DIY leds Discussion Thread for all your how tos and doubts and anything related

[jonesfam7715]

Got all my stuff to water cool some cobs. I got a flow sensor and relay to protect the cobs if the pump gives out. Don't really know how reliable it all is. I'll probably do 1 rail first to see how i like it i have 4 aluminum rails in total, cobs are cmu2287 & LRS-600 to power em

 

[Aristoned]

Got all my stuff to water cool some cobs. I got a flow sensor and relay to protect the cobs if the pump gives out. Don't really know how reliable it all is. I'll probably do 1 rail first to see how i like it i have 4 aluminum rails in total, cobs are cmu2287 & LRS-600 to power em View attachment 19175260

This has been a thought for some time now.

 

[jonesfam7715]

This has been a thought for some time now.

I know right, to much going on. I didn't want to try it till I got some safety measures to protect the cobs

 

[Drop That Sound]

I pulled the UVA, UVB is just bad news.

I’m suspecting if you can limit how much UVA exposure we could find some benefit. At this point I lack the ability to add that variable.

So, given that blue light is used the least with cannabis I’m really not too concerned.

Just an FYI, all the reptile basking "UV" lamps that aren't either HO t-5 floros, or at least the crappy screw in long straight tube (avoid the spiral kind) 26w CFLs are a complete lie. The halogens and incandescent spot lamps they sell are nothing more than IR heat for basking (basically just standard household floodlight/spot bulbs with a higher price markup, and maaaybe a little better protection against splashes, and a tighter footprint be a few degrees), and the sellers advertising them as "UVA" or B with a lizard on the packaging is straight up false advertising, with no shame in their game. Ask anyone on the reptile forums, or just read through the reviews to find out the truth. They don't really put out squat for any usable UVs.. if at all, especially in the UVB range like many claim too. Your reptiles will suffer from metabolic disease if you believe what the packaging on the bulbs say, and fail to also install a proper UVA/B bulb along side of the incandescent heat lamps. Need 2 separate lamps, one for IR and one for the UV, and they even make dual bulb domes and hoods. There is no single bulb that provides both, that isn't some specialized HID anyway..

Not that you're trying to grow lizards, but just figured you should know most the "UVA" basking light bulbs out there are a scam.

Thanks for the heads up on the IR halogen G9s. I almost got some too, just for kicks. Figured they were just standard halogens with a red coating but yeah.. I'll stick with clear bare bulb halogens @ 2700-3000k, which somewhat depends on how dimmed they are.

I almost got the MR11 style halogens with the built in narrow beam glass reflectors, but the lower wattage bulbs I want all have an extra glass lens that would need to be busted out.. you know, for that extra UV that is barely there anyway. The bigger 20w MR16 ones are hit or miss on if they have the extra glass filter. I'm sure its easy to break it out, but not worth the risk.

I'm just gonna bare bulb a bunch of 10w low voltage G4 halogen bulbs, with DIY polished aluminum reflectors instead, all spread out evenly. between the LEDs.

^ Also, I'm gonna try bending the electrodes down more like G4s, and see if I can push these 11w wedge style incandescents into the pin holes on the same g4 sockets I ordered for the hally's, so I don't need extra adapters when swaping. I'll spot weld or solder new pins on if I have to make them work. Gonna try LV halogen and incandescent both. Separate runs first, then maybe even use a combo of both at some point..

 

[SwS]

Bro, I was running (x12) 590mm 4000K 80 CRI EB3 Slims over 1,000 ppfd.

With (x25) 1190mm strips I could build a luminaire that produces over 4,000 ppfd.

Bro where were you all this time lol. Already bought the 2 lumii's, I saw your build earlier and they look clean . Having probs with the landlord atm so in the process of looking for a new house. Told the wife I want a room this time and not the garage for my breeding projects. So I might go the diy route when the time comes since the 2 lumii's won't cover a full room and think it will be cheaper to light a full room with strips that I can space evenly for coverage.But I will get in touch once we found the new space.

 

[SwS]

The B is ~80% of a C, that would mean you could veg a 4x4 with (x4) under-driving. With veg I wouldn’t worry about a lens or a reflector, those 4K’s make too much light and you will find yourself turning them down.



One of those loops will cool one (1) COB.

Just one.

FYI

I have abandoned the cob cooling idea lol.
Too many parts for possible failure.

 

[Ttystikk]

Got all my stuff to water cool some cobs. I got a flow sensor and relay to protect the cobs if the pump gives out. Don't really know how reliable it all is. I'll probably do 1 rail first to see how i like it i have 4 aluminum rails in total, cobs are cmu2287 & LRS-600 to power em View attachment 19175260

Well this looks interesting!

What does the rest of the water loop look like?

 

[SwS]

Got all my stuff to water cool some cobs. I got a flow sensor and relay to protect the cobs if the pump gives out. Don't really know how reliable it all is. I'll probably do 1 rail first to see how i like it i have 4 aluminum rails in total, cobs are cmu2287 & LRS-600 to power em View attachment 19175260

Awesome bro , I think I'm more excited then you to see how it performs.

 

[Aristoned]

Just an FYI, all the reptile basking "UV" lamps that aren't either HO t-5 floros, or at least the crappy screw in long straight tube (avoid the spiral kind) 26w CFLs are a complete lie. The halogens and incandescent spot lamps they sell are nothing more than IR heat for basking (basically just standard household floodlight/spot bulbs with a higher price markup, and maaaybe a little better protection against splashes, and a tighter footprint be a few degrees), and the sellers advertising them as "UVA" or B with a lizard on the packaging is straight up false advertising, with no shame in their game. Ask anyone on the reptile forums, or just read through the reviews to find out the truth. They don't really put out squat for any usable UVs.. if at all, especially in the UVB range like many claim too. Your reptiles will suffer from metabolic disease if you believe what the packaging on the bulbs say, and fail to also install a proper UVA/B bulb along side of the incandescent heat lamps. Need 2 separate lamps, one for IR and one for the UV, and they even make dual bulb domes and hoods. There is no single bulb that provides both, that isn't some specialized HID anyway..

Not that you're trying to grow lizards, but just figured you should know most the "UVA" basking light bulbs out there are a scam.

Thanks for the heads up on the IR halogen G9s. I almost got some too, just for kicks. Figured they were just standard halogens with a red coating but yeah.. I'll stick with clear bare bulb halogens @ 2700-3000k, which somewhat depends on how dimmed they are.

I almost got the MR11 style halogens with the built in narrow beam glass reflectors, but the lower wattage bulbs I want all have an extra glass lens that would need to be busted out.. you know, for that extra UV that is barely there anyway. The bigger 20w MR16 ones are hit or miss on if they have the extra glass filter. I'm sure its easy to break it out, but not worth the risk.

I'm just gonna bare bulb a bunch of 10w low voltage G4 halogen bulbs, with DIY polished aluminum reflectors instead, all spread out evenly. between the LEDs.

View attachment 19175370
^ Also, I'm gonna try bending the electrodes down more like G4s, and see if I can push these 11w wedge style incandescents into the pin holes on the same g4 sockets I ordered for the hally's, so I don't need extra adapters when swaping. I'll spot weld or solder new pins on if I have to make them work. Gonna try LV halogen and incandescent both. Separate runs first, then maybe even use a combo of both at some point..

The halogen makes tons of light and plenty of IR, I’m not going to be using them as a main source but a supplement, for my use I’m finding the incandescent to be easier to place in the tent. Incandescent aren’t nearly as bright as the halogen, the one heat lamp for chickens could have covered both plants easily.

I wouldn’t sway anyone away from them because of me, the halogen is more powerful than the incandescent and I was getting plenty of IR from 100W dual and the 250W-175W heater.

One thing to note, I did not have difficulty with temperatures and 325W of IR.

Cheers!

 

[Aristoned]

Bro where were you all this time lol. Already bought the 2 lumii's, I saw your build earlier and they look clean . Having probs with the landlord atm so in the process of looking for a new house. Told the wife I want a room this time and not the garage for my breeding projects. So I might go the diy route when the time comes since the 2 lumii's won't cover a full room and think it will be cheaper to light a full room with strips that I can space evenly for coverage.But I will get in touch once we found the new space.

No worries, Bridgelux makes a very good diode for the money. I find the Vero’s to be too powerful in the 4000K, I could use just one Vero 29 C to illuminate 5 sq. ft. @ ~70W with 36-48” above the canopy passively cooled. The strips will be a bit more involved building, but the slims are fucking worth every red cent.

Put it this way, there isn’t a single luminaire on the market today that can match anything I build with Bridgelux for the price or performance or price to performance.

It is simply impossible.

Now, I haven’t completely tested the EB3 Slim line of products. I have way more experience with the Vero 29 C in flower than any strip, so I won’t be posting about that process until I know what I am talking about.

Cheers!

 

[jonesfam7715]

Well this looks interesting!

What does the rest of the water loop look like?

Copper tubing, not saying it's a cheaper option just what I have available on hand. I have a couple 1/2" coils probably 80' In total length. Plus I have a couple automotive radiators I could play with. I was thinking of running the cooling loops under the shop, it would be cool to bury it, but to much work.

 

[Ca++]

Before I fully experienced LED growing, I thought water cooling would be a big thing. Now after using LED a while, I'm adding heaters. My only reason to take their heat away, in my climate, would be to warm the inlet air with it. Which now I think about it, could be a genuine heat gain.

I think two pumps would be nice. Perhaps on separate supplies. Allowing for a pump failure, and adding the static pressure of each together. AC radiators use pipe bores 10-13mm quite often. Car coolant rad construction is two tanks and a number of tubes. Water distribution between them tubes, relies on a good flow. The AC rad is often a long coil, not tanks. Though the double pump might become a requirement. I use central heater circulator pumps a lot, which often have a switch for 50w 70w 100w or such. There lifetime is very good, even with plant food, instead of corrosion inhibitor.

These look rolled, not extruded

 

[Neferhotep]

after using LED a while, I'm adding heaters.

Same here. So watercool or not, you better keep that little warmth inside.
As for the 1/2" tubing, the resistance in a long thin tube is immense so you'll need a high pressure pump for that, or cut the tubing in pieces for parallel tubing.
The pressure drop in 4 × 20' parallel is 1/16th of the pressure drop in 80' single.

Easier is probably some large diameter plastic tubing and a radiator with a fan on the ground where the air is coolest.

The pump on the picture, what pump is it exactly?

 

[Aristoned]

Same here. So watercool or not, you better keep that little warmth inside.
As for the 1/2" tubing, the resistance in a long thin tube is immense so you'll need a high pressure pump for that, or cut the tubing in pieces for parallel tubing.
The pressure drop in 4 × 20' parallel is 1/16th of the pressure drop in 80' single.

Easier is probably some large diameter plastic tubing and a radiator with a fan on the ground where the air is coolest.

The pump on the picture, what pump is it exactly?

I had my Kush running at 88-89° F with no issues under LED, however, I want my LED’s running cool.

I placed a fan above my COB’s and I like it.

Cheers!

 

[Ca++]

I put a tiny PC fan on my QB, and the fan made more lumens per watt, than the light

For some reason, car radiator, had me picturing intercooler. Rads do have small pipes. I have soldered up a few in the past, when my 17yo self kept getting introduced to hedges. The rad has big pipes and tanks, but it's adaptable.
I would still use the AC rad though. I always use capable pumps. The white one shown, I kinda recognise as a DC centrifugal with about 5m head. The heating pump is £40 delivered, and takes tap connectors used for garden hose. Most homes are microbore now, with 10mm or even 8mm common sizes.
My oldest heating pump, must of come out a derelict house 30 years ago. It was as filthy then as now. It could be 50yo, and has run dry too many times. They have a screwdriver slot to free the rotor when they seize through such abuse. Also, they run quiet. I may take it out of service soon, as I fear the housing must be eroding. I may keep it as a pencil sharpener or something. It's a lifelong friend now

 

[big315smooth]

so far so good with the led switching over from t5 plants are beasting. kinda cool wont have to to buy hps bulbs all the time how many years you guys been running your leds do they hold up after awhile?

 

[Neferhotep]

The AC rad is often a long coil

Exactly and my aquarium pump couldn't handle it. I have quite a large AC rad as external CPU water cooler. I customized the rad to have four parallel circuits in stead of one. It depends on the pump. Mine has 1.5 m max head.

your leds do they hold up

Mine run so cool I don't expect them to degrade next ten years.

 

[Aristoned]

so far so good with the led switching over from t5 plants are beasting. kinda cool wont have to to buy hps bulbs all the time how many years you guys been running your leds do they hold up after awhile?

Temperature is everything. Keep it at or below recommended for long-life.

 

[greyfader]

i think most of you have seen this before but i think it is pertinent to this conversation about building led lights.

in this video, bugbee shows the leaf penetration of far-red. this is the main difference between heat from far-red and ambient heat. i think this causes not only internal heating of the leaf but a vibrational quality at the molecular level that ambient heat alone does not provide. all electromagnetic radiation oscillates.

far-red does not heat the medium through which it travels, in this case, air, but rather the target that it hits. i think this is why we need both far-red and ambient heat. ambient heat is heating the entire surface area of the plant and far-red heats just the canopy leaves exposed to direct radiation.

any far-red that is not captured by the canopy is heating the floor and walls of the growth chamber but is either reflected, absorbed, or transmitted by the substance. highly reflective material will transmit heat back into the space as well as light.

also, in this video, he talks about the morphological changes that different wavelengths cause. he shows that blue inhibits cell expansion and far-red increases cell expansion.

this is why i think we need switchable lights. indoors we need short, fat plants in the vegetative and so-called stretch phases and then cell expansion in the flowering phase.

using high-intensity white light in the 4000k-6500k ranges keeps plants compact. most white light leds do not contain wavelengths over about 650nm and therefore cannot cause a red/far-red elongation response.

at the end of the stretch phase and flower set has occurred the plant won't stretch anymore so adding far-red at that time will cause cell expansion without stem elongation.

so, i believe the timing of the application of far-red is important.

i have heard the argument that a red-heavy spectrum causes dilution of cannabinoids and terpenes by mass expansion but i do not believe that is true if the plant has been heavily entrained with a blue-heavy spectrum up until the end of stretch.

there is a lag time in plant responses, a hysteresis, that can be taken advantage of by manipulating the temporal application of various wavelengths.

i believe high intensity in the vegetative stage influences this. trichomes don't just pop up at the switch to flowering. they're in development throughout the life of the plant.

far-red is, of course, part of the infrared portion of the spectrum. and, it is the hottest portion of it as well. a blackbody radiator, which is a temperature gauge, clearly shows that the temperature of infrared drops radically after about 780-800nm. the plant has been entrained by evolution to use a continuous curve of radiation not a specific nm.

hard to do with led alone but not impossible. i think a blend of far-red diodes would function better than a single diode at 735-750nm.

most white light diodes start life as blue and are coated by phosphors to achieve color temperature but the high-class and more expensive way to build a white light fixture is with a blend of monochromatic diodes.

incandescent and halogen produce a smooth curve encompassing all nm in the range. we don't see grow light manufacturers using them because it skewers overall light electrical efficiency. and that is a big selling point these days.

expense and price point dictate the build and marketing strategy for light manufacturers but diy light builders are not so restricted.

so, it would be nice to see completely tunable fixtures that can adapt to all phases of growth rather than compromised, one-size-fits-all ones that don't really perform well at any one phase.

 

[Aristoned]

i think most of you have seen this before but i think it is pertinent to this conversation about building led lights.

in this video, bugbee shows the leaf penetration of far-red. this is the main difference between heat from far-red and ambient heat. i think this causes not only internal heating of the leaf but a vibrational quality at the molecular level that ambient heat alone does not provide. all electromagnetic radiation oscillates.

far-red does not heat the medium through which it travels, in this case, air, but rather the target that it hits. i think this is why we need both far-red and ambient heat. ambient heat is heating the entire surface area of the plant and far-red heats just the canopy leaves exposed to direct radiation.

any far-red that is not captured by the canopy is heating the floor and walls of the growth chamber but is either reflected, absorbed, or transmitted by the substance. highly reflective material will transmit heat back into the space as well as light.

also, in this video, he talks about the morphological changes that different wavelengths cause. he shows that blue inhibits cell expansion and far-red increases cell expansion.

this is why i think we need switchable lights. indoors we need short, fat plants in the vegetative and so-called stretch phases and then cell expansion in the flowering phase.

using high-intensity white light in the 4000k-6500k ranges keeps plants compact. most white light leds do not contain wavelengths over about 650nm and therefore cannot cause a red/far-red elongation response.

at the end of the stretch phase and flower set has occurred the plant won't stretch anymore so adding far-red at that time will cause cell expansion without stem elongation.

so, i believe the timing of the application of far-red is important.

i have heard the argument that a red-heavy spectrum causes dilution of cannabinoids and terpenes by mass expansion but i do not believe that is true if the plant has been heavily entrained with a blue-heavy spectrum up until the end of stretch.

there is a lag time in plant responses, a hysteresis, that can be taken advantage of by manipulating the temporal application of various wavelengths.

i believe high intensity in the vegetative stage influences this. trichomes don't just pop up at the switch to flowering. they're in development throughout the life of the plant.

far-red is, of course, part of the infrared portion of the spectrum. and, it is the hottest portion of it as well. a blackbody radiator, which is a temperature gauge, clearly shows that the temperature of infrared drops radically after about 780-800nm. the plant has been entrained by evolution to use a continuous curve of radiation not a specific nm.

hard to do with led alone but not impossible. i think a blend of far-red diodes would function better than a single diode at 735-750nm.

most white light diodes start life as blue and are coated by phosphors to achieve color temperature but the high-class and more expensive way to build a white light fixture is with a blend of monochromatic diodes.

incandescent and halogen produce a smooth curve encompassing all nm in the range. we don't see grow light manufacturers using them because it skewers overall light electrical efficiency. and that is a big selling point these days.

expense and price point dictate the build and marketing strategy for light manufacturers but diy light builders are not so restricted.

so, it would be nice to see completely tunable fixtures that can adapt to all phases of growth rather than compromised, one-size-fits-all ones that don't really perform well at any one phase.

The lights on the market are not professional grade lights, they are made for the layman.