DIY leds Discussion Thread for all your how tos and doubts and anything related

[Neferhotep]

you should be able to mount them on that qb style heatsink

When mounting on a heatsink you should use TIM, thermal interface material. So that's glue, paste or some sticker. If you don't do that it's better to dump the heatsink and provide cooling air.

 

[Aristoned]

I'm really not all that big a fan of sealed gardens either (or even a closed off room) , unless there is the proper equipment to scrub the stale air, which cost another small fortune to setup the right way, in my book anyway.

No offense to anyones products, but yeah..
I prefer fresh incoming filtered air at all times (just like outside, where 400ppm co2 grows huge monsters no problem), even at the cost of heating the atmosphere to some extent ( which is no where near as bad if utilizing HRV/ERV, or geothermal\heatpump tech!), for the freshest product, free from all the particulates that otherwise contaminate the air in most houses/structures. The air is always multiple times worse inside buildings, unless your maintaining a high class clean room.

I'm the guy that always has his window down when driving, even in the winter down the freeway. I was also somewhat forced to work entire winters out of a metal shop with no insulation in the past, and relied on propane burners that were probably pushing the levels up to 30-40k ppm c02, and had to breath it in for 8 hrs or more a day, so yeah I probably am a little biased. I'm not closing up the doors and windows to a room and being claustrophobic when working just so LEDs will work. Not without that warm golden inefficient glow to supplement them anyway, which is kind of inviting actually. Almost like some long lost natural instinct, to crawl down in a cave with torches on the walls.. That I can do

I have animals in there, plenty of CO2 to go around. Flora and Fauna have a symbiotic relationship. The windows get opened almost everyday, weather permitting, to exchange the air normally.

I’m absolutely astonished at how well I can hold temperature with the IR and not only that I am producing real IR, not LED IR, actual photo-radiant heat.

She loves it!

 

[Aristoned]

I wasn't talking to you.

Oooo, you’re butt hurt.

 

[Aristoned]

When mounting on a heatsink you should use TIM, thermal interface material. So that's glue, paste or some sticker. If you don't do that it's better to dump the heatsink and provide cooling air.

Clamping pressure and thermal grease is my preference.

 

[Wolverine97]

Oooo, you’re butt hurt.

What is it like to go through life as a complete, un-serious clown? Does it hurt?
You get mocked relentlessly, for good reason, and you persist with the nonsense. Cool story. Meanwhile, there are plenty of serious dudes around here, who quietly trade elite things you can only imagine being able to grow. And it's because of how you behave, and carry yourself.

Make me laugh, clown!

 

[Drop That Sound]

I'm really digging LEDs now, and been trying to catch up to evrything under the sun LED. So much out there now. Been pimping everything with IC RGBs, and completed some awesome non grow related builds too. Getting hooked in finally, now that they've proven to perform so well for photosynthesis. Can't wait to upgrade from fooling with household SILs to the slim strips. Or can I? I'm pretty impressed with the inefficient screw in bulbs actually.

I want every possible lighting technology built into one package though. I want it all; low voltage flicker free Halogens, incandescents, xenon arc (the closest thing to the sun BTW, but needs special filters or water jackets to replicate\emulate the exact solar spectrum you want.. unless for some reason its the 35-50w auto headlight versions that blind everyone on the road?).. HIDs, LECs, LEDs for every wavelength, induction, you name it.

Not large single 100-1k+ watt bulbs either, but a whole grid full of multiple smaller ceramic HPS and MH HID bulbs, which puts archaic single ended HID tech on another level, and never really gets compared to. Its not fair that 20-70w mini ceramics cost $60 for a single bulb now (and even more for a mini ballast), only because LED took over. They would cost a few dollars at the most if still in mass production, and be even more advanced with colors, etc. No more hot spots, and many other pros to having lower wattage HID grid lighting panels.

Either way, I want the whole package, all in one fixture, LEDs and all. For running multiple tests and figuring out how to manipulate growth exactly how I want. Watch it in real time, day by day, and with timelapse cameras.. Just by turning a few knobs, and selecting from an infinite amount of the known spectrum combos and all the lighting tech that I can possibly cram into one unit. No matter what environment its placed into, with built in IR heating when needed..
I wanna discover unknown effects if possible, just like Emerson did. By experimenting and messing around.. Ahh yeah

 

[Ca++]

The newer LEC lighting is not the same as CMH

The name is newer. Nothing else has changed. It's just rebranding, to make it seem an elite product. So you keep buying it from the same single supplier, not realising it's the same stuff most people are leaving behind.

That seller isn't in the business of developing new types of lighting. They are not Philips or Osram. They are just a corner shop in comparison, selling fake tobacco.

 

[Wolverine97]

The name is newer. Nothing else has changed. It's just rebranding, to make it seem an elite product. So you keep buying it from the same single supplier, not realising it's the same stuff most people are leaving behind.

That seller isn't in the business of developing new types of lighting. They are not Philips or Osram. They are just a corner shop in comparison, selling fake tobacco.

You are wrong (and not just about LEC being very different from the old CMH), but okay. I don't care enough to get into a long back and forth about it. We have been through this before, and you don't seem to listen, or accept new information.

 

[Ca++]

You are wrong (and not just about LEC being very different from the old CMH), but okay. I don't care enough to get into a long back and forth about it.

I can't prove an orange is an orange for you. You see it, or you don't.
You could find a difference though, if one existed.

But back to LED, unless you can actually find an LEC that's not a CMH. In some way other than by name.

Edit: It seems Sun Systems can't get lamps anymore. Whoever was branding them LEC has got out the market I imagine. They still sell the Philips cmh gear in their lec labeled box, but "The 315 LEC®/CMH lamp (sold separately)" is all they say. They don't have any.
Others have found the 315 getting harder to source, and prices are getting silly. This is also happening to HPS, though will take longer.
The electronic CMH revolution was over very quickly. I missed it entirely. Long live the LED

 

[Aristoned]

What is it like to go through life as a complete, un-serious clown? Does it hurt?
You get mocked relentlessly, for good reason, and you persist with the nonsense. Cool story. Meanwhile, there are plenty of serious dudes around here, who quietly trade elite things you can only imagine being able to grow. And it's because of how you behave, and carry yourself.

Make me laugh, clown!

“Elite”?!

So, you’re a homosexual?



This section is for “DIY leds Discussion Thread for all your how tos and doubts and anything related” and you post about how much you love Cermaic Metal Halides?

Are you using the archaic CMH to supplement your vegetation?

You sound like the kid that sat in the corner eating his own buggers, now you live in a fantasy world where you are “god”.

STFU, STFD.

You come in here, off-topic, and insult community members?

Loser.

 

[Aristoned]

I can't prove an orange is an orange for you. You see it, or you don't.
You could find a difference though, if one existed.

But back to LED, unless you can actually find an LEC that's not a CMH. In some way other than by name.

Edit: It seems Sun Systems can't get lamps anymore. Whoever was branding them LEC has got out the market I imagine. They still sell the Philips cmh gear in their lec labeled box, but "The 315 LEC®/CMH lamp (sold separately)" is all they say. They don't have any.
Others have found the 315 getting harder to source, and prices are getting silly. This is also happening to HPS, though will take longer.
The electronic CMH revolution was over very quickly. I missed it entirely. Long live the LED

I can purchase a 1000W HPS, ballast, reflector, glass hood and bulb for $100 brand new. I’m rather sure it was a digital ballast as well.

Crazy!

 

[Ca++]

I can purchase a 1000W HPS, ballast, reflector, glass hood and bulb for $100 brand new. I’m rather sure it was a digital ballast as well.

Crazy!

Edit: No LED related info in this post

Yeah, I'm seeing 600w ballasts at $25, which have alloy cases I can't buy for that much. I think while they have the tooling, and buyers, they will keep making it to keep factories open. Philips said they were getting out years ago. It's the Hungarian lamps that will hang on, after the big names have lost interest. I must get a box of greenpower, as £30 is £50 now. With suppliers drying up, as I guess the number of production sites shrinks. There is no future in them, and one day our governments will simply ban them. Gone are incandescent. Gone are halogens. Gone are florescents. Non are to be made, or imported for the UK. It's old stock only, or special purpose. With dates set for UV flo removal, as LED can do that now. The HID has no real reason to go in a new build or refit now. Not that I can think of.
A quick search, has wholesalers already backing out, and dates a couple of years away. The Philips site has a document says one guy, but I can't see it, as as usual.. late for work looking at IC

 

[Aristoned]

Yeah, I'm seeing 600w ballasts at $25, which have alloy cases I can't buy for that much. I think while they have the tooling, and buyers, they will keep making it to keep factories open. Philips said they were getting out years ago. It's the Hungarian lamps that will hang on, after the big names have lost interest. I must get a box of greenpower, as £30 is £50 now. With suppliers drying up, as I guess the number of production sites shrinks. There is no future in them, and one day our governments will simply ban them. Gone are incandescent. Gone are halogens. Gone are florescents. Non are to be made, or imported for the UK. It's old stock only, or special purpose. With dates set for UV flo removal, as LED can do that now. The HID has no real reason to go in a new build or refit now. Not that I can think of.
A quick search, has wholesalers already backing out, and dates a couple of years away. The Philips site has a document says one guy, but I can't see it, as as usual.. late for work looking at IC

Incandescent and halogen are coming back!

I have two in my home that I use for personal lighting. I’m really enjoying 2200K @ 100 CRI.

I’m using incandescent IR bulbs and I’ll be using halogen IR soon.

Agriculture will have these lights forever.

 

[Ttystikk]

I thought this was for LED and not HID.

Either way, I’m not interested in HID if I can get IR from incandescent and halogen. Even the UVA can be supplemented by LED’s now. Based on what I’ve seen you don’t need much at all.

This Kush hates UVA.

Comparisons are valid. Plenty can be learned and quantified by exploring them objectively.

HID is a great source of IR and if you get good additional spectrum from them, so much the better.

 

[Ttystikk]

I won’t get into this here, I’m no animal. I’m an organic sentient being, The Creator has plans for me.

The issue with CO2 is what it does to your body and cells, elevated CO2 will encourage cancer where elevated levels of oxygen kill cancer cells. Also, large amounts of sugar do the same.

Humans share 90% of our DNA with our cats, 82% with our dogs and 67% with mice. Biologically speaking, we are animals. I think whatever/whomever created us did this for good reason. No disrespect meant to your religious beliefs but they aren't science.

You missed the distinction I made about CO2; I said CHRONIC exposure to high levels vs episodic exposure. There's a big difference. OSHA goes into some detail about this, which is one of my primary sources on the topic.

 

[Aristoned]

Animals and Humans are distinct beings.

I do not have “religious beliefs”. I know what I am, I know who I am. This idea that Humans “evolved” from animals has no scientific foundation.

I will say from personal experience any exposure to high levels of CO2 is not good for you. I cannot stress this enough and I cannot stress how valuable just walking through the woods is for us. Our respiration perfectly offsets their respiration. Heck, I wouldn’t doubt that the plants know when we are there and when we are gone.

 

[Aristoned]

@Rocket Soul @Neferhotep @Ttystikk
@greyfader

There is a 250W halogen IR heat lamp and two bulbs on the way.

Some companies are claiming that the halogen version produces twice the amount of IR as the incandescent.

I found mini 50W IR halogen bulbs as well, which look to be very possibly where I end up. The question is, do they make more IR as well as heat or just more heat and less IR?

I’d imagine I could spread those out between the LED strips or run them down both sides of the COB’s.

I also ordered (x3) Vero 29C Gen 8’s in the non-SE version to stick under a CPU heatsink and blast them @ 1.4A!

Exciting times!

 

[Ttystikk]

Thats true, My bad man, like I was putting words in your mouth.. I try my best not to assume, or listen to the voices that only tell me what I "expect" to hear, but still get caught up sometimes..

They are telling me the electric bill would go through the roof though, If I was growing up here in the house in a tent or wherever, and had to keep an entire bedroom or the living space upwards of 85+ degrees to also keep the LED lit grow space the same temp, instead of just using strategically placed incandescent spot lamps that only heat the footprint I want it to, and uses far less energy.. That, or the cost to completely remodel parts of the house. Adding more insulation & sealing it off, which is out of the question for most hobby growers or renters. I don't grow in the house though, or share the same space with plants (just reptiles, thanks to incandescent flood lamps and UVB bulbs), so I do have the option of cranking the heat up if needed to test my new LEDs, but rather just run more HIDs if it comes down to it..

I think the effects of UVA vs UVB need to be studied more carefully.

I fully agree with the desire to reduce energy usage and improving efficiency; I'm building a career around doing exactly that!

If IR and warmer ambient temperatures are interchangeable, that's highly actionable intelligence in terms of optimizing the growing environment. In order to determine that, we need to separate the two and run the experiments. I may be better set up for that than you are.

I used to run 10kW of HID lighting in my room and the plants loved it. It was ONLY 10kW because the ballasts were in the closet next door.

Transpiration was so strong that the dozen plants in the room (my big ones, each on their own 4x6' trellis panels) produced 32 gallons of water every other day, or 16 gallons in 10.5 hours, or roughly 1.5 gallons an hour. My water cooled air handlers discharged a stream of water all day long.

I haven't had the chance to make a direct comparison with an LED setup of the same wattage (it's coming!) but I expect that similar Watts in means similar BTu out and therefore similar transpiration rates.

 

[greyfader]

exposure to any co2 level under 2000ppm won't hurt you.

plants evolved when co2 levels were much higher and still retain the residual ability to respond to elevated levels.

 

[Ttystikk]

I'm really not all that big a fan of sealed gardens either (or even a closed off room) , unless there is the proper equipment to scrub the stale air, which cost another small fortune to setup the right way, in my book anyway.

No offense to anyones products, but yeah..
I prefer fresh incoming filtered air at all times (just like outside, where 400ppm co2 grows huge monsters no problem), even at the cost of heating the atmosphere to some extent ( which is no where near as bad if utilizing HRV/ERV, or geothermal\heatpump tech!), for the freshest product, free from all the particulates that otherwise contaminate the air in most houses/structures. The air is always multiple times worse inside buildings, unless your maintaining a high class clean room.

I'm the guy that always has his window down when driving, even in the winter down the freeway. I was also somewhat forced to work entire winters out of a metal shop with no insulation in the past, and relied on propane burners that were probably pushing the levels up to 30-40k ppm c02, and had to breath it in for 8 hrs or more a day, so yeah I probably am a little biased. I'm not closing up the doors and windows to a room and being claustrophobic when working just so LEDs will work. Not without that warm golden inefficient glow to supplement them anyway, which is kind of inviting actually. Almost like some long lost natural instinct, to crawl down in a cave with torches on the walls.. That I can do

As an HVAC professional with a degree that covers these very IAQ issues in detail, I can tell you that your base assumptions here are incorrect.

First, bad indoor air quality has causes, such as carpets that trap and release dust whenever they're disturbed. Is your grow space carpeted? Also cooking puts a bunch of crud into the air. Are you cooking in or near your grow? Smoking is another big source of bad indoor air quality. DON'T SMOKE AROUND YOUR PLANTS; it clogs their stomata. If you sweep and mop the floors between runs and don't let leaf litter or dirt remain on the floor, your indoor air quality will be fine.

Outdoor air needs to be filtered for dust, spores and chemicals from VOCs to whatever the neighbor is spraying on his lawn - and not everyone is set up to do that effectively. That "fresh" air on the freeway is full of carbon monoxide, dirt and dust, rubber particles from tires, exhaust particulates and even second hand smoke from the guy who just lit his cigarette two cars in front of you. That's a lot of things but it sure ain't fresh air!

CO2 buildup in the grow room will only happen at night; during the day, your plants will voraciously consume all they can within reason.

3-4k PPM of CO2 is the OSHA limit, depending on exposure time; 30k is simply lethal. The 1200-1500 PPM of CO2 supplementation in commercial grow facilities is fine, akin to sitting in a crowded theater watching a performance.