Discussion on container size and nute uptake

[tobedetermined]

I don’t up pot either. I usually put the new germ into a saturated rapid rooter plug and I put that directly into the 5 or 3 gallon fabric pot with 75% coco/25% perlite that has been saturated. For the next 7 days or so, I dribble water around that plug so the roots grow out of the plug. After that, I water to run off. When people fight with coco, they either overwater it at the start or they underwater it once they get going. Coco is hydro. It must stay wet.

The only grow that I deviated and put them in solos as an interim stage, was the only time that I almost drown them. When I realized that they were stalled and overwatered, I stuck them in the larger pot and ignored them for 3 days before starting the regimen.

 

[blondie]

Keep this good info coming... all is appreciated. Sorry to hear switcher. I’ve got a similar neurological issue, though mild. Let’s hope it doesn’t progress. It pretty much sucks being fairly young having shit wrong with you. I’m going to head out on Friday and pick up some soil of some sort somewhere local. It’s going to be hot which really sucks. I didn’t think ahead. My mind didn’t quite work the way I needed. Now I have two little tiny Malawi’s trying to break the surface. Not a bad thing but I wish I had my standard mix and soil ready to,go.

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

Lots of good soils available. ProMix, Espoma's Organic, Roots Organics, Sungro's Black and Gold are all good potting soils. I push things by adding Kelp Meal, Greensand, and extra Worm Castings at planting time. Misting young starts with plain water (fortified with CalMag 1ml per quart on alternate days sprayed once) can help combat the effects of Hot Soil.

 

[blondie]

Thanks fletch. Btw that name cracks me up. Espoma is usually available locally, I still have my espoma nutes, but I’ll be lacking any lobster type compost. I also still have a bag of happy frog. Was hoping to mix it or not use it. Lots of sticks and such in it. Not my fav. Maybe I can find the other fox farms one ocean forest or whatever it’s called.

Awesome info from everyone here.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

When I start in small pots plants grow faster to begin with. But I have found that plants grown side by side the plants that got off to a slow start in the bigger pots end up catching up and make stronger, higher yielding plants overall. So if I am looking for big plants I put them directly into big pots and skip the up potting. If I'm going for a quick turnover I keep them in smaller pots.

 

[44:86N]

I do prefer pots that "breath" for cannabis (and orchids!) over plastic, at least for the final pot.

For years now I have been using a wood bushel basket treated with copper and I love them! They are from Texas Baskets. Indoors, I have used the 1/2 bushel and full bushel; outdoors it's the 5 bushel. Very cost effective.

I have been using Berger's mixes for a decade now, and would be at a real loss if I could no longer source this line of peat mixes. Simply the best. They grow their own peat (Quebec based), and only use long fibers in their own mixes. I know a caregiver, they bought a pallet last year through me, and are buying 2 pallets this year. They like to do a 50/50 mix of BM6 and BM8. I used straight BM6 outdoors last year, and was glad, as it rained a lot. BM6 is suitable for succulents, it drains that fast.

 

[hamstring]

Great thread I have learned a lot. The only thing I can add from experience would be for swamp growing.

A 5 gal fabric pot is shorter and the fabric material is absorbent. Where as a 5 gal plastic pail is taller and non-absorbent. The 5gal plastic pails work better because they keep a nice dry zone. Fabric pots get wet, no dry zone and cause root rot.

Edit: I want to clear something up because after reading my post it could be unclear. I am talking about 5 gal pails( green painted camo) with holes drilled all over the bottom and 1" up the pails. The pails or fabric pots are placed in aprox 1-2" of water in the spring that turns into moist earth in the heat of the summer. This is a self watering technique.

I believe (no science) that height of the 5 gal pail keeps it from water logging the soil/medium allowing them to breath. Therefore negating the the fact the fabric pots breath better. I guess that was my point if there is one.

 

[Switcher56]

Great thread I have learned a lot. The only thing I can add from experience would be for swamp growing.

A 5 gal fabric pot is shorter and the fabric material is absorbent. Where as a 5 gal plastic pail is taller and non-absorbent. The 5gal plastic pails work better because they keep a nice dry zone. Fabric pots get wet, no dry zone and cause root rot.

... that is why they can only be used in a sheltered environment outdoors (greenhouse). We can't grow outdoors here, so it was a "no brainer" for me to go to cloth pots, fully knowing the benefits of "screen pots". Even the smart pots which are made out of plastic they don't truly breathe, are black, just like nursery pots (black absorbs heat). It may be beneficial in some areas, but in general, have too many what I call faults to be beneficial. The best pots bar none for growing anything, are terra-cota. Expensive and fragile! They breathe and act as a sort of climate control container, maintaining the roots in a nice comfy state. Think of how a wine skin works, the simple refrigeration process...

I have admitted to the world I suffer dementia, and I may not always express myself clearly. I have adapted cannabis growing from my bonsai days.

I have a simple question for you fine folks. Which pot will contain more water (we are talking a pot of the same capacity here (for the skeptics))?

• a deep pot; or
• a shallow pot.

I have a simple test that anyone can do at home. I will reveal later if anyone is interested. As I stated I have forgot more than I know, or I can't express eloquently/logically what is in this fragmented computer I have on my shoulders.

From my bonsai days... We believe that are plants/trees need to be on an IV. Not so! Just like when you are thirsty, you have a glass of water. Depending on how thirsty you are, you may have a 2nd glass and even a 3rd but, once satiated, you stop, just like your plants/trees. That is why we see hospital staff constantly checking and regulating IV drips. This is a complex topic (watering, proper watering) I am only given you the short strokes here.

In an ideal situation we water in the early morning, either by an automated system or by hand, to prepare for the plants transpiration that will take place during the day, to remain cool and fed. Do you eat and drink while your sleeping? No! Everybody gets “pissed” having to get up in the middle of the night to go pee. It is simply annoying... think of what your girls think of it. Well they do tell us, they voice their displeasure with their “plumage” read leaves.

Water until 10% run off. Bullshit! Full stop! It applies to coco only, yet I see it day in a day out. If I do that my pots are wet for 7 days. When I flush, I simply use water. I would like to flush proper, to, 10-15% run off. I simply can't. The jury is still out on the subject to flush or not to flush. It doesn't need to be discussed here. Because of the medium we used in Bonsai, we would water until run off. That is because the medium in Bonsai only a fraction of its mix was organic. It is a different application I know, but the basis of keeping a live oak in a tiny pot (bonsai definition = a tree in a pot) for 100s of years, and some of these tress are $300K +.

Do I need to know fancy chemical relations ect... No! That is for the academics IMHO. I read what I read, and then, dismiss it. I may google a section for a better understanding, nothing more. To me it just muddys the subject.

Here is something I wrote circa 2010 http://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.co...il%20mechani cs and this one...

http://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.co...l%20Experime nt

We used to say you can grow Bonsai in chards of glass, providing you met “their” needs.

I am here to help, not argue with folks. It is a cannabis forum, most of the time folks are ripped, and some aren't ripped on stridently cannabis.

From day one I have stated... your environment is what works for you in your environment, nothing more, nothing less. Although we strive to excel, we always learn something new and, I totally embrace that. Do I take all the advice provided here verbatim? Absolutely not! I have the ability to decipher chaff from wheat and will seek corroboration as required.

I change 1 maybe 2 things at most between grows. Why? How can you know what caused the result if you can't draw a conclusion. eg.. My NL and LA conf run, was my 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] best run (unknown "genetics" e.g not what would be classified as "premium" genetics). Indicas don't fair well being mainlined. Well last run my King Louis, was proof in the pudding only yielding 1/2 of what she is capable of although she was from blue blood. I took note of that and will not manifold her again. That being said, I will continue using the technique... Why? It works for me, supports my "medical" needs, in “MY” environment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I lost all my pills in the fire, although I was able to retrieve 75% of my stash, the fire has set me back 2 yrs.

In closing, once upon a time, during discourse, each would present their argument. In this “woke” world, it is now called argumentative. Folks I am fully woke and refuse to assimilate myself in today's society. I am not an idiot, just a well informed individual functioning amidst a dementianal brain.

We need to adapt to our unique environments, especially indoors where I tell folks, YOU have now become mother nature. What I do works for me. Can it be improved absolutely! But I am the one who decides what I do. Your mileage will vary

PS: The answer between a shallow and deep pot can be found in the articles. I am not being an "ass" I only just remembered it is more likely there

 

[Creeperpark]

Keep this good info coming... all is appreciated. Sorry to hear switcher. I’ve got a similar neurological issue, though mild. Let’s hope it doesn’t progress. It pretty much sucks being fairly young having shit wrong with you. I’m going to head out on Friday and pick up some soil of some sort somewhere local. It’s going to be hot which really sucks. I didn’t think ahead. My mind didn’t quite work the way I needed. Now I have two little tiny Malawi’s trying to break the surface. Not a bad thing but I wish I had my standard mix and soil ready to,go.

I use organic soil for germinating seeds and the ppm is in the high 3000s. Today I'm using Fox Farms Ocean Forest to see if the quality is on the mark. The trick with using organic soil is pure-water and water management. When one waters with pure water the water slowly releases nutrients. If one over-waters it releases too many nutrients and causes a hot environment in the root zone. By weighing the small dixie cups I can prevent overwatering and excess nutrients exposure. Anytime I hear someone say Fox Farms Ocean Forest it is too hot to grow in, that tells me they were using the wrong water or watered too much.

 

[Lester Beans]

You can plant directly in final pot without worries. Just don't overwater it.

Outside when I plant my garden I don't up-pot three times. Seed in soil and done. So a seed will grow fine in a large pot. Also people say low light is needed for seedlings. This is also a myth as seedlings grow under the sun just fine. I have started 1000's of seeds directly in large pots under 1000 watt lamps.

If I want fast veg growth I start in small round cell flats. Then to quart container. Then 2 gal and on to final large pot. The plants grow much faster with the transplanting. If I'm not worried about a quick veg cycle, I just plant into final containers.

Coast of Maine is great stuff!

My Base mix:

1 Part Coast of Maine Lobster Compost
1 Part Peat
.5 part Worm Castings
.5 part perlite or rice hulls.

That is amended with build a soil amendments or just used as is with Botanicare Pure Blend Pro

The Coast of Maine is hard to find now. I tried Fox Farms Strawberry Fields and found it to be hotter than the CoM. Almost too much. It is an excellent option but needs to be dialed back to a half part for younger plants or nutrient sensitive cultivars, 3/4 for normal feeding plants.

In my experience the Fox Farm lines go like this in order from mild to hotter soil.

Happy Frog
Ocean Forest
Strawberry Fields

Pro Mix is great and that's essentially what I'm doing by mixing the peat, compost, and drainage myself is making promix. Just better promix. If you just plan on using bottles nutrient, go promix. If you want to add amendments and supplement bottles build your own base. I feel the compost in a mix yourself batch will lead to more living thriving microbes and healthier plants.

 

[Creeperpark]

I germinated seed directly in FFOF using the weigh method from SureFire Seed Sprouting in the propagation forum. Here's some Fox Farms Ocean Forest soil un-cut without adding anything to it. Just FFOF and pure water and nothing else. If you use poor water or keep the soil too wet you will have problems. Only pure water without any discharge and a little dry time before watering again.

 

[Creeperpark]

With any soil, the most important thing one can learn and practice is good water management.