DIY + 1st Indoor, Many Questions

[slohemian]

At first i was sure i'd go the hydro route but since i may or may not be available at times, ive taken up soil.

Im creating a 24"x45"x58" grow tent. Im going to make a wooden frame and wrap it with 5mil panda plastic. (which i found at 1.19 per foot x 10 feet)

Im still unsure of a few things. While i have scoured forums and talked with many friends.. the light, the strain, the soil, and the buckets still have me in limbo.

Here come the list of questions, easy to run down the list to answer:

- I'm looking for a very high yielder, big bhudda cheese is on my mind, but she gets pretty tall. What do you think?

- I am curious as to how many plants i can grow per 5 gallon bucket?

- With the space i have, and the desire to grow as many plants simultaneously, what light would suit me the best?

- I have found recipes for some "killer" soil ( 60% sterilized potting soil + 15% perlite + 10% building sand/masonry sand + 10% worm castings + 5% organic premix). What do you think about that mix? Also, since this mix wont retain its nutrient's throughout flowering, they say once you are a week or so into flowering, mix fish emulsion into your watering?

- I dont know much about nutrients for soil since hydro was my original plan. But i do know that i want higher nitrogen in veg, and higher phosphorus in flower, right?

So i guess to cut it short, its up in the air. The tent is the only thing in concrete.. and it cant get any bigger due to a restrictive closest. This is my only option.. I have no room for a large stealth cabinet! (money either)

To reiterate, my main questions are: strain? light? bucket size / how many planets per bucket? soil?

Thanks in advance fellas

 

[FunkBomb]

Your grow tent sounds like a sweet idea. I would have to suggest a 400w AIRCOOLED light or if you're really ambitious a 600w. As for your soil that's a nice mix but can be simpler. How about potting soil, dolomite lime, perilite, and worm castings? I use cheap Sta-Green Nursery/Tree & Shrub mix and add perilite and get monster fist sized buds.

If you want to maximize your setup go with a sea of green. Get a good lady and keep her in veg. Take clones and flower them out in 2-3 gallon containers. You will be happy with the results under a 400/600w light.

Nutrients and fertilizers are up to you. Organic or not organic? Organics is simple and effective, check out some of the threads over in the oraganics forum. There are lots of easy soil mixes and nutrient information there. I use Pure Blend Pro as and the full supplement line and get awesome results.

Best of luck to you. Keep it simple stupid.

-Funk

 

[mudvaynefan]

You need to pick the strain according to your needs.

If this is for head,and you have limited space, you need to find a strain that is good for sog.

Not one that branches out a ton.

I mean, do you need bag appeal, or a big return on your investment? So many variables to affect just the dam strain to grow. You dont want to look at the over all size of a plant, but its growth pattern.

Being tall doesnt really mean you want it. Some strain are low yielders, but dam, the weed they give you is killer. More things to think about. I would not put more than one plant in a bucket if your going to veg them at all.

If you want to flower 2 clones per 5 gallon bucket, you should be fine, a double sog. You still need a strain that is good for sog so both clones per bucket get good light. I would start with one per container. Are you looking to grow trees?

Thats what those 5 gal buckets are good for, if not, Id look into smaller containers, but more of them.I dont know about that soil mix.

Just buy some soil, and some ff grow big, or your choice of a simple nute plan. I use cal mag, because I use ro water. Thats the only reason for it. I use ff grow big, because its good, and its simple.

I use liquid karma to help transplants, foliar feed, and the many other nutes it provides.

I think its great to replace superthrive, though there is nothing wrong with it, I still use 2ml per gallon for once in veg, once in flower.

I use alaska fish fert cause its organic, great for flower, and easy to use.As far as wanting higher n than p and k, that is very easy to find that info, and all you answers, they are are stickys at the top of this forum.

IF you do go sog, you can use taller thinner pots, allowing more in the room, because your flipping rooted clones with maybe 1 or 2 days veg.

You really should read thru the stickys, and look thru the other grow forums, like test grows, breeders lab.

They are always throwing out what the soil mix is, just keep it simple. The less you add, the less you have to worry about flushing, phing, and all the other crap from using too many additives.I read grow sites till my ass got tired of being under me.

I suggest you do the same, its not the same as having someone tell you what you need to know.

 

[slohemian]

400w hps ya think? what if i got a 250 mh/hps interchangable? Im really looking to cut energy costs but i guess if im yielding some fat nugs that would take care of itself now wouldnt it.

the only problem about keeping a mother is that i dont have a place to do it, unlesss i sectioned off a part of my tent. i would really lose grow space though.

Here is my perception of what you're trying to explain, please tell me if im wrong:

keep a mother plant in veg (will she get too tall/bushy if i do that?) or is this where having a strain w/ a max height comes into play?

take cuttings from the mother (im guessing they will have to be quite large if i do not veg them?) and put them on 12/12 right away?

And you also feel a 3 gallon pot is better than a 5 in my situation?


I do say, if i did have a mother, and the only thing i would be doing is taking cuttings and flowering them..... that would be extremely efficient. But is that what you're trying to say?

Im gonna see if i can begin my frame this week.. we'll see how far i get.

EDIT: sog = scrogg? both could mean screenof green, i just want to clarify.

 

[mudvaynefan]

You dont need to have a mother plant. You can clone a clone as many times as you want.

Take all the small shoots off the bottom of the flowering clone as clones, root them, by the time they are ready to flower, say 2 days after they have been in the pots they will flower in, it will be ready to flip the 2nd batch of clones.

Then you can stay perpetual, really you just need a small clone/slight veg chamber.

And by small, I mean this



Its one light, one fan. 1 23 ge bright daylight cfl. So the electricity is not bad, I just run my hps for 12 hours, and this box is not a big deal, it can be moved easy, its only about 5 pounds, quite, fits anywhere outside or in the grow room.

You can do a low small trunk, like a foot locker, and use flouro tubes. You really dont need the bring the sun indoors for veg/clone, just for flower.

The clone in the very right hand top corner is a bud from a sensi star in flower, I took it at 2 or 3 weeks, I forgot really. It was a bud though, you can see, so you have no problem taking cuts from a flowering plant, avoding mother plants.





I use a normal desk lamp(on my desk in fact) to root clones, the weaker the light the better, all my clones were rooted on my desk next to my pc, on the modem and under the desk lamp, 1 23 cheapo cfl.

Once I know they have any roots at all, I plant em in dirt, and veg them in here.

This box will let you keep them in here for about 2 weeks, with lst. You can flower them a few days after planting, to keep it civil for sog.

SCROG= screen of green.

SOG= Sea of green.

You flower rooted clones with little or no veg time, allowing for alot of plants in a small area, dependent on strain, you get 15 -30 gram sticks of bud per plant/container.

I am using the pepsi big slam bottles, they are tall, thin, perfect for sog.


You just add another row of clones to the flowering room.
You have them about 2 weeks apart, you pull bud every 2 weeks or so. There is no problem with not having a mother plant and cloning a clone for ever.

You just have to get your cloning tech down.

How ever it needs to work in your situation, you need to have it down. Then, you put in new clones the same day you take out the finished ones.

Still do alot of reading, read the stickys, and read thru the breeders lab, and test grows. Alot of soil info there, grow info here, and I would look thru grow room design as well, for example of tight packed sogs.

Dont take anyones word for it, read it for your self, and own the information.

 

[slohemian]

You're rockin my world man, i appreciate the extensive help. I'll definitely be showering myself in different sources.

So if all of this is the case.. instead of growing 2-3 plants in 3-5gallon buckets yielding whatever they yield... your method would allow me to yeild 15-30 grams a plant, but at the same time, have many many more plants to harvest from? On top of that, a perpetual cycle?

So are you keeping these little clones in their little cups when you throw them in their flower chamber? It baffles me that a tiny little clipping like that can be put into flower as soon as it roots, true story?

So with my dimensions... 24" deep, 45" wide, and 58" tall, how many of your sized clones would fit in my flower chamber? Im loving this concept... you have no idea... I just have a hard time believing it because ive heard the "its too good to be true" mantra once or twice.

Also, if im going to be flowering an abundant number of smaller plants.. would i reconsider my light source?

 

[mudvaynefan]

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/3008882_Gram_bud_grown_in_a_16_oz_bottle.jpg



Heres a good example. Imagine, if you will, your floor space packed tight, bottle to bottle, all under your 400 or 600 watt hps.

Only flower.

The clones can be flowered as soon as they start feeding.

I can tell a clone is making roots wihout seeing them poke out the side of the pellet, and when I see the signs, I would give it 2 days of veg, under a cfl, to allow it to adjust to new home, then flower it. If you want a good rule of thumb, wait till you see the roots poking out.

They will be feeding by then. Plant in flower pot, and flower. The hard part (if there is one) is getting the right strain.

Some, like the link above, if you get to know them well enough, can be made to do the same "trick" over and over again, with similar results.

Meaning, he knows what to feed, how deep a planter he needs, and how much light to use to get it to make that stick of bud, and not just branch out like crazy. See, clones want to grow like mad.

They are hungry, and have explosive growth once rooted. Its like they are playing catch up.

If you flower a newly rooted clone, that growth will translate into it budding its self up.

Its alot of little things to get right. You want to know the nute tolerance, so you give it what it needs, and it does the rest. Its really a easy way to grow, its just you have to water them all, and have your cloning down pat.

No biggie, always take at least 3 or more clones than you have room for. Youll get it down, ive got around 98 percent root with clones, and I just use my modem and desk lamp, and a spray bottle of plain water.

My little box in the pic is really for a few days veg of the clones, then off to flower. Id say, 3 days.

You will have to always have a fresh batch of clones ready to start flowering, even before you pull the first ones that are done.

You want to have about 2 rows flowering , then the row behind them, 2 weeks behind them in time, and so on.

Time it to where youve got clones vegging no more than 4 or 5 days before they go in flower.

Youll be taking clones around the same time every time, till its a routine.


Its not hard to overgrow your space with sog.

I typed sog in the search,, and that thread came up top of page.

He is the man, not only rocking the sog, but using cfl to flower, and getting great yields. And batteries to boot.

Keep at it, but take your time and dont hurry.

Really with the info and help from this board, as long as you dont rush, youll have a killer grow. Too bad you cant tell your friends and family about how fucking great of a hobby you have, and how great youve become at it.

Fucking lame huh. Spend years learning to do a good thing well, only to have to hide your joy and results.

 

[slohemian]

So true my friend... and this guy in the pic seems to have it down to a science. Im gonna do a search to see if i can find the grow that the pic came from, then dig a little bit w/ the strain.

Although i feel no candidate is equivalent to ron paul, obama wants to decriminalize marijuana. Not sure what that means for stealth growers? Anyway, i wonder if it will be a different world if the ganja was decriminalized, as far as that fear in the back of my head that my landlord will snoop in my closet goes.


So back to the grow. If ive got this straight, after you make your cut for your clone, you have it ina rockwool or potting soil medium for only 2 days and it takes up the roots? Or after it takes up the roots, you give it a few days in veg? I understand the concept, im not concrete on how many days are between the initial cutting, and placing the cut in the flower chamber. It seems 2-3 days is pretty skimpy for that tiny cut to get some roots, but what do i know... really

 

[mudvaynefan]

Na, the lazy way I do it now, its about 9 days or so. But yea, If you throw a tiny ass clone, with roots under a 400 watt hps, it will grow a stick of bud. Its a very popular method for a good reason.


I flower clones for sog at 3 days veg, that is, 3 days after being put into the final pot from the white cups.

Thats it.

The only thing most growers dont like about sog, that they do like about scrog, is the plant count.

You are packing as many plants as you can, plus clones, and the ones on the 3 day veg cycle, thats like, 30 or so plants. Some states its a fellony per plant.


Some are not.Who Knows. Scrog allows for a tad longer veg. Your filling a screen. Less plants.

The trick with scrog is to get a good scrog strain, not a particlarly leafy, streacthy strain, but a good indica/ sativa mix, and use the explosive growth of rooted clones to fill the screen.

They really do triple thier mass from rooted to flower, youd be suprised what a tiny clone will flower into, and really happy if you are under higher wattage hid. I only play in the 275 watt sandbox.

With 400 , you could kick out some hefty buds. Do your homework first. Really.

A really good idea is to lurk moar in the sick plants section.


I look there every day, learning from others mistakes. Makes it so much easier to learn from thiers than mine.

I guess, if you built a bubble cloner, just a small one, say about 12 clones, and had a small veg/clone box, you could average roots showing in about 7 days.

Once they show, you can plant in soil.

If you pump out 12 good clones in 7 or so days every time you clone, thats 12 sog plants you can flower, as long as all goes well.

It all could fit in a box the size Ive got in the pic, but just about 6 inches taller.

I clone with jiffy pellets. Rock wool is for hydro, wich I have yet to get into. I have plans though.

Oh yes.

 

[mudvaynefan]

I just realized, I didnt lay out the process step by step in order.

I take the cut, place in jiffy pelet, and It goes back and forth between my desklamp and the floor of the grow space, where the light barely keeps in light.

Desk when lights out in garden, garden when desk lamp is off(my shit starts when most are sleeping.)

They stay in a plastic jiffy pelet little humidor tent thing till I see the signs of them working and making roots.

I plant them in the little white cups in the pic, veg in that box, flower from there. Thats it.

I do have a mother plant but you dont need one.

 

[slohemian]

OK my man i believe ive got it down... one last thing, with your clones, what type of light do you keep them in timewise. 18/6? or a full 24? Also, you say you move your clones when certain lights are off, im not sure i get what your saying. Regardless, ima give you some rep+ peace.

 

[mudvaynefan]

My clones in the plastic dome stay in ambient light 24hours. It doesnt need to be direct, direct sometimes makes things go slower. When my grow starts up, my houses is asleep.

So my desk lamp goes off, they go on the floor in the room, just getting touched by the edge of the glow of my lights. Then, after my flower box goes off, I put them under my mother plant, wich has been on 16/8. When that goes off in the morning, Im up and they sit on my desk all day.

This allows me to shut my mini veg chamber off, to allow root growth on the rooted clones in there. I keep my mother plant in a freakin rubber maid tub. I only need 2 23 watt daylight cfl to keep her in veg, and the clones go under her till her lights are off.

I choose to keep a mum, but I dont really need to. Once you know they have roots, 18/6 is great, I pick 16/8, for my own reasons.

I find their is not that much difference in 18/6 and 16/8. Youll find your prefered time, by seeing what kind of growth you get from your plant.

Some strains start pre flower under 15 hours, some will stay in veg at 15.

 

[mudvaynefan]

Ill get a shot of my mum, where I keep her, my clone dome thing, and see if I can paint a clear pic of the process.

I am thinking that I will just scrog my mum, because I let her get out of hand. I may just clone clones after that, and not have to mess with putting a plant to sleep 4 hours after the flowering ones are asleep.

I have 46 watts of power that run for 4 hours after my flower lights go out, its above the mum in the rubbermaid tub. It just keeps her in veg. I just need that dam pot the sensi star is flowering in now, so I can put her in it and scrog the bitch.I have 2 lights in one flower cab, 100 hps, 150 hps side by side.

I like the idea of vegging one plant for a month for scrog under the 150 watt, and my sog on the 100 side.

You really dont need very much light to veg a scrog plant, 2 23 wtt cfl do it great for me. Thats with lst. I would not try it without lst.