed to perform a reversal is dependent upon the strain being reversed. Some strains reverse quite easily, others are very resistant. In my post above, i provided the link to TonyGreen’s experiment with STS where he tried different concentrations and spray schedules. It’s a good read.
My advice is to experiment until you find what works with the strain you are attempting to reverse. Please keep us posted.
My advice is to experiment until you find what works with the strain you are attempting to reverse. Please keep us posted.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
My friend has tried over 100 reversals to different plants with success every time.
Mix a fresh batch then,
Full strength sts (no dilution) on day 1 and 15. Biggest things to watch out for mistakes imo are the version of sodium thiosulfate your using. And that the pollen donor plant needs to be started much earlier to match up pollen drop to seed bearing plants. My friends recomendation is 2 weeks early for indicas, 3 weeks for hybrids, and 4 weeks plus for long sativa.
Sodium pentahydrate needs to be mixed at a ratio of 3.9g to .5g silver nitrate. While sodium anhydrous needs a ratio of 2.5g to .5g silver nitrate. I mixed up these and used the pentahydrate at lower concentration and only got one plant to fully reverse out of 16.
And for the second mishap, I can see if I didnt know about the delayed pollen drop, that I may think the process didnt work. When in fact, if I waited another week or 2 pollen drops. Hope that helps some out there.
I had success using 1 to 9 dilution every 3 days untill day 21 of flower. But after understanding my ratio of sodium thiosulfate mistake, I feel they all would have reversed if given the correct ratio. So it seems 1 to 9 all the way up to full strength works. If your looking for a increased concentration, ive seen reports of 1 to 2, 1 to 3, and 1 to 7 working well for people. I think again what we are seeing is the 2 reasons i mentioned causing a lot of the mis haps. Make sure your mixing the right concentration and wait patiently for pollen drop. Like day 30 all the way to day 55 before pollen drop.
CannaRed
Cannabinerd
Thanks for your help.
I used 3.9 pent.
sprayed 5 days before flip and every 5 days afterwards. There wasn't anything to drop. No pod production, just regular female growth.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Re mix a fresh batch of stock concentrate and follow the process. Skip the 5 days before flip spray, from my understanding its pointless. Good luck on the next trial, its always a bummer when plans don't work out.
CannaRed
Cannabinerd
Life's been crazy around here.. never a break. Lol.
I'm going to make a new sts stock solution tomorrow.
I am going to try double the amount.
I grabbed a couple extra peroxide bottles.
I want to keep my old solution and try it on a different strain that might be easier to reverse.
so twice the ratio would be the same amount of stock a (50ml) and the same amount of stock b added to half the amount of distilled water (450ml)
correct?
Thanks for the help everyone!
DC, you still around?
I'm going to make a new sts stock solution tomorrow.
I am going to try double the amount.
I grabbed a couple extra peroxide bottles.
I want to keep my old solution and try it on a different strain that might be easier to reverse.
so twice the ratio would be the same amount of stock a (50ml) and the same amount of stock b added to half the amount of distilled water (450ml)
correct?
Thanks for the help everyone!
DC, you still around?
Thats correct, reading this and Tony's thread it seems stronger can work maybe better.
From Tony"s the Sigma is stronger and i worked out the rates for me
Prepare a 0.1 M Silver Nitrate stock solution by dissolving 1.7 g of Silver Nitrate into 100 ml of water (or 0.85g to 50ml)
Prepare a 0.1 M Sodium Thiosulfate (STS) stock solution by dissolving 10 g sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate 400ml of water (or 5gm to 200ml)
Pour 20ml silver in to 80ml sodium slowly, then in to 560ml water (3mM)
I'll probably mix up the rates in brackets as I'm only spraying one plant and i can mix up some more stock if needs be.
I'l spray flip > 7 >14 in a few weeks.
Wish me luck
Edit > Oh yeah good luck CannaRed
Last edited:
I just flush mine down the sink...
probably if you'd really want to do it the right way that's not the way, I guess the silver in there would classify as heavy metal pollution? for cut flowers they also don't routinely use STS anymore because of the environmental concerns, that's one of the reasons 1-MCP is used mostly (that compound is fully organic, as in it's a hydrocarbon, so breaks down without releasing metal ions).
but the scale at which I'm disposing of STS is so small that I think it's not such a big deal, I'm throwing away maybe a couple tens of milliliters (of diluted ready to use solution) every half year or so. and upon washing it down the sink that also gets diluted to a much lower concentration.
(I've also worked in a professional lab, and also there still plenty of stuff went down the drain in the sink. not sure if the pipes were just connected to the sewage system like a residential house, but I don't think there really was a special treatment of the waste water. ofcourse it's not procedure to just wash everything down the drain, there are regulations for specific (classes of) chemicals, but there's plenty of stuff that's harmless enough to simply flush down, especially small quantities like what's still clinging to the inside of a beaker when you clean it. for traces of ethididium bromide the procedure was also to just flush it down, and keep the tap running for a while to dilute it)
probably if you'd really want to do it the right way that's not the way, I guess the silver in there would classify as heavy metal pollution? for cut flowers they also don't routinely use STS anymore because of the environmental concerns, that's one of the reasons 1-MCP is used mostly (that compound is fully organic, as in it's a hydrocarbon, so breaks down without releasing metal ions).
but the scale at which I'm disposing of STS is so small that I think it's not such a big deal, I'm throwing away maybe a couple tens of milliliters (of diluted ready to use solution) every half year or so. and upon washing it down the sink that also gets diluted to a much lower concentration.
(I've also worked in a professional lab, and also there still plenty of stuff went down the drain in the sink. not sure if the pipes were just connected to the sewage system like a residential house, but I don't think there really was a special treatment of the waste water. ofcourse it's not procedure to just wash everything down the drain, there are regulations for specific (classes of) chemicals, but there's plenty of stuff that's harmless enough to simply flush down, especially small quantities like what's still clinging to the inside of a beaker when you clean it. for traces of ethididium bromide the procedure was also to just flush it down, and keep the tap running for a while to dilute it)
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Yep, still around just busy busy busy. 
The non-pollen dropping and non-viable pollen is definitely over saturation with silver, since the later pods definitely have viable pollen when plants are left to continue producing. Completely not surprised to see stronger concentrations working, while having the non-pollen and non-viable pollen issues.
I have a theory where the best results should come from plants showing both female and male flowers.
The non-pollen dropping and non-viable pollen is definitely over saturation with silver, since the later pods definitely have viable pollen when plants are left to continue producing. Completely not surprised to see stronger concentrations working, while having the non-pollen and non-viable pollen issues.
I have a theory where the best results should come from plants showing both female and male flowers.
STS femmed seed has been known to produce a male every 5k seeds or so, and stray pollen is considered the main reason for higher numbers in a batch.
CannaRed
Cannabinerd
Still can't get my PurpAl to do anything other than what she always does.
made double strength STS. Sprayed 5 days before flip, and every 5 days since.
The only problem I see this time, is PurpAl is sensitive to being in a small pot and will start to bloom before the flip. Pistils we're showing when I started spraying 5 days before flip. I'm not sure if that would cause it not to reverse or not?
made double strength STS. Sprayed 5 days before flip, and every 5 days since.
The only problem I see this time, is PurpAl is sensitive to being in a small pot and will start to bloom before the flip. Pistils we're showing when I started spraying 5 days before flip. I'm not sure if that would cause it not to reverse or not?
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
That's awesome! Unless there are signs of stress I would increase the frequency to 3 days with the double dose and try again. A few pistils should not matter a bit, you'd still get some male flowers after a couple weeks.
Unless there are signs of stress I would increase the frequency to 3 days with the double dose and try again. A few pistils should not matter a bit, you'd still get some male flowers after a couple weeks.
