Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

[dank.frank]

After looking at plant behavior, they ARE coming up a bit short on nutrition. They are begging for P/K. It's in the soil, but they aren't getting as much as they need. It has to be a microbial/fungal/bacteria short coming on my end. Nitrogen is mobile. I'd see translocation if they were lacking it and I'm not, so they are not.

I took 1 cup of Fertoz 0-7-0 + 31% Calcium and 26% silica and 2 tbsp of Diamond K-Mag 0-0-22 + 22% Sulfur and 11% magnesium Micronized/Soluble. I added 1 cup of pure lemon juice and let the mixture sit 24 hours. I agitated it a few times by swirling the container. It's fully dissolved and makes a typical fertilizer mucky brown color. I'll add 1/4c of this to 3 gallons of water for 3 feedings.

I've already water this way once, two days ago, on day 45. The pink/purple veining I was seeing in the crown buds of the 9wk Cobalt Haze have subsided a bit already.

Notice the things I'm tossing at them in the mixture of those two simple products.

Ca/Mg
P
K
Silica
Sulfur

It's not an accident combining those two products. Together, they make an impressive little nutrient solution to push our favorite plant just a touch harder.

Buy a couple 50# bags of these products, you could make several thousand bottles of organic hydro nutrients. Toss in a bit of humic/fulvic via Humic DG and a stabilizer like tween 20 and a yucca base...viola.

Now I just need to draft up my fancy label with some bimbo and outdated pop culture references. I'll address the L.E.D. comments soon. I appreciate all of you that have openly shared your thoughts as I had asked.

I can not wait for the Sis/PK to finish. this plant looks like the original OG cutting - but smells like Chemdog and paint thinner. She might be a legitimate keeper.



dank.Frank

 

[GOT_BUD?]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dank.frank again.


Fucking brilliant my man. Less than 80 bucks and I'd be able to feed my grow for a decade.

Do you think this could be an alternative to the Diamond K brand?

 

[dank.frank]

They used to carry the product I'm discussing. I'm not 100% sure. The Diamond K was a micronized product that could be used with drip irrigation and not clog. With that tiny particle size comes hastened availability for uptake.

However, my bag, is one large solid lump from having been stored in humidity. After a soak, it still breaks apart and disperses just fine. But, I have no clue how something with a larger particle size like that would perform under a similar type usage. Although, that granular size is what I use in soil mixes.



dank.Frank

 

[Americangrower]

.

I took 1 cup of Fertoz 0-7-0 + 31% Calcium and 26% silica and 2 tbsp of Diamond K-Mag 0-0-22 + 22% Sulfur and 11% magnesium Micronized/Soluble. I added 1 cup of pure lemon juice and let the mixture sit 24 hours. I agitated it a few times by swirling the container. It's fully dissolved and makes a typical fertilizer mucky brown color. I'll add 1/4c of this to 3 gallons of water for 3 feedings.


Notice the things I'm tossing at them in the mixture of those two simple products.




dank.Frank

Frank you and I have a very different idea of simple No wonder your grows come out so good..

 

[chuckyoufarley]

Most of the time I have no idea of what DF is talking about but his grows says he knows WTF he is doing ,so I try to follow along and most time just shake my head and read it a few more times .I'm kinda simple when it comes to the science of nutrients.

 

[dank.frank]

You guys are full of it but thanks...lol.

To clarify - two products:

Fertoz Calcium Phosphate
Diamond K K-Mag Micronized

https://www.fertoz.com/organic-farming-fertilizer-product/organic-rock-phosphate-fertigation/

Product is mechanically ground to a micronized fine mesh powder. Suitable for use in fertigation, drip tube irrigation or as a foliar. Create a suspension by adding citric acid and rock phosphate to water and agitate until dissolved.

So, it's not my idea. Lemon juice is close enough to a citric acid/water base mixture. It seems to have worked just fine because the mixture is certainly suspended in solution, exactly like you expect a bottled nutrient to be.

So really, it IS easy. Just like other people can rattle off 20 different bottled nutrient lines, it's simply the result of having stuck with a single system for so long. As organics have become increasingly popular in the general agriculture, the products available to meet that demand have also improved and face shifts in availability.

Examples - Greensand now comes from a mine in Russia because the mine in New Jersey dug up some old artifacts and had to close down. Kelp from Norway is not growing back as quickly due to rising ocean temperatures and lower oxygen levels in the water - something all hydro growers should understand - dissolved oxygen levels at varying temperatures - anyway, that reduced growth rate created an industry shortage and now, a company in Maine harvests kelp to sell as a soil and animal feed supplement.

It's interesting to watch the industry fluctuations. Considering I used to sell a fertilizer mix (NSBP: FLF), it only stands to reason I probably pay more attention to these things than others would.

It's in part why I do try to share and it's why I can't stand a methodology or mentality that mandates indoctrination, like with some other soil mixes, etc. I'm just sharing what I'm personally doing in my room - and 99.9% of the time, I have a fairly solid foundation for WHY - even if I'm not always correct.

I mean, I'm water only and I preach it - but years of growing tell me when my plants could look slightly better at a given age. Being so dogmatic about water only and not giving them a tea is self-defeating, yet some growers do that simply to hold to self-imposed ideologies.

I've learned a LOT even in this thread from others just by having the balls to admit I don't know everything and by not being afraid to ask questions. Both important character traits to develop if you ever want to be anything more than just an average grower.



dank.Frank

 

[Americangrower]

Oh I got the Fertoz and Diamond K part.. it's the 21%,11% of 2 tbs and 31%, 26% of 1 cup that threw me.. what is 22% of 2 tbs?

 

[dank.frank]

Ugh. Just lost a great big long reply.

Those are the additional mineral contents in those products. It's why I chose them over something like a guano/kelp tea. Sorry for the confusion!

1 cup fertoz + 2 tbsp Kmag + 1-2cups of lemon juice to dissolve. Let sit for 24 hours, stirring occasionally. Take 1/4c per 3 gallons of water. Going to use it every other watering for this week, so 3x.



dank.Frank

 

[Dog Star]

After looking at plant behavior, they ARE coming up a bit short on nutrition. They are begging for P/K. It's in the soil, but they aren't getting as much as they need. It has to be a microbial/fungal/bacteria short coming on my end. Nitrogen is mobile. I'd see translocation if they were lacking it and I'm not, so they are not.

I took 1 cup of Fertoz 0-7-0 + 31% Calcium and 26% silica and 2 tbsp of Diamond K-Mag 0-0-22 + 22% Sulfur and 11% magnesium Micronized/Soluble. I added 1 cup of pure lemon juice and let the mixture sit 24 hours. I agitated it a few times by swirling the container. It's fully dissolved and makes a typical fertilizer mucky brown color. I'll add 1/4c of this to 3 gallons of water for 3 feedings.

I've already water this way once, two days ago, on day 45. The pink/purple veining I was seeing in the crown buds of the 9wk Cobalt Haze have subsided a bit already.

Notice the things I'm tossing at them in the mixture of those two simple products.

Ca/Mg
P
K
Silica
Sulfur

It's not an accident combining those two products. Together, they make an impressive little nutrient solution to push our favorite plant just a touch harder.

Buy a couple 50# bags of these products, you could make several thousand bottles of organic hydro nutrients. Toss in a bit of humic/fulvic via Humic DG and a stabilizer like tween 20 and a yucca base...viola.

Now I just need to draft up my fancy label with some bimbo and outdated pop culture references. I'll address the L.E.D. comments soon. I appreciate all of you that have openly shared your thoughts as I had asked.

I can not wait for the Sis/PK to finish. this plant looks like the original OG cutting - but smells like Chemdog and paint thinner. She might be a legitimate keeper.



dank.Frank

Since you are organic grower wanted to ask do you use
enzymes for old root decomposing and keeping a medium
more healthy and less pathogens??

Am buyed recently Atazyme and a bottle says its 100% organic
and from natural sources... but like you said nutes can be done
by yourself so i asking what they use as enzymes to help
derail old died roots??


Maybe homemade enzymes haves even better action..

 

[nickman]

Sorry if this is off topic frank but I wanted to ask u abou5 something I was reading the other day.
I was reading some descriptions from the Dominion Seed Co seeds and a few of them were saying not to feed Humic acid because it will cause hermies.... this was for one of the chem lines I think?
I always add Humic acid to my soil?

Just curious how that could be???




On another note: let’s see that pretty pk bitch...!!!... ...

 

[Americangrower]

Ugh. Just lost a great big long reply.

Those are the additional mineral contents in those products. It's why I chose them over something like a guano/kelp tea. Sorry for the confusion!

1 cup fertoz + 2 tbsp Kmag + 1-2cups of lemon juice to water. Let sit for 24 hours, stirring occasionally. Take 1/4c per 3 gallons of water. Going to use it every other watering for this week, so 3x.



dank.Frank

now you are speaking my language lol.. That is simple

 

[Chili_berkster]

A friend came back from jamaica with some seeds to try. Might find something interesting. Also about the water only for the flowering plants. I have been doing some runs with no tea, just water. I am impressed. It's possible I have been feeding these plants too much. I have been seeing some swollen flowers and loving it. I always try and learn everything I can from DF. Wealth of knowledge and passion for the game.

 

[dank.frank]

Since you are organic grower wanted to ask do you use
enzymes for old root decomposing and keeping a medium
more healthy and less pathogens??

Am buyed recently Atazyme and a bottle says its 100% organic
and from natural sources... but like you said nutes can be done
by yourself so i asking what they use as enzymes to help
derail old died roots??


Maybe homemade enzymes haves even better action..

Let me say, first of all, this concept is silly. Get away from thinking like that.

Left over roots = organic matter = part of the soil food web = get decomposed by moisture and living organisms - everything from worms, to land crustaceans, to soil mites, to trichoderma, to various leaf molds.

All these are part of a natural system that converts raw organic materials into dirt. Without this hierarchy in play, your soil is basically an inert media making use of available ions and never really converting much of anything. That's why some organic systems are constantly NEEDING teas or foliars to fulfill a cycle.

If you look back, I state I was giving a few feeds - but the reason I stated for doing so is more important than the fert recipe.

They are begging for P/K. It's in the soil, but they aren't getting as much as they need. It has to be a microbial/fungal/bacteria short coming on my end.

This is precisely why I want to try Mammoth P. The science - well, what I've managed to learn about soil and my understanding of how things work - the science behind Mammoth P makes PERFECT sense and it IS a break through, in terms of not only accessing previously lost soil bound phosphorous, but in how that relates to reducing application rates in the first place.

Keep in mind - cannabis is a dynamic accumulator, capable of even nuclear bio-remediation. We REALLY want to give it as little as possible in the process of trying to get our desired outcome.

Side tangent sorry, but - it ties in because the key to ALL THINGS - so both leaving old roots in the soil and getting more from applied fertilizers - in an organic system goes back to the bacteria, fungi, and other creatures in the compost cycle converting raw materials into usable ionic forms. Soil is, or should be, a living, functioning ecosystem.

I have some grow reflections to make regarding soil here soon - and it may play a part in why my plants have seemed a bit necrotic this whole round. Another post though.



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

@Nickman - I think of humics as one of those soil building substances. I use a product called Humic DG. Comes in a 40# bag - so it's MUCH more affordable. I mix it in with my base soil mix. Why? Because I want the results of a 2,000 year old soil from something I just mixed 2 weeks ago.

To piggy back on my statement above about reducing inputs - perhaps Duke saw the results he did because humics had a positive impact on nutrient availability and therefore found himself over-feeding to the point of causing issues???

I really don't know why such a statement would be uttered or really the full scenario upon which that opinion was formulated. I'll keep using it as a part of my soil mixes though.

@Chili B - you never know with Jamaican what you get now. Lot of imported dutch seed. I do hope it's something special all the same - never know unless you put them in dirt though! I consider you one of my mentors without question, so for you to say such a thing is humbling. Bless up, brother. I try to walk in the light.



dank.Frank

 

[unclefishstick]

i tried the mammoth p and i was fairly impressed with the results,and then i saw how much it cost...that said i would use it again if my local shop didn't have months old product on the shelf

 

[dank.frank]

Yeah, it is pricey. In part why I'm trying to establish what my baseline range for yields are in this new rig before run out and buy a bottle of it!!! But it is university tested and proven and their claims are taken directly from the study University of Colorado did - maybe at Boulder - can't recall exactly, but it has a solid foundation. Many products I'm willing to try, I can UNDERSTAND why they serve a purpose.

There are shills in every industry. Discernment is not something I apply to just cannabis related things. Glad to have you dropping in more frequently, Unc.



dank.Frank

 

[unclefishstick]

as i recall their claims were fairly reasonable and the results i saw were in line with that...


yes,we even have shills here on icmag! i'm really enjoying the hlg vs hgl side by side,that one cracks me up!

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

The "cheap" version of mammoth p as I call it(totally different product, lol) , works just as well imo. "Xtreme Gardening Myko's" . Granualar product, I get the 2lb or 4lb bags. From what I've seen makes the roots just as prolific as using mammoth P. Don't know the science behind it or anything. I just know it works, and is a fraction of the cost of mammoth.

 

[dank.frank]

Mammoth P is VERY specific in what it does. Phosphorous gets trapped in the soil in various chemical bonds and can't be accessed by the plant. The bacteria in Mammoth P break those bonds and release that previously inaccessible P back to the soil food web.

So, it's primary purpose is different than other myco products, because it's not a myco product. It's not intended for root colonization, etc. so you wouldn't see such results from just using Mammoth P alone. Aside from roots using P (the element) to grow, but...

I'd suggest using it in conjunction with your current myco treatments though. To study the topic more just use google scholar and search phosphate solubilizing bacteria. Think of it as bacterial chelation.



dank.Frank

 

[Prodigygrower]

I’m running mammoth P rite now. They were flipped on the 22nd . I wish I would of established a base. Ill do that when I make my selections and run from clone.I got the sample for free. 60 mils makes 100 gallons. I might be able to do a whole run with this small bottle. We’ll see how she goes.